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36 members have voted

EvenBob
EvenBob
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September 12th, 2011 at 11:23:45 PM permalink
Quote: rxwine

Assuming you don't have your wife tied up, sounds like a losing system to me.



She rarely goes, she can't afford it.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
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September 13th, 2011 at 1:39:39 AM permalink
I think gambling is most closely associated with the Catholic church.

Bingo, raffles, fairs, lottery tickets.

Now if you are asking about moral correctness, I see no difference between a church raffle that includes a Basket of Cheer or a Church sponsored Bingo Hall. The church pushes the raffle and the booze but only in some ancilliary building. The Bingo takes place in a separate hall. So casting lots directly in the church itself is avoided yet clearly the practices are condoned and even encouraged.

To the degree that a casino is alleged to "bleed the poor" I would assume that such allegations against the church are far more numerous and probably far more valid. I would think that churches constitute more of a neighborhood blight than a casino does. Churches attract poor people, crowds, create parking problems, create traffic jams and saddle neighborhoods with crosswalks, speed limits and noisy brats. Churches often ring bells and in other ways annoy neighborhoods whereas casinos merely exist in a neighborhood. Churches often host various support groups that focus on deviants. At most a casino provides pamphlets about one support group but does not house it.

I have no idea if it is true or not, but supposedly "men of the cloth" (No, I have no idea what cloth they are talking about) are supposed to lead exemplary lives as far as personal conduct goes. With all the pedophile allegations and tax fraud allegations I rather think that religious officials lead lives that are not much different than people who choose other businesses to work in. The fact that some churches ban social dancing is strange to me, but alot in this world is strange to me. The man who rose to the position of Chaplain of the Senate was a member of a church whose officials condemned movies. He went into a movie theater and found the film to be entertaining and good moral guidance for the young. So values do change and are by no means absolute.

Now what one priest does on his own time and on his own dime is hardly a matter of public discussion. Personally I would think that when it comes to sensible conduct shooting craps sure beats playing golf. I see no reason why someone can not pursue happiness as he sees fit. And I see no reason why the wearing of a unique collar referred to as clerical should prevent someone from entering a casino and playing a game of chance. His time, his dime. Frankly, I think casinos should be more concerned if a bank teller or bank executive is playing at a casino than if a priest is playing there.
EvenBob
EvenBob
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September 13th, 2011 at 1:54:01 AM permalink
Quote: FleaStiff

Now what one priest does on his own time and on his own dime is hardly a matter of public discussion.



Of course it is. What do you think the priesthood is, the Boy Scouts?
You go down that road, fully knowing whats in front of you. He wants
our 'permission' to do something he knows is not right. Whats wrong with
this picture.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
rxwine
rxwine
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September 13th, 2011 at 2:45:03 AM permalink
From what little reading I've done on this (which is just tonight) looks like the Catholics approach this as something which is acceptable on certain conditions which involve staying within certain boundaries of good behavior and practice.

"Thou shalt not gamble" doesn't appear to be one of big ten either.
The Hall of Unverified Claims is a vast place with many shelves.
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
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September 13th, 2011 at 2:54:02 AM permalink
I was raised a Protestant, so you can imagine my initial thoughts.

I really hope you would be able to do what you want with your free time, perhaps though you might have to realistically conclude this is not the case for you. My own feeling about it is that you could probably sit in on some poker games and get away with it, but probably should not be seen gambling in a casino.

Men of the cloth of all faiths have demonstrated that they are not immune to falling into Vice, so there would also be the same risk of excess that all gamblers need to be aware of. I seem to remember a recent story of an Illinois [or was it Iowa or Indiana?] priest going to jail for a while for pilfering Church funds to support his gambling. While I don't know, I actually wonder if it is similar to the risk of drug addiction for Doctors? The hubris of the thought that " I, a Doctor, am not going to get addicted to these drugs that I have so much access to because, well, I am a Doctor" has been cited as a factor for those folks. Can someone immersed in dealing with the sins of others feel that he is too trained to fall into sin himself, and actually thus become vulnerable to it? Gambling itself is no sin, but you know where I am going with this.

Just my thoughts.
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
Paigowdan
Paigowdan
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September 13th, 2011 at 3:33:17 AM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

OK, tell me how flushing your money down the toilet by giving it to the casino is productive.


It's the only form of entertainment where:
1. You can leave with more more than what you came in with. See it every night. No other form of entertainment provides this opportunity as its basis. Not guaranteed, but when you go to a show, a movie, a restaurant, etc., what is guaranteed there is that it can ONLY cost you money, and without the guarantee of having a good time.
2. It's more fun - entertaining - than many forms of entertainment.

Quote: EvenBob

Tell me how it advances careers...


Well, for starters: dealer -> floorman -> Pit Boss -> Shift Manager -> Casino Manager. This is along with other gaming professions like game designer, production manager, patent lawyer, and gaming mathematician. I wonder how the gaming industry advanced Mike Shackelford's career, Anthony Curtis' career, and Bill Zender's career. I know it advanced my own career. I love the feel of walking into a new car dealership's showroom and saying..."Yeah, I'll take THAT one."
Not to mention:
Hotel reservations, valet drivers, cocktail waitresses, workers at retail outlets at casinos, etc.
And of course:
Addiction Counselor -> Shift manager at a rehab -> Rehab Manager -> 12 step Self-help guru, etc.

and:
Quote: EvenBob

...or gives you a higher standing in the community.


A Shift Manager or Casino Manager has a lot higher standing in the community than most professions: Cab driver, cook, Bus driver, secretary, car wash attendant, etc. Forget about Being a Casinos OWNER....
At a cocktail party, would you rather answer a hot chick's question of "Well, handsome - what do YOU do?" with "Oh - I work at Pizza Hut!" or "I manage the Hard Rock Casino!"
Bob rants on Casinos and Casino workers, yet he rambles on here at a Gambler's forum, and probably gambles himself.

Gaming Industry? - One Great and Legitimate industry....
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
FinsRule
FinsRule
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September 13th, 2011 at 3:36:25 AM permalink
If a priest can have a beer, he should be able to gamble.

(I actually have no idea if priests can have beer, I'm not catholic) I think the comparison is good. You can be addicted to both, and both can be vices.

There shouldn't be as much of a stigma to gambling as there is. I'm surprised so many people on here commenting think that gambling is immoral. Yet, the poll says he should go. It's very interesting...
Paigowdan
Paigowdan
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September 13th, 2011 at 3:39:38 AM permalink
Quote: odiousgambit

While I don't know, I actually wonder if it is similar to the risk of drug addiction for Doctors? The hubris of the thought that " I, a Doctor, am not going to get addicted to these drugs that I have so much access to because, well, I am a Doctor" has been cited as a factor for those folks. Can someone immersed in dealing with the sins of others feel that he is too trained to fall into sin himself, and actually thus become vulnerable to it? Gambling itself is no sin, but you know where I am going with this.


The Standard Textbook of Alcoholics' Anonymous has a chapter in recovery called "Doctor, Alcoholic, Addict."
Edit: should a priest gamble? Yes. But I will add: "Skip ALL forms of cheating, shot-taking, and advantage play." Can you imaging a priest being backed off from card counting, being told "Sorry father, that kind of crap is o-u-t - OUT! Security will escort you out, - and go to confession on this one!" Card counting as verboten is a known casino ground rule for Blackjack - but okay for poker. I only feel it's a sin because it is a ground rule I have to enforce as a casino dealer.
Play Poker, dice, Pai Gow, Roulette, or even BJ by the casino's house rules.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
FrGamble
FrGamble
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September 13th, 2011 at 5:58:04 AM permalink
Some really good and interesting responses, to be honest I never thought EvenBob was going to thoughtfully prick my conscience.
To reiterate I am at peace with the idea of responsible gambling, as someone mentioned it is morally neutral, a form of entertainment that certainly can become a vice very easily but is not evil by its very nature. I have not taken a vow of poverty as a diocesan priest and do feel that I could play golf, collect baseball cards, take up a musical instrument, learn to fly, or gamble as hobby that costs money. Why I asked the question was to hear what other people would think about the idea, I thought to myself if the WoV forum has a problem with it my gambling days may be numbered.

One quick story from my seminary days. As a young seminarian I got in trouble because I started pushing to eliminate all alcohol from the seminary (remember I was young). Some of the guys would have a beer or relax with a drink at the end of the day. Nobody seemed to have problem with alcohol but I quoted 1 Corinthians chapter 8 to try to put an end to it. Instead of quoting the whole chapter I will paraphrase it: St. Paul says to the Corinthians, 'look many of you guys know that meat sacrificed to idols is just normal meat because there is no such thing as idols or gods plural, however there are some new Christians who have just left paganism who are not quite as sure as you. They see you hanging out in the pagan temple eating the meat and they are scandalized. So even though it is not a sin, for the sake of your brothers and sisters who have a problem with it, stop eating that meat - make a little sacrifice for them." Anyway this argument is coming back to me through your comments. I mentioned I got in trouble for pushing this issue because the rector of the seminary thought I was being too strict and taking Paul's argument too far. He worried that as a parish priest you want others to see you as human like the Lord, who also drank and was accused of being a drunkard. Now with my interest in gambling I'm wondering if I'm taking the rector's argument too far, I already love sports, like scotch, and smoke a nice cigar on occasion.
jsantee97
jsantee97
Joined: Mar 25, 2011
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September 13th, 2011 at 6:29:14 AM permalink
Quite honestly I am annoyed by everything EvenBob had to say on this topic. I personally see no problem with you gambling recreationally as long as you gamble within your means. I know friends that golf, a hobby that I don't have, who spend way more than I could lose gambling. If that is the way you spend your money to relax and enjoy yourself who is to say it is right or wrong? Of course there will be people who are naysayers, but who are they to judge you when I am sure you do not judge them.

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