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Nareed
Nareed
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January 29th, 2012 at 6:03:56 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

A question for the advanced readers is the difference between enfadar and enojar, which also means to get angry.



As far as I know, there's no difference.

Quote:

Estoy enfado porque el avión esta lleno y no puedo sentir en mi silla. = I'm angry because the airline overbooked and refused me my seat.

I know it is a terrible translation, but I didn't know how else to say it. Consider it my tribute to Hawaiian Airlines.



Here's the literal re-translation: "I be angry because the plane is full and I cannot feel my chair."

And here's the right translation: "Estoy andfadADO porqué la aerolinea sobrevendió el vuelo y me rehusó my asiento."

I wouldn't say for sure you'll find "sobrevender" in the dictionary. But it is used. It means "oversold" rather than "overbooked," but the overall effect on the sentence is the same.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
pacomartin
pacomartin
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January 29th, 2012 at 8:03:33 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Estoy enfado ... = I'm angry ...



Too add to Nareed's comment, it looks like you thought you were using the past participle because of the 'ado' ending. In reality you are using first person present indicative. Which is why Nareed translated your sentence as if it was in the vernacular.

The past participle is enfadado.

clue: past participle is a tough grammatical term to remember. In English if you start a sentence "I have ...", the version of the verb that you use is the past participle. In English it is regularly the same word as the simple past, as in "I have walked ..", but sometimes it's a different inflection, like "I have spoken .." which is different than the simple past, "I spoke at the luncheon yesterday".

In Spanish the past participle is always different than the simple past. In the case of this verb, the "-adar" ending is confusing, so you need an -adado ending to make the past participle.

Although enojar and enfadar can both be used reflexively when you yourself are becoming angry, I get the feeling that enfadar is more commonly used in the reflexive sense: 'enfadarse', while it is much more common to 'enojar' as a transitive verb when you mean to anger or vex another person. I haven't seen that in writing, but it seems that way from some usage. In your example you are using it reflexively because you are the one getting angry, you are not angering the Hawaiian Airlines representative.
Wizard
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Wizard
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January 29th, 2012 at 8:04:22 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

I wouldn't say for sure you'll find "sobrevender" in the dictionary. But it is used. It means "oversold" rather than "overbooked," but the overall effect on the sentence is the same.



Thanks. The translation of my sentence was the best laugh I've had in a while.

The airlines here use the word "oversold" now, but I refuse to dignify it by saying it, except to mock it. I think they know the public is angry about overbooking, so they changed the word in an effort to confuse us. Kind of like a "used car" has become a "pre-owned vehicle" to car salesmen.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Nareed
Nareed
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January 29th, 2012 at 8:49:08 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Thanks. The translation of my sentence was the best laugh I've had in a while.



Oh, likewise! I should thank you for it.

Quote:

The airlines here use the word "oversold" now, but I refuse to dignify it by saying it, except to mock it. I think they know the public is angry about overbooking, so they changed the word in an effort to confuse us.



I'm not sure about that. I think you can still make a reservation and purchase the ticket later. So both reserved and sold tickets are booked, but not all booked tickets are sold.

Quote:

Kind of like a "used car" has become a "pre-owned vehicle" to car salesmen.



Or kind of calling a second hand car "used"?
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
Wizard
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Wizard
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January 30th, 2012 at 7:29:55 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

I'm not sure about that. I think you can still make a reservation and purchase the ticket later. So both reserved and sold tickets are booked, but not all booked tickets are sold.



In my experience you can put a hold on a seat for 24 hours. Perhaps only international flights at that. I've never heard the term "overbook" to be used for anything other than not honoring a paid ticket because they sold too many tickets, and more passengers showed up than there were seats.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Nareed
Nareed
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January 30th, 2012 at 7:45:25 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

In my experience you can put a hold on a seat for 24 hours.



Things have changed a lot... I thought the immediate sell was only online. Oh, well. it still beats spending hours at a travel agency, watching the agent make calls.

Still, at Voalris.com.mx, you can reserve a seat and pay it within three days. They do that for customers who prefer to pay via bank deposit rather than credit card.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
pacomartin
pacomartin
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January 30th, 2012 at 9:54:34 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

wouldn't say for sure you'll find "sobrevender" in the dictionary. But it is used. It means "oversold" rather than "overbooked," but the overall effect on the sentence is the same.



In English the word sell from Anglo Saxon word sellan
The current meaning "to give up for money" had emerged by about a 1000 years ago.
Slang meaning "to swindle" is about 400 years old.
The phrase to sell one's soul is also about 400 years old.
The phrase hard sell is first recorded from 1952.
The phrase sell-by date is from 1972.
The phrase sell-out, as “corrupt bargain” is from 1862,
The phrase sell-out, as “there are no seats left” is from 1927.

I am not sure when oversold came into popular use. The word sobrevender is not in the DRAE, but it is all over the web and included in less prestigious dictionaries.
pacomartin
pacomartin
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January 30th, 2012 at 4:28:58 PM permalink
Nareed (or anyone),

I gave a book to my brother called Harvest of Empire and it mentioned an essay written in 1900 by Uruguayan José Enrique Rodó described as one of the most famous works of Latin American literature, in which he claimed the United States had lost its original idealism to materialist values, and that it was up to Latin America to preserve the idealism the New World represented.

My brother is about to read it. It seems like slow going since it is about 40 pages (25K words) of the following example.

I though I would ask if you read it for school. Wizard maybe your tutor has read it. The name of the essay is Ariel after the Shakespearean character in the play, The Tempest.

La concepción utilitaria, como idea del destino humano, y la igualdad en lo mediocre, como norma de la proporción social, componen, íntimamente relacionadas, la fórmula de lo que ha solido llamarse, en Europa, el espíritu de americanismo . The inextricably linked concepts of utilitarianism as a concept of human destiny and egalitarian mediocrity as a norm for social relationships compose the formula for what Europe has tended to call the spirit of Americanism.
Es imposible meditar sobre ambas inspiraciones de la conducta y la sociabilidad, y compararlas con las que le son opuestas sin que la asociación traiga, con insistencia, a la mente, la imagen de esa democracia formidable y fecunda, que, allá en el norte, ostenta las manifestaciones de su prosperidad y su poder como una deslumbradora prueba que abona en favor de la eficacia de sus instituciones y de la dirección de sus ideas. It is impossible to ponder either inspiration for social conduct, or to compare them with their opposites, without their inevitable association with that formidable and productive democracy to our North. Its display of prosperity and power is dazzling testimony to the efficacy of its institutions and to the guidance of its concepts.
Si ha podido decirse del utilitarismo que es el verbo del espíritu inglés, los Estados Unidos pueden ser considerados la encarnación del verbo utilitario. If it has been said that "utilitarianism" is the word for the spirit of the English, then the United States can be considered the embodiment of the word.
Wizard
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Wizard
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January 30th, 2012 at 4:36:06 PM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

The phrase to sell one's soul is also about 400 years old.



There needs to be an expression for losing one's soul in a bet.

Quote: pacomartin

I am not sure when oversold came into popular use.



Probably in the 80's when Reagan deregulated the airlines. I never heard the term before then.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
pacomartin
pacomartin
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January 30th, 2012 at 4:49:15 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Probably in the 80's when Reagan deregulated the airlines. I never heard the term before then.



It was actually Carter who deregulated the airlines in 1978.

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