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pacomartin
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June 25th, 2012 at 2:30:04 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

The question for the advanced readers is whether murciélago shares a common root with ciego (blind). I think I needn't say that it is a myth that bats are blind.



I liked this explanation which I got from Joy of Spanish blogspot 29 DE MARZO DE 2012-Víctor Osorio. The author incorrectly buys into the myth. Note that the author refers to vowels as vocals.

Did you know that 'murciélago' (Spanish for 'bat') used to mean 'blind mouse'? Well, it actually had that meaning.
'Murciélago', at the beginning, was the union of two Latin words, mur and caecus. Mur was Latin for mouse and caecus was Latin for blind. The first Spanish speakers combine the two words to name these little flying animals that look like mice and are, in fact, blind (bats can't see, they guide themselves through sounds).
So how did murcaecus (the union of 'mur' and 'caecus') become 'murciélago'? Well, it's quite easy. People used to make mistakes pronouncing this difficult combination of words. First, they would pronounced murciego instead of murcieco, then they would say 'murciegola' without any apparent reason to finally end up very confused, given the lenght of the word, and saying 'murciélago'. What a mess!
And that's how the word for bat in Spanish (murciélago) was born: ¡it's one of Spanish hardest words y maybe the only one to combine all of the vocals!
However, to learn this word, remember that is very similar to a word you already know 'archipelago' (in Spanish, also 'archipiélago').

I hope that I am permitted to reprint a blog with proper citation.
Wizard
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June 25th, 2012 at 5:34:45 AM permalink
That is interesting about the word containing all five vowels; I hadn't noticed that. Now that it has been confirmed about the word meaning a blind mouse, to what address do I write a letter of complaint to the Acadamia Real?

That is a little long for a quote. I'd prefer it just be a sentence or two. However, thanks for the research, as always.
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Nareed
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June 25th, 2012 at 6:29:47 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Sigo peinar mi cabello, pero el remolino no se acosta. = I keep combing my hair, but the cowlick won't lay down.



"I keep to comb my hair but the cowlick won't stalk."

"Por más que peino mi cabello, el remolino sigue parado."

"Acostar" means "to lie down," but the conjugation changes the way the verb is written. For third person it would be "acuesta." "Acosta" simply dosesn't exists, but it sounds clsoest to "acosa," which does mean "stalk" as in stalking or harassing someone.

I changed the first part becasue "sigo peinando mi cabello" indicates an ongoing action. It sounds as though you are saying you are now combing your hair. The form I used more or less means "No matter how much I comb my hair."

Oh, and I've no idea what "repeinado" means.
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Nareed
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June 25th, 2012 at 6:42:04 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

You could seem the moving about in their sleep and they would poop down below.



That's about the most dangerous thing they do.

Of course, some of them carry rabies, so it's not a good idea to get too close to them. But mostly they'll be hunting bugs and leaving the large, scary humans strictly alone. Fruit bats are unlikely to even get near you. And vampire bats (yes, they do exist), typically go for large, sleeping animals out in the opne (and are the most likely to carry rabies).

BTW bats are NOT blind. They just don't have good vision. Their natural sonar is amazing, though, and substitutes well for their poor eyesight. In experiments bats have succesfully navigated large rooms filled with criss-crossing wires, even while hunting bugs.


Quote:

Esta cueva es una casas de miles de murciélagos. = This cave is home to thousands of bats.



"This cave is one houses for thousands of bats." That's literal, word for word.

"Esta cueva es hogar de miles de murciélagos"

or

"Esta cueva alberga a miles de murciélagos." = "This cave houses thousands of bats."


The word "casa" means both house and home, but mostly house. It's used almost exclusively in reference to buildings. So a cave woulnd't qualify as a "casa." the word for "home" is "hogar," which also means, I think, a fireplace. Anyway, it's not used much. If you wanted to say "I'm homesick" you'd say "Extraño mi casa," rather than "extraño mi hogar."
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Wizard
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June 25th, 2012 at 9:40:44 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

That's about the most dangerous thing they do.



They did most of the pooping at night. When the kids set the table for breakfast after the previous dinner they always put all the dishes upside down, in case a bat pooped on them.

I hate to spoil the movie for anyone, but didn't bat poop have something to do with the outbreak in the move Contagion?

Fecha: 26-06-12
Palabra: coraje


Today's SWD means courage.

Similar words are valor y valentía, which are closer to "valor."

Ejemplo time.

Mago, el león cobarde viajó un largo camino para pedirle por coraje. = Wizard, the cowardly lion has traveled a long way to ask you for courage.
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pacomartin
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June 25th, 2012 at 9:55:05 PM permalink
Coraje is same root as coronary, as they both are related to the heart.

A third similar word is valiente. The foremost definitions seem to be:

coraje = courage
valentía = heroic deed executed with courage
valiente = brave
valor = valor (could be value)
Nareed
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June 26th, 2012 at 6:50:42 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I hate to spoil the movie for anyone, but didn't bat poop have something to do with the outbreak in the move Contagion?



No clue. But it played a major role in making explosives and fertilizers well into the XX Century.

Quote:

Today's SWD means courage.



Yes. And no.

Yes, it means courage. But no, it's not used to mean courage very often. The word for courage is "valor." A brave person is called "valiente." Using "coraje" to mean courage is regarded as quaint or outright archaic.

"Coraje" is used much more to denote anger or irritation. A common expression is "no hagas corajes," which means "don't get angry," or "don't throw a tantrum." You do NOT say "Tengo coraje con alguien," any more than you'd say "tengo enojo con alguien." Remember Spanish doens't work that way.

Quote:

Mago, el león cobarde viajó un largo camino para pedirle por coraje. = Wizard, the cowardly lion has traveled a long way to ask you for courage.



Drop the "por" near the end and you're fine.

But, I repeat, in every version of the Wizard of Oz (that copycat! :P), el León Cobarde always wanted "valor."

I've mentioned an Argentine commedy music troupe called Les Luthiers. They do use the word "coraje" for courage often, when called for. But they affect a pompous and quaint style on purpose, it's part of their act. In a scene from "El Adelantado Don Rodrigo Díaz de Carreras, etc, etc...." The narrator says something like:

¡Firme! ¡Firme ante el enemigo!
¡Con coraje, Don Rodrigo!
Y Don Rodrigo firmó la rendición.

That's a pun that can't be easily translated into English.
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Wizard
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June 26th, 2012 at 7:01:45 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

"Coraje" is used much more to denote anger or irritation.



I'm not saying your're wrong, but I checked three dictionaries and they all say that coraje primarily means courage.

SpanishDict.com, which I know you hate, says it means (1) courage, (2) rage. Same thing with Reverso and my Harper's dictionary. In the book where it was used, it was used to mean courage. I suspect the usage is different depending on which Spanish-speaking country you're in.
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Nareed
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June 26th, 2012 at 7:16:28 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I'm not saying your're wrong, but I checked three dictionaries and they all say that coraje primarily means courage.



That happens to be entirely right. But, as the old saying has it, what has that got to do with the price of beer? Dictionaries only go so far. Lots of words have meanings that are not used, or that have fallen into disuse over time.

If you see it in books, it's only because the author, or translator, is trying to sound learned by using obscure meanings. And also because a written language is not the same as a spoken language.
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pacomartin
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June 26th, 2012 at 12:20:07 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

Quote: Wizard

I'm not saying your're wrong, but I checked three dictionaries and they all say that coraje primarily means courage.



That happens to be entirely right. But, as the old saying has it, what has that got to do with the price of beer? Dictionaries only go so far. Lots of words have meanings that are not used, or that have fallen into disuse over time.

If you see it in books, it's only because the author, or translator, is trying to sound learned by using obscure meanings. And also because a written language is not the same as a spoken language.



Quote: DRAE definition

coraje (Del fr. ant. corages).
1. m. Impetuosa decisión y esfuerzo del ánimo, valor.
2. m. Irritación, ira.



Quote: Etymonline

courage c.1300, from O.Fr. corage



Clearly English "courage" and Spanish "coraje" are both descendants from the same Old French word "corage".

But the DRAE definition does indicate clearly that the meaning of the Spanish word has deviated from the meaning of the English word. The Spanish noun means an "impetuous decision", an "irritation" or a "rage".

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