darkoz
darkoz
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
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November 19th, 2021 at 7:56:45 AM permalink
Quote: Mission146

Just to be clear, my statements related to arrests were secondhand. I have also been 86íed for having other cards on me.

ADDED: My experience with this in PA was similar to that of DarkOz, except they were able to get ahold of people while I was there. Actually, they didnít even try to call the players card people, but made one phone call to someone who I shared a checking account with because the debit card associated with that account was in the other personís name.
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I suspect they didn't bother to call everyone because Mission doesn't go hard like I do.

It was in Pennsylvania I was caught using 28! Cards so I can see them finding it difficult to believe I had everyone's permission however it soon became clear they were being hit by a team.

I should also point out they had actually caught me twice inside the same casino. First, the casino said don't use other players cards but didn't ban me.

Since I wasn't banned but I knew they would follow me whenever I was in the casino I began using my now notorious masks. And I pulled over a month before the card activity made them realize they were still being hit. They kept getting fooled by the masks.

The same state trooper saw my mannerisms were the same and when he finally approached me asked me if I was related to Mr. Xxx (the trooper thought I was my father because I had an old man mask on.). Eventually in the backroom I took the mask off as I had to produce ID).

I still didn't get arrested for using other players cards not even for doing it wearing a mask!!!

Come on guys. It's just not illegal!
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MDawg
MDawg
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November 19th, 2021 at 8:13:36 AM permalink
If you tried to use someone else's player card to draw a marker you'd be in big trouble including with the law if caught, which you almost assuredly would be caught. Using someone else's card to play and give credit to the card holder, that is against casino rules, but probably not against the law. Drawing benefits off someone else's card without permission, obviously a theft against the law, with permission, again, against casino rules, but probably not against the law.

It's clear that the days of people using others' players cards and getting away with it for whatever purposes are numbered, but in the rinky dink casinos it might go on enough years that it wouldn't matter to most.

Machines are generally unmanned, which is why they try to police the misuse of player cards by requiring input of a PIN code. At the tables, most casinos do not require a PIN code (although, Resorts World Vegas, does), but your ID is already scanned into the system and appears on the pit boss' screen when the card is presented. These are the current measures employed to head off at the pass misuse of player cards but there are far more sophisticated measures coming.
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Marcusclark66
Marcusclark66
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November 19th, 2021 at 8:25:11 AM permalink
And of course it would be the security forceís fault not managementís or the patronís fault, you know.
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darkoz
darkoz
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
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November 19th, 2021 at 8:38:09 AM permalink
Quote: MDawg

If you tried to use someone else's player card to draw a marker you'd be in big trouble including with the law if caught, which you almost assuredly would be caught. Using someone else's card to play and give credit to the card holder, that is against casino rules, but probably not against the law. Drawing benefits off someone else's card without permission, obviously a theft against the law, with permission, again, against casino rules, but probably not against the law.

It's clear that the days of people using others' players cards and getting away with it for whatever purposes are numbered, but in the rinky dink casinos it might go on enough years that it wouldn't matter to most.

Machines are generally unmanned, which is why they try to police the misuse of player cards by requiring input of a PIN code. At the tables, most casinos do not require a PIN code (although, Resorts World Vegas, does), but your ID is already scanned into the system and appears on the pit boss' screen when the card is presented. These are the current measures employed to head off at the pass misuse of player cards but there are far more sophisticated measures coming.
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I would never take markers nor even use the card where I have to present ID (like picking up a comped toaster).

As for security measures in the future, sometimes they kill a play, often I find they open up more doors

Or as I like to say, "the casino shut the doors but opened the windows".
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SOOPOO
SOOPOO
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
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November 22nd, 2021 at 12:08:35 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz

Using another person players card WITH permission versus WITHOUT permission is about the same as driving another person's car WITH permission versus WITHOUT permission.

If you can't grasp why, it beats me
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You are too close to the situation to make a good analogy. How about this.... Using another person's prescription narcotics WITH permission versus WITHOUT permission..... You realize YOU do NOT have the right to give another person 'permission' to use YOUR prescription narcotics? It won't be theft, but it will be some other crime.....
In our society you do NOT have the inalienable right to give something you own to someone else. Guns would be another easy example.

I am NOT saying what you do is illegal, by the way. What I am saying is if I were the one making the laws it would be. Intentionally using a card issued to to someone else without the permission of BOTH the named entity AND the casino/store is FRAUD. Some sort of misdemeanor in the land of SOOPOO.
billryan
billryan
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November 22nd, 2021 at 12:39:18 PM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

Quote: darkoz

Using another person players card WITH permission versus WITHOUT permission is about the same as driving another person's car WITH permission versus WITHOUT permission.

If you can't grasp why, it beats me
link to original post



You are too close to the situation to make a good analogy. How about this.... Using another person's prescription narcotics WITH permission versus WITHOUT permission..... You realize YOU do NOT have the right to give another person 'permission' to use YOUR prescription narcotics? It won't be theft, but it will be some other crime.....
In our society you do NOT have the inalienable right to give something you own to someone else. Guns would be another easy example.

I am NOT saying what you do is illegal, by the way. What I am saying is if I were the one making the laws it would be. Intentionally using a card issued to to someone else without the permission of BOTH the named entity AND the casino/store is FRAUD. Some sort of misdemeanor in the land of SOOPOO.


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Would using someone's prescription inhaler with permission be a crime in Soopoolandia?
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unJon
unJon
Joined: Jul 1, 2018
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November 22nd, 2021 at 12:46:05 PM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

Quote: darkoz

Using another person players card WITH permission versus WITHOUT permission is about the same as driving another person's car WITH permission versus WITHOUT permission.

If you can't grasp why, it beats me
link to original post



You are too close to the situation to make a good analogy. How about this.... Using another person's prescription narcotics WITH permission versus WITHOUT permission..... You realize YOU do NOT have the right to give another person 'permission' to use YOUR prescription narcotics? It won't be theft, but it will be some other crime.....
In our society you do NOT have the inalienable right to give something you own to someone else. Guns would be another easy example.

I am NOT saying what you do is illegal, by the way. What I am saying is if I were the one making the laws it would be. Intentionally using a card issued to to someone else without the permission of BOTH the named entity AND the casino/store is FRAUD. Some sort of misdemeanor in the land of SOOPOO.
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I disagree that it should in any way be criminal, misdemeanor or otherwise. I can see it as a breach of contract claim for the casino against the person whoís player card it is, and against DarkOz if he has his own players card.
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mcallister3200
mcallister3200
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November 22nd, 2021 at 12:50:28 PM permalink
States have theft by deception laws. The fact itís never resulted in a conviction for that anywhere tells everything.
darkoz
darkoz
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
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November 22nd, 2021 at 12:51:37 PM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

Quote: darkoz

Using another person players card WITH permission versus WITHOUT permission is about the same as driving another person's car WITH permission versus WITHOUT permission.

If you can't grasp why, it beats me
link to original post



You are too close to the situation to make a good analogy. How about this.... Using another person's prescription narcotics WITH permission versus WITHOUT permission..... You realize YOU do NOT have the right to give another person 'permission' to use YOUR prescription narcotics? It won't be theft, but it will be some other crime.....
In our society you do NOT have the inalienable right to give something you own to someone else. Guns would be another easy example.

I am NOT saying what you do is illegal, by the way. What I am saying is if I were the one making the laws it would be. Intentionally using a card issued to to someone else without the permission of BOTH the named entity AND the casino/store is FRAUD. Some sort of misdemeanor in the land of SOOPOO.
link to original post



You are comparing controlled substances (ownership controlled by government for protection of citizen safety) such as guns and prescription drugs with uncontrolled substances like credit cards and casino cards.

The reason for sharing prescription drugs or guns is for safety of the general public. There is to my knowledge no such legal comparisons with fiduciary reasons.

I find a lot of people"think" this or that should be illegal when they simply aren't. I suppose this is one.
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MDawg
MDawg
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November 22nd, 2021 at 1:26:51 PM permalink
Quote: mcallister3200

States have theft by deception laws. The fact itís never resulted in a conviction for that anywhere tells everything.
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So you mean, in casinos? because theft by trick convictions are sustained all the time.
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