Quote:AlanMendelsonI have been accused of being a math denier only for saying what I've seen. And not because I ever challenged any math.

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You absolutely are a math denier. That is crystal clear from your hundreds and hundreds of posts in denial of the answer to the two-dice problem.

If this were an astronomy forum, you would be the one proclaiming the earth is flat.

Quote:WizardQuote:AlanMendelsonI have been accused of being a math denier only for saying what I've seen. And not because I ever challenged any math.

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You absolutely are a math denier. That is crystal clear from your hundreds and hundreds of posts in denial of the answer to the two-dice problem.

If this were an astronomy forum, you would be the one proclaiming the earth is flat.

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What I "denied" is the wording of the question. You were going to follow up by asking someone involved with English if the question was worded correctly. Did you?

Quote:AlanMendelsonWhat I "denied" is the wording of the question. You were going to follow up by asking someone involved with English if the question was worded correctly. Did you?

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I don't remember that. What was wrong with the wording?

Quote:WizardQuote:AlanMendelsonWhat I "denied" is the wording of the question. You were going to follow up by asking someone involved with English if the question was worded correctly. Did you?

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I don't remember that. What was wrong with the wording?

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You want to start this again?

Okay.

Go ahead and post the original question. I don't want to be accused of changing anything.

After you post the question I'll point out the problem with how it's worded.

Quote:AlanMendelsonYou want to start this again?

Okay.

Go ahead and post the original question. I don't want to be accused of changing anything.

After you post the question I'll point out the problem with how it's worded.

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I will decline to start a part trois to that topic. I invite you to explain how the wording was bad as a post in part deux. There, I'll be happy to entertain your complaint on the wording.

Quote:WizardQuote:AlanMendelsonYou want to start this again?

Okay.

Go ahead and post the original question. I don't want to be accused of changing anything.

After you post the question I'll point out the problem with how it's worded.

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I will decline to start a part trois to that topic. I invite you to explain how the wording was bad as a post in part deux. There, I'll be happy to entertain your complaint on the wording.

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You'll have to tell me which post contains the original question.

On the last page of that thread I mentioned the awkward wording.

Again, if the original wording was posted I'll specifically point it out.

Quote:AlanMendelsonYou'll have to tell me which post contains the original question.

On the last page of that thread I mentioned the awkward wording.

Again, if the original wording was posted I'll specifically point it out.

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The original wording is right in the first post of the original thread. Please tell me what's wrong with it in part deux thread -- not here.

Quote:WizardQuote:AlanMendelsonYou'll have to tell me which post contains the original question.

On the last page of that thread I mentioned the awkward wording.

Again, if the original wording was posted I'll specifically point it out.

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The original wording is right in the first post of the original thread. Please tell me what's wrong with it in part deux thread -- not here.

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Thanks for pointing it out.

For everyone here's the original wording:

_____________________

You have two 6-sided dice in a cup. You shake the dice, and slam the cup down onto the table, hiding the result. Your partner peeks under the cup, and tells you, truthfully, "At least one of the dice is a 2."

What is the probability that both dice are showing a 2?

_______________________

And here's the problem with the wording. It is in this sentence.

"Your partner peeks under the cup, and tells you, truthfully, 'At least one of the dice is a 2.' "

The question is phrased in such a way that it makes you take on the role of "the partner" who looks under the cup.

Now, as "the partner" what do YOU see when you look under the cup?

As I wrote when this problem was first presented, I suggested a PROPERLY PHRASED question would be something like...

How many combinations of two dice show at least one 2, and how many of those combinations would be 2-2?

Instead, we got an awkwardly written question which elicits a different answer than what was intended.

As I pointed out before... it's not a math problem, it's an English problem. And unfortunately the bad English has been repeated so many times it has become accepted.

Ask the question MY WAY and the answer is 1 out of 11.

But if you take the position of the partner who peeks under the cup, like the partner who sees one die showing a 2 you would have to say the answer is 1 out of 6.

Of course I mentioned this before and I was told I dont understand English. So, I give up.

I dont understand English.

I dont see shooters making the ALL more often than once in 190 rolls.

I never saw a random roller throw 18 yos in a row.

I believe the world is flat.

I'm a moron.

I'm a liar.

Yeah, I'm wrong about everything.

Except, Wizard, I did send you the three photos of the stacked dice.

Here are the first two parts of this topic:

Part 1

Part 2

Quote:AlanMendelson...For everyone here's the original wording:

_____________________

You have two 6-sided dice in a cup. You shake the dice, and slam the cup down onto the table, hiding the result. Your partner peeks under the cup, and tells you, truthfully, "At least one of the dice is a 2."

What is the probability that both dice are showing a 2?

_______________________

And here's the problem with the wording. It is in this sentence.

"Your partner peeks under the cup, and tells you, truthfully, 'At least one of the dice is a 2.' "

The question is phrased in such a way that it makes you take on the role of "the partner" who looks under the cup.

What are you talking about? The question states the partner is a separate person. You are not the one peeking under the cup.

Quote:Now, as "the partner" what do YOU see when you look under the cup?

The question doesn't state that, except that he either sees one or two two's.

Quote:As I wrote when this problem was first presented, I suggested a PROPERLY PHRASED question would be something like...

How many combinations of two dice show at least one 2, and how many of those combinations would be 2-2?

That is a very simplified version of the problem. The goal of the original wording was to get from that wording to how you stated it, or to solve it some other correct way, like Bayesian analysis.

Quote:Instead, we got an awkwardly written question which elicits a different answer than what was intended.

As I pointed out before... it's not a math problem, it's an English problem. And unfortunately the bad English has been repeated so many times it has become accepted.

There was nothing wrong with the original wording. You just didn't understand it.

Quote:But if you take the position of the partner who peeks under the cup, like the partner who sees one die showing a 2 you would have to say the answer is 1 out of 6.

No!!!!!!!!! The question never said you are the peeker and see just one die.

Quote:Of course I mentioned this before and I was told I dont understand English. So, I give up.

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That's right -- You don't understand English. Your interpretation of the problem is completely ridiculous. I admit your spelling and grammar are fine, but your reading comprehension about this and everything related to math is terrible.

If you feel this is an insult, report it, I'll accept the punishment of any other moderator. However, I had to get that off my chest.