stabworld
stabworld
Joined: Mar 10, 2014
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July 17th, 2015 at 8:48:16 AM permalink
Great, thanks everyone for the advice.

Basically, all I'm trying to accomplish is starting over in all the casino's that already flat-betted me, or placed restrictions on my play, under a new card. I have a friend, who dosen't gamble, whatsoever, so he dosent care if the casino restricts or suspends his account if they were ever to find out. He agreed to sign up for players cards in all the casino's I need him too, and give me a duplicate of his drivers license to use when needed (mostly for checking into rooms.).

I just wanted to make sure that I could not be arrested for using another person's i.d. for these purposes. (checking into a room, or getting free meals, access to lounges, etc.) I'm not attempting to defraud the casino in an attempt to commit a crime, (as advantage play is not a crime), but just wanted to make sure that pretending to be another person and using another players account to get comps in a hotel and casino is not a crime in itself.

I do not plan to do this in any casino I was already 86'd or trespassed in, but rather, the casino's that simply flat-betted me or placed restrictions on my play. As that would probably have some additional legal ramifications on top of trespassing charges, I would think. Eighter way, I wouldn't want to find out.

Kewlj, mentioned that PA arrested somebody for this, (as a side note, I do not plan to this in any PA casino's,) it would be A.C., and possibly, haven't decided yet, in CT.
bigfoot66
bigfoot66
Joined: Feb 5, 2010
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July 17th, 2015 at 8:59:19 AM permalink
Quote: waasnoday

Taxable payouts will have more scrutiny than non-taxable payouts. The casino in most cases will require two forms of ID to claim the payout and if you won this while playing under someone else's card you may or may not be paid depending on the casino. If you were using the other person's card because you were trespassed then generally they will not pay out the win. If this is not the result of a trespass then you may have a better chance getting the payout. The IRS and FinCEN have been warning casinos of their current focus on casino compliance so do expect most establishments to be very sweaty in regards to any taxable payout.



Boy I find it hard to believe that they would not pay a legitimate win under any circumstances unless you were on the self exclusion list, and even then they typically have to donate the money to charity. Would it be smart for me to pull the card then, when I win, before an attendant shows up?
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zoobrew
zoobrew
Joined: Jan 12, 2015
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July 17th, 2015 at 9:15:45 AM permalink
Quote: stabworld

Great, thanks everyone for the advice.

Basically, all I'm trying to accomplish is starting over in all the casino's that already flat-betted me, or placed restrictions on my play, under a new card. I have a friend, who dosen't gamble, whatsoever, so he dosent care if the casino restricts or suspends his account if they were ever to find out. He agreed to sign up for players cards in all the casino's I need him too, and give me a duplicate of his drivers license to use when needed (mostly for checking into rooms.).

I just wanted to make sure that I could not be arrested for using another person's i.d. for these purposes. (checking into a room, or getting free meals, access to lounges, etc.) I'm not attempting to defraud the casino in an attempt to commit a crime, (as advantage play is not a crime), but just wanted to make sure that pretending to be another person and using another players account to get comps in a hotel and casino is not a crime in itself.

I do not plan to do this in any casino I was already 86'd or trespassed in, but rather, the casino's that simply flat-betted me or placed restrictions on my play. As that would probably have some additional legal ramifications on top of trespassing charges, I would think. Eighter way, I wouldn't want to find out.

Kewlj, mentioned that PA arrested somebody for this, (as a side note, I do not plan to this in any PA casino's,) it would be A.C., and possibly, haven't decided yet, in CT.



In one post you started you complain about how a casino mistreated you and held you against you will and now you are admitting to criminal activity to cheat a casino. Using someone's else drivers license is a crime.

http://www.njlaws.com/fraudulent_documents_to_police_and_government.htm
waasnoday
waasnoday
Joined: Jan 13, 2015
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July 17th, 2015 at 9:25:13 AM permalink
Quote: bigfoot66

Boy I find it hard to believe that they would not pay a legitimate win under any circumstances unless you were on the self exclusion list, and even then they typically have to donate the money to charity. Would it be smart for me to pull the card then, when I win, before an attendant shows up?



I am not sure pulling the card will accomplish very much. The software in use were I work will have all the data associated with the card until the card is removed. What that means is if you have won a payout with the card in then the payout is already associated with that card. Basically you would need to pull the card prior the win and if you are able to predict wins that well then get me those lottery numbers! In most cases they would probably payout the win and tell you to get your own card but some places are just really jumpy around their player club stuff.

One thing that may be partially driving the paranoia is there is some debate within the IRS on how to treat winning from e-credits/freeplay. Presently any win at $1200 and above requires reporting. Some in the IRS would like to see any win above $600 from e-credit/freeplay be reported. I think that may have some bearing on their pondering of lowering the $1200 limit to $600 but I have not been able to confirm that. So far the IRS has not required the casinos to track the $600 freeplay wins but it has come up in training sessions. The reasoning from the IRS is that wins from freeplay are basically promotional wins and thus should be reported at the promotional level of $600.
stabworld
stabworld
Joined: Mar 10, 2014
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July 17th, 2015 at 9:43:37 AM permalink
Quote: zoobrew

In one post you started you complain about how a casino mistreated you and held you against you will and now you are admitting to criminal activity to cheat a casino. Using someone's else drivers license is a crime.

http://www.njlaws.com/fraudulent_documents_to_police_and_government.htm




The title of the link you provided states "2C:21-2.1 Fraudulent Documents to Police and Government". From that title alone, I didn't even bother to read any further. Please tell me how this in any way relates to what I am asking in this thread?

1. I would not be using a fraudulent document. (it is a real i.d., not a fake i.d.)

2. I would not be presenting this i.d. to police or the government, but rather a hotel check in person, or a cashier at a casino store or casino eating establishment.
(I'm trying to deceive casino personnel, not the police or government. Casino employees are working civilians, not an official police authority or government. Big difference.) Obviously, any interaction with police, I would not try to portray myself to them as another person.

I am in actuality using the comp dollars I have personally earned through casino play, just under the guise of another players name.

Finally, I do not see what your point is when you say I complained in another thread about a casino mistreating me. What the casino did to me was illegal,. They committed a crime against me. They violated my civil rights - they kidnapped and detained me - they illegally searched and seized my property - they inflicted physical injury to me when illegally handcuffing me. What does one issue, have to do with another? I am not admitting to any criminal activity, I am simply asking for feedback to see if a certain act is illegal or not.
bigfoot66
bigfoot66
Joined: Feb 5, 2010
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July 17th, 2015 at 11:09:41 AM permalink
Quote: waasnoday

I am not sure pulling the card will accomplish very much. The software in use were I work will have all the data associated with the card until the card is removed. What that means is if you have won a payout with the card in then the payout is already associated with that card. Basically you would need to pull the card prior the win and if you are able to predict wins that well then get me those lottery numbers! In most cases they would probably payout the win and tell you to get your own card but some places are just really jumpy around their player club stuff.

One thing that may be partially driving the paranoia is there is some debate within the IRS on how to treat winning from e-credits/freeplay. Presently any win at $1200 and above requires reporting. Some in the IRS would like to see any win above $600 from e-credit/freeplay be reported. I think that may have some bearing on their pondering of lowering the $1200 limit to $600 but I have not been able to confirm that. So far the IRS has not required the casinos to track the $600 freeplay wins but it has come up in training sessions. The reasoning from the IRS is that wins from freeplay are basically promotional wins and thus should be reported at the promotional level of $600.



Thanks for the information :)
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Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
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July 17th, 2015 at 11:16:18 AM permalink
I see a few people pull cards on big draws or dealt 3oak's. Definitely see it a lot on slots when someone hits a bonus round or a bunch of free spins.
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zoobrew
zoobrew
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July 17th, 2015 at 11:29:06 AM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

I see a few people pull cards on big draws or dealt 3oak's. Definitely see it a lot on slots when someone hits a bonus round or a bunch of free spins.



But if your bonus/free spin win is pre-determined at the moment you hit the spin button, does it really make a difference as all the data from the player's card and slot win could already be collected even before you see the spin. I guess it would somewhat depend on the slot machine and the casino's network.
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
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July 17th, 2015 at 11:35:22 AM permalink
Quote: zoobrew

But if your bonus/free spin win is pre-determined at the moment you hit the spin button, does it really make a difference as all the data from the player's card and slot win could already be collected even before you see the spin. I guess it would somewhat depend on the slot machine and the casino's network.


True, but what casino is going to tell you the truth on how it works?
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GWAE
GWAE
Joined: Sep 20, 2013
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July 17th, 2015 at 12:15:19 PM permalink
Quote: stabworld

The title of the link you provided states "2C:21-2.1 Fraudulent Documents to Police and Government". From that title alone, I didn't even bother to read any further. Please tell me how this in any way relates to what I am asking in this thread?

1. I would not be using a fraudulent document. (it is a real i.d., not a fake i.d.)

2. I would not be presenting this i.d. to police or the government, but rather a hotel check in person, or a cashier at a casino store or casino eating establishment.
(I'm trying to deceive casino personnel, not the police or government. Casino employees are working civilians, not an official police authority or government. Big difference.) Obviously, any interaction with police, I would not try to portray myself to them as another person.

I am in actuality using the comp dollars I have personally earned through casino play, just under the guise of another players name.

Finally, I do not see what your point is when you say I complained in another thread about a casino mistreating me. What the casino did to me was illegal,. They committed a crime against me. They violated my civil rights - they kidnapped and detained me - they illegally searched and seized my property - they inflicted physical injury to me when illegally handcuffing me. What does one issue, have to do with another? I am not admitting to any criminal activity, I am simply asking for feedback to see if a certain act is illegal or not.



I didn't read everything that you wrote but using someone elses ID certainly makes it a fraudulent ID.

I actually believe it might be a violation of the patriot act which makes it a serious felony. I am at work and don't have time to look it up, I am going on memory.

What I am not sure about, is it illegal to use a "fake" ID to a business to obtain services that are not illegal. ie, using someone elses ID to obtain beer when the person buying it is actually underage.

If you present the "fake" ID to law enforcement then that is a completely different story than showing it to the hotel desk.

Curious how you would handle it when the pit boss pulls up your file and sees that the ID that is scanned into the computer is not you, or when the hotel person notices that it is not actually you?
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