Two dice puzzle -- Part Trois
May 20th, 2022 at 3:31:43 AM
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Quote: DJTeddyBearLet me see if I can cut through the crap…
Alan -
What’s the odds that the person peeking will say that neither die is a 2?
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What's the conditions of the question? In other words, give me a full question so I know what the person peeking sees or says?
May 20th, 2022 at 4:14:19 AM
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This is ridiculous. Someone has time to endlessly attempt to defend his position over the last few days but doesn't have five minutes to roll the dice to understand the difference.
I think we are being trolled.
I think we are being trolled.
The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened
May 20th, 2022 at 4:27:41 AM
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Quote: billryanThis is ridiculous. Someone has time to endlessly attempt to defend his position over the last few days but doesn't have five minutes to roll the dice to understand the difference.
I think we are being trolled.
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Lest we forget.
Last edited by: OnceDear on May 20, 2022
Psalm 25:16
Turn to me and be gracious to me, for I am lonely and afflicted.
Proverbs 18:2
A fool finds no satisfaction in trying to understand, for he would rather express his own opinion.
May 20th, 2022 at 4:30:47 AM
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Quote: OnceDearQuote: billryanThis is ridiculous. Someone has time to endlessly attempt to defend his position over the last few days but doesn't have five minutes to roll the dice to understand the difference.
I think we are being trolled.
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Lest we forget.
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Yep.
And until someone can tell me why I need to consider both dice that's the way it stands.
I'm still waiting.
Why TWO dice?
May 20th, 2022 at 5:32:56 AM
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Quote: AlanMendelsonWhat's the conditions of the question? In other words, give me a full question so I know what the person peeking sees or says?Quote: DJTeddyBearLet me see if I can cut through the crap…
Alan -
What’s the odds that the person peeking will say that neither die is a 2?
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link to original post
OK. I’ll make this even simpler.
You roll two dice. What are the odds that neither will have a 2?
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, irrational, childish rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
May 20th, 2022 at 5:37:30 AM
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Quote: DJTeddyBearQuote: AlanMendelsonWhat's the conditions of the question? In other words, give me a full question so I know what the person peeking sees or says?Quote: DJTeddyBearLet me see if I can cut through the crap…
Alan -
What’s the odds that the person peeking will say that neither die is a 2?
link to original post
link to original post
OK. I’ll make this even simpler.
You roll two dice. What are the odds that neither will have a 2?
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I'm not going to bother with this because I dont see the point.
It's a distraction.
But maybe you can answer the question: why must two dice be used to answer the original question? After all, you need two dice to come up with 1/11.
May 20th, 2022 at 5:49:10 AM
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Quote: AlanMendelsonQuote: DieterQuote: AlanMendelsonAgain... everyone tells me I must consider two dice but no one tells me why?
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Please explain the functional difference between:
- a roll of two dice, ignored if no 2 is showing
- a roll of two dice, under a cup, and someone tells you at least one 2 is showing
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You got me on this one. But I'll play along.
You roll two dice and and no 2 shows? Well, you cant have a hard four... that's for certain.
And when two dice are rolled under a cup and someone tells you at least one 2 is showing? You have a 1/6 chance of getting a hard four.
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No 2 shows? That's either a no roll (en prison) or a push (you may take down).
I'm trying to figure out if the magic cup changes the way the dice land, and where DieterCo might procure them wholesale.
May the cards fall in your favor.
May 20th, 2022 at 6:00:47 AM
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Quote: DieterQuote: AlanMendelsonQuote: DieterQuote: AlanMendelsonAgain... everyone tells me I must consider two dice but no one tells me why?
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Please explain the functional difference between:
- a roll of two dice, ignored if no 2 is showing
- a roll of two dice, under a cup, and someone tells you at least one 2 is showing
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You got me on this one. But I'll play along.
You roll two dice and and no 2 shows? Well, you cant have a hard four... that's for certain.
And when two dice are rolled under a cup and someone tells you at least one 2 is showing? You have a 1/6 chance of getting a hard four.
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No 2 shows? That's either a no roll (en prison) or a push (you may take down).
I'm trying to figure out if the magic cup changes the way the dice land, and where DieterCo might procure them wholesale.
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Some people come here to be educated.
Some come here to be entertained.
Some come to entertain.
The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened
May 20th, 2022 at 6:27:51 AM
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Quote: billryan
Some people come here to be educated.
Some come here to be entertained.
Some come to entertain.
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I don't dance. My half-wit observations are what you get at my show. Tickets are cheap.
May the cards fall in your favor.
May 20th, 2022 at 7:02:24 AM
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Quote: AlanMendelsonQuote: DJTeddyBearQuote: AlanMendelsonWhat's the conditions of the question? In other words, give me a full question so I know what the person peeking sees or says?Quote: DJTeddyBearLet me see if I can cut through the crap…
Alan -
What’s the odds that the person peeking will say that neither die is a 2?
link to original post
link to original post
OK. I’ll make this even simpler.
You roll two dice. What are the odds that neither will have a 2?
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I'm not going to bother with this because I dont see the point.
It's a distraction.
But maybe you can answer the question: why must two dice be used to answer the original question? After all, you need two dice to come up with 1/11.
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Distraction????
It’s 25/36 - and you can look at any of the 36 dice combo pictures already posted to verify.
Had you suffered thru that very minor distraction, maybe you’d then realize that simple subtraction dictates that 11 out of 36 times there’s at least one 2. Therefore, only 1 out of 11 times will both dice be a 2.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, irrational, childish rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
May 20th, 2022 at 7:13:13 AM
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Now there's a question of semantics...Quote: DieterQuote: billryan
Some people come here to be educated.
Some come here to be entertained.
Some come to entertain.
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I don't dance. My half-wit observations are what you get at my show. Tickets are cheap.
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Is "Half-wit" meant as a noun or as an adverb or adjective? (3 options)
Is "Half-wit" referring to the observed or the observer, or maybe observations, themselves have the ability to be half witted? (3 options)
Observations was plural, so at least two of the observations were an observation
Therefore,
What is the maximum probability that Dieter just insulted someone :o)
Is it 1 in 18?
Would a comma change things?
Can we write a simulation or draw a venn diagram?
Psalm 25:16
Turn to me and be gracious to me, for I am lonely and afflicted.
Proverbs 18:2
A fool finds no satisfaction in trying to understand, for he would rather express his own opinion.
May 20th, 2022 at 7:16:50 AM
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Quote: DJTeddyBearQuote: AlanMendelsonQuote: DJTeddyBearQuote: AlanMendelsonWhat's the conditions of the question? In other words, give me a full question so I know what the person peeking sees or says?Quote: DJTeddyBearLet me see if I can cut through the crap…
Alan -
What’s the odds that the person peeking will say that neither die is a 2?
link to original post
link to original post
OK. I’ll make this even simpler.
You roll two dice. What are the odds that neither will have a 2?
link to original post
I'm not going to bother with this because I dont see the point.
It's a distraction.
But maybe you can answer the question: why must two dice be used to answer the original question? After all, you need two dice to come up with 1/11.
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Distraction????
It’s 25/36 - and you can look at any of the 36 dice combo pictures already posted to verify.
Had you suffered thru that very minor distraction, maybe you’d then realize that simple subtraction dictates that 11 out of 36 times there’s at least one 2. Therefore, only 1 out of 11 times will both dice be a 2.
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<golf clap>
May 20th, 2022 at 8:39:27 AM
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Quote: OnceDearNow there's a question of semantics...Quote: DieterQuote: billryan
Some people come here to be educated.
Some come here to be entertained.
Some come to entertain.
link to original post
I don't dance. My half-wit observations are what you get at my show. Tickets are cheap.
link to original post
Is "Half-wit" meant as a noun or as an adverb or adjective? (3 options)
Is "Half-wit" referring to the observed or the observer, or maybe observations, themselves have the ability to be half witted? (3 options)
Observations was plural, so at least two of the observations were an observation
Therefore,
What is the maximum probability that Dieter just insulted someone :o)
Is it 1 in 18?
Would a comma change things?
Can we write a simulation or draw a venn diagram?
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I fear you are chasing diminishing returns.
This debate is.going to take forever if I only get 1 day in 11 out of the briar patch.
May the cards fall in your favor.
May 20th, 2022 at 9:14:28 AM
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Quote: OnceDearNow there's a question of semantics...Quote: DieterQuote: billryan
Some people come here to be educated.
Some come here to be entertained.
Some come to entertain.
link to original post
I don't dance. My half-wit observations are what you get at my show. Tickets are cheap.
link to original post
Is "Half-wit" meant as a noun or as an adverb or adjective? (3 options)
Is "Half-wit" referring to the observed or the observer, or maybe observations, themselves have the ability to be half witted? (3 options)
Observations was plural, so at least two of the observations were an observation
Therefore,
What is the maximum probability that Dieter just insulted someone :o)
Is it 1 in 18?
Would a comma change things?
Can we write a simulation or draw a venn diagram?
link to original post
There must be an app for that.
The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened
May 20th, 2022 at 9:36:35 AM
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Quote: AlanMendelson
Yep.
And until someone can tell me why I need to consider both dice that's the way it stands.
I'm still waiting.
Why TWO dice?
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Because two dice were rolled. Because the dice observer looked at two dice.
“Man Babes” #AxelFabulous
May 20th, 2022 at 9:50:37 AM
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Quote: mipletQuote: AlanMendelson
Yep.
And until someone can tell me why I need to consider both dice that's the way it stands.
I'm still waiting.
Why TWO dice?
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Because two dice were rolled. Because the dice observer looked at two dice.
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And he saw one was a 2.
May 20th, 2022 at 9:54:45 AM
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Quote: AlanMendelsonQuote: mipletQuote: AlanMendelson
Yep.
And until someone can tell me why I need to consider both dice that's the way it stands.
I'm still waiting.
Why TWO dice?
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Because two dice were rolled. Because the dice observer looked at two dice.
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And he saw one was a 2.
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Correction: he saw at least one was a 2.
“Man Babes” #AxelFabulous
May 20th, 2022 at 9:55:52 AM
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I can explain it to you, but I can’t understand it for you.
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
May 20th, 2022 at 9:56:53 AM
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Where is Tina Turner when we need her?
The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened
May 20th, 2022 at 10:14:38 AM
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Quote: unJonI can explain it to you, but I can’t understand it for you.
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Please go ahead and explain it because no one has.
Everyone keeps saying two dice must be considered but no one has given a reason.
One even said you have to count the same die twice. But no reason is given.
So what's the reason?
May 20th, 2022 at 10:16:55 AM
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Quote: billryanWhere is Tina Turner when we need her?
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It took a moment...
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Tina+Turner+understand&iax=videos&ia=videos&iai=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D2g4wlmVgb1I
Psalm 25:16
Turn to me and be gracious to me, for I am lonely and afflicted.
Proverbs 18:2
A fool finds no satisfaction in trying to understand, for he would rather express his own opinion.
May 20th, 2022 at 10:18:27 AM
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I'd missed this rather wonky video from 2017. Wizard took 4 years to come up with this proof.... Four years he will never get back :o)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AD1qQzYqiHI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AD1qQzYqiHI
Psalm 25:16
Turn to me and be gracious to me, for I am lonely and afflicted.
Proverbs 18:2
A fool finds no satisfaction in trying to understand, for he would rather express his own opinion.
May 20th, 2022 at 10:26:09 AM
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I believe people have explained it. You just don't understand the explanation.Quote: AlanMendelsonPlease go ahead and explain it because no one has.
Everyone keeps saying two dice must be considered but no one has given a reason.
One even said you have to count the same die twice. But no reason is given.
So what's the reason?
It's a two dice problem. Two dice are involved. If you remove one of the dies, it becomes a different problem, a different scenario. You have to consider both dice.
The original question asks for the probability of BOTH dice being a 2, so we are talking about two dice. How can you not consider two dice?
That's the reason.
You can't just arbitrarily remove one of the dies, and just make references to the die that's left, as if the other die didn't exist at all, or was not part of the problem.
May 20th, 2022 at 10:40:16 AM
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As I posted yesterday, some turd on another forum took me up on this challenge only he did just what this guy is doing. He put one die aside, rolled the other one, and when the results were a pair about one out of every six rolls, he insisted it proved he was right and everyone else was wrong.
I completely understand how people can initially be mistaken. I certainly was in the one in six camp, until it was proven wrong. I'm afraid I just don't get people who can stare at the evidence and not see it.
Why in the world would somebody look at something called THE TWO DICE PUZZLE and ask why you need to consider two dice?
I completely understand how people can initially be mistaken. I certainly was in the one in six camp, until it was proven wrong. I'm afraid I just don't get people who can stare at the evidence and not see it.
Why in the world would somebody look at something called THE TWO DICE PUZZLE and ask why you need to consider two dice?
The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened
May 20th, 2022 at 10:44:09 AM
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Quote: OnceDearQuote: billryanWhere is Tina Turner when we need her?
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It took a moment...
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Tina+Turner+understand&iax=videos&ia=videos&iai=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D2g4wlmVgb1I
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"Talk about your women, I wish you could see mine
Every time we get to loving, she brings......"
Sonny Boy Williamson
The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened
May 20th, 2022 at 11:24:27 AM
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Quote: AlanMendelsonQuote: unJonI can explain it to you, but I can’t understand it for you.
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Please go ahead and explain it because no one has.
Everyone keeps saying two dice must be considered but no one has given a reason.
One even said you have to count the same die twice. But no reason is given.
So what's the reason?
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I have a dice. All its faces have 2 pips, as it is a novelty dice from the DieterCo premier collection (see the three quarter page mail order advertisement in Boys' Life, just below the Shocking X-Ray Spectacles with integrated dozen volt stun gun).
I place one of these dice in one of my hands.
You may pick Left or Right.
What are the chances you will select the hand with the dice?
May the cards fall in your favor.
May 20th, 2022 at 12:00:20 PM
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Quote: EdCollinsI believe people have explained it. You just don't understand the explanation.Quote: AlanMendelsonPlease go ahead and explain it because no one has.
Everyone keeps saying two dice must be considered but no one has given a reason.
One even said you have to count the same die twice. But no reason is given.
So what's the reason?
It's a two dice problem. Two dice are involved. If you remove one of the dies, it becomes a different problem, a different scenario. You have to consider both dice.
The original question asks for the probability of BOTH dice being a 2, so we are talking about two dice. How can you not consider two dice?
That's the reason.
You can't just arbitrarily remove one of the dies, and just make references to the die that's left, as if the other die didn't exist at all, or was not part of the problem.
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You're actually getting close to proving one of my points -- that this was a poorly worded question which was meant to confuse.
But with that said -- one more time... no one has explained why two dice are needed. Never in the question is there even a hint that it's a two dice question. So I'll ask again, why are you using two dice and counting ONE of the dice twice?
And in the spirit of the two dice proponents, why aren't you counting BOTH dice twice?
May 20th, 2022 at 12:04:17 PM
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I'm curious... how would you rephrase the problem/question so that the correct answer is indeed a probability of 1/11? (If you've done so earlier, my apologies... I missed it.)Quote: AlanMendelson...You're actually getting close to proving one of my points -- that this was a poorly worded question which was meant to confuse
May 20th, 2022 at 12:13:05 PM
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I suppose the author did a bad job as he only managed to fool one person.
The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened
May 20th, 2022 at 12:14:48 PM
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Quote: EdCollinsI'm curious... how would you rephrase the problem/question so that the correct answer is indeed a probability of 1/11? (If you've done so earlier, my apologies... I missed it.)Quote: AlanMendelson...You're actually getting close to proving one of my points -- that this was a poorly worded question which was meant to confuse
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Yes, I've offered an example before and here it is:
How many combinations of two dice show at least one 2? And how many of those combinations show 2-2?
Granted, it's not a rewrite of the so-called original question but it does elicit an answer of 1/11.
The so-called original question does not indicate anything but examining the "unreported" die in the cup.
May 20th, 2022 at 12:17:21 PM
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Quote: billryanI suppose the author did a bad job as he only managed to fool one person.
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I'll put money on this: I'm not the only one who says 1/6.
How much?
May 20th, 2022 at 12:29:25 PM
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Quote: AlanMendelsonQuote: billryanI suppose the author did a bad job as he only managed to fool one person.
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I'll put money on this: I'm not the only one who says 1/6.
How much?
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How many of us looked at the evidence and still insisted it was 1 in 6. How is it that someone like myself can look at the evidence, see how I was mistaken and use the actual evidence to come up to the correct answer while you keep saying there is no evidence and it doesn't matter anyway.
When you look at the various charts that show there are 11 possible combinations and only one is a pair, what is your reaction?
The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened
May 20th, 2022 at 12:48:39 PM
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Quote: billryanQuote: AlanMendelsonQuote: billryanI suppose the author did a bad job as he only managed to fool one person.
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I'll put money on this: I'm not the only one who says 1/6.
How much?
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How many of us looked at the evidence and still insisted it was 1 in 6. How is it that someone like myself can look at the evidence, see how I was mistaken and use the actual evidence to come up to the correct answer while you keep saying there is no evidence and it doesn't matter anyway.
When you look at the various charts that show there are 11 possible combinations and only one is a pair, what is your reaction?
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Tell you what...
I'll go on my TV show with the question, solicit postcards with an answer as part of a drawing.
How many 1/6 votes do I need?
May 20th, 2022 at 1:00:27 PM
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Quote: AlanMendelsonBut with that said -- one more time... no one has explained why two dice are needed. Never in the question is there even a hint that it's a two dice question.
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Recall the original question was this:
You have two 6-sided dice in a cup (You cannot have two dice in a cup without two dice)
It doesn't say you have one die in a cup.
You shake the dice (You Shake the dice: Plural. You can't shake two dice by shaking one dice.)
, and slam the cup down onto the table, hiding the result. Your partner peeks under the cup, and tells you, truthfully,
At least one of the dice( You can't look at the dice unless there's a pair of dice. If there were only one Die under the cup it would have said, 'the Die') is a 2.
"What is the probability that both dice are showing a 2? "
Now that's the kicker. It DOES NOT SAY "what is the probability that the other die is a 2". It Just DOESN'T
Both dice can never be a two unless there are two dice. You need two dice! The peeker needs to be able to peek at two dice.
You are considering two dice. That's what a pair of dice is: Two dice. I thought everybody know this.
But then
..... Alan and one other member doesn't agree. Ayecarumba! Unless he saw the light. But even with him, the insistence was about peeking at only one die being the most likely scenario.
Incidentally. Did I read somewhere that Alan does not do cash wagering with forum members?
Last edited by: OnceDear on May 20, 2022
Psalm 25:16
Turn to me and be gracious to me, for I am lonely and afflicted.
Proverbs 18:2
A fool finds no satisfaction in trying to understand, for he would rather express his own opinion.
May 20th, 2022 at 1:09:48 PM
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Quote: AlanMendelson
Tell you what...
I'll go on my TV show with the question, solicit postcards with an answer as part of a drawing.
How many 1/6 votes do I need?
link to original post
Truth is not a democracy. Math is not an opinion.
Psalm 25:16
Turn to me and be gracious to me, for I am lonely and afflicted.
Proverbs 18:2
A fool finds no satisfaction in trying to understand, for he would rather express his own opinion.
May 20th, 2022 at 1:10:40 PM
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I bet Rob Singer thinks it is 1/6
May 20th, 2022 at 1:12:14 PM
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Quote: JohnzimboI bet Rob Singer thinks it is 1/6
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... maybe he can get offered 8:1 as well.
May the cards fall in your favor.
May 20th, 2022 at 1:25:40 PM
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No. Singer knew and acknowledged that Alan was wrong. He later backtracked to give Alan support, so as to put one over on the members of this forum. Alan did have a few agree with him over on what was his forum, but then again, that was all about hostility to this forum.Quote: JohnzimboI bet Rob Singer thinks it is 1/6
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Quote: Rob.Singer;27500I revert back to my last post. I need to know which interpretation of the "OQ" is being used as a baseline. If it's mine, where the peeked-at die showing a 2 gets eliminated, then 9-1 is too generous, even for a kind soul like Shack. I'll take that action until the cows come home.
But, if as I suspect, we don't get to see which die has the original 2 until after the bet, then 9-1 is a punk bet because two 2's, after knowing half the outcome at that point, is an 11-1 event in this case.
I expect wizard would enjoy a trip up here while getting out of that chaotic city, but I can't believe he's serious if the first interpretation prevails.
You see that, Alan? Even your buddy Rob Singer tried to explain to you that "You now have to consider all combinations of the two dice where either one of them shows a 2.Quote: Rob.Singer;27510Alan, there is a difference, which is why I asked about the interpretation--which IMO can be taken two ways. It appears the WoV interpretation reigns, and from the looks of things, the wizard is only paying 9 units for something that has 11-1 odds.Quote: Alan Mendelson;27501Rob: the bet isn't "on" until the peeker says there is at least one die showing a 2....
If we're at this point, I'll explain why. When two dice are peeked at and we're informed that one of them is a 2, if that die is removed from the scene then we're left with a single die that no longer has a numerical relationship to the die showing a 2. This is the way I interpret the problem with the wording from the OP, and the odds that 2nd die will be a 2 is 6-1.
However, if you take the WoV interpretation, simply telling you that one of the dice shows a 2 does not remove it from its numerical relationship with the die with the unknown number showing. Whereas rolling 2-2 is a 36-1 possibility, knowing half the outcome, ie. one of the dice is showing a 2, reduces the odds to 11-1 since it is no longer a single die event. You now have to consider all combinations of the two dice where either one of them shows a 2.
Last edited by: OnceDear on May 20, 2022
Psalm 25:16
Turn to me and be gracious to me, for I am lonely and afflicted.
Proverbs 18:2
A fool finds no satisfaction in trying to understand, for he would rather express his own opinion.
May 20th, 2022 at 2:37:34 PM
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Ok. I’ll give this a shot, again…Quote: AlanMendelsonEveryone keeps saying two dice must be considered but no one has given a reason.
So what's the reason?
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There is never any indication that the person peeking is only reporting about the first die that he saw.
“At least one die…” may mean that he looked at only one die, saw a 2, and reported it. Or it may mean he did not see a 2, then looked at the other die, saw a 2, and reported it. Of course, it could also mean that he looked at both dies, saw that they were both a 2, and still reported that at least one is it 2.
It is not a lie or deceitful to look at both dies, see only one 2, and say, “At least one die is a 2.”
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, irrational, childish rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
May 20th, 2022 at 2:46:35 PM
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Discussion of the get-together to prove or disprove this, is in the thread about the table game show, starting here:
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gaming-business/game-inventors/35892-cutting-edge-2021/#post851048
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gaming-business/game-inventors/35892-cutting-edge-2021/#post851048
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, irrational, childish rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
May 20th, 2022 at 3:10:37 PM
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Quote: AlanMendelsonQuote: billryanQuote: AlanMendelsonQuote: billryanI suppose the author did a bad job as he only managed to fool one person.
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I'll put money on this: I'm not the only one who says 1/6.
How much?
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How many of us looked at the evidence and still insisted it was 1 in 6. How is it that someone like myself can look at the evidence, see how I was mistaken and use the actual evidence to come up to the correct answer while you keep saying there is no evidence and it doesn't matter anyway.
When you look at the various charts that show there are 11 possible combinations and only one is a pair, what is your reaction?
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Tell you what...
I'll go on my TV show with the question, solicit postcards with an answer as part of a drawing.
How many 1/6 votes do I need?
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Need for what? We already know most American adults can't pass fifth grade math.
How about this.
Do a show and ask people to write in. Then get anyone who understands math to come on your show, walk everyone thru the proper way to answer the question. Then see how many still agree with you. I've found there are always one or two in every crowd.
The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened
May 20th, 2022 at 3:16:49 PM
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Allen,
Please answer each question, step by step. Maybe then you can see why you are mistaken
1) There are 36 combinations you can roll with two dice Yes or No
2) Of those 36 combinations, there are eleven possible combinations that contain a Six. Are we in agreement?
3) After they are rolled and we know there is at least one six, the twenty-five other combinations are eliminated because we know there is a six. Do you agree to this?
Please answer each question, step by step. Maybe then you can see why you are mistaken
1) There are 36 combinations you can roll with two dice Yes or No
2) Of those 36 combinations, there are eleven possible combinations that contain a Six. Are we in agreement?
3) After they are rolled and we know there is at least one six, the twenty-five other combinations are eliminated because we know there is a six. Do you agree to this?
The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened
May 20th, 2022 at 3:34:49 PM
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Quote: AlanMendelson
Tell you what...
I'll go on my TV show with the question, solicit postcards with an answer as part of a drawing.
How many 1/6 votes do I need?
link to original post
pi has been voted to be 3 and 22/7.
Popular opinion seems to have little influence on how the math actually works.
May the cards fall in your favor.
May 20th, 2022 at 3:42:59 PM
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Quote: OnceDearQuote: AlanMendelsonBut with that said -- one more time... no one has explained why two dice are needed. Never in the question is there even a hint that it's a two dice question.
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Recall the original question was this:
You have two 6-sided dice in a cup (You cannot have two dice in a cup without two dice)
It doesn't say you have one die in a cup.
You shake the dice (You Shake the dice: Plural. You can't shake two dice by shaking one dice.)
, and slam the cup down onto the table, hiding the result. Your partner peeks under the cup, and tells you, truthfully,
At least one of the dice( You can't look at the dice unless there's a pair of dice. If there were only one Die under the cup it would have said, 'the Die') is a 2.
"What is the probability that both dice are showing a 2? "
Now that's the kicker. It DOES NOT SAY "what is the probability that the other die is a 2". It Just DOESN'T
Both dice can never be a two unless there are two dice. You need two dice! The peeker needs to be able to peek at two dice.
You are considering two dice. That's what a pair of dice is: Two dice. I thought everybody know this.
But then
..... Alan and one other member doesn't agree. Ayecarumba! Unless he saw the light. But even with him, the insistence was about peeking at only one die being the most likely scenario.
Incidentally. Did I read somewhere that Alan does not do cash wagering with forum members?
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Nice try.
But you dont have to look at either die to answer the question. All you need to know is that any six sided die has one face that's a 2. Therefore to have 2-2 the probability is 1-6 since the peeker has told us at least one die is a 2.
So this cancels out whether it's the right die or left die or top die or bottom die or blue die or red die.
But thanks for trying.
May 20th, 2022 at 3:48:13 PM
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Quote: DieterQuote: AlanMendelson
Tell you what...
I'll go on my TV show with the question, solicit postcards with an answer as part of a drawing.
How many 1/6 votes do I need?
link to original post
pi has been voted to be 3 and 22/7.
Popular opinion seems to have little influence on how the math actually works.
link to original post
Really?
It was public opinion that saved us from having to use meters and liters and all those other foreign concepts.
Little known fact.
In the past, the US Government has used Roman numerals on some coins. As the year 2000 was approaching, some beancounter concluded that by switching back to Roman numbers for 2000 and for the next decade, the mint would save a large sum of money on die since MM is half the figure of 2000. Public outrage put an end to it. Can't be putting no foreign numbers on our money. No thank you. We use good old Arabic numbers, made here in the USofA.
The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened
May 20th, 2022 at 3:56:42 PM
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Quote: billryanQuote: DieterQuote: AlanMendelson
Tell you what...
I'll go on my TV show with the question, solicit postcards with an answer as part of a drawing.
How many 1/6 votes do I need?
link to original post
pi has been voted to be 3 and 22/7.
Popular opinion seems to have little influence on how the math actually works.
link to original post
Really?
It was public opinion that saved us from having to use meters and liters and all those other foreign concepts.
Little known fact.
In the past, the US Government has used Roman numerals on some coins. As the year 2000 was approaching, some beancounter concluded that by switching back to Roman numbers for 2000 and for the next decade, the mint would save a large sum of money on die since MM is half the figure of 2000. Public outrage put an end to it. Can't be putting no foreign numbers on our money. No thank you. We use good old Arabic numbers, made here in the USofA.
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This is interesting.
I know about the 1907 $20 gold piece using Roman numerals, but I didnt know there were others?
I'd be surprised if Disney wasn't part of the campaign.
May 20th, 2022 at 4:24:18 PM
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I think the first was the three cent coin in the 1850s, and then around 1880, all the coins did. They also used them on a bunch of commemorative coins in the 1980s.
The 1883 nickel and 1883 $5 gold coins were exact duplicates, except one was made of gold and one wasn't.
On the back of each coin was a big V indicating 5, but it didn't say cents or dollars. Some APs quickly realized by gold-plating the nickel they could pass them off as $5 coins.
The 1883 nickel and 1883 $5 gold coins were exact duplicates, except one was made of gold and one wasn't.
On the back of each coin was a big V indicating 5, but it didn't say cents or dollars. Some APs quickly realized by gold-plating the nickel they could pass them off as $5 coins.
The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened
May 20th, 2022 at 5:14:11 PM
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Quote: billryanAllen,
Please answer each question, step by step. Maybe then you can see why you are mistaken
1) There are 36 combinations you can roll with two dice Yes or No
2) Of those 36 combinations, there are eleven possible combinations that contain a Six. Are we in agreement?
3) After they are rolled and we know there is at least one six, the twenty-five other combinations are eliminated because we know there is a six. Do you agree to this?
link to original post
Why won't Allen answer these simple questions?
The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened
May 20th, 2022 at 5:42:07 PM
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Quote: billryanQuote: DieterQuote: AlanMendelson
Tell you what...
I'll go on my TV show with the question, solicit postcards with an answer as part of a drawing.
How many 1/6 votes do I need?
link to original post
pi has been voted to be 3 and 22/7.
Popular opinion seems to have little influence on how the math actually works.
link to original post
Really?
It was public opinion that saved us from having to use meters and liters and all those other foreign concepts.
link to original post
(roman numeral history trimmed)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_Pi_Bill
Apparently some of the rumors about Oklahoma, Kansas, and Alabama are "somewhat exaggerated."
May the cards fall in your favor.
