There Is No God

Quote: Wavy70

If you believe in God you Believe in God. If you don't believe in God you don't believe in God. If God exists it does not matter.

Well, that isn't true at all!

"IF" god exists, and "IF" those who don't profess a sincere belief in god during their lifetime are in fact found wanting and consigned to Hell on judgement day ... you bet it matters.

Of course, that is a BIG "IF."

Speaking of Scientology, godlessness, and now introducing the newsworthy subject of Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes' divorce:

being Tom Cruise

"I contend we are all atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." -Stephen F Roberts

Quote: aceofspades

"I contend we are all atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." -Stephen F Roberts

Holy Crap! What a great quote. Its so loaded I have
to think which parts I'm going to use.

Billboard in Boise:

WongBo, here's a pic of an Ogopogo. Now are you a believer?

Sandwich?

I take it all back. There ia a God and He speaks to us through a graven image.

God is surely Here. At some point or other i believe it and feel it. Have a little trust, may be that make you believe his existence and works for you. Give a try.

Quote: casinomegamall

God is surely Here. At some point or other i believe it and feel it. Have a little trust, may be that make you believe his existence and works for you. Give a try.

Thats just gas from the heavy lunch you had. Give
it a minute, it'll pass..

"Quotes"

"God is dead"
- Nietzsche

"Nietzsche is dead."
- God


here

There are always those that believe in geocentrism - Earth is the center of the universe and does not move.

Galileo was wrong


WOW, just WOW

Go tell the authors to explain what happens when you flush a toilet.

Hah! That's a actually a myth.

Ok, well tell the authors how to explain a low pressure system on a map, then.

Quote: aceofspades

There are always those that believe in geocentrism - Earth is the center of the universe and does not move.

Galileo was wrong


WOW, just WOW

They are half right... Galileo was wrong... his model of the solar system was a poor relation to Kepler's.

Some would say there is no proof gravity even exists.

Row, row, row your boat, gently down the stream.

Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, life is but a dream.

Quote: MrV

Row, row, row your boat, gently down the stream.

Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, life is but a dream.

May the "Flying Spaghetti Monster" be with you....Ramen

Quote: onenickelmiracle

Some would say there is no proof gravity even exists.

When I read this I fell up laughing.

Quote: Buzzard

When I read this I fell up laughing.

Some would say we actually live in a 2D universe.

Humans are like the roommate that eats someone else's leftover take out.. They don't know who put it there, have no regard and still make the decision to do whatever to it, and hope whoever did put it there forgives them when they get back..

Quote: TheWolf713

Humans are like the roommate that eats someone else's leftover take out.. They don't know who put it there, have no regard and still make the decision to do whatever to it, and hope whoever did put it there forgives them when they get back..

Can't say I've heard that one before, but I like it. It sounds like good homily material, thanks Wolf!

I highly recommend this series of articles:

http://www.tracinskiletter.com/2013/01/homer-bible/

It's in a subscription site, but the link above is free.

Quote: s2dbaker

I wish I could write like this: permission slip

This took me a long time to read, not because I'm a slow reader but because I couldn't get very far without several intermissions for cracking up laughing. The more I read the more I lost it, tears welling, face turning purple and going into uncontrollable laughter.

Quote: rpw612

Without free will there can't be salvation. Choices by man, not God cause problems. All the best.

Free will is a myth both in and out of the Bible. No serious reading of the people yields the conclusion that free will exists.

Quote: IvanYerkanoff

Quote: s2dbaker

I wish I could write like this: permission slip

This took me a long time to read, not because I'm a slow reader but because I couldn't get very far without several intermissions for cracking up laughing. The more I read the more I lost it, tears welling, face turning purple and going into uncontrollable laughter.

David Thorne is funny. I have his site bookmarked.

I've been tooling around gambling message boards for a chapter in my new book and I just got here. I posted on the Craps section and the conversation was quite good. This section's (There is no God) posts were terrific.

I loved what I read here. With the exception of some sarcastic comments, the posters were serious and smart and it was evident that a lot of thought went into what they were saying. I have to say I loved FrGamble because despite the fact that his voice was in the distinct minority, he had a reasoned, relaxed approach to the discussion. The guy is smart but there were plenty of his antagonists who were just as smart.

Okay, here is where I stand on all the issues being discussed.

I believe in God.
I don't believe in God.

I believe in the new theories that the universe came from (the new definition of) "nothing." (Some good books out there about this concept.)
I believe before there was time, space, matter there was God.
I believe that such an idea as that is idiotic since where did such a God come from?

I believe that man needs a daddy and mommy (Mary) to feel comfort in the world which is (the bottom line) ultimately cruel and deadly to us all.
I believe that we should be adults when we are adults and put aside the things of childhood like needing a mommy and daddy.
I believe the characters in "The Big Bang Theory" love comics and superheroes because these beings give us comfort in a world that is deadly. They are the new mommies and daddys that take the place of God.
I believe there are no superheroes.

I believe religion is the opiate of the people.
I believe used properly opium feels damn good, although it could kill you.

I believe there is evil in the world.
I believe that life is mean, brutish, bloody and short and mankind is right in the mix of it all. Evil is just a word we use to describe life's ultimate impact on us.
I believe good can be evil and evil can be good.

I believe God is omnipresent, omnipotent, omniscient.
I believe those three words are meaningless even if you think they have meaning. All powerful? Can he make a rock he cannot lift? Two mountains next to each other without a valley? Free will when he knows exactly what you'll do even if you don't know it?
I believe in Free Will.

I believe that I love reading science books, philosophy books, books about the world's religions.
I believe I have learned a lot from these books.
I believe the more I have learned, the less I know for certain.

I believe I am so confused now that I wish I were back in my 20's, a comfortable atheist, or back in grammar school, a comfortable Catholic.

Confusion is my new religion but I will not evangelize it.

Quote: IvanYerkanoff

Quote: s2dbaker

I wish I could write like this: permission slip

This took me a long time to read, not because I'm a slow reader but because I couldn't get very far without several intermissions for cracking up laughing. The more I read the more I lost it, tears welling, face turning purple and going into uncontrollable laughter.

Yep, he's a gifted writer. Wonder where that comes from?

Quote: bbvk05

Free will is a myth both in and out of the Bible.

God gave us free will so that HE might have it too! That's the reason that, "No serious reading of the people yields the conclusion that free will exists," and much more... that HE doesn't seem to exist to us.

HE is, thereby, by HIS own grace, totally free of us to make the MOST of LIFE. Call it the art of really buggering off (without contradiction).

Quote: FrankScoblete

I believe I am so confused now that I wish I were back in my 20's, a comfortable atheist, or back in grammar school, a comfortable Catholic.
.

I knew you were a Catholic long before I got to the
end of your post. They get you at such an early age
and fill your head with such utter claptrap that you can
never be truly rid of it. I thank god my parents
didn't give a damn about religion, its one less thing
I have to deal with.

Some Native American tribes believed wherever you are
is the center of the universe. The would choose a tree,
form a circle around it, and that was the center of the
universe and where they did their ceremony.

Good enough and plenty mystical enough for me...

Often times, people that were bullied or unfairly singled out in either middle school or high school by someone in authority or by other students will claim to be an atheist as a way to show defiance towards society, towards the people that they feel have "wronged" them, and sometimes, even God. It's should be of no surprise, that many of these people are autistic as well. Other people have been through some truly horrific crisis personally, involving a close friend, or family member.

Sometimes, to find out if someone is truly an atheist, you must wade through a great deal of rebelliousness and some other antisocial issues before you will find out what that person actually believes. I've come up with a series of questions (below) that you can ask someone to help you gain insight into whether that person is truly an atheist, just agnostic, or a believer, without having to wade through many of the social issues.

(The order in which you ask the questions below will sometimes change the answers that you receive.)

1. Do you believe that humans will one day succeed in creating "life"?
2. Do you believe that there could be life elsewhere within the universe?
3. Do you believe that there could be an alien civilization more advanced than humans, elsewhere within the universe or multiverse?
4. Do you believe that such an alien race might attempt to engineer new life forms, attempt terra forming other planets, or possibly an entire universe within the multiverse?
5. Do you believe in God?


-Keyser

Quote: Keyser

(The order in which you ask the questions below will sometimes change the answers that you receive.)

1. Do you believe that humans will one day succeed in creating "life"?
2. Do you believe that there could be life elsewhere within the universe?
3. Do you believe that there could be an alien civilization more advanced than humans, elsewhere within the universe or multiverse?
4. Do you believe that such an alien race might attempt to engineer new life forms, attempt terra forming other planets, or possibly an entire universe within the multiverse?
5. Do you believe in God?
-Keyser

All your questions will reveal about a person is they
watched too many episodes of Star Trek: The Next
Generation on TV. Every episode was about one of
your questions, it seems.

Quote: EvenBob

I knew you were a Catholic long before I got to the
end of your post. They get you at such an early age
and fill your head with such utter claptrap that you can
never be truly rid of it. I thank god my parents
didn't give a damn about religion, its one less thing
I have to deal with.

If by "claptrap," you mean the kind of higher thought that precludes things like mindless regurgitation of motivated Enlightenment historiography and the self-affirming lazy methodology that birthed it, the mad and short-sighted teleology that goes with it*, the dismissal of any idea the minute you catch whiff of paradox, using minute fragments of larger arguments to represent the whole as if rejecting the concept of context, and of course saying things like "random walk is just a theory."

In particular, the whole Bill O'Reilly thing, people thinking that Bill doesn't realize scientists have strong hypotheses for how the moon physically formed, or even that he believes all these hypotheses are wrong - all I can think is "what's wrong with you? Can't you see that's not what he's saying at all?" I have to say it's almost willful ignorance, aggressively missing the point... and unnecessarily, since at the end of the day, it's a very stupid point that they're propping up by their self-righteous misinterpretation to anyone who cares to know their ass from their elbow (which fortunately for them, is always less of their audience than one would hope).

I would say that the ultimate nature of the universe is not personal, and to be able to say that sentence is a good enough definition of atheism for me. There are probably a lot of people who would be atheists by that definition whom most would consider polytheists, but that's not really relevant. I know a lot of things people describe as gods certainly exist in some form, however many of them probably don't, so if, say, Athena has been hiding around somewhere for the past few thousand years, what would anyone's worldview change if she were discovered? It would lead to some very interesting questions about biology, but if she weren't connected to some godhead, it would change fairly little, no more than aliens landing.

I would say that free will does exist, because I'm not exactly sure what it would mean for it not to. Human actions and will are both determined by material causes, and one affects the other, so what else is there? And what if the soul is immaterial? If it's to be accepted that it could be, then it is or isn't, and if it isn't, it isn't and the concept of free will becomes material, whereas if it is, then it most likely brings free will with it. Maybe there's an immaterial soul and no free will, but there probably isn't an immaterial soul at all, and nearly everyone who says there is one claims free will, so what does that hypothetical matter? And other than that, when is there not free will?

(*The first two don't necessarily mean you, nor the bit about Billo.)

Quote: thecesspit

They are half right... Galileo was wrong... his model of the solar system was a poor relation to Kepler's.

Also Tycho's, which was geocentric and in use at the time, among scholars, over Ptolemy's... that one seems to disappear from the narrative for some reason...

Quote: Keyser

1. Do you believe that humans will one day succeed in creating "life"?
2. Do you believe that there could be life elsewhere within the universe?
3. Do you believe that there could be an alien civilization more advanced than humans, elsewhere within the universe or multiverse?
4. Do you believe that such an alien race might attempt to engineer new life forms, attempt terra forming other planets, or possibly an entire universe within the multiverse?
5. Do you believe in God?

As suggested in my response to EvenBob, even if such a race created us (an absurd thing to assume without evidence), as long as there's a multiverse outside them, I wouldn't consider them gods in any real sense. But I'm sure you're just kidding, especially about the autism thing.

Quote: EvenBob

Some Native American tribes believed wherever you are
is the center of the universe. The would choose a tree,
form a circle around it, and that was the center of the
universe and where they did their ceremony.

Still plenty of people who think this way. Usually they end up on the cover of People(R) Magazine.

Quote: 24Bingo

But I'm sure you're just kidding, especially about the autism thing.

You must be new here =)

Quote: 24Bingo

If by "claptrap," you mean .

I mean the kind that makes people go thru life
wracked with guilt and keeps them going to
church because of that guilt, so they can keep
the coffers full. That's the claptrap I meant.

Quote: 24Bingo

But I'm sure you're just kidding, especially about the autism thing.

Regarding "the autism thing": Actually no, I'm not. There's some research that also backs up my statement. I believe that much of it has to do with the antisocial issues that are largely related to autism.

Regarding Evenbob's view, I can easily see that a social component is likely involved. The rebelliousness, the cynical tone and view that's often found within his posts, etc...

-Keyser

Quote: Keyser

The rebelliousness, the cynical tone

-Keyser

That doesn't come from too much Star Trek, its
too much Ozzie and Harriot and Father Knows
Best when I was a kid..

Touché!

Quote: Keyser

Touché!

Those shows told me life was going to be totally
different than the way it really is. I became bitter
and disillusioned as a result.

Quote: EvenBob

That doesn't come from too much Star Trek, its
too much Ozzie and Harriot and Father Knows
Best when I was a kid..

Waltons, My Three Sons, Leave it to Beaver, Ozzie and Harriot, Father Knows Best, Lassie.....etc......I'm just coming to realization that life is NOT what was depicted in those corrosive T.V. shows.

Quote: treetopbuddy

Waltons, My Three Sons, Leave it to Beaver, Ozzie and Harriot, Father Knows Best, Lassie.....etc......I'm just coming to realization that life is NOT what was depicted in those corrosive T.V. shows.

You're just now realizing it? It hit me about 1980
or so. I'm still not over it..

Quote: EvenBob

You're just now realizing it? It hit me about 1980
or so. I'm still not over it..

the dreaming is finally over for me.....the months seem like days.......I'm going to the horse track, hope I break even because I can afford to lose.....

Quote: treetopbuddy

the dreaming is finally over for me.....the months seem like days.......I'm going to the horse track, hope I break even because I can afford to lose.....

Can't afford to lose....whatever

Quote: treetopbuddy

Waltons, My Three Sons, Leave it to Beaver, Ozzie and Harriot, Father Knows Best, Lassie.....etc......I'm just coming to realization that life is NOT what was depicted in those corrosive T.V. shows.

Dude, you've been watching the wrong shows ...

confession

Art really does imitate life.

Kind of off topic, but there's really only one great TV show these days and it's the Big Bang Theory.

deleted

Quote: FrankScoblete

I've been tooling around gambling message boards for a chapter in my new book and I just got here. I posted on the Craps section and the conversation was quite good. This section's (There is no God) posts were terrific.

I loved what I read here. With the exception of some sarcastic comments, the posters were serious and smart and it was evident that a lot of thought went into what they were saying. I have to say I loved FrGamble because despite the fact that his voice was in the distinct minority, he had a reasoned, relaxed approach to the discussion. The guy is smart but there were plenty of his antagonists who were just as smart.

I'm still excited that Frank Scoblete, who I think is a great author, thought my posts were good. Thanks man and thanks for your books.

Let me just say that on this special day I hope you don't mind me trying to fill your minds with the 'claptrap' that God loves you, forgives you, and offers to you eternal life! God Bless and Happy Easter!