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pacomartin
pacomartin
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April 24th, 2012 at 9:34:36 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

Good. Just remind me of it then.



Wizard, it might help before your tutoring session to look at these websites.

English modal verbs
Spanish verbs similar to modal verbs

Technically, Spanish doesn't have modal verbs, as mood is conveyed with verb conjugations (conditional, subjunctive, and imperitive).
Wizard
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Wizard
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April 24th, 2012 at 9:45:34 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

I think I see where you're going. A verb such as "to like" applied directly to many things comes out different than if it's appied to another verb, such as "to eat," regardless of the number of things invovled.



Yes, at least we have pinpointed where my confusion stems from. So connecting another verb to deber, and I would assume poder, changes the subject to the person (he/they) and not the thing (egg/eggs). This, of course, leads me to ask ¿por qué?

Paco, thanks for the suggestion. I will try to get to that, but can't promise. Learning Spanish takes a pretty low priority with me, actually. I view it more as a recreational activity, and going through boring grammar texts will ruin it for me.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Nareed
Nareed
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April 24th, 2012 at 10:44:44 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

This, of course, leads me to ask ¿por qué?



Get used to this prhase: ¡Porque sí! :)

Roughly it translates as "because!"
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
pacomartin
pacomartin
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April 24th, 2012 at 11:40:28 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

I think I see where you're going. A verb such as "to like" applied directly to many things comes out different than if it's appied to another verb, such as "to eat," regardless of the number of things invovled.

I'm feeling the spirit of Captian Obvious... ;)



Although we normally translate gustar as "to like" we are just mimicking the preferred English structure. It really should be translated as "to be pleasing (to)" and is used in the 3rd person. The subject of the sentence is the milk / cookies/ eggs/sport/ etc.

In English those things are the "object" of the sentence (where I am using "object" in the grammatical sense).


The translation of "to hate" in the dictionary is (1)odiar, (2)aborrecer, (3)detestar

But we have cognates in English for all those words (1) odor (noun only) , (2) to abhor (verb), (3) to detest (verb)

We can't really use odor as a verb, But we have "odorous" and "malodorous" as seldom used adjectives.

But the reversal of the subject and object isn't consistent when you are using "odiar" as far as I know. I don't know why they are not consistent.

I am also unclear how often "odiar' is used, as opposed to "no le gusta".
Nareed
Nareed
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April 24th, 2012 at 1:24:05 PM permalink
As usual, I feel half lost reading your post. let's see:

Quote: pacomartin

Although we normally translate gustar as "to like" we are just mimicking the preferred English structure. It really should be translated as "to be pleasing (to)" and is used in the 3rd person. The subject of the sentence is the milk / cookies/ eggs/sport/ etc.



No, the correct translation is "to like." A eprson lieks eggs, for example. The eggs are not being pleasing to him.

Quote:

The translation of "to hate" in the dictionary is (1)odiar, (2)aborrecer, (3)detestar

But we have cognates in English for all those words (1) odor (noun only) , (2) to abhor (verb), (3) to detest (verb)

We can't really use odor as a verb, But we have "odorous" and "malodorous" as seldom used adjectives.



"Odiar," has no relation to "odor." None. The word for "odor" in Spanish is "olor." A pleasing odor can be called "aroma," and an unpleasant one "hedor." But "odiar," means "to hate."

Quote:

I am also unclear how often "odiar' is used, as opposed to "no le gusta".



If you say "odio los huevos," you're purposefully exaggerating your dislike for eggs. I define hate as a very deep, passionate dislike of something or someone, usually some person or a group of people. It's a very serious term that shoulnd't be used lightly. You use hate, as directed to someone or something, when their very existence arouses your anger.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
pacomartin
pacomartin
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April 24th, 2012 at 5:05:12 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

No, the correct translation is "to like." A eprson lieks eggs, for example. The eggs are not being pleasing to him.

"Odiar," has no relation to "odor." None. The word for "odor" in Spanish is "olor." A pleasing odor can be called "aroma," and an unpleasant one "hedor." But "odiar," means "to hate."



My apologies.

I was unclear on the first point. Syntactically, the order of the subject-verb-object construct would be "The eggs are pleasing to him". I know you wouldn't actually put that in a translation, but that is what you are saying grammatically. That why the subject of the sentence is "eggs" whereas the subject of the sentence is "I" in English.

I screwed up here, and misread something in the Latin. You are absolutely correct, "odor" is not a cognate of "odiar". "Odor" is a cognate of "olor".
Wizard
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Wizard
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April 25th, 2012 at 3:35:02 AM permalink
When I first saw a sentence like Me gusta los huevos I thought it was saying "the eggs like me." My tutor said the same thing Paco did, that for purposes of sentence construction gustar means "is pleasing to." However, in English people say "like" about 100 as often as "pleasing" so "I like eggs" makes for a translation that is conveys the same message and is how people usually talk.

Fecha: 25-04-12
Palabra: jugarreta


Today's SWD means "dirty trick." A clean trick, like a magic trick, would be a truco. The base word is jugar, which we all know means the verb play.

The question for the advanced readers is what does the "eta" suffix mean in Spanish? Somehow I think I may have asked this before. Too bad there are not dictionaries sorted from the end of the word to help answer such questions.

Ejemplo time.

Perdí la elección porque fue la víctima del comité de las jugarretas. = I lost the election because I was the victim of the dirty-trick committee.

Trivia time.

Who am I referring to with the above example?
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
pacomartin
pacomartin
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April 25th, 2012 at 4:02:45 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

The question for the advanced readers is what does the "eta" suffix mean in Spanish? Somehow I think I may have asked this before. Too bad there are not dictionaries sorted from the end of the word to help answer such questions.



Wiktionary does suffixes but in all the languages at once.

Suffixes -eta (female) and -ete (male) are both diminutives in Spanish (along with many other suffixes). This suffix is borrowed from French. So literally the word means "little play".
aluisio
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April 25th, 2012 at 6:45:47 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard



Ejemplo time.

Perdí la elección porque fue la víctima del comité de las jugarretas. = I lost the election because I was the victim of the dirty-trick committee.



Wow, I have no clue about this trivia. But I will give a hand about spanish, as paco said this sufix is used to identify the diminutive in sentences, but not the regular diminutive as with the sufixes ito and ita. Its use is more common in a context of afection, where the agent of the narration has direct touch with the story. Sometimes it's not very easy to realize the difference.
Regarding the construction of your phrase, Mike, I would let the article "las"out of the sentence, formulating the phrase like this:

Perdí la elección porque fue la víctima del Comité de Jugarretas - mainly because it's a given comité, not any comité.
No bounce, no play.
Nareed
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April 25th, 2012 at 6:53:08 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

When I first saw a sentence like Me gusta los huevos I thought it was saying "the eggs like me." My tutor said the same thing Paco did, that for purposes of sentence construction gustar means "is pleasing to."



I just don't see it like that. I mean it as a native speaker. If I wanted to say the eggs are pleasing to me, I'd say "los huevos me son agradables," or "... me son palcenteros." I would not say "me gustan los huevos."

Quote:

However, in English people say "like" about 100 as often as "pleasing" so "I like eggs" makes for a translation that is conveys the same message and is how people usually talk.



Well, the egg debacle aside, that is how a trasnaltion is supposed to be done.

Quote:

Today's SWD means "dirty trick." A clean trick, like a magic trick, would be a truco.



Yes, but a dirty trick can be called "un truco sucio" as well.

Quote:

Perdí la elección porque fue la víctima del comité de las jugarretas. = I lost the election because I was the victim of the dirty-trick committee.



"..porque fuÍ victima...."

Techincally you're correct in the rest, but in this case I would go with "el comité de trucos sucios." It sounds more serious, more adult, to say it that way.

Quote:

Trivia time.

Who am I referring to with the above example?



The Brain, when he ran with Admiral Pinky as runing mate?

No, wait. He just looked like The Brain ;)

I won't spoil the answer, but I will give an important hint: "H."
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal

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