jaspa
jaspa
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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November 23rd, 2009 at 8:40:35 PM permalink
Wizard, I agree. I was very skeptical when she told me this.
Croupier
Croupier
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November 26th, 2009 at 5:22:19 AM permalink
As to controlling the spin, with enough practice some form of control is probably possible. However there are too many factors both deliberate(the metal hazzards on the wheel) and unintentional such as bounce that make any form of true control extremely improbable.

I have been dealing for 2 years. I can spin away from the area I am in, or keep a similar spin in the same area, however I cannot do this with enough consistency,
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Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
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November 26th, 2009 at 6:33:21 AM permalink
Quote: Croupier

As to controlling the spin, with enough practice some form of control is probably possible. However there are too many factors both deliberate(the metal hazzards on the wheel) and unintentional such as bounce that make any form of true control extremely improbable.

I have been dealing for 2 years. I can spin away from the area I am in, or keep a similar spin in the same area, however I cannot do this with enough consistency,



You wouldn't have to get it in the right half every time. As long as you could be right over 52.8% of the time a player knowing which half to bet on (covering the 19 numbers in that half) would have an advantage. What percentage do you think you could achieve?
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
Joined: Nov 9, 2009
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November 26th, 2009 at 7:24:50 AM permalink
Croupier vis a vis Dealer. What makes you one or the other?

sorry, should have been a new thread
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
DealerJ
DealerJ
Joined: Nov 16, 2009
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November 26th, 2009 at 6:38:47 PM permalink
Quote: odiousgambit

Croupier vis a vis Dealer. What makes you one or the other?



You mean, what word should one use? Croupier is a french word but it has been spread to non-French speaking countries. Most new players will call me a croupier, although the portuguese word is "pagador" (ie, "payer" - someone who pays winning bets. way to look on the brightside,huh?). Some costumers, usually younger, will call me a "dealer" - using the english word. That is probably picked up from the poker world, because, for some reason, portuguese poker players and media have taken a liking to the english term.
I believe I read somewhere that, in the english-speaking world, a croupier is specifically the guy who deals roulette, but I can't remember where I read it, so treat this as speculation.

As for controlling the spin, I have tried it. The only thing I ever tried was to make the ball land roughly on the same spot where it began. Although there was a time where I believed I could do this, I must say I once hit the same number four times in a row without even trying, so any claim of success from my part would be purely anecdotal. I must say I still try, though, for good players. Even if it won't help them, it will never be worse than pure randomness, right?
Wizard
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Wizard
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November 26th, 2009 at 8:58:55 PM permalink
Quote: Dealer

I must say I once hit the same number four times in a row without even trying, so any claim of success from my part would be purely anecdotal.



When I did my Four Queens review I noticed the number 24 hit four times in a row. You can see a picture of the board in my review.

Agreed, if you were controlling the spin, but the player didn't notice, then the odds would be the same, as long as you randomized where to decide where to put the ball, or the player randomized what to bet on.

About croupier/dealer, in Vegas I hear "croupier" about roulette and craps dealers once in a blue moon, but never for other kinds of dealers. We Americans tend to avoid using foreign words, unless there is no good English equivalent. Maître d' for example.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Croupier
Croupier
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November 26th, 2009 at 9:13:19 PM permalink
I chose to call myself a croupier as it sounds far more swish and sophisticated than dealer.

As for the roulette, if its quiet on sunday i will try a little experiment, to see how consistant I can be. Will let you know the results.
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DealerJ
DealerJ
Joined: Nov 16, 2009
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December 4th, 2009 at 8:25:34 AM permalink
Ok, so on Monday night, I get a regular at my table. I know this guy is not a particularly live one, but it's fun to deal to him, as he's always in a good mood, even when he feigns he's upset about losing. I decide to try and give him some money, as I know he likes to play zero and neighbors (we only have single-zero tables here). He plays for about 20 spins. In all of these, I try to control the ball. I manage to give him something in 13-15 of those, including two 12s (a number he is particularly fond of). After I spin blanks for two times in a row, he decides to stop and I know he leaves with two €1k plaques in his pocket (confirmed afterwards by the girl at the cage), a nice return for his initial €500 buy-in.

And now for the fun part: after he leaves, I'm left with just one costumer (apart from the low-stakes even money bettors), who likes to place his chips when the ball is spinning. This guy never even uttered a word while at my table, let alone tipping. I drop all my concerns about spin control and just throw the ball as fast as I can to give him time to wager all he wants. These were the numbers that hit: 12, 12, 12, 3.
The first costumer comes back from the cage, looks at the display and his jaw just drops. "Is that real?", he asks. "Well, yes, sir", after which he just shrugs.

This is worth what it is worth (20 spins is not really a valid sample size). As you might have suspected from my previous post, I am skeptical that I or any other dealer can really control the ball to an extent where betting in a series of numbers would become profitable in the long run. That said, I'll keep trying.
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
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December 4th, 2009 at 10:17:55 AM permalink
Quote: DealerJ

"Is that real?", he asks. "Well, yes, sir", after which he just shrugs.

Now if only you had replied "Yes, sir. I didn't notice you had left and so I kept giving you twelves."
Then the myth would have been re-inforced in their minds.
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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December 4th, 2009 at 2:58:21 PM permalink
Quote: Croupier

I am a dealer in England. anyone wanting to ask anything about working in a casino, or anything at all, ask away, and ill be more than happy to help in any way I can.

I think the Wizards sites are fantastic, so this is my attempt to try and contribute to the further success of the site.



Hello Croupier, thanks for the offer which I will take you up on. I have been considering trying to become a dealer at a sort-of local "racino" here. I figure (and have been told) that after a few years of that I can go most anywhere. Any advice on a casino carer is appriciated. Some things I'd like to know:

1. How long did it take you to really get the hang/flow of the job? I've been dealing monte-carlo nights a year or so which equates to say 60 hours of "live" dealing, such as that is. Now, I definately felt better after doing it a few times and people even ask "are you a real dealer?" But I also know doing it for fun and under casino procedures is going to be different. So, how long would you say it took you to really get comfortable?

2. One reason I would like to get into the business is I love the casino atmosphere and the games. As I think you said, being a dealer is a cheaper way of doing that. But I don't want to turn cards for the next 25 years, either. What is your opinion on the career path a (college educated) dealer can take?

I have more but don't want to to take all of your time. Perhaps Wiz can add a forum on "casino career chat?"
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others

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