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Doc
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November 3rd, 2011 at 7:43:00 PM permalink
Quote: Doc

Upon my return from that cruise, I was deferred from donating blood for the next year, because the Red Cross considers Santa Cruz Huatulco to be in a malaria-risk area. Of course, Holland America never mentioned such a thing to us.

Quote: Nareed

Really? It's supposed to be an upscale, expensive kind of place.

I think that when I went to make my next blood donation, the Red Cross had the entire state of Oaxaca included as a malaria-risk area. Perhaps the climate, the "barro", and "los mosquitos" (finally, an easy translation!), keep the risks high once there is an infection. Maybe the local economy has also limited the infection treatment and insect eradication efforts. The Red Cross deferred me from donating for a year, but I have been back on the schedule for a good while now -- just made my 94th donation last week!
Wizard
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November 4th, 2011 at 12:26:39 AM permalink
Gracías todos para ayudarme en ambos Ingles y Español. Pero esta tiempo para asuntos nuevos.

Fecha: 3 de Noviembre, 2011
Estado: Puebla
Palabras: Cemita




Today's state is Puebla. My housekeeper Lupe is from Puebla, and mentions it once in a while. A while ago she tried to describe it to me, but all I can recall was mention of cascadas (waterfalls). Months later I mentioned to my tutor plans of visiting Argentina and she recommended I visit las Cataratas de Iguazu (Iguazu Falls). I questioned the word cataratas, saying that I thought the word for waterfall was cascada, as Lupe told me. To make a long story short, it would seem that a small waterfall is a cascada, and a big one is a catarata. Correct me if I'm wrong, which I usually am when it comes to Spanish.

Sin embargo, cascada is not the SWD. It is cemita, which is a kind of bread, what we would call in English a "roll." While Cemita sandwiches can be found in other parts of Mexico, I believe they originated from Puebla, and are still popular there. They can be filled with a host of different things, but all share the same Cemita pan (bread).

Ejemplo time.

No hay nada mejor que un bocadillo cemita para almuerzo. = There is nothing better than a cemita sandwhich for lunch.

As usual, my level of confidence in choosing para over por (or vise versa) is very low. I'd happily take +110 odds I'm wrong.
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pacomartin
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November 4th, 2011 at 2:36:36 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I questioned the word cataratas, saying that I thought the word for waterfall was cascada, as Lupe told me. To make a long story short, it would seem that a small waterfall is a cascada, and a big one is a catarata. Correct me if I'm wrong, which I usually am when it comes to Spanish.



Generally, it seems that you are correct that cataratas (literally cateracts in English) is for large waterfalls, but as the above Wikipedia quote says, the terms are vague and there is no formal distinction and may depend on traditional use. Other terms like salto and torrente can be used.

Quote: Wikipedia

En español se emplean varios términos para designar este accidente, como caída, salto, cascada, catarata, torrente, rápido o chorro, sin que estén claramente definidos ni científicamente determinados. Se emplea el término cascada para designar la caída desde cierta altura de un río u otra corriente por un brusco desnivel del cauce y se habla de catarata cuando se trata de una cascada muy grande o caudalosa.



The photos are of streams that break the general rule, where a large fall with a single plume of water in Arizona is a "cascada", and a small frozen creek is called a "catarata".

Cascada Havasu, Arizona, Estados Unidos, un ejemplo de cascada de tipo zambullida.


Catarata helada al sureste de Nueva York
pacomartin
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November 4th, 2011 at 2:59:36 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard


Fecha: 3 de Noviembre, 2011
Estado: Puebla
Palabras: Cemita


No hay nada mejor que un bocadillo cemita para almuerzo. = There is nothing better than a cemita sandwhich for lunch.

As usual, my level of confidence in choosing para over por (or vise versa) is very low. I'd happily take +110 odds I'm wrong.



If you are talking about something from Pueblo you use the term Poblano. China Poblano or the kidnapped slave from the 17th century is one of the most famous symbols of Puebla, and the name of a restaurant in the Cosmopolitan casino. Other phrases are "Mole Poblano" to refer to the famous sauce with multiple ingredients, but including chocolate and chilies. There are other kinds of moles as well. Oaxaca is sometimes called the "land of the seven moles". And lastly "cemita poblano" to refer to a sandwich made with the rolls with the sesame seeds.



The folk etymology in Mexico is to associate "cemita" and "semite" because of the fact that many Arabs bake this bread. Another famous delicacy if you visit Puebla is "tacos arabesque" which you can get in the main zocalo.


I don't think you would use "bocadillo" and "cemita" together. Bocadillo refers to a sandwich with hard crusty bread, while "cemita" is a soft bread with sesame seeds. The mainstay when you are walking around Madrid is to eat bocadillo de tortilla espanola (where tortilla is the egg and potato dish and not the Mexican style tortilla). It is cheap, filling and warm.



Phrase of the day
"Madrid tiene nueve meses de invierno y tres meses de infierno"
Nareed
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November 4th, 2011 at 8:58:05 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

To make a long story short, it would seem that a small waterfall is a cascada, and a big one is a catarata.



I gave up trying to find a difference years ago.

Quote:

No hay nada mejor que un bocadillo cemita para almuerzo. = There is nothing better than a cemita sandwhich for lunch.



Ok, for starters the Spanish word for "sandwich" is "sandwich." Yes, I know it's not on the text books, I know your tutor will probably hit you or strike you or smite you or something if you say so, but the Spanish word is "sandwich," at least all over Mexico.

Next, in case you absolutely refuse to say sandwich in Spanish, the word you should use then is "emparedado." Bocadillo means something like a bite-sized appetizer, or some type of miniature sandwich, or a cracker with a topping.

Finally: No hay nada mejor que un sandwich DE cemita para EL almuerzo"

Except you're running into cultural difficulties again. In Spanish-speaking countries, all of them as far as I know, the mid-day meal is the big meal of the day. "lunch" here means something like a snack break, which some people do call "almuerzo." So for a mid-day meal, referred to as "comida," a sandwich isn't enough. But that's a different problem.
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Wizard
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November 4th, 2011 at 9:35:05 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

I gave up trying to find a difference years ago.



If and when I make it to Iguazu Falls I will be sure to annoy todo el mundo with this question and report back on what they say.

Quote: Nareed

Ok, for starters the Spanish word for "sandwich" is "sandwich." Yes, I know it's not on the text books, I know your tutor will probably hit you or strike you or smite you or something if you say so, but the Spanish word is "sandwich," at least all over Mexico.



If I say sandwich for "sandwich," it will make the hair on the back of her neck stand up. She can't stand it when English words are adapted into Spanish, when there was already a perfectly good Spanish word. For example, one of her biggest pet peeves is the use of the word aparcar for "park," as in to park a car. She says this is a bastardized version of the English word for park, and the correct word is estacionar. Speaking of lunch, I think she once said that sometimes Spanish-speaking people in Vegas refer to lunch as "lunche," which makes her cringe just as much.

Quote: Nareed

In Spanish-speaking countries, all of them as far as I know, the mid-day meal is the big meal of the day.



I can't speak for anybody else, but after a big meal I just want to sit down and relax for a while. It would not be conducive to my productivity in a regular job if I ate an enormous lunch every day. Perhaps this explains the affinity for an afternoon siesta.
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Nareed
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November 4th, 2011 at 10:40:30 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

If and when I make it to Iguazu Falls I will be sure to annoy todo el mundo with this question and report back on what they say.



Just make sure to stand away from the railing when you do so. :)

Quote:

If I say sandwich for "sandwich," it will make the hair on the back of her neck stand up. She can't stand it when English words are adapted into Spanish, when there was already a perfectly good Spanish word.



Spanish teachers are like that. My own, dear HS Spanish teacher was that way, too. But I won the sandwich argument with him anyway :)

See, the noun "sandwich" is taken from a proper name. I think it was an English Lord, or Earl of some place called Sandwich. Therefore, I argued, the use of the name sandwich for the food is as appropriate as Cognac, or Tequila, or Champagne are for those drinks, even if Spanicized to words like Coñac or Champan (or Champaña). We went over it for a few days, and he conceded. Curiously, for him, he admonished me to use the full term sandwich rather than Spanicized verisons like sangüich (I kid you not).

I think I used the Sandwich Islands as an example, too, though I'm not sure such islands are even real :)

Quote:

For example, one of her biggest pet peeves is the use of the word aparcar for "park," as in to park a car. She says this is a bastardized version of the English word for park, and the correct word is estacionar.



She has a point there. The right word in Spanish is "estacionar."

Quote:

Speaking of lunch, I think she once said that sometimes Spanish-speaking people in Vegas refer to lunch as "lunche," which makes her cringe just as much.



More likely "lonche."

In Monterrey, NL, the word "lonche" means "sandwich."

Quote:

I can't speak for anybody else, but after a big meal I just want to sit down and relax for a while. It would not be conducive to my productivity in a regular job if I ate an enormous lunch every day. Perhaps this explains the affinity for an afternoon siesta.



Me, too. But it's ahrd to change what you're used to. So unless I'm on a setting that leaves me no choice, such as Summer camp, I keep to big mid-day meals around 2-3 pm and ligther dinners around 8-10 pm. At work it does nothing for afternoon productivity.
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pacomartin
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November 4th, 2011 at 2:36:35 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

See, the noun "sandwich" is taken from a proper name. I think it was an English Lord, or Earl of some place called Sandwich. Therefore, I argued, the use of the name sandwich for the food is as appropriate as Cognac, or Tequila, or Champagne are for those drinks, even if Spanicized to words like Coñac or Champan (or Champaña). We went over it for a few days, and he conceded. Curiously, for him, he admonished me to sue the full term sandwich rather than Spanicized verisons like sangüich (I kid you not).

I think I used the Sandwich Islands as an example, too, though I'm not sure such islands are even real :)



That's a very clever argument. According to DRAE "taco" literally means "plug" or "wadding". It would seem stupid to call a taco a "plug" just to give it an English name, So it makes sense to keep the British proper name for a sandwich.

Old English wīc, meaning ‘trading center’ or ‘harbor’, but I think it was kind of harbor of convenience, instead of a full fledged harbor like San Diego.
So the Earl of Sandwich was just the earl of a place called "Sandy Harbor". It's in the Southeast corner of England, where you catch the ferry straight to Ooestend, Belgium if you want to bypass France entirely. The suffix shows up in Norwich (North harbor), Eastwick (East Harbor), Southwick, and Westwick.

The Sandwich Islands was the original name for the Hawaiian Islands. Captain Cook named them for his sponsor, John Montagu, 4th Earl of Sandwich, but he was killed in 1779. The newly emerging nation of USA took an early interest in the islands, and they were never formally part of the British empire. However, the USA did not adopt Hawaii as a territory until over a hundred years later when they took Puerto Rico, Hawaii, Guam, and Philippines in one summer.


El deseo de proteger a una lengua de la influencia extranjera parece extraño que, naturalmente, ampliar los idiomas mediante la adopción de las palabras.

Por ejemplo, nadie siente la necesidad de eliminar los "pajamas" en el idioma Inglés sólo porque la palabra es el Hindi. Cómo se dice "pajamas" en México?
Nareed
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November 4th, 2011 at 3:04:55 PM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

That's a very clever argument.



Why, thank you.


Quote:

Old English wīc, meaning ‘trading center’ or ‘harbor’, but I think it was kind of harbor of convenience, instead of a full fledged harbor like San Diego.



I didn't know that.

I suppose if you dig enough about old European and British titles, you'll find a "Duke of the rottin marsh" or something like that ;)

Quote:

El deseo de proteger a una lengua de la influencia extranjera parece extraño que, naturalmente, ampliar los idiomas mediante la adopción de las palabras.



Beats me. There's not one language on earth, save perhaps some primitive indigenous languages, that do not incorporate words from other languages. English perhaps more than most, but I wouldn't be surprised if French and Dutch, too, have incorporated words from Caribbean and Spanish sources in them.

Quote:

Por ejemplo, nadie siente la necesidad de eliminar los "pajamas" en el idioma Inglés sólo porque la palabra es el Hindi. Cómo se dice "pajamas" en México?



Así, exactamente.

I'm serious. You'll sometimes find them spelled as "pIjamas," and the accepted, common pronunciation in mexico is "piyamas." When refering to a single set, too, you'll hear "pijama."
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pacomartin
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November 4th, 2011 at 6:37:33 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

I suppose if you dig enough about old European and British titles, you'll find a "Duke of the rottin marsh" or something like that ;)



Possibly, if you dig deep enough. Most of the names have pretty mundane origins:
Duke of Cambridge from Grontabricc from "Bridge on the River Granta"
Duke of Edinburgh from Din Eidyn "fort on a slope." Dunedin in New Zealand represents an attempt at the original form
Duke of York from Eoforwic probably meaning "Yew-Tree Trading place" (there is that wic again
Duke of Kent from Canticum often explained as "coastal district" but possibly "land of the hosts or armies"
Duke of Gloucester from Gleawceaster "bright place" (perhaps influenced by O.E. gleaw "wise, prudent") + O.E. ceaster "Roman town."


What do these Spanish words have in common?
abandonar
abordar
abrasa
arpa
arrimar
atrapar
bala
balón
banda
bandido
banco
blanco
brasa
estaca
guardar
sala
trampa

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