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pacomartin
pacomartin
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April 9th, 2012 at 7:22:05 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Related question -- it is a figure of speech here to say "I bet..." and then something you feel is likely, but not certain, to happen.



The word bet is about 400 years old in English. It is of unknown origin as it first showed up in the slang of petty criminals. It may be an abbreviation of the word abet which we use more as a legal term, aiding and abetting is a common charge for helping someone commit a crime.

The idiomatic use, you bet is about 150 years old, and more or less means you can wager on a positive outcome.
Nareed
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April 9th, 2012 at 8:05:50 PM permalink
Whoops! I forgot one.

The expression "you bet," as in answering "You bet I will," does not exist in Spanish.

You can come close. Here's an example:

P: ¿Seguro the vas de viaje?
R: Te apuesto que sí.

Q: Are your sure you're going on a trip?
A: I bet you I will.

So there's that difference.
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Wizard
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April 10th, 2012 at 5:19:56 AM permalink
Fecha: 10 de April, 2012
Palabra: Navaja


I had to buy some things at Lowe's yesterday, including the glass panels for a welder's mask in preparation for the May 20 annular (corrected) eclipse (which I see Nareed will miss by three days). While there I noticed a pocket knife, which I decided to get as well. The package had wording in both English and Spanish. The Spanish referred to the knife as a navaja.

The cashier was a delightful woman from Columbia. So I asked her what the difference was between a navaja and a cuchillo. She said that a navaja was for killing things and a cuchillo was for eating. There was nobody in line behind me so we had a nice chat in Español. I asked if she did Spanish lessons, but she said "no." I gave her my card and told her to call me if she changed her mind. No call yet, lamentablemente.

However, as I was driving home I wondered about other kinds of knives. It turns out that I think her explanation was not quite right. According to Reverso, a navaja is a folding knife (such as I bought), a pen knife, or a razor. It seems that cuchillo is more of a general term. Here are some specific kinds of cuchillos:

♦ cuchillo de carne = steak knife
♦ cuchillo de caza = hunting knife
♦ cuchillo de cocina = kitchen knife
♦ cuchillo del pan = breadknife
♦ cuchillo de trinchar = carving knife

Here are some related words:

navaja de muelle or de resorte = Switchblade
hoja = blade + lots of other usages

Ejemplo time.

Me odié las baratas navajas de la ejército de Suiza cuando las hojas son muy difícil a sacar. = I hate cheap Swiss Army knives when it is difficult to open the blades.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
pacomartin
pacomartin
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April 10th, 2012 at 6:18:32 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

The cashier was a delightful woman from Columbia. So I asked her what the difference was between a navaja and a cuchillo. She said that a navaja was for killing things and a cuchillo was for eating.



The Latin words are:
cultellus: small knife, dagger
novācula: sharp knife, dagger, razor

From the examples the operative adjective is "sharp" which may or may not imply a weapon.



a swtichbloade is a navaja, and not a cuchillo
"navaja barbera" is specifically a razor
colloquially the word "navaja" is also a gossiper and a slanderer (who stabs you in the back)
"navaja" can also mean tusk or the sharp sting of insects.
Nareed
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April 10th, 2012 at 6:50:03 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I had to buy some things at Lowe's yesterday, including the glass panels for a welder's mask in preparation for the May 20 annual eclipse (which I see Nareed will miss by three days).



I try not to make fun of, nor call attention to, other people's typos and mispellings because I commit many of my own. But this one is just too good to pass up. So I will say I'm sorry in advance and go: An annual eclipse would be the ultimate Vegas tourist attraction! :)

Ok. moving on.

Quote:

So I asked her what the difference was between a navaja and a cuchillo. She said that a navaja was for killing things and a cuchillo was for eating.



I'd have told you "navaja" is blade and "cuchillo" is knife. And we would both have been wrong.

Cuchillo is knife. Navaja, though, according to the dictionary, is a cuchillo with a blade that can be folded or otherwise stored into the handle. this makes perfect sense.

Now it gets complicated. The word for blade would be either "hoja" (which also means leaf, page and a sheet of paper), or cuchilla.

I'll take questions after the class :)

Quote:

Ejemplo time.

Me odié las baratas navajas de la ejército de Suiza cuando las hojas son muy difícil a sacar. = I hate cheap Swiss Army knives when it is difficult to open the blades.



That should run you 200 pushups ;)

"Odio las navajas Suizas baratas cuando las hojas son dificiles de sacar."

I will overlook the use of "ejército de Suiza" because 1) it's correct, 2) you have no way of knowing "Swiss Army Knife" doesn't translate as "Navaja del Ejército Suizo (o de Suiza)" but as "Navaja Suiza," and 3) You correctly used a country's name in another language; that is often difficult to do.

You also did well in saying "sacar" ratehr than "abrir" when speaking of opening the blades.

Bonus points, what is the brand name of the authentic navajas Suizas?
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Doc
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April 10th, 2012 at 6:58:37 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

Bonus points, what is the brand name of the authentic navajas Suizas?


How should one say "Victorinox" in Spanish?
Nareed
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April 10th, 2012 at 7:05:45 AM permalink
Quote: Doc

How should one say "Victorinox" in Spanish?



Brand names should not be translated.

But there is another manufacturer who claims to make the real Swiss Army Knife. The logos are so similar, for a long time I didn't even realize they were two.
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Wizard
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April 10th, 2012 at 7:32:49 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

That should run you 200 pushups ;)



That seems rather harsh. Formal protest.

Quote: Nareed

"Odio las navajas Suizas baratas cuando las hojas son dificiles de sacar."



Why would you say "Me gusta" but not "Me odio"?

Quote: Nareed

you have no way of knowing "Swiss Army Knife" doesn't translate as "Navaja del Ejército Suizo (o de Suiza)" but as "Navaja Suiza,"



What happened to the ejército? That is what the Swiss Army is famous for.

Quote: Nareed

You also did well in saying "sacar" ratehr than "abrir" when speaking of opening the blades.



I considered various other words. However, I think of sacar as meaning "to extract," and know it gets used a lot, so thought that was my best bet.

Quote: Nareed

Bonus points, what is the brand name of the authentic navajas Suizas?



I see Doc beat me to it. However, I think there are two brands. The Victorinox seems to be the most known. There is also the Wenger, which I prefer. The blades of the Victorninox are harder to extract, which as you know from my ejemplo, bothers me.


Source: Wikipedia.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Nareed
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April 10th, 2012 at 7:46:16 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

That seems rather harsh. Formal protest.



Talk to the smiley :)

Quote:

Why would you say "Me gusta" but not "Me odio"?



Good question. (BTW "good question" is what I say when I don't have a good answer, which I shall proceed to prove:) I'm not sure. I am sure this is where my grammar limitations leave me. So I'll give you an alternative. You could say "Me molesta cuando las hojas son dificles de sacar." Sorry, I just can't explain it. Maybe Paco can help.

Quote:

What happened to the ejército? That is what the Swiss Army is famous for.



Well, until I began to learn English, I had no idea they were called "Swiss Army Knives." In Mexico, maybe in Spanish in general, they're not known as being related to the Swiss Army, just to Switzerland.

BTW in Mexico Enchiladas Suizas are enchiladas with lots of cheese and a mild or bland sauce (with little or no chiles).

Quote:

I considered various other words. However, I think of sacar as meaning "to extract," and know it gets used a lot, so thought that was my best bet.



That amkes it even better. Let's take off 100 pushups ;)

Quote:

I see Doc beat me to it. However, I think there are two brands. The Victorinox seems to be the most known. There is also the Wenger, which I prefer. The blades of the Victorninox are harder to extract, which as you know from my ejemplo, bothers me.



Adn we have the two brands.
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pacomartin
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April 10th, 2012 at 7:48:57 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Why would you say "Me gusta" but not "Me odio"?



While gustar has a transitive definition in the dictionary, it is used overwhelmingly as an intransitive verb. The sthng is pleasing to me.

The word odio is a noun, but it can also be the first person present indicative of odiar which is a transitive verb only meaning "tener odio".

Although you might think that logically, they verbs are similar in usage, "odiar" can only be used transitively.

One grammerian refers to "gustar, fascinar, and encantar" as inverse verbs. They are used inversely to the way they are used in other languages like English. The verb odiar is not inverse. The reason why some verbs ended up as inverse verbs, and others did not is pretty complex. It seems there was some changes to the Spanish language in the 17th century.

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