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Wizard
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Wizard
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May 14th, 2012 at 4:48:08 PM permalink
Fecha: 12 de Mayo, 2012
Palabra: azar


Today's SWD means "random." I discovered it when writing a new page on the game of Hazard. According to Wikipedia, Hazard likely got its name from the Spanish word azar. The french added the suffix "ard," which I understand they like to do for adjectives. I imagine the English then added the H, because it sounded better.

The question for the advanced readers is how does azar differ from aleatorio?

Ejemplo time.

Vamos lanzar una moneda para debemos decidir al azar. = Let's toss a coin to let chance decide.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
pacomartin
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May 14th, 2012 at 5:02:41 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Fecha: 12 de Mayo, 2012
Palabra: azar


Today's SWD means "random." I discovered it when writing a new page on the game of Hazard. According to Wikipedia, Hazard likely got its name from the Spanish word azar. The french added the suffix "ard," which I understand they like to do for adjectives. I imagine the English then added the H, because it sounded better.

The question for the advanced readers is how does azar differ from aleatorio?

Ejemplo time.

Vamos lanzar una moneda para debemos decidir al azar. = Let's toss a coin to let chance decide.



aleatorio or aleatory in English is Latin based while "azar" is from Arabic.

"juego de azar" == "game of chance"

I think in your sentence you would be more likely to use "la suerte" first and "aleatorio" second, but a native speaker will have to confirm.

But, judging from the DRAE definitions, "azar" is more specifically concerned with "bad luck", or the mechanics of the games of chance.

aleatorio
1. adj. Perteneciente o relativo al juego de azar
2. adj. Dependiente de algún suceso fortuito

azar
1. m. Casualidad, caso fortuito.
2. m. Desgracia imprevista.
3. m. En los juegos de naipes o dados, carta o dado que tiene el punto con que se pierde.
4. m. En el juego de trucos o billar, cualquiera de los dos lados de la tronera que miran a la mesa.
5. m. En el juego de pelota, esquina, puerta, ventana u otro estorbo.
Wizard
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May 17th, 2012 at 2:32:34 PM permalink
I saw my tutor today. First of all, Gavin McLoud is still there. Second, I noticed my tutor often pronounced the "v" the same way in Spanish and English. For example, I specifically wrote down that she said ve, vainilla, and vinagre using the English "v" sound, as opposed to the "b" sound.

I told her that I always thought that the "v" is Spanish is pronounced with what sounds like a "b" in English. My tutor said that for some words it is optional, and you can safely and correctly use either pronunciation. I've never heard this before. One good thing about Spanish is the rules of pronunciation are pretty firm, so this threw me for a loop. Watching Spanish movies I've never specifically looked for this, but it seems I never hear the English "v" sound.

What do the advanced readers say?
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
pacomartin
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May 17th, 2012 at 3:18:08 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I told her that I always thought that the "v" is Spanish is pronounced with what sounds like a "b" in English. My tutor said that for some words it is optional, and you can safely and correctly use either pronunciation.



I've seen this over and over. In Spanish there is no difference between the pronunciation of the letters "b" and "v". HOWEVER, there are two possible pronunciations of the consonants. One of them sounds closer to the English 'b'. However, the choice of letter in the spelling is not an indicator of which pronunciation to use.

  • At the beginning of a word and after "m" or "n", the hard Spanish "b/v" closely resembles the "b" in the word "boy," except that the lips are held tense.
  • In other situations, the "b/v" is pronounced like an English "b" in which the lips are not allowed to touch. (This is a sound that does not exist in English.)

    Using the International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA)

    letter b = 'β' between vowels, 'b' elsewhere
    letter v = 'β' between vowels, 'b' elsewhere

    b bestia; embuste; vaca; envidia - English approximation:best
    β bebé; obtuso; vivir; curva - English approximation: between baby and bevy

    If you look at the chart for IPA for English you see that 'β' is not there.

    I think your tutor was trying to describe the second pronunciation , but she was not very accurate in how she described it.
Nareed
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May 19th, 2012 at 8:43:41 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I told her that I always thought that the "v" is Spanish is pronounced with what sounds like a "b" in English. My tutor said that for some words it is optional, and you can safely and correctly use either pronunciation. I've never heard this before. One good thing about Spanish is the rules of pronunciation are pretty firm, so this threw me for a loop.



Some of it is regional, In Mexico people pronounce "v" and "b" in exactly the same way. I think "v" is supposed to be pronounced with a sound that's between a "b" and an "f," but none of my many Spanish teachers ever gave a straight answer on that one. A literature teacher claimed the proper pronunciation for "v" was equivalent to the English "th," but this is manifestly not so.

In elementary school, the "b" was often called "be labial" and the "v" "ve labio-dental." Meaning the first is pronounced with the lips, and the second with the lips and teeth, whatever that means.
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Nareed
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May 19th, 2012 at 8:57:41 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

The question for the advanced readers is how does azar differ from aleatorio?



Subtly.

"Azar" used by itself means "at random." While "aleatorio" means "random."

Of course it's not that simple. You can use "aleatorio" to mean "at ranom." For example "Los números son escogidos aleatoriamente" = "The numbers are picked at random," though the more correct translation would be "the numbers are picked randomly."

You can also say "los números son elegidos al azar" = "the numberrs are picked at random."

BTW all gambling games are known as "juegos de azar," this includes lotteries as well. But the description is not limited to gambling. Backgammon or Monopoly, or example, can be classified as "juegos de azar," as there is an important random element in each.


Quote:

Vamos lanzar una moneda para debemos decidir al azar. = Let's toss a coin to let chance decide.



"Vamos A lanzar una moneda para decidir al azar."

This actually means "We'll toss a coin to choose at random." If you want to say "to let chance decide," well, I'm still tired fromt he trip and have to give it some thought. Sorry.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
Nareed
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May 19th, 2012 at 9:04:32 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Encontré este placa de coche a una subasta de Ebay. = I found this license plate on an Ebay auction.



"Encontré estA placa EN una subasta de eBay."

I'm omitting specifying "de coche" because in most situations "placa" means "license plate." In your case, it can't possibly mean anything else :)
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
Wizard
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May 19th, 2012 at 9:08:59 AM permalink
Nice to see Nareed back on the thread. I hope you enjoyed your Vegas vacation and are safely back in the Estados Unidos de México. I'd be interested in anything you learned on the language front, either English or Spanish, while you were here.

Thanks for the comments on the b and v. My tutor admitted that she has been in the U.S. for a long time and that maybe her English and Spanish are influencing each other.

So, I think we're ready to get back into the swing of things with the SWD.

Fecha: 19-05-12
Palabra: Apoderar


Today's SWD means authorize or empower. We see a poder in the middle of it, which means to be able. So, perhaps we can think of apoderar means to make someone able to do things. I empower the advanced readers to confirm or deny that.

In the reflexive, apoderarse means to take possession of. Maybe we can think of that as empowering somebody to take something that may not belong to him/her.

Ejemplo time.

Me voy apoderé a tomar esto foto de Gavin MacLeod. = I'm going to empower myself to take that picture of Gavin McLoud.

It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
pacomartin
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May 19th, 2012 at 7:28:58 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

My tutor admitted that she has been in the U.S. for a long time and that maybe her English and Spanish are influencing each other.



The language to describe a sound is very technical. But the two different sounds are not associated with one letter or the other, and there is nothing optional. Most people simply resort to describing a sound in one language by trying to relate it to the sound in another.


    bebé; obtuso; vivir; curva
    The "voiced bilabial fricative" is described as follows
  • Its manner of articulation is fricative, which means it is produced by constricting air flow through a narrow channel at the place of articulation, causing turbulence.

    bestia; embuste; vaca; envidia
    The "voiced bilabial plosive" is commonly described as being like the English "b"
  • Its manner of articulation is stop, or plosive, which means it is produced by obstructing airflow in the vocal tract.
    (The term plosive contrasts with nasal stops, where the blocked airflow is redirected through the nose.)


    The following items apply to both sounds:
  • Its place of articulation is bilabial, which means it is articulated with both lips.
  • Its phonation is voiced, which means the vocal cords vibrate during the articulation.
  • It is an oral consonant, which means air is allowed to escape through the mouth only.
  • The sound is not produced with airflow over the tongue
  • The airstream mechanism is pulmonic, which means it is articulated by pushing air solely with the lungs and diaphragm, as in most sounds.
Nareed
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May 19th, 2012 at 7:53:22 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Nice to see Nareed back on the thread.



Thank you.

Quote:

I hope you enjoyed your Vegas vacation and are safely back in the Estados Unidos de México.



It was the best time of my life, literally (no apologies to Ms Gale). But it's "Estados Unidos Mexicanos." Not that anyone bothers with the term. It's the official name, yes, but even some official documents say México.

Quote:

I'd be interested in anything you learned on the language front, either English or Spanish, while you were here.



Nothing, really. My English is as good as it's going to be, though I sometimes still stumble when articulating words (which you got to see). I don't know if this counts, but Vegas seems on the way to becoming a bilingual town. all the signs on every bus I rode was in English and Spanish, and many of the recorded announcements were as well; though not those saying "Approaching Bonneville Transit Center. Transfer point for several routes."


Anyway:

Quote:

Palabra: Apoderar

Today's SWD means authorize or empower. We see a poder in the middle of it, which means to be able. So, perhaps we can think of apoderar means to make someone able to do things. I empower the advanced readers to confirm or deny that.



Not exactly. In business it is common to grant people permission to carry out certain transactions or deals on behalf of a third party. In Mexico this can be accomplished, officially and legally, in a variety of ways. For simple things, like say collecting a package from a UPS office, this is done by writing out a letter called "carta poder," specifying that Juan Perez can receive a package addressed to Jose Lopez, for example.

For more complicated things, like setting up bank accounts, entering into contracts, presenting proposals to the government and so on, you need to get a notary public to write out what's called a "poder notarial." The person who receives such powers is known as "apoderado legal," but also as "representante legal."

In that sense, it may mean "to empower." But not in the sense the word "empower" is used in English these days.

So, yes, when you grant someone a legal power to represent you, or your company, in an official capacity, you you make her able to do certain things.

Quote:

In the reflexive, apoderarse means to take possession of. Maybe we can think of that as empowering somebody to take something that may not belong to him/her.



This is the more common usage. When a country takes land from another through war, the expression may be "Francia se apoderó de Austria," for example.

Quote:

Me voy apoderé a tomar esto foto de Gavin MacLeod. = I'm going to empower myself to take that picture of Gavin McLoud.



"Me voy A apoderar de estA foto de Gavin MacLeod"

"Me voy" means "I'm going to," so it's already future tense and there's no need to use the future tense of the verb "apoderar." But the meaning of the phrase I used above was "I'm going to take possesion of that picture of Gavin MacLeod."

BTW, is it MacLeod or McLoud?
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal

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