There Is No God

Quote: FrGamble

That should clear things up.

Don't fight the filter, padre. You can't win...

Funny, nobody commented on my Byron Katie passages. Guess no one had anything to say about what she says. I was looking forward to reading people's comments on them.

:'(

Quote: HotBlonde

Funny, nobody commented on my Byron Katie passages.

Thats because this thread is a pissing contest, silly...

Quote: HotBlonde

Funny, nobody commented on my Byron Katie passages. Guess no one had anything to say about what she says. I was looking forward to reading people's comments on them.

:'(

It's a lot o' text. It takes me a minute to marinate and metabolize it into thought. My first thoughts are usually emotionally based keying in on inconsequential snipets and are of little use. Second thoughts are idea fragments that don't make much sense in conversation. Third thoughts are where things get better.

Kind of like Bob's home filter vodka. There more times I run it through, the easier to take the finished product. Time will tell if it works; sometimes Mr Boston is just Mr Boston.

Quote: FrGamble

I disagree strongly with the thought that my Jesus filter through which I view everything blocks out things that would be challenging or uncomfortable for my faith. In fact I don't have anyone blocked and am happy to listen to all of the many arguments against God, often perdictable, tired, false, and old as they are.

I also resent the implication that I am not able to think for myself or change my mind. I am not a robot answering these questions or making these comments if you don't believe me:
1100011001000001010101010000101101010011001001110001010101010101000011111100101010101110101000010101
0100101101001001001011110110010101001010001010110010100010101001010000000001011111010010100101001010
010000101010100100101001001100100010101111100100101101010101

That should clear things up.

Thanks, Father! All I meant to say was that once you've committed your entire life on this earth to being a priest, everything else follows along with it.

Quote: EvenBob

But I wasn't using it as a metaphor, that[']s the difference.

Oh, then suppose that i weren't doubting your highness, our Lord, Bob. Try it the next time as you ponder on the smallest granule of (discrete) time.

Quote: FrGamble

I also resent the implication that I am not able to think for myself or change my mind.

Don't worry about it, only Bob can go a way he doesn't go!

Quote: FrGamble

I am not a robot answering these questions or making these comments if you don't believe me...

Another run-on sentence?

Quote: EvenBob

Thats because this thread is a pissing contest, silly...

The strategy of the weak... invite the strong "all in", asap.

Arguing with a cleric about whether there is a god is like wrestling with a pig; you'll get dirty, and the pig loves it.

There's a ridiculous show on History right now called Proving God.
Its so boring and convoluted, I'm about to switch it off.

I watched for an hour, what a load of speculation and no evidence.
Bah Humbug..

There is no Bob.

If there was a God He would take away this terrible stomach ache I've had all day. :(

I spent the last 2 weeks recovering from an injury and just when I'm up and ready to have my first super-productive day I'm ailed with these terrible pains in my gut. I'm really thinking it has a lot to do with all the Ramen noodles I've eaten over the last week or so. Eckh. People were nice to come over and bring me groceries while I was recovering but I think I overdid it with the noodles. Now I need someone to come over and rub my belly.

Careful, Hot Blonde, you are liable to get posters on this board who accept your invitation. Or perhaps they will fly you to some Vegas spa and tell you they are ready to commit. I'm glad you are not praying that God take away your stomach ache and give it to your enemies. Of course we can have the various "Men of the Cloth" chime in here with requests that you spend your Pepto-Bismol money on donations to their churches.

Quote: TheNightfly

There is no Bob.

Even Bob knows this.

Quote: FrGamble

1100011001000001010101010000101101010011001001110001010101010101000011111100101010101110101000010101
0100101101001001001011110110010101001010001010110010100010101001010000000001011111010010100101001010
010000101010100100101001001100100010101111100100101101010101

In case anyone was wondering, this translates to:
ÆAUS'UÊ®¡T´’öT¢²Š”
})JB©)2+äµ
via this converter, although I had to delete the last 0101 to make it divisible by 8.
http://www.roubaixinteractive.com/PlayGround/Binary_Conversion/Binary_To_Text.asp

Not clear at all.

Quote: FleaStiff

Careful, Hot Blonde, you are liable to get posters on this board who accept your invitation. Or perhaps they will fly you to some Vegas spa and tell you they are ready to commit. I'm glad you are not praying that God take away your stomach ache and give it to your enemies. Of course we can have the various "Men of the Cloth" chime in here with requests that you spend your Pepto-Bismol money on donations to their churches.

Well funny enough my stomach is better but my back is aching really bad so now I need someone to come rub my back instead. Is there a doctor in the house? I'm in pain and it's not fun. I'm out of my pain killers and muscle relaxers and fear that unfortunately I'm going to have to go back to the ER tomorrow and see the doc once again. I wish I was better now cuz it's been about 2 weeks since I've been injured and I haven't been able to get much done and I don't want any more days of down time. This really sucks. :(

I don't know the nature of your injury, but generally speaking, one of the best things you can do is to stretch.

I do yoga and pilates, and it keeps my back problems pretty much in check.

Don't be a couch potato, get moving: to save it, you've got to work it.

Quote: MrV

I don't know the nature of your injury, but generally speaking, one of the best things you can do is to stretch.

I do yoga and pilates, and it keeps my back problems pretty much in check.

Don't be a couch potato, get moving: to save it, you've got to work it.

Yeah I probably should've gone on daily walks but I didn't. I was told to do back-strengthening exercises but I didn't do any. When you're in pain the last thing you want to do is move the part that's causing you pain in the first place. I guess I'll need to start exercising. Ever since I gained weight I've developed issues with my back and my knees. No bueno. :(

I'm a doctor. Just not the sort you need.

But one of my best friends is an evil nurse, and she will bull people who've been injured into getting their injured areas moving again as soon as possible. it is the last thing you want to do, but doing it is part of the healing process. Or so she claims.

Good luck with the exercise. Took a lot to get me back into a routine, but just a nightly walk started me going again... no couch to 5k programme, just got moving again (with some inspiration from the South Beach diet book and a major kick up the arse from the doctor).

Quote: progrocker

ÆAUS'UÊ®¡T´’öT¢²Š”
})JB©)2+äµ... Not clear at all.

It means, don't give up your God-given right to be a "sucker".

Quote: thecesspit

I'm a doctor. Just not the sort you need.

Damn! I was even willing to settle for a love doctor.

Penn Jillette's doesn't make it fact. Do some research. Also I've seen a video in the past year of Penn rethinking his position.

Quote: rpw612

Penn Jillette's doesn't make it fact. Do some research. Also I've seen a video in the past year of Penn rethinking his position.

Link? I didn't find one, and I looked pretty hard. And there are recent hits (last few weeks) where his position is unchanged. And his book, God, No! just came out in late August.

I'm a fan of the magic, and I like the debunking of spirit stuff. But all in all I don't like making a living smirking at people, in any case.

Quote: Mosca

But all in all I don't like making a living smirking at people, in any case.

There is no money in unveiling the man behind the curtain.

The big bucks belong to those who construct the curtain and maintain the illusion: just ask the Pope.

Quote: HotBlonde

Damn! I was even willing to settle for a love doctor.

Never settle! Never compromise your ideals :)

Quote: thecesspit

Never settle! Never compromise your ideals :)

I agree!

I am in the process of setting and starting to work on my 5 year goals. I'm really super excited to see how my life is going to unfold over the next several years. Really excited. I'm reaching for the stars and I have a feeling I'm going to have to keep reminding myself not to give up or get discouraged but to really believe and strive for what it is I want to accomplish in my life. Since this is a thread about belief, I think your self and your goals are truly something to believe in!

Quote: HotBlonde

I think your self and your goals are truly something to believe in!

Careful, the padre says we can't possibly by happy
or fulfilled without a strong belief in god. How dare
you try and lift yourself up.

Quote: HotBlonde

I agree!

I am in the process of setting and starting to work on my 5 year goals. I'm really super excited to see how my life is going to unfold over the next several years. Really excited. I'm reaching for the stars and I have a feeling I'm going to have to keep reminding myself not to give up or get discouraged but to really believe and strive for what it is I want to accomplish in my life. Since this is a thread about belief, I think your self and your goals are truly something to believe in!

I've set my own 40 before 40. I don't expect to achieve them all. I expect to achieve plenty of them though, and a lot of the fun is the doing, not the achieving.

"When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." - Reiner Knizia.

One of my favorite all time quotes is, "Shoot for the moon and you will fall amongst the stars!" It does my heart good to hear HotBlonde and others setting goals and believing in themselves. We should all believe in ourselves, after all we are each unique and loved into existence. We are made in the image and likeness of God. The more we believe in ourselves and accomplish good and wonderful things the more we can clearly see that we are not meaningless and purposeless sacks of whatumacallit.

Religion is all about seeing yourself as an awesome person full of dignity, beauty, wonder, and greatness. It is this kind of idea about ourselves that would lead us to set goals and reach for the stars! In my opinion it sounds like atheism is all about seeing yourself as nothing special just another something that we don't know why or how exists and in the long run isn't much more important than mold or a dolphin. It is this kind of idea about ourselves that would ask what's the point of goals?

You go girl - believe in yourself, don't give up, and always keep striving! We believe in you and God believes in you too!

Quote: FrGamble

In my opinion it sounds like atheism is all about seeing yourself as nothing special just another something that we don't know why or how exists and in the long run isn't much more important than mold or a dolphin.

EXACTLY! How in the world can you be more important
than a dolphin or a bear or a dust mote? Its the height
of conceit if you think you are. Religion is all about conceit,
about thinking you're 'special'. Mark Twain said something
like, 'the biggest joke on mankind is he thinks god sits up
nights worrying about him'. Its not so much that religious
people believe in god, its the conceit that they think god
believes in them.

Quote: thecesspit

...a lot of the fun is the doing, not the achieving.

"When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." - Reiner Knizia.

I plan on reminding myself, as well, to experience and enjoy the ride along on the way. This reminds me of a scene from a really amazing movie called "Peaceful Warrior" where Nick Nolte's character takes the main character, a college kid, on a long hike up a mountain to show this kid something really special. They climb all day and the kid gets weary and Nick's character is like, "Well, this is it, this is what I wanted to show you." And he taps his foot on a medium-sized rock. The kid is like, "What?!?! We climbed all the way up here just for THIS?!?!?! It's a stupid rock! Are you kidding me?" (I'm adlibbing all of this). And Nick's character is like, "What do you mean? You were so happy all day all the way up here in pursuit of this thing." It's cooler in the movie becuase the whole movie is about stuff like that, a lot of philosophical stuff. One of my favorite movies.

Quote: FrGamble

In my opinion it sounds like atheism is all about seeing yourself as nothing special just another something that we don't know why or how exists and in the long run isn't much more important than mold or a dolphin.

I've noticed more than once that you make these grand assumptions about atheism. Again, at least as I understand it, to be an atheist simply means, and I mean SIMPLY, that they don't belive that there's a god. Religious people believe there's a god. Agnostic people aren't sure whether there is or whether there isn't. Atheist people believe that there is no god. To say that "In my opnion it sounds like atheism is all about this or that or that atheists do this or don't do that, or that atheists could never this or that, or etc. etc." is just going over board. An atheist believes that there is no God creator. That's it. And just cuz atheists don't believe in a god doesn't mean that they can't live a life of enjoyment or fulfillment or have no end purpose in setting goals while spending time alive.

And I do thank you for your encouragement. I don't want to sound like I am just negating you.

Quote: EvenBob

How in the world can you be more important
than a dolphin or a bear or a dust mote? Its the height
of conceit if you think you are. Religion is all about conceit,
about thinking you're 'special'.

I do agree with Bob here, in general, not from a purely atheist standpoint. Religious people do think that humans are special, that we are above all the animals (and I know that there are even Bible quotes that support that belief), that there is this magnificent God up in the air who loves each and every one of us no matter what we do, that we are the only species in existance who are chosen to spend eternity in heaven with him after we die. This really is pure conceit. I am special to me and that's it. If others think I'm cool then that's great too but I don't need them to think I'm cool or special. Even if someone falls in love with me I can never truly feel their love for me but just my own experience of love in my own heart. If I'm eaten up by a mountain lion, it would be wrong for someone to say, "What a shame." It's not a shame, that's life. The lion was supposed to eat me. And my life was no more valuable than his life. We're all doing our things on this planet and that's it. Humans have the wonderful and unique capacity to set and achieve goals. I choose to do that becuase I get excited to think of all the things I can accoplish and do and be and see and have and etc. And just purely for the joy of it. There doesn't need to be a higher purpose.

Native cultures around the planet instinctively understand
they are no better and no more 'divine' than the animals.
They often say thanks to the animal they kill for giving up
its life for them. I heard somebody say the other day that
'if there ain't no dogs in heaven, I ain't goin'.. Amen to
that, brother. French president Charles DeGaulle once said,
'I've been in the company of people, and I've been in the
company of dogs. I prefer dogs.'

Quote: HotBlonde

To say that "In my opnion it sounds like atheism is all about this or that or that atheists do this or don't do that, or that atheists could never this or that, or etc. etc." is just going over board.

If he were to make blatant generalizations about Black
people, he'd be called a racist. If I were to say all priests
are pedaphiles, or all priests are women haters, he'd be
very offended. Yet its just fine to constantly make sweeping
remarks about atheists, like we aren't individuals with our
own thoughts and ideas, just because we don't believe in god.

If you remember a few posts ago you wrote

Quote: EvenBob

EXACTLY!

it no longer seems to be just my opinion, in your opinion too it sounds like you agree. All I'm saying is that when you remove the idea of a creator God you are left with the consequences and one of the many logical consequences are that lions, tigers, and bears and human beings are all of the same value. While I still think this is crazy, sad, and detrimental to society I am glad that it seems like I finally understand something about atheists that at least two people here agree with me on.

Religious people have the audacity to claim that human beings are special. Atheists have the meekness to claim that we as humans are no more special than a dog. This all reminds me of one of my favorite prayers, "Lord, help me to be half the person my dog thinks I am."

Well even though Bob agreed that that is an atheist belief, that we are all equal to all other things in existance, it's not an atheist-specific belief. I'm sure many atheists do believe this. And at the same time I'm sure there are atheist Ku Klux Klan members who think that the white man is superior to all creatures and all other races. So again, even though Bob was saying that that is an atheist belief I don't necessarily agree with that cuz even on the flip side I'm sure there are atheists who do believe that we are superior to other animals for reasons that don't have to do with believing it cuz "God" says it's true. Human intelligence makes us superior in a lot of ways but I don't think it makes us superior intrinsically. A jaguar sure has me beat in the speed category. And even though I don't believe in the delusion that we as human beings are superior to all other animals and things on this planet I, at the same time, do eat meat. So what does THAT mean?

Quote: FrGamble

Religious people have the audacity to claim that human beings are special. Atheists have the meekness to claim that we as humans are no more special than a dog.

Audacity? Don't you mean conceit, smugness, and vanity?

Meekness? You think its meek to consider your fellow creatures
on earth as your equals? I can only imagine what heaven must
be like. No animals, they're undeserving. Just a bunch of swollen
headed egotists like the padre here, patting themselves on the
back for eternity at how clever they are. And people wonder why
I'm an atheist..

Quote: HotBlonde

And even though I don't believe in the delusion that we as human beings are superior to all other animals and things on this planet I, at the same time, do eat meat. So what does THAT mean?

A lot of the meat we eat would also eat us given half
a chance, it all works out. Just because you eat a creature
doesn't mean you don't respect it. Look at the American
plains Indians, they had a respect for the buffalo that
was the same as their respect for their fellow man. They
'got it', they understood the underlying relationship between
man and the rest of the creatures on earth. Something
the ego worshiping, man/god worshiping Christians will
never understand.

Speaking of God (or lack thereof) what do you think of this...

Who is it?

Quote: EvenBob

Who is it?

The virgin mary.

Here's the link:
Pregnant 'Virgin' Mary

The poster was destroyed and here's a snipet from the article:

"Arthur Skinner, a member of an organisation calling itself the Catholic Action Group, who described the Renaissance-style picture as "satanic", was photographed attacking it."

Violent behavior, all in the name of God and Catholicism, eh?

Why are people upset? Its very clever, a virgin finding
out she's pregnant would be in shock. How about Joseph,
his wife is pregnant and they never had sex? Who did
he try and kill..

Quote: EvenBob

I can only imagine what heaven must
be like. No animals, they're undeserving.

Here is a beautiful image of Heaven from the prophet Isaiah (chap. 11):

Then the wolf shall be a guest of the lamb,
and the leopard shall lie down with the kid;
The calf and the young lion shall browse together,
with a little child to guide them.
The cow and the bear shall be neighbors,
together their young shall rest;
the lion shall eat hay like the ox.
The baby shall play by the cobra's den,
and the child lay his hand on the adder's lair.
There shall be no harm or ruin on all my holy mountain;
for the earth shall be filled with knowledge of the LORD,
as water covers the sea.

Quote: HotBlonde

I've noticed more than once that you make these grand assumptions about atheism. Again, at least as I understand it, to be an atheist simply means, and I mean SIMPLY, that they don't belive that there's a god. Religious people believe there's a god. Agnostic people aren't sure whether there is or whether there isn't. Atheist people believe that there is no god. To say that "In my opnion it sounds like atheism is all about this or that or that atheists do this or don't do that, or that atheists could never this or that, or etc. etc." is just going over board. An atheist believes that there is no God creator. That's it. And just cuz atheists don't believe in a god doesn't mean that they can't live a life of enjoyment or fulfillment or have no end purpose in setting goals while spending time alive.

... Thank you for stating what I was thinking. FrGamble will make any excuse to decide what Atheists believe, and however many times he's told he's wrong, he'll repeat the same "theories". It's rather tiring.

Quote: FrGamble

for the earth shall be filled with knowledge of the LORD,

The earth? I thought this was supposed to be about heaven.
Oh, wait, its one of those pasages that nobody knows the real
meaning of, so you can make up whatever you like.

Quote: thecesspit

.. FrGamble will make any excuse to decide what Atheists believe, and however many times he's told he's wrong, he'll repeat the same "theories".

Its very much like racism. He has all these preconceived
ideas about atheists, and he sticks to them no matter
what is said.

Quote: thecesspit

... Thank you for stating what I was thinking. FrGamble will make any excuse to decide what Atheists believe, and however many times he's told he's wrong, he'll repeat the same "theories". It's rather tiring.

This time I was proved right! Come on man give me a break.

No you weren't. You are lumping everyone together.

That's like me stating it seems that Christians believe that blood transfusions are unholy.

They don't.

I was simply saying that if you do not believe in a creator God then one of the consequences would be that all of creation is equal in value or equal in non-value. This was agreed to by at least two atheists on the forum. The result stems directly from what I take to be the basic tenet of atheism (there is no God) and seems logical because how can you put real intrinsic value on anything if it is all random. This was no sweeping statement or conflating of ideas just an observation based on atheism. I can see how it would make one uncomfortable and I imagine most atheists would like to back away from this conclusion for lots of reasons but I don't think it is an unfair or incorrect statement.

I think blood transfusions is a strange example because it does not follow from the central tenets of Christianity, but you could say of Christians that their belief in a creator God forces them to think that a human being is of such value that every human person is worth more than all the stars of heaven to God. You would be correct.

Quote: FrGamble

I was simply saying that if you do not believe in a creator God then one of the consequences would be that all of creation is equal in value or equal in non-value. This was agreed to by at least two atheists on the forum. The result stems directly from what I take to be the basic tenet of atheism (there is no God) and seems logical because how can you put real intrinsic value on anything if it is all random. This was no sweeping statement or conflating of ideas just an observation based on atheism. I can see how it would make one uncomfortable and I imagine most atheists would like to back away from this conclusion for lots of reasons but I don't think it is an unfair or incorrect statement.

I think blood transfusions is a strange example because it does not follow from the central tenets of Christianity, but you could say of Christians that their belief in a creator God forces them to think that a human being is of such value that every human person is worth more than all the stars of heaven to God. You would be correct.

I'm frustrated. Can you tell?

Quote: FrGamble

We are made in the image and likeness of God.

A god that we invented so of course we're going to look like Him (with the notable exceptions of the Flying Spaghetti Monster and Invisible Pink Unicorn).

Quote: FrGamble

Religion is all about seeing yourself as an awesome person full of dignity, beauty, wonder, and greatness.

Actually, you don't need religion for all that, just a healthy awareness of self. As a matter of fact, if you toss out the whole religion part, it's that much more significant because all of that beauty and greatness comes from within you and not bestowed magically upon you by some invisible friend who lives on a cloud.

Quote: FrGamble

In my opinion it sounds like atheism is all about seeing yourself as nothing special just another something that we don't know why or how exists and in the long run isn't much more important than mold or a dolphin.

Your opinion is duly noted yet completely and embarrassingly wrong.

Quote: FrGamble

It is this kind of idea about ourselves that would ask what's the point of goals?

Thanks for knocking down your own poorly constructed straw man.

Quote: FrGamble

You go girl - believe in yourself, don't give up, and always keep striving! We believe in you and God believes in you too!

Ahura Mazda, Zeus, Elohim, Jehovah, Odin and the Flying Spaghetti Monster believe in you equally as much. Strive, achieve improve, not for some invisible sky being, but because you want to for yourself, your family, your friends, your fellow tangible human beings who are here and now and in the future.

Quote: FrGamble

We are made in the image and likeness of God.

Well then, this "god" character must be an exceedingly handsome and clever fellow.