Thread Rating:

Nareed
Nareed
Joined: Nov 11, 2009
  • Threads: 373
  • Posts: 11413
May 31st, 2012 at 11:42:01 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Does the Spanish tend to expand because it is a translation, or does is generally take longer to communicate something in Spanish than English?



It varies, but there are some English words that require a Spanish phrase to translate. A good rule of thumb is that terms developed in one language for one purpose, tend to translate into phrases in other languages.

But you can try a simple thing: how many of the translated books you bought in Spanish have more pages than the originals? I'm willing to bet for a smalle average difference.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
pacomartin
pacomartin
Joined: Jan 14, 2010
  • Threads: 649
  • Posts: 7895
May 31st, 2012 at 12:11:55 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Does the Spanish tend to expand because it is a translation, or does is generally take longer to communicate something in Spanish than English?



Just looking at the EU documents which are written in every language, it looks like the Spanish tends to be longer (on the order of 15%). I think they would strive to make these documents read as natural as possible in every language, so there is no bias as to original language.

In nearly every single paragraph there are more words and characters in Spanish than English.

English words characters Spanish words characters
Basic information on the European Union 6 34 Información básica sobre la Unión Europea 6 36
The EU is a unique economic and political partnership between 27 European countries that together cover much of the continent. 20 107 La UE es una asociación económica y política singular de 27 países europeos que, juntos, abarcan gran parte del continente. 20 104
It was created in the aftermath of the Second World War. The first steps were to foster economic cooperation: the idea being that countries who trade with one another become economically interdependent and so more likely to avoid conflict. 39 201 La UE se fundó después de la Segunda Guerra Mundial. Sus primeros pasos consistieron en impulsar la cooperación económica con la idea de que, a medida que aumenta la interdependencia económica de los países que comercian entre sí, disminuyen las posibilidades de conflicto entre ellos. 45 241
Since then, the EU has developed into a huge single market with the euro as its common currency. What began as a purely economic union has evolved into an organisation spanning all policy areas, from development aid to environment. 39 193 Con el transcurrir del tiempo, la UE se ha convertido en un enorme mercado único con una moneda común: el euro. Y lo que comenzó como una unión meramente económica ha evolucionado hasta llegar a ser una organización activa en todos los frentes políticos, desde la ayuda al desarrollo hasta el medio ambiente. 53 256
It has delivered half a century of peace, stability, and prosperity, helped raise living standards, and launched a single European currency. Thanks to the abolition of border controls between EU countries, people can travel freely throughout most of the continent. And it's also become much easier to live and work abroad in Europe. 53 280 Ha generado paz, estabilidad y prosperidad durante medio siglo, ha contribuido a elevar el nivel de vida y ha creado una moneda única europea. Gracias a la supresión de los controles fronterizos entre los países de la UE, ahora se puede viajar libremente por la mayor parte del continente. Y también es mucho más fácil vivir y trabajar en el extranjero dentro de Europa. 64 307
The EU is based on the rule of law. This means that everything that it does is founded on treaties, voluntarily and democratically agreed by all member countries. These binding agreements set out the EU's goals in its many areas of activity. 42 200 La UE se apoya en el Estado de Derecho. Esto significa que todas sus actividades se basan en los tratados, acordados voluntaria y democráticamente por todos los Estados miembros. Estos acuerdos vinculantes establecen los objetivos de la UE en sus numerosos ámbitos de actividad. 44 235
One of its main goals is to promote human rights both internally and around the world. Human dignity, freedom, democracy, equality, the rule of law and respect for human rights: these are the core values of the EU. Since the 2009 signing of the Treaty of Lisbon, the EU's Charter of Fundamental Rights brings all these rights together in a single document. The EU's institutions are legally bound to uphold them, as are EU governments whenever they apply EU law. 80 383 Uno de los principales objetivos de la UE es promover los derechos humanos en su interior y en todo el mundo. Dignidad humana, libertad, democracia, igualdad, Estado de Derecho y respeto de los derechos humanos son sus valores fundamentales. Desde la firma del Tratado de Lisboa en 2009, la Carta de los Derechos Fundamentales de la UE reúne todos estos derechos en un único documento. Las instituciones de la UE están jurídicamente obligadas a defenderlos, al igual que los gobiernos nacionales cuando aplican la legislación de la UE. 88 448
The single market is the EU's main economic engine, enabling most goods, services, money and people to move freely. Another key objective is to develop this huge resource to ensure that Europeans can draw the maximum benefit. 37 189 El mercado único es el principal motor económico de la UE y hace que la mayoría de las mercancías, servicios, personas y capital puedan circular libremente. Otro de sus objetivos esenciales es desarrollar este enorme recurso para que los europeos puedan aprovecharlo al máximo. 44 234
As it continues to grow, the EU remains focused on making its governing institutions more transparent and democratic. More powers are being given to the directly elected European Parliament, while national parliaments are being given a greater role, working alongside the European institutions. In turn, European citizens have an ever-increasing number of channels for taking part in the political process. 60 347 Y mientras sigue creciendo, la UE continúa esforzándose por aumentar la transparencia de las instituciones que la gobiernan y hacerlas más democráticas. Así, el Parlamento Europeo, elegido directamente por los ciudadanos, aumenta sus competencias y los parlamentos nacionales adquieren más protagonismo al trabajar mano a mano con las instituciones europeas. Los ciudadanos europeos, a su vez, cuentan cada vez con más canales para participar en el proceso político. 68 399


EDIT

Even as I write this table, I have my doubts.

The English phrase "Since then" is written in Spanish as "Con el transcurrir del tiempo" (with the passage of time). It is possible this page was written in English first, and then translated to the other languages using more convoluted language in Spanish.

The phrase "Desde entonces" would be simpler.
pacomartin
pacomartin
Joined: Jan 14, 2010
  • Threads: 649
  • Posts: 7895
May 31st, 2012 at 12:35:30 PM permalink
Just as a side note, a lot of the "training" done by Google Translate is done using the European Union documents. It is interesting to see how Google Translate does with a paragraph.

EU document in English EU document in Polish Google Translate back to English
Since then, the EU has developed into a huge single market with the euro as its common currency.

What began as a purely economic union has evolved into an organisation spanning all policy areas, from development aid to environment.
Od tego czasu rozwój UE doprowadził do powstania ogromnego jednolitego rynku z euro jako wspólną walutą.

Organizacja, która na początku była wyłącznie unią gospodarczą, stopniowo zaczęła obejmować wszystkie obszary polityki, od pomocy rozwojowej po ochronę środowiska.
Since then, the development of the EU led to a huge single market of the euro as their common currency. 

The organization, which was only the beginning of an economic union, gradually began to include all policy areas, from development aid to the environment.
Nareed
Nareed
Joined: Nov 11, 2009
  • Threads: 373
  • Posts: 11413
May 31st, 2012 at 1:03:32 PM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

Just as a side note, a lot of the "training" done by Google Translate is done using the European Union documents. It is interesting to see how Google Translate does with a paragraph.



Do children play "broken telephone" (teléfono descompuesto) in the US? It's a simple game. You take a bunch of kids, about half a dozen to 15 or so, and whisper a simple story or a paragraph to the first child. She then whsipers the story to the second one, and so on till the end. The last child tells the story aloud. By then it may have a bit less than a passing ressemblance to the original. Usally the kids laugh very loudly.

It seems Google Translate is close to amstering one-player broken phone ;)
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
NowTheSerpent
NowTheSerpent
Joined: Sep 30, 2011
  • Threads: 15
  • Posts: 417
May 31st, 2012 at 1:48:24 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Fecha: 31-05-12
Palabra: Rompecabezas


Something that puzzles me is that Rompecabezas is the word for a single puzzle. Kind of like dios is the word for one god. Would the word for multiple puzzles be Rompecabezases?



The plural is just rompecabezas.

Incidentally, the s in Dios comes from the Latin nominative singular form, Deus. That's unusual, as the normal procedure is to adopt the accusative form in -um, -am, or -em when singular (as -o, -a, or -e) or -os, -as, or -es when plural. But because the collapsed Roman empire was dominated by the Christian philosophical view of God as the "I am", an absolute singular of identity, the use of the subject form became standard. Cp. French Dieu and Italian Dio. The Spanish plural, when referring to extra-Biblical deities, would be dioses, "gods", or diosas, "goddesses".

This conundrum is an enigma wrapped in a riddle shrouded in unsolvable mystery. :)
NowTheSerpent
NowTheSerpent
Joined: Sep 30, 2011
  • Threads: 15
  • Posts: 417
May 31st, 2012 at 1:56:02 PM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

Just as a side note, a lot of the "training" done by Google Translate is done using the European Union documents. It is interesting to see how Google Translate does with a paragraph.

EU document in English EU document in Polish Google Translate back to English
Since then, the EU has developed into a huge single market with the euro as its common currency.

What began as a purely economic union has evolved into an organisation spanning all policy areas, from development aid to environment.
Od tego czasu rozwój UE doprowadzi³ do powstania ogromnego jednolitego rynku z euro jako wspóln¹ walut¹.

Organizacja, która na pocz¹tku by³a wy³¹cznie uni¹ gospodarcz¹, stopniowo zaczê³a obejmowaæ wszystkie obszary polityki, od pomocy rozwojowej po ochronê środowiska.
Since then, the development of the EU led to a huge single market of the euro as their common currency. 

The organization, which was only the beginning of an economic union, gradually began to include all policy areas, from development aid to the environment.



It looks like the phrase "która na pocz¹tku by³a wy³¹cznie uni¹ gospodarcz¹" which properly reads, " which in the beginning was merely an economic union" got distorted.
NowTheSerpent
NowTheSerpent
Joined: Sep 30, 2011
  • Threads: 15
  • Posts: 417
May 31st, 2012 at 1:59:28 PM permalink
Quote: NowTheSerpent

It looks like the phrase "która na pocz¹tku by³a wy³¹cznie uni¹ gospodarcz¹" which properly reads, " which in the beginning was merely an economic union" got distorted.



But not as badly as I distorted it trying to copy it in HTML. LMFAO!
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard 
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
  • Threads: 1390
  • Posts: 23419
May 31st, 2012 at 10:49:03 PM permalink
I would like to point out that the above post is the 3000th post in this thread. Thanks to all who have contributed. Nareed and Paco have certainly been around since the beginning, and deserve lots of credit, but I welcome the new blood too. The more the merrier.

Fecha: 01-06-12
Palabra: constar


There is not a direct equivalent in English, but today's SWD means to be sure/apparent/obvious about something.

I think that the conjugation of constar may behave like gustar in some cases. Here is how I came across the word, Me consta que ..., which I believe translates to "It is obvious to me that..." However, why it isn't consto, I don't know.

Ejemplo time.

Consta que el Profesor Ciruela lo hizo en el vestíbulo con la cuerda. = It is obvious that Professor Plum did it in the hall with the rope.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
NowTheSerpent
NowTheSerpent
Joined: Sep 30, 2011
  • Threads: 15
  • Posts: 417
June 1st, 2012 at 6:25:44 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Consta que el Profesor Ciruela lo hizo en el vestíbulo con la cuerda, "It is obvious that Professor Plum did it in the hall with the rope."



ciruela refers to any "plum" as a common noun. But shouldn't "Plum" as a surname (even fictional) from a foreign language be unchanged?

El Profesor Plum?
NowTheSerpent
NowTheSerpent
Joined: Sep 30, 2011
  • Threads: 15
  • Posts: 417
June 1st, 2012 at 6:39:20 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

Whats' the plural for "analysis"?



It's "analyses".

  • Jump to: