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Nareed
Nareed
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November 16th, 2011 at 7:00:20 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Thanks Nareed. While I find such distinctions interesting, it probably a waste of my bandwidth to worry about the difference between hoyo y agujero and cascada y cataratas.



You're welcome. But bandwidth's cehap, unless you're on a cell phone connection...

Quote:

Good point about a black hole being small. I was indeed thinking of mass, but holes clearly usually are thought of in size, so mia culpa.



"MI culpa" :)

I'm not that well-versed in the size of a balck hole. But it stands to reason that a huge gravitational collapse ought not leave a large corpse behind.

Come to think of it, maybe the bad Disney movies was called "El Abismo Negro" in Mexico... I first saw in on video anyway. My dad was big on Disney and we'd just bought a VHS, so....
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pacomartin
pacomartin
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November 16th, 2011 at 8:16:46 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

About your Wiki link, Paco, that doesn't mention either term, but I enjoyed reading it anyway.



The article actually uses two different words for "hole(s)".

Quote: Spanish Wikipedia article


Algunos vienen con un agujero, rodeado de orificios más pequeños para tornillos, que permiten fijar el juguete sexual, así como la posibilidad de intercambiar los consoladores.



That just confuses things further. "Orifice" in English only implies biological holes. So now we have three words for hole in Spanish.


pacomartin
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November 16th, 2011 at 9:32:38 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

While I find such distinctions interesting, it probably a waste of my bandwidth to worry about the difference between hoyo y agujero and cascada y cataratas.



You do lead the charge into some of the exotic areas of vocabulary. Granted, I lead the way into some more obscure grammatical constructs.

A good use of your bandwidth is to look at the Oxford 3000 vocabulary list. Researchers spent years devising this list as the most useful 3000 words to learn for speakers of English as a Second Language. Given the huge prestige of the Oxford Dictionary, the researchers were hoping to develop some standardization of English pedagogy.

While it was designed for English, it makes a good vocabulary list if you can translate the entire list into Spanish.

Quote: Oxford 3000 selection process


The words which occur most frequently in English are included, based on the information in the British National Corpus and the Oxford Corpus Collection. (A corpus is an electronically-held collection of written or spoken texts, often consisting of hundreds of millions of words.)

However, being frequent in the corpus alone is not enough for a word to qualify as a keyword: it may be that the word is used very frequently, but only in a narrowly defined area, such as newspapers or scientific articles. In order to avoid including these restricted words, we include as keywords only those words which are frequent across a range of different types of text. In other words, keywords are both frequent and used in a variety of contexts.

In addition, the list includes some very important words which happen not to be used frequently, even though they are very familiar to most users of English. These include, for example, words for parts of the body, words used in travel, and words which are useful for explaining what you mean when you do not know the exact word for something. These words were identified by consulting a panel of over seventy experts in the fields of teaching and language study.

Wizard
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Wizard
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November 17th, 2011 at 2:40:22 AM permalink
Too add to the hoyo vs. agujero discussion, my tutor said a hoyo is generally in the earth and a hoyo is generally in the ground.

Thanks for the 3,000 words Paco, but I would quickly lose interest in Spanish if I had to work through 3,000 flash cards or a list that long. My philosophy of learning a language is to keep it as fun as possible, especially if you're not required to learn it, as in my case.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Nareed
Nareed
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November 17th, 2011 at 7:41:21 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Too add to the hoyo vs. agujero discussion, my tutor said a hoyo is generally in the earth and a hoyo is generally in the ground.



You lost me :)

I want to put in a suplemental Plabra del día, well, a phrase:

Buen Fin

Literally it means "good end," or good ending." Actually it means "have a good weekend." IN this case "fin" is short for "fin de semana" meaning "weekend."

This year, however, it also means, sort of, "Black Friday."

There's this idea to kick-start the economy by having lots of slaes, offers, incentives and so on over a long weekend (Monday is the annviersary fo the Mexican "Revolution"). Of course that won't work. it may kick-start sales, but more likely it won't even do that. Some epople may do some early xmas shopping. If so, that will cause a drop in sales by December...

Naturally the idea is to recreate the start of the Xmas shopping season in America, which nominally starts on Black Friday right after Thanksgiving. It makes some sense, but it flies on the face of tradition and patterns people are used to. Consider Mexicans buy Xmas presents, then throw New year's parties or dinners, and then buy toys for their children for January 6th (something related to Xmas, but I've no concise explanation; the holiday is called "Dia de Reyes" after the Three Wise Men of legend). And the start of the shoppign season for all that is December 13th, right after the feast of the Virgin of Guadalupe on Dec. 12th. The period is known, rather informally, as "maratón Guadalupe-Reyes."

Adding "El Buen Fin" 3 weeks earlier won't do much to change such ingrained behaviors. it would be like moving Thanksgiving to the first Thursday of November so people would begin to shop sooner. they may do that, but they won't shop more than they need or want to.

But since I don't buy Xmas presents, I don't like parties and I don't have children, it may be nice for a change to go bargain hunting in November rather than February :)

So, "Que pasen buen fin"
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pacomartin
pacomartin
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November 17th, 2011 at 8:28:01 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Too add to the hoyo vs. agujero discussion, my tutor said a hoyo is generally in the earth and a hoyo is generally in the ground.

Thanks for the 3,000 words Paco, but I would quickly lose interest in Spanish if I had to work through 3,000 flash cards or a list that long. My philosophy of learning a language is to keep it as fun as possible, especially if you're not required to learn it, as in my case.



I think you mistyped those guidelines.

Most 4 to 5 year olds have a 3000 word vocabulary. I kind of wish Instituto Cervantes would develop a similar list for Spanish.
pacomartin
pacomartin
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November 18th, 2011 at 6:25:58 AM permalink
Quote: Wikipedia article on craps

Las mesas de craps tienen superficies en las que los jugadores pueden dejar sus fichas de apuestas.

Los jugadores cogen los turnos según los tiros del dado que realiza el "Tirador".

Todos los jugadores de un juego apuestan contra la casa.

En Craps, un tirador lanza un par de dados para establecer un Punto - y las apuestas giran alrededor de las posibilidades de que el tirador repita dicho Punto antes de lanzar un 7.



I have some questions (for anyone).

(1) The word ficha seems to be different than the English word chip. A "Ficha técnica" looks like a technical manual or a television guide, and a "fichero informático" looks like a computer file. The English word chip originally meant a small piece of wood. Como se dice "computer chip" in español?

(2) The vebs "tirar" and "lanzar" confuse me. The dictionary says "tirar" could have a vulgar meaning. I've asked several Spanish speakers, and they say that the words are interchangeable. Is it traditional in Spanish to call the shooter a "tirador" and the action of throwing the dice using the verb "lanza"? How do the Spanish verbs align with the English verbs "throw","toss","fling" and "launch"?

(3) The phrase near the end "que el tirador repita dicho Punto". What is the meaning of the word "dicho" in this phrase? I would translate as "until the shooter repeats the point", but the verb "dicho" seems unnecessary. Would you translate the phrase "until the shooter repeats 'said' point"?

(4) The IC dictionary defines "Tirador" as a "Fencer". While the word "fence" has been in English usage for over 700 years, the idea that "fencing" means "receiving stolen goods" is only recorded from 1851. Is that what you would call a "fence" in Spanish?
Nareed
Nareed
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November 18th, 2011 at 6:35:33 PM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

I have some questions (for anyone).



It seems anyone's not here...

Quote:

(1) The word ficha seems to be different than the English word chip.



Ficha is a word for "token," as in a physical object that represents some valuable. Arcade games, for example, are designed to work with US quarters. Here arcades sell tokens for use in their games. These are called "fichas"

Quote:

A "Ficha técnica" looks like a technical manual or a television guide,



We sometimes make use of "fichas técnicas" for our products. They're spec sheets, varying from a general description of an item, to a detailed one including parameters such as protein content and other things like that. I'v eno idea how the word "ficha" fits in there, but it's commonly used.

Quote:

and a "fichero informático" looks like a computer file.



Yeah, that's mostly a Spaniard afectation. In Mexico it's called an "archivo", while a directory is called "folder." "Archivo" means file, filing cabinet and a large place where files are kept.

Quote:

The English word chip originally meant a small piece of wood. Como se dice "computer chip" in español?



In Mexico it's called "chip." I happened to note the other day my newest debit card has a chip on it, and when I put it in the ATM the screen says "Validando Chip." No doubt Spaniards use a different word. "Microcircuito de ordenador," probably. I'm not at war with "big" words, but I mislike "embigenning" simple terms. :)

Quote:

(2) The vebs "tirar" and "lanzar" confuse me. The dictionary says "tirar" could have a vulgar meaning. I've asked several Spanish speakers, and they say that the words are interchangeable.



Not to my knowledge. And I think we've been through this before, too. So briefly, then:

"Tirar" means both to throw and to pull. So for example target practice is called "tiro al blanco," because you pull on a trigger if you use a gun, or a string if you use bow and arrow. If you were to throw something in the wastebasket, you'd say "tíralo a la basura."

"Lanzar," means to throw and to launch. Thus you can say "lanzar un satélite," but for throwing it's used more in conenction with sports. You woulnd't say "lánzalo a la basura," when throwing something away, but the javelin thrwo, for example, is called "lanza de jabalina." (or is it "javalina? I'm not sure).

Quote:

Is it traditional in Spanish to call the shooter a "tirador" and the action of throwing the dice using the verb "lanza"?



A dice shooter would be a "tirador." When playing baord games with dice, the expression es "tira los dados."

Quote:

How do the Spanish verbs align with the English verbs "throw","toss","fling" and "launch"?



Ah, that's not brief :)

Quote:

(3) The phrase near the end "que el tirador repita dicho Punto". What is the meaning of the word "dicho" in this phrase? I would translate as "until the shooter repeats the point", but the verb "dicho" seems unnecessary. Would you translate the phrase "until the shooter repeats 'said' point"?



Yes. It's overused, but not considered superfluous.
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pacomartin
pacomartin
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November 19th, 2011 at 7:37:03 AM permalink
Quote: Wikipedia craps part II


Etapas
Existen dos etapas en potencia de este juego de craps.
La primera etapa se llama "la tirada de salida", en la que los jugadores realizan una apuesta en la Línea de Pase.
Después de hacer las apuestas en la Línea de Pase de la mesa, el Tirador tira el dado, que debe dar contra el fondo de la mesa y rebotar antes de quedarse en el lugar definitivo.
Tenga en cuenta que el dado se debe recoger con una sola mano.



I have a few questions for Nareed

(1) The phrase dos etapas en potencia translates literally as "two power stages". Is this the common way to phrase this concept?
(2) The phrase Pase de la mesa. I am not sure what is "passing" here. Is it the dice being passed with the stick to the shooter? Is "dice" understood? Wouldn't "dice" be plural?
(3) The word fondo seems strange to me. Would it also be correct to say contra el pared atrás which is close to the English "against the back wall"? Is it more natural to think of the furthest wall as the "back wall" or the "bottom wall"?

The dictionary translate "fondo" as "bottom" but also as "fund". I don't see the connection between those two concepts.

The word back has differences in regional English as well. In American English if you say "the cat is in back of the sofa" or "the cat is behind the sofa" they are interpreted the same way. British English tends to eschew the phrase "in back of".
Nareed
Nareed
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November 19th, 2011 at 10:59:49 AM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

(1) The phrase dos etapas en potencia translates literally as "two power stages". Is this the common way to phrase this concept?



In this case it means "potential." Ejemplo "Un feto es un ser humano en potencia" = "A fetus is a potential human being."

Quote:

(2) The phrase Pase de la mesa. I am not sure what is "passing" here.



He means the table's pass line. The phrase translates as "After making the table's pass line bets." I don't know why the author chose to use "de la mesa," since obviously the bets are placed on the table. It's redundant.

Quote:

Is it the dice being passed with the stick to the shooter? Is "dice" understood? Wouldn't "dice" be plural?



Another error. It should be "los dados."

Quote:

The dictionary translate "fondo" as "bottom" but also as "fund". I don't see the connection between those two concepts.



It also means "end" and "background." So the author's saying the dice ought to hit the back end of the table.
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