Thread Rating:

Nareed
Nareed
Joined: Nov 11, 2009
  • Threads: 373
  • Posts: 11413
July 17th, 2012 at 3:35:38 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I never stopped to think about it. I guess I assumed that there was a verb altar that meant stop.



Bad, bad habit :)

One thing I do remember from Yiddish classes at school, is a teacher adamantly reminding everyone that just adding the phoneme "irn" to a Spanish verb did not turn it magically into Yiddish.

In Spanish very few nouns forma verb, and few nouns are identical to a related verb. For example, the verb "morir," meaning "to die" is similar to the noun "muerto," meaning "dead person/animal/man" (it depends ont he context. but if you were to take "muerto" and turn into a verb you'd end up with "muertar," which simply does not exist.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
pacomartin
pacomartin
Joined: Jan 14, 2010
  • Threads: 649
  • Posts: 7895
July 17th, 2012 at 4:08:22 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I never stopped to think about it. I guess I assumed that there was a verb altar that meant stop. That would be high right, there is such a verb, but it means to elevate.



Two things:

(1) Not every adjective has a matching verb. Alto and Alta are adjectives, but there is no verb altar that means "to elevate". There is a noun "altar" , which has the same meaning as it does in English.

(2) The subjunctive/imperative is going to be the death of you. Theoretically, if there was a verb "altar" that meant "to stop", in the positive imperative the command would be ALTA, not ALTO. So signs would say ALTA.

Although, to be fair, you don't automatically think of a Spanish word being of Germanic origin. So the word coming from "Halt" is a stretch. By far the most common Spanish word of Germanic origin is hola which comes from German hallo and is obviously a cognate with English hello.

Also keep in mind that the Visigoths conquered Spain before the Arabs did. The city of Toledo is the Visigothic capital.

Other Spanish words that are Germanic include:

guerra
balcón
bandera
bandido
bebé
blanco; blanca
bloque; bloquear
busca; buscar
chocar
club
folclore
fresco
fútbol, futbol
ganar
garaje
grabar
grupo
guía
hola
jardin
lapiz
lotería
marchar
mascota
norte
oeste
orgullo
queso
ratón
robar
rojo(a)
ropa
salón
sopa
tapa
tarjeta
toalla
trampa
trombón
vagón
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
  • Threads: 1390
  • Posts: 23442
July 17th, 2012 at 10:52:09 PM permalink
I appreciate all the help, but my head is spinning. Speaking of German words, I do know a little German, but it just isn't very useful in the U.S. so quit my pursuit of it. If I do ever get where I want to be with Spanish, I may continue with my German next. People joke about it, but I love the way German sounds. I am half German (and I think my personality is all German) and would really like to go back to Germany and have a conversation without a translator with my relatives there. Oh well. Life is just too short.

Regarding the stop sign question, the answer is the Kahnawake territory across the Saint Laurence River from Montreal. If you make a bet on Bovada, the outcome will be determined on a computer server there. I've personally toured the building and the Bovada offices nearby. There you will see stop signs in English and many more American flags than Canadian. Why? The Kahnawakes have had a bad relationship with Canada for decades and many have moved to the United States. Here is where I get fuzzy, but for whatever reason, most of them just like the U.S. better than Canada, and hang the U.S. flag, and use English, as a form of protest. Canadians, being rather passive, don't seem to really care.

Fecha: 07-18-12
Palabra: víspera


Today's SWD means eve or the day before. There is this same problem in English with the word "eve." To this day, I don't understand if "Christmas eve" is the night of December 24, or the entire 24-hour day of December 24. My interpretation is that it means just the night before Christmas. It wouldn't seem right to say "It is Christmas eve" at 8:00 AM on December 24. So, I welcome elaboration on what víspera means, and maybe it will help my English as well.

Ejemplo time.

Estas el Era la víspera de Navidad, y en todo las casa
Ninguna criatura era moviena, ni siquiera un ratón
=

Twas the night before Christmas, when all through the house
Not a creature was stirring, not even a mouse.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
pacomartin
pacomartin
Joined: Jan 14, 2010
  • Threads: 649
  • Posts: 7895
July 18th, 2012 at 12:05:03 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Estas el víspera de Navidad, y en todo las casa
Ninguna criatura era moviena, ni siquiera un ratón
=

Twas the night before Christmas, when all through the house
Not a creature was stirring, not even a mouse.



Era la víspera de Navidad, y todo en la casa era paz.
No se oía ni un ruidito, ni siquiera chillar a un ratón.


Although the above translation is not literal, you should not use "Estas" for "it was" . You should use "Era" (past imperfect of "ser").

It was the night before ..
Era la noche anterior ..

When this poem was written in 1822, the Englishman made a deliberate reference to the opening lines of a Shakespearean play written below. Without googling, can you name the play?

Quote: Shakespearian Play

BERNARDO: Who's there?
FRANCISCO: Nay, answer me: stand, and unfold yourself.
BERNARDO: Long live the king!
FRANCISCO: Bernardo?
BERNARDO: He.
FRANCISCO: You come most carefully upon your hour.
BERNARDO: 'Tis now struck twelve; get thee to bed, Francisco.
FRANCISCO: For this relief much thanks: 'tis bitter cold, And I am sick at heart.
BERNARDO: Have you had quiet guard?
FRANCISCO: Not a mouse stirring.

WongBo
WongBo
Joined: Feb 3, 2012
  • Threads: 62
  • Posts: 2126
July 18th, 2012 at 4:37:06 AM permalink
Quote: pacomartin



When this poem was written in 1822, the Englishman....



hey, wait a minute!
clement clarke moore, born 1779, elmhurst, queens, new york
first published anonymously in the Troy, New York, Sentinel on December 23, 1823...

there is some controversy that it may have been written by henry livingston,
who was born in 1748, in troy, new york
In a bet, there is a fool and a thief. - Proverb.
pacomartin
pacomartin
Joined: Jan 14, 2010
  • Threads: 649
  • Posts: 7895
July 18th, 2012 at 5:17:09 AM permalink
Quote: WongBo

hey, wait a minute!



My apologies. I thought he was English, and I didn't check. In 1807 and 1811 in America, the Family Shakespeare was published by Thomas Bowdler. For most of the 19th century nearly every child in America grew up reading that book. From Thomas's surname the eponym bowdlerize developed because Thomas and his sister expurgated the naughty bits of Shakespeare.

In any case, if you were talking to a child in 1822, he probably grew up having the FS read to him.
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
  • Threads: 1390
  • Posts: 23442
July 18th, 2012 at 10:42:25 AM permalink
If I may change the topic, I came across the word rota as a translation of "broke," as in to have no money. According to Reverso, romper has no such usage as to be out of money. Is Reverso wrong, or did the translator perhaps not understand that "broke" can mean to be out of money, and assumed it meant to be broken, as in not working.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
pacomartin
pacomartin
Joined: Jan 14, 2010
  • Threads: 649
  • Posts: 7895
July 18th, 2012 at 11:23:01 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

If I may change the topic, I came across the word rota as a translation of "broke," as in to have no money. According to Reverso, romper has no such usage as to be out of money. Is Reverso wrong, or did the translator perhaps not understand that "broke" can mean to be out of money, and assumed it meant to be broken, as in not working.



I think it is correct to say that romper, (past participle roto), and the adjective roto/rota never mean to be out of money. The translation is broke, and also torn, smashed, broken down, split, and broke as in "she broke out laughing".

In English "broke" means to "shatter, burst; injure, violate, destroy". Also ideas like "break into" and "break out" as well as "breaking in a horse" are all ancient. Even the concept of "breaking bread" is almost 700 years old. However, the English definition of "financially insolvent" is a much later meaning only added in the 18th century.
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
  • Threads: 1390
  • Posts: 23442
July 19th, 2012 at 6:12:53 AM permalink
Thanks for the help with "broke." I assume the translator didn't know it can mean "out of money" in English.

Fecha: 19-07-12
Palabra: guateque


Today's SWD means party. Every gringo already knows that fiesta also means party. What is the difference? I think that fiesta is the more common and general term. A guateque would probably be something that teenagers have, that is probably going to be a bit on the rowdy and loud side. Of course, I always welcome correction, especially when it comes to my Spanish.

The question for the advanced readers is what does the root "guat" mean? In particular, what does it mean in "Guatemala"?

Ejemplo time.

Nunca me invitó a los guateques de los chicos populares. = I never get invited to the cool kid parties.

Note that I used the ó in invitó to imply that I'm the one (not) being invited. I would have used é if I was the one doing the inviting. Of course, I'm sure I still blew it somehow.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
pacomartin
pacomartin
Joined: Jan 14, 2010
  • Threads: 649
  • Posts: 7895
July 19th, 2012 at 6:22:24 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Today's SWD means party. Every gringo already knows that fiesta also means party. What is the difference? I think that fiesta is the more common and general term. A guateque would probably be something that teenagers have.



The DRAE says the word is associated with young people, and is Caribbean in origin. I am not sure if it is a current word, or is more like "groovy".

  • Jump to: