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Nareed
Nareed
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April 5th, 2012 at 9:54:11 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

This still bothers me. Why would Dorothy go off on a quest to get the witch's broom for just a magician?



What bothers me about fantasy is a lot more than that :)

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This the kind of thing that will keep me up at night.



If it makes you feel any better, or helps you sleep easier, it was a while before I realized that "mago" and "wizard" were not the same thing.

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I never got into Harry Potter, but he actually did have supernatural powers, didn't he?



Beats me.

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I have a feeling that if I ever do become bilingual I'm going to be tortured whenever I see bad translations.



Good, we'll have something to do then :)
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Wizard
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April 6th, 2012 at 6:30:24 AM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

It's not clear from the definition below if the Spanish concept retains the more supernatural portions of the definition



Here is how Webster's defines "magic":

Definition of MAGIC

1
a : the use of means (as charms or spells) believed to have supernatural power over natural forces
b : magic rites or incantations
2
a : an extraordinary power or influence seemingly from a supernatural source
b : something that seems to cast a spell : enchantment
3
: the art of producing illusions by sleight of hand
See magic defined for English-language learners »
See magic defined for kids »

Definition #1 would not rule out wizard-like power. However, it still bothers that the title of the movie implies the mago might be just a magician. In the books Dorothy I think is only about nine, at which she might believe all magic is real. Maybe a bad example, but my five year old always falls for the "I got your nose" magic trick.
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Wizard
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April 6th, 2012 at 7:12:56 AM permalink
Fecha: 6 de April, 2012
Palabra: Palmo


In English a common unit of measurement is the "foot." While I think all Spanish-speaking countries are on the metric system, they have not entirely given up on the pie as a unit of measuring length. They also have palmo, which I take to mean roughly a "hand span." This dictionary says it is "several inches."

Those who know me can probably guess that I'm not big these vague terms. I want to know exactly how many centimeters are in a palmo!

Also, where I encountered the term it was translated from the English foot. Would this imply that Spanish-speakers are more familiar with using palmo than pie as a form of measurement? That will be the question for the advanced readers.

Ejemplo time.

El partido entero de golf se redujo a uno palmo tirar al hoyo. Por supuesto, perdí. = The entire game of golf came down to a one "hand" putt. Of course, I missed.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Nareed
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April 6th, 2012 at 7:28:16 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

While I think all Spanish-speaking countries are on the metric system, they have not entirely given up on the pie as a unit of measuring length.



I can't speak to other countries, but in Mexico the foot as a unit of measure is extinct. You hear about it only when someone needs to convert a measurement in feet to meters, and that's rare enough.

The gallon has fared better, being only 7/8 dead. Some paint brands are sold by the gallon.

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They also have palmo, which I take to mean roughly a "hand span." This dictionary says it is "several inches."



It's not a common word in Mexican Spanish. I can't think of a time when I've come across it. In fact, I had to go to the dictionary, which has this to say:

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1. m. Distancia que va desde el extremo del pulgar hasta el del meñique, estando la mano extendida y abierta.

2. m. Medida de longitud de unos 20 cm, que equivalía a la cuarta parte de una vara y estaba dividida en doce partes iguales o dedos.



Quote:

Would this imply that Spanish-speakers are more familiar with using palmo than pie as a form of measurement? That will be the question for the advanced readers.



We're more familiar with using meters and centimeters.

Quote:

El partido entero de golf se redujo a uno palmo tirar al hoyo. Por supuesto, perdí. = The entire game of golf came down to a one "hand" putt. Of course, I missed.



"...se redujo a UN palmo DEL hoyo."
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pacomartin
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April 6th, 2012 at 7:58:56 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard


Those who know me can probably guess that I'm not big these vague terms. I want to know exactly how many centimeters are in a palmo!





basic relationships
uncia = palmus minor / 3
digitus = palmus minor / 4
palmus major =palmus minor*3
pes =uncia * 12 = palmus major + palmus minor
palmipes = pes + palmus minor

digitus 18.5 mm
uncia or pollex 24.6 mm
palmus minor 74 mm
palmus major 222 mm
pes 296 mm*
palmipes 370 mm

* 1 pes = 296 mm baseline equivalence

earth-based measurements
I always felt that the framers of the metric system had no right to disregard the ancient degree-minute-second earth based system. Had they made the distance from the equator to the north pole 10,800 km instead of 10,000 km they would have had a simple 2:1 relationship between minutes and kilometers.

The change would have been small enough that the system would have been quite usable. The base 10 system was fine, but there was no real reason to tie it to the size of the earth with a base 10 number. They just went overboard. Also it made the length of France exactly 1000 km along the meridian, which they liked.
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April 6th, 2012 at 8:47:47 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

I can't speak to other countries, but in Mexico the foot as a unit of measure is extinct. You hear about it only when someone needs to convert a measurement in feet to meters, and that's rare enough.



Good for Mexico. I favor going to the metric system here, and not the half-arsed way Jimmy Carter tried to. Can you comment on why the translators of my book translated "foot" to palmo? What did Mexico use before the metric system?

Quote: Nareed

Some paint brands are sold by the gallon.



Why are they holding out?

Quote:

"...se redujo a UN palmo DEL hoyo."



What is the word for "putt" in Spanish? For example, how would translate "My putting today has been terrible."
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Nareed
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April 6th, 2012 at 8:58:33 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Good for Mexico. I favor going to the metric system here, and not the half-arsed way Jimmy Carter tried to.



Let's start right now. Why not use only metric measures at this site?

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Can you comment on why the translators of my book translated "foot" to palmo?



To sound more literary, perhaps, or because they liked the word better.

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What did Mexico use before the metric system?



I don't know. Whatever the Spaniards used, I suppose. The Metric system is from the 18th Century, if memory serves, and Mexico achieved independence early int he XIX. I've no idea what the various indigenous peoples used.

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Why are they holding out?



America dominates the world's hardware business, you know :) All those DIYers and so on. Seriously, Many measures related to tools and hardware are still in some form of Imperial system. In other industries not so much. Restaurants which buy food in large quantities go for large containers of oil, vinegar, condiments and so on. A popular size for vinegar is one gallon, but all the jugs are marked in liters (3.8 or so)

Quote:

What is the word for "putt" in Spanish? For example, how would translate "My putting today has been terrible."



I don't know. I'll ask my brother when he comes back from vacation next week. I think many golf terms are the same as in English.
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pacomartin
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April 6th, 2012 at 9:20:53 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

I don't know. Whatever the Spaniards used, I suppose. The Metric system is from the 18th Century, if memory serves, and Mexico achieved independence early int he XIX. I've no idea what the various indigenous peoples used.

I don't know. I'll ask my brother when he comes back from vacation next week. I think many golf terms are the same as in English.




Goya's 3 May 1808. Famous painting of Spaniards defending city against invading Napoleanic army

Metric system became standard in France in 1799. France conquered Spain about 9 years later, and started the chaos in Europe that allowed the colonies to declare independence starting with Mexico in 1810. Mexico didn't formally adopt the metric system until 1867 after Emperor Maximilian was executed. It was part of Juarez's plan to modernize the country.

Prior to 1867 the United States was not industrial, and clearly Mexico was not. Mexico's first rail line from Veracruz to Mexico City was inaugurated on January 1, 1873. Measurements were less precise. Portions of Mexico were still under Indian control, and Spanish was not universal in the countryside. The constant wars had taken their toll. Population of Mexico was 8.74 million in 1868, while it was 6.20 million in 1820. US population was 9.6 million in 1820 and 38.56 million in 1870.

The dictionary says Mexicans use "putt" for the noun, and "potear" for the verb.

Quote: Wizard

Can you comment on why the translators of my book translated "foot" to palmo? What did Mexico use before the metric system?



My guess is that the word "pies" would be confusing since no one uses the word "foot" as a measurement anymore. The word centimeter, may have sounded out of place in time. The word "palmo" is clearly understood as a colonial measurement system.
1BB
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April 6th, 2012 at 1:08:05 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

This still bothers me. Why would Dorothy go off on a quest to get the witch's broom for just a magician? She had to believe he really had the power to send to back to Kansas. Titling it "The Magician of Oz" would absolutely ruin the story -- book or movie. I really wish I were still on speaking terms with my tutor to torture her with issue. This the kind of thing that will keep me up at night.

I never got into Harry Potter, but he actually did have supernatural powers, didn't he? I seem to recall telekinesis from a commercial of one of the movies. That would also make mago a bad translation.

I have a feeling that if I ever do become bilingual I'm going to be tortured whenever I see bad translations.[/q

Wiz,

I would love to hear you speak Spanish, so here's an idea. The next time you make a video with Dan or Angela, give us 30 or 60 seconds of your best Spanish. No fair practicing- just wing it. You could do this periodically and chart your progress.

Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
buzzpaff
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April 6th, 2012 at 1:30:10 PM permalink
Why not a Spanish version completely on Utube ? If Dan does not speak Spanish, perhaps El Gaupo is available .

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