2016 Election -- Part II
Poll
 | 57 votes (47.89%) | ||
| | 33 votes (27.73%) | ||
| | 12 votes (10.08%) | ||
| | 10 votes (8.4%) | ||
| | 4 votes (3.36%) | ||
| | 3 votes (2.52%) |
119 members have voted
Quote: MathExtremistIf you're going to tout Trump's allegedly-impressive record of running businesses or you'll have to peek under the rug and realize his business strategy primarily consists of suing and screwing. I wouldn't mind an honest, successful businessman in the White House, but I'd rather have an experienced policymaker. Trump is neither. He's "successful" in precisely the same way an armed bank robber is successful. He has lots of money, but he didn't make it. Some of it he "saved" by not paying people who worked for him, and most of it he inherited from his dad.
Trump sometimes wants to present himself as a guy who knows all the dirty tricks to get ahead, and now is going to run as a reformer against the same kind of things he did or was aware of.
Unfortunately, AFAIC, he needed to start before becoming a candidate, there is no reason to believe him.
Quote: TankoIt's not just the Libyans.
We've been fighting in Afghanistan for the past fifteen years against a country whose only crime against us was their refusal to turn over Bin Ladin without proof he was responsible for the attacks on 9/11.
In the meantime, after we wasted $3-$6 trillion and thousands of lives, the Chinese secured the rights to Afghanistan's minerals valued at $3 trillion.
And our troops are providing the security.
Brookings
Fifteen of the nineteen hijackers were Saudi's, and the recently released 28 pages of the 9/11 report show the US believed Saudi officials possibly bankrolled the attacks.
Report
But they get a pass.
Then we negotiate a cease fire with the Russians in Syria, only to commit a war crime and bomb a Syrian army base two days later, killing 62 Syrian soldiers and wounding 100 more, by "mistake".
Syria
Syria another country that never did anything against the US, but gets bombed anyway.
Maybe Canada is next.
Look for the US to get more involved big time in Syria after the election.
Somehow, none of that matters because Trump is a jerk.
Hillary and her team have been ramping up for something horrible in Syria. Certainly, that's part of all their anti-Russian stuff. Oh, and that's gonna be great too. More conflict with Russia.
Ben Norton, one of the few substantial writers at Salon, had a good article recently about how Hillary opposed Vietnam war protesters.
http://www.salon.com/2016/11/04/hillary-clinton-lost-sleep-trying-to-talk-wellesley-students-out-of-vietnam-war-protests/
"Reflecting more than 20 years later on the spring of 1968 in an interview with a Wellesley alumni magazine, Hillary explained, âI stayed up all night ⦠to talk students out of staging a Vietnam War protest that would embarrass our college.â
Hillary ostensibly opposed the Vietnam War by 1968, but would go on to establish herself in later years as one of the most hawkish figures in U.S. politics. She has supported virtually every U.S. military intervention of the past 30 years, and often with fervent enthusiasm."
But each and every time, it was a "mistake." Certainly, she will change once elected.
Libya is somewhat special, though, because it was her baby. Without her, it might not have happened. Obama initially opposed "intervention," and, later called it the biggest mistake of his administration. But she pushed for it, hoping to claim credit for killing a well known cartoon villain during her campaign. Tens of thousands of other deaths were a small price to pay for her personal advancement.
Quote: Rigondeaux["Reflecting more than 20 years later on the spring of 1968 in an interview with a Wellesley alumni magazine, Hillary explained, �I stayed up all night � to talk students out of staging a Vietnam War protest that would embarrass our college.�
Yeah, Hillary was a Republican then, but I don't hold it against her.
And I'm glad Trump became a Republican because it's like the best thing that could happen to the Democrats to have him on the other side.
You like the false equivalencies, I see. Buying into Trump's rhetoric: "hey, I'll call Hillary corrupt so nobody will notice how corrupt I am, and my people will believe me because they're such suckers." It's not a remotely legitimate comparison. Hillary is not a perfect politician, but she is a skilled and qualified one. Trump is such a toxic ignoramus that many of his party mates can't support him. Trump's staff even had to take away his Twitter account.Quote: mikeabiomedExplain to me how so many Americans are so willing to give such an unrepentant and bald-faced liar a pass on his dishonesty. Has 40% of the nation collectively thrown up its hands and said "f**k it, we don't care anymore"?
Are you referring to Hillary? Touch���é (touche')
A vote for Trump is a vote for a petulant adolescent mind in the body of a junk-food-eating 70-year-old. He has the attention span of a dog who's about to notice a squirrel; he had to tell himself at a rally "stay on point, Donald." I'd sooner have my teenage daughter in the White House. At least she's matured past the point where she thinks she can do everything by herself and doesn't need anyone else's advice. It's bizarre that anyone could consider Trump a good candidate to lead anything. If you were hiring a new CEO for a company and found out your candidate acted the way Trump has been filmed acting, you'd burn his resume and keep looking. But so many people are willing to vote for him for President. I just do not understand that at all.
Quote: TrumpIf I decide to run for office I will produce my tax returns, absolutely.
(the timestamp link in the url doesn't work, forward to 1:25)
It's the eve of election day, so I guess we won't be seeing those tax returns after all. Too bad, now nobody can quantify exactly how much donation money he's run through his charities and used to pay for his business expenses.
Quote: MathExtremist
If you're going to tout Trump's allegedly-impressive record of running businesses or you'll have to peek under the rug and realize his business strategy primarily consists of suing and screwing. I wouldn't mind an honest, successful businessman in the White House, but I'd rather have an experienced policymaker. Trump is neither. He's "successful" in precisely the same way an armed bank robber is successful. He has lots of money, but he didn't make it. Some of it he "saved" by not paying people who worked for him, and most of it he inherited from his dad. As has been noted several times, just taking the equity of his father's business and putting it into an index fund would have yielded more money than he's actually made. Trump is less successful at managing his money than the typical IRA investor.
http://www.vox.com/2015/9/2/9248963/donald-trump-index-fund
That is absurd. You are not even calculating his extremely high maintenance lifestyle. That would be like me considering anyone unsuccessful because they do not have the first dollar and all dollars they were given or earned compounded to an index over the course of their entire life.
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/hillary-clinton-election-night-fireworks-cancelled-nypd-article-1.2862962
Fortunately, for Trump, he doesn't "need" an employer. He decided to run to give back to the average American what they've lost over the years of corruption. And, those people who decide to vote for him are not deplorable misfits of whom Hillary has described. Both sides have undesirable voters I'm sure you will agree. You also say Hillary is skilled and qualified. I have news, I wouldn't want my children or grandchildren to serve under her when it came to military decisions. And I have both in that age group! She has, without doubt, been a contributor of bad decisions which led to the deaths of many Americans and many more Middle Eastern societies, including Libya and Syria during her tenure as Secretary of State. Neither candidate is perfect, but only one shows strength and endurance and wouldn't sell America. Yes, he likes power, but certainly doesn't need the money she's sucked from other countries at our cost. Also, their energy levels clearly show how they've run their individual campaigns and clearly gives viable clues to how they would run the country as commander and chief.
Quote: MaxPenShe had a rally today in Allendale, MI and trapped 4600 students and faculty in a university auditorium. Trump is giving a speech in a few hours in Grand Rapids, MI just 15 miles away. Let's see how many show up knowing they won't get back home until midnight at least. Yet they are still selling that it's a close race.
Its really not that close
Michigan is meaningless
Its all about Florida
Latinos in Florida are voting in record numbers
Trump loses Florida and its game over
Quote: ams288This is my prediction for what the final map looks like:
Ohio, NC, and that one district in Maine are the biggest question marks for me.
The colors for Florida, North Carolina, Michigan, Nevada, and possibly Pennsylvania are wrong.
Quote: terapined
Latinos in Florida are voting in record numbers
Trump loses Florida and its game over
I think we all will be surprised at the outcome of the Latino vote.
Quote: MaxPenI think we all will be surprised at the outcome of the Latino vote.
Yes Repubs will be surprised at the poor numbers
Rommney got 27% of the Hispanic vote
Trump will get less the 20%
Therefore he loses Nevada and FL due to the Latino surge in voting
Quote: MaxPenQuote: ams288This is my prediction for what the final map looks like:
Ohio, NC, and that one district in Maine are the biggest question marks for me.
The colors for Florida, North Carolina, Michigan, Nevada, and possibly Pennsylvania are wrong.
No use arguing now. We'll know soon enough.
I was absolutely being opinionated (because, uh, I was giving my opinion) but there's nothing liberal minded at all about criticizing someone's shady business practices and bad financial management. Or do you think the stock market is "liberal minded" too? Here are two correlations between the S&P 500 futures and Hillary's chances of winning the presidency:Quote: mikeabiomedNo, I don't care for false equivalencies of rhetoric from either side of the aisle, however, when you go off on tangents as your second paragraph indicates, I look at your content as opinionated and quite liberal minded.
When in doubt, follow the money. Those who have it know Hillary is a better choice than Trump. Why? Trump is erratic and irrational, and markets hate nothing more than uncertainty. Just look at what happened over the past 36 hours: the FBI re-stated that Hillary shouldn't be prosecuted and the markets went up more than 2%. The headline on the WSJ was "Dow Jumps 371 Points After FBI Says It Won't Charge Clinton." You don't think the WSJ is a "liberal minded" paper, do you? And they're not endorsing Trump. In fact, yesterday they wrote: "Yet while this could be a 1980-like moment of economic renewal, Mr. Trump is no Ronald Reagan. The Gipper came to office with a coherent and firmly held world view formed by decades of reading and experience as a Governor. It isn't obvious that Mr. Trump reads anything at all. He absorbs what he knows through conversation and watching TV, and he has no consistent philosophy."
Criticism of Donald Trump's shady past and slimy business practices isn't liberal minded. If Bernie Sanders had screwed small businesses out of contractual payments, refused to rent apartments to African Americans, or walked into a teenage showgirls' dressing room because he owned the show, I'd be critical of him too. My politics has nothing to do with any of it. If you're willing to excuse the perpetrator of such crimes solely on the basis of their political party, shame on you.
Quote: mikeabiomedI wonder why the IRS has taken so long to complete his audit.
Donald Trump has never produced evidence that his taxes are actually under audit.
Quote:You may not like how he operates, but from what I've observed, he uses the tax laws Hillary could have changed while she was a senator in New York
This is the incredibly stupid argument that Trump used during the debates. The junior Senator from NY cannot alone change the tax code, especially under a Republican President (GWB).
Quote: ams288Quote: MaxPenQuote: ams288This is my prediction for what the final map looks like:
Ohio, NC, and that one district in Maine are the biggest question marks for me.
The colors for Florida, North Carolina, Michigan, Nevada, and possibly Pennsylvania are wrong.
No use arguing now. We'll know soon enough.
I was being kind and not asking you to change the color of New Hampshire and Wisconsin. :-)
Quote: MaxPenQuote: ams288Quote: MaxPenQuote: ams288This is my prediction for what the final map looks like:
Ohio, NC, and that one district in Maine are the biggest question marks for me.
The colors for Florida, North Carolina, Michigan, Nevada, and possibly Pennsylvania are wrong.
No use arguing now. We'll know soon enough.
I was being kind and not asking you to change the color of New Hampshire and Wisconsin. :-)
New Hampshire certainly has a better chance of changing color than Nevada, which Hillary has basically already won in the early vote.
Quote: mikeabiomed. Why do people assume "Latinos" vote only one way? I have "Latino" friends and they do not think alike. Therefore, Trump may or may not lose Florida or Nevada. In case you didn't know, my views overall run Independent..
I don't think Latino's just vote one way
Rubio will win in Florida and Trump will lose
Anybody besides Trump is the Republican nominee and you are probably looking at around 30% of the Latino vote for Republican President.
Probably more if Cruz or Rubio won
but
Trump has made it a point to insult Latinos. Paul Ryan used the word racist to describe Trumps views on an American judge with Hispanic roots.
My prediction 18% for Trump.
Do those on the right think I am way off, give me a number. No way Trump is beating Rommneys 27%
There are a lot of people in high places that love the current tax breaks and laws. Please don't think Trump is alone is this process. There you go again picking a Repub Pres on a non-partisan issue.
EXTREME TRUMP SUPPORTER: Trump will win in a landslide.
SANE PERSON: But every independent poll shows otherwise.
TRUMP SUPPORTER: The polls are rigged.
EXTREME TRUMP SUPPORTER: How can anyone vote for Lyin' Hillary, you can't trust anything she says.
SANE PERSON: Actually, fact-checking groups show that Trump lies WAY more than Hillary.
EXTREME TRUMP SUPPORTER: The fact-checking groups are rigged.
EXTREME TRUMP SUPPORTER: Hillary's a criminal and should be in jail.
SANE PERSON: But the director of the FBI says she didn't commit any crimes.
EXTREME TRUMP SUPPORTER: The system is rigged.
SANE PERSON: But the director of the FBI *is a Republican*!
EXTREME TRUMP SUPPORTER: He didn't charge Hillary, therefore the system is rigged.
EXTREME TRUMP SUPPORTER: The only way Hillary can win is if she cheats.
SANE PERSON: But polls have consistently shown her winning for months.
EXTREME TRUMP SUPPORTER: The polls are rigged.
- - - - - - -
If everything were truly rigged, then sane Republican politicians would be screaming about it. But they're not, because they know that's crazy.
And let's remember that not every Trump voter suffers from these delusions. Probably only about half of them do, but they're the most vocal so we get the impression that they're more representative of Trump voters than they actually are. But still, if about half the country supports Trump, and half of his supporters have lost touch with reality, then about 25% of the country has lost touch with reality. That tracks with polls that show that 29% of Americans and 43% of Republicans think Obama is muslim.
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/253515-poll-43-percent-of-republicans-believe-obama-is-a-muslim
Who has been in office and politics longer than my 36 year old son?
FBI director, although announcing Hillary's e-mails aren't an issue, is not finished with Hillary's/Clinton Foundation issues.
Polls may not be rigged, it's the Liberal Media bias that protects her from top to bottom.
There is nothing delusional about Trump's shady past, however, he was not in political office swearing to serve the American people while he wheeled and dealed.
Barack may or may not be a Muslim. He has been a strong sympathizer careful not to ruffle their feathers at the expense of innocent Americans.
Republicans are in bed with Democrats to have cushy jobs that produce little for the American people. Why are Senators and Congress exempt from the biggest shove down our throat hoax in history? ACA?
Quote: mikeabiomed.
Polls may not be rigged, it's the Liberal Media bias that protects her from top to bottom.
Its always blame the media
Where do you go for your news?
I go to google new aggregator.
I also check out other sites and views
Foxnews is always bragging about their ratings. Mainstream.
Bill O says he is the most important person in news. Mainstream
Breibart has been raving about the huge number of hits it gets. Mainstream
These are big new orgs.
if they lean right, I could care less. Yet if somebody leans left, you accuse them of protecting lol.
No doubt Breibart protects Trump and I am totally cool with it. I expect nothing less.
I read several sources, watch Fox, CNN and others less often. Google can be left oriented, not sure about new aggregator, I'll check it out.
Bill O' can be a pompous know it all interrupting condescending ass so I don't watch or support his show
I seriously try to grasp both sides of an issue and come out leaning middle right on most issues
Again, regardless of the election outcome, I do not wish to offend anyone's political preference as we are all Americans first.
We believe what we believe and that makes us unique and true Americans. It's called freedom. I just want it preserved for future generations.
Quote: MaxPenShe had a rally today in Allendale, MI and trapped 4600 students and faculty in a university auditorium. Trump is giving a speech in a few hours in Grand Rapids, MI just 15 miles away. Let's see how many show up knowing they won't get back home until midnight at least. Yet they are still selling that it's a close race.
Line over 2 miles long when doors opened. I'm gonna go ahead and call Michigan for Trump.
PA Trump 48%
Clinton 46%
FL Trump 49%
Clinton 46%
MI Trump 48%
Clinton 46%
GA Trump 51%
Clinton 45%
UT Trump 39%
Clinton 29%
NV Trump 49%
Clinton 45%
http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/08/politics/dixville-notch-results-2016/
He took the game to Mudville, then claimed that it was rigged
Calling opponents crooked, and ugly obese pigs.
He said he'd put America First, Only he could save the day
He would make America great, Sending some away.
The sneer is upon his lips, His teeth are clenched in Hate
He pounds with cruel violence, His bat upon the plate.
And now the voter holds the ball, And now he lets it go
And now the swing commences, And now the world will know.
And somewhere in this favored land, The sun is shining bright.
A band is playing somewhere and somewhere hearts are light.
And somewhere people are laughing. And somewhere people shout.
But there is no joy in Mudville. The mighty crazy has struck out.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/opinions/wp/2016/11/07/election-poem-with-conviction-makes-a-prediction/
Quote: TomGWe would have to repeal the First Amendment and it's annoying Freedom of the Press
Not at all. There is no reason that the Boards of Elections needs to release who has voted early. How is that a First Amendment problem?
I am kind of sad that all those celebrities will not have to carry out their threat to leave the country...I was rather interested in seeing them squirm when asked why they did not keep their promises to get out of town. Such threats are just stupid, and the media paying any attention to them is even more stupid. Heck, countries with enforced immigration regulations might not even let them in!!
I like Bruce Springsteen's music (and many other celebs) but I don't care how he votes; who any celeb votes for is one of the dumbest reasons anyone could ever give for voting for a particular candidate.
Here's what VoteCastr has to say on that topic:Quote: billryanNot at all. There is no reason that the Boards of Elections needs to release who has voted early. How is that a First Amendment problem?
Quote: VoteCastr.com35 years ago, legacy media organizations collectively agreed to withhold election day data from their audiences. They decided it was too dangerous for the public to handle. Politicians agreed with this, believing real time data and projections would keep voters away from the polls and skew the outcome.
These folks get to watch the game play-by-play, then only report the final score once it's all over. You don't.
VoteCastr believes that providing information and analysis coming out of key battleground states to the American public throughout Election Day will connect the electorate to voting in a new and very powerful way.
And the VoteCastr site is up now:
http://www.slate.com/votecastr_election_day_turnout_tracker.html
edit: Mods, can you please do something about this: �
Quote: SOOPOOShe asked me what ID she needed. She couldn't believe me when I told her that none is required. When I told her the dems think it is a plot to not allow poor Dems to vote she said that is the most ridiculous thing she has heard. I told her Hillary would strongly oppose requiring ID to vote. She still voted for Hillary.
You could hand deliver IDs to every eligible voter in the country and the Dems would still oppose having to show it on election day.
Quote: RonCYou could hand deliver IDs to every eligible voter in the country and the Dems would still oppose having to show it on election day.
100% false.
https://worldwide.vote/hillary-vs-trump/#/results/total
Quote: MaxPenVery interesting world wide poll. The muslims are definitely pro Hillary.
https://worldwide.vote/hillary-vs-trump/#/results/total
Well duh. Why on earth would they support Trump?
Quote: RSI don't understand why the libs think requiring ID to vote is racist.
Requiring ID isn't racist and wouldn't stop anyone from voting. And non requiring ID doesn't lead to rigged elections. Whichever side is willing to give something up in a compromise will get their way. But neither side would ever do that, because they know there is no value in doing so.
Until anything changes, you're still allowed to show your ID if you want to.
Quote: ams288100% false.
You 100% do not know if it is false or not. Your opinion may be that they would stop opposing it, just as it is my opinion is that they will oppose it no matter how easy they are made to obtain.
Quote: RonCYou 100% do not know if it is false or not. Your opinion may be that they would stop opposing it, just as it is my opinion is that they will oppose it no matter how easy they are made to obtain.
Nah, it's 100% false. Just an idiotic thing to say. If it were free and easy for everyone to obtain ID, of course Dems would support voter ID laws.
Unfortunately, the fact that it is not free and easy for everyone to obtain the IDs is the entire point of Republican-backed voter ID laws.
Righties will continue to pretend voter fraud is rampant without any evidence whatsoever, but everyone knows what they're really up to. The less people that vote = the better they do.
