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Nareed
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November 4th, 2011 at 7:50:20 PM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

What do these Spanish words have in common?



¿Nada?
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pacomartin
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November 4th, 2011 at 8:20:45 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

¿Nada?



All those words were not taken from Latin, but are of Germanic origin. So adopting words from languages like English like aparcar has a traditional basis, and was done over the centuries.

I will grant you that there are only a handful that were adopted by the Spanish languages, versus the hundreds of thousands of latin words that were adopted into English.
Wizard
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November 4th, 2011 at 8:27:23 PM permalink
On the topic of idiomas in general, what do you have to say of the Asian languages? I know there are some similarities between Chinese and Japanese, and I think the major Asian languages have some words that sound very similar. I'm not sure what my question is, but who influenced who? Is there some master Asian language, perhaps defunct, that they are all roughly based on?

I find it interesting that all the Western languages have at least the very basics in common like letters and sentence structure. However, Chinese, for example, is just totally off the wall in comparison. For example, instead of letters, they have a unique drawing/symbol for most words. Then again, didn't the ancient Egyptians write that way too? I'm sure one could write a very thick book on this topic, so sorry to open a lata de lombrizes.
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pacomartin
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November 4th, 2011 at 8:53:37 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

On the topic of idiomas in general, what do you have to say of the Asian languages? I know there are some similarities between Chinese and Japanese, and I think the major Asian languages have some words that sound very similar. I'm not sure what my question is, but who influenced who? Is there some master Asian language, perhaps defunct, that they are all roughly based on?



There is a scientific theory that all languages derived from a single "proto-human" language which existed 100K-130K years ago. It would also go nicely with the Toba Catastrophe theory that says that 70K years ago when the Toba volcano erupted all the competing species except homo sapiens sapiens, and Neanderthals were eliminated. It is also thought that HSS was reduced to a few thousand breeding pairs.

But, to the best of my knowledge, there is nothing in Asia equivalent to Proto-Indo European (PIE) that unites most of the European languages. On the other hand, the population of Europe is relatively recent compared to that of Asia and Africa, and languages may reflect that. Of course, you have the problem of isolates like Basque.

Nareed
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November 4th, 2011 at 9:53:20 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I find it interesting that all the Western languages have at least the very basics in common like letters and sentence structure.



There's no mystery about the alphabet. Rome dominated all of Europe. What ti didn't conquer directly, it heavily influenced through trade. So the whole continent found it expedient to adopt the Roman alphabet.

As to sentence structure, I'm not so sure. You've found English and Spanish vary a lot in that regard. I understand German often leaves the verb near the end of a sentence.

Quote:

I'm sure one could write a very thick book on this topic, so sorry to open a lata de lombrizes.



That doesn't travel well, either. And it is "lombriCes." For some reason, in words ending with a "Z," like "lapiz" the letter gets changed to a "C" when making the plural, like "lapices."
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Doc
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November 4th, 2011 at 10:07:50 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

I understand German often leaves the verb near the end of a sentence.

I'm sticking my neck way out on this one -- it's my son who has a PhD in German, while I struggled to get a passing grade in it 45 years ago. Nevertheless, my recollection is that the standard structure of a German sentence has the primary verb as the second element, with either the subject or some other element in the lead position. I suspect that what you are thinking about, Nareed, is the dependent clauses in German sentences, where verb elements end the clause, sometimes with multiple verb elements stacked almost on top of each other at the end, if there is a complex combination of clauses.

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Wizard
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November 4th, 2011 at 11:05:11 PM permalink
Fecha: 4 de Noviembre, 2011
Estado: Queretaro
Palabras: Peña




Today's state is Queretaro. It is a small state I don't hear about often, and a tough one to get placas from. Like many states in southern Mexico, it has Myan pirámides.

The SWD is peña, which comes from the Peña de Bernal, the third largest "monolith" in the world, behind the more famous rock of Gibralter and Suglarloaf Mountain in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil. I think "monolith" is defined as a single piece of rock. I've climbed up Stone Mountain, Georgia, and wonder how that compares, or if it even counts as a monolith.

Anyway, the word peña by itself means a rock or large stone. Don't confuse it with piedra, which I take to mean a small rock/stone. I don't think Spanish has separate words for stone and rock.

Ejemplo time.

Traté subir a la peña, pero lo era demasiado escarpado para mí = I tried to climb the monolith, but it was too steep for me.

Doubts:

I thought about omitting the lo, as it could be implied from context, and somehow doesn't feel right. However, I'd kick myself if I omitted it, and Nareed told me it should be there.

It isn't often I stump my tutor, but when I tried to tell the story of some mountain I climbed I asked her how to say "steep" in Spanish, and she didn't know. We had to look it up, but I don't recall what she thought was appropriate for the siutaiton, thus still have my doughts about escarpado.

I will always have doubt in my usage of para y por.

I still have trouble beteween yo and mi, but am pretty sure mi is right in this case. I'm putting the accent on the i because it follows a preposition.
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Nareed
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November 5th, 2011 at 6:38:16 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Today's state is Queretaro. It is a small state I don't hear about often, and a tough one to get placas from. Like many states in southern Mexico, it has Myan pirámides.



And you criticize my knowledge of geography?

Queretaro is north and west of Mexico State, and it's not precisely small. There's a lot of industrial activity there, including a recently built aircraft plants part belonging to a Canadian company called Bombardier. I don't know if there are any pyramids there, but if so none are Maya. The Maya lived in the southeast of Mexico and what is now Belize and Guatemala.

I think you confused it with Quintana Roo, which is in the formerly Maya regions.

Quote:

I don't think Spanish has separate words for stone and rock.



Respectively "piedra" y "roca."

Quote:

Traté subir a la peña, pero lo era demasiado escarpado para mí = I tried to climb the monolith, but it was too steep for me.



Close. Bur first:

Quote:

Doubts:

I thought about omitting the lo, as it could be implied from context, and somehow doesn't feel right.



You should have thought harder :)

Quote:

However, I'd kick myself if I omitted it, and Nareed told me it should be there.



Well, you can't kick yourself very hard. It's not physically possible :) It doesn't belong in that sentence. Now:

Traté subir a la peña, pero era demasiado escarpadA para mí


Quote:

It isn't often I stump my tutor, but when I tried to tell the story of some mountain I climbed I asked her how to say "steep" in Spanish, and she didn't know. We had to look it up, but I don't recall what she thought was appropriate for the siutaiton, thus still have my doughts about escarpado.



I think your tutor lacks some knowledge of English. The word you want is "empinado/empinada." Escarpado works, too.

Quote:

I will always have doubt in my usage of para y por.



No problems there this time.

Quote:

I still have trouble beteween yo and mi, but am pretty sure mi is right in this case. I'm putting the accent on the i because it follows a preposition.



Really? Yo means I, Mí means Me. It's not quite as simple as that, but it works most times.
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Wizard
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November 5th, 2011 at 6:58:33 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

Well, you can't kick yourself very hard. It's not physically possible :) It doesn't belong in that sentence.



Thanks for all your help. I guess my philosophy is that it is a lesser sin to put in a word that doesn't belong than omit one that does.

Quote: Nareed

Traté subir a la peña, pero era demasiado escarpadA para mí



I blew the genders again. Why wouldn't it be demasiada, since peña is feminine?

Quote:

Really? Yo means I, Mí means Me. It's not quite as simple as that, but it works most times.



Then where does me (in Spanish) fit in? I thought of mi more like my or myself.

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pacomartin
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November 5th, 2011 at 8:01:31 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Today's state is Queretaro. It is a small state I don't hear about often, and a tough one to get placas from. Like many states in southern Mexico, it has Myan pirámides.



I also am confused by your comment. Querétaro has a few pyramids, but they are over 500 miles away from the major settlements of the closest Mayan cities. Although there were a number of minor civilizations in Mexico before the conquest, there were 6 significant ones with far reaching empires.

(1) Olmec civilization in Veracruz and Tabasco (no ruins left, only sculptures)
(2) Zapotec arose in the Valley of Oaxaca (oldest Metropolis in Western Hemisphere. Original name was forgotten so called Monte Alban after range in Italy)
(3) Teotihuacan civilization arose in the Valley of Mexico (Pyramids of sun and moon outside of Mexico city)
(4) Maya civilization began in modern-day Guatemala and expanded into the Yucatán Peninsula (multiple locations in deep South)
(5) The Toltec for a time dominated central Mexico in the 11th 13th century, then collapsed (very admired by the Aztec)
(6) The Aztec Empire arose in the early 15th century (Tenotichlan was capital, Completely destroyed by conquistadores and Mexico city built on ruins)
(*) Discovery by Spain and conquered by the conquistadores.

Aztec means "people from Aztlan". The major tribe did not call themselves Aztecs, but "Mexica". The Mexico told the Spaniards they did not know where Aztlan was located, as the history had been lost in their two century migration. The Chicano movement in the '60s and '70s popularized the idea that Aztlan was in the American southwest, and the Mexicans were reclaiming their ancient homeland. Even today, the National Park Service tried to destroy an piece of folk art that says Aztlan from a park in San Diego because they considered it to be subversive. The official position of the Mexican government is that Aztlan was located in present day Nayarit.

Teotihuacan (pyramids of sun and moon) was the center of a great civilization that was located roughly 26 air miles from the center of the Aztec civilization. It had been completely abandoned for centuries at the time of the conquest.

Queretaro had no cities at the time of the conquest and was built up by the Spaniards. It is considered part of the heartland of the Independence movement, and is never referred to as "southern" by Mexicans. Queretaro is one of the more affluent and fastest growing regions of central Mexico, and is dominated by a single urban area. The city is often mentioned as the primary candidate for a terminus for a new generation of high speed rail.

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