Celebrate Religion here
Quote: AxelWolfAll I know is Frgambke called me an atheist . That's a personal insult. However I do not wish any purgatory bestowed on you. I never said I don't belive in a god I just asked some questions. I admit I lean towards knowing whatever god you believe in is not real.
Axel,
I don't think FrGamble meant that as an insult, more as a basis for you understanding one another's positions for further conversation. It would be perfectly fair for you to correct his misunderstanding rather than being offended, but that's up to you, of course. My opinion as a fellow traveller in that thread; I could be wrong.
Quote: rxwineKilled by lack of faith or what? Or God decided to take him home? Or he made a bad bet?
Killed by lack of brains.
Quote: AxelWolfI never said I don't belive in a god I just asked some questions.
A-ha! Something only an atheist would do....you're busted!
Quote: FrGambleThought I would share this quote from Keith Ward:
"If there is a root of evil that became a terrifying force that almost brought the world to destruction in the first half of the twentieth century, it is the anti-religious ideologies of Germany and Russia, North Vietnam and North Korea. It takes almost willful blindness to invert this historical fact, and to suppose that the religions that were persecuted and crushed by these brutal forces are the real sources of evil in the world."
Nazi Germany was far from atheist along with constant mention of army uniforms of God Hitler spoke at length in Mein Kampf of doing the work of the Lord and of the Supreme Creator. For instance "by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord" or "I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator." or "But if out of smugness, or even cowardice, this battle is not fought to its end, then take a look at the peoples five hundred years from now. I think you will find but few images of God, unless you want to profane the Almighty. " and there are countless other quotes from Mein Kampf about how Hitler feels he is doing the work of God. Then we have statements like,
"The Catholic Church should not deceive herself: if National Socialism does not succeed in defeating Bolshevism, then Church and Christianity in Europe too are finished. Bolshevism is the mortal enemy of the Church as much as of Fascism. ...Man cannot exist without belief in God. The soldier who for three and four days lies under intense bombardment needs a religious prop. "
- Adolf Hitler in conversation with Cardinal Michael von Faulhaber of Bavaria, November 4, 1936
It is ridiculous to say Hitler is anything but Christian and it is ridiculous to say Nazi Germany wasn't Christian. You might be able to argue some of the people were not Christian but Hitler clearly was as was the bulk of Germany at the time.
I could be agnosticQuote: paisielloA-ha! Something only an atheist would do....you're busted!
GOOGLE is now our god.
NO! that's an involuntary compliment for your better insight than his.Quote: AxelWolfAll I know is Frgambke called me an atheist . That's a personal insult.
I would be outraged if anyone called me anything other than atheist.
Quote: rudeboyoiCan you be serious about being agnostic or does the very definition of being agnostic make it impossible to be serious about it?
You'd have to show me a definition of agnostic that can't be taken seriously. I seriously consider myself to be agnostic in acknowledging the existence of a Higher Power/God without accepting the tenets of any organized religion. And I know quite a few people who are of a similar mind.
Quote: BuzzardIs agnostic the religion of cowards ? Just asking, not starting trouble. I would never do that !
I would say agnostic is the religion of those who are not afraid to think for themselves. Rene Descartes (Cogito ergo sum), and all that.
Quote: kubikulannNO! that's an involuntary compliment for your better insight than his.
I would be outraged if anyone called me anything other than atheist.
It is impossible to be an atheist. That would mean you are an all knowing being, one that knows that there is no all knowing being existing in the universe.
Quote: DeMangoQuote: kubikulannNO! that's an involuntary compliment for your better insight than his.
I would be outraged if anyone called me anything other than atheist.
It is impossible to be an atheist. That would mean you are an all knowing being, one that knows that there is no all knowing being existing in the universe.
Atheists reject the idea of a deity. You accept the idea of a deity. Neither knows, but we believe. Same is same.
Quote: FaceQuote: DeMangoQuote: kubikulannNO! that's an involuntary compliment for your better insight than his.
I would be outraged if anyone called me anything other than atheist.
It is impossible to be an atheist. That would mean you are an all knowing being, one that knows that there is no all knowing being existing in the universe.
Atheists reject the idea of a deity. You accept the idea of a deity. Neither knows, but we believe. Same is same.
The real miracles are changed lives. Ask Lennie's father, a few pages back. (If possible)
Quote: DeMangoThe real miracles are changed lives. Ask Lennie's father, a few pages back. (If possible)
Like a lost boy falling victim to every drug imaginable, broke, strung out, nearly homeless, totally helpless, on the cusp of death, somehow finding his way back to become an upstanding individual, loving father, and model employee? Like that type of changed life?
Quote: FaceLike a lost boy falling victim to every drug imaginable, broke, strung out, nearly homeless, totally helpless, on the cusp of death, somehow finding his way back to become an upstanding individual, loving father, and model employee? Like that type of changed life?
It's a miracle for sure. But I give credit to the man that boy became, not any GOD !
Quote: rudeboyoiCan you be serious about being agnostic or does the very definition of being agnostic make it impossible to be serious about it?
Agnostics do not believe one way or another whether a god or gods exists. However, having that stance can certainly be held strongly.
Agnostics strike me as those "on the fence". That's not a put down, rather, it seems a very logical position to hold. The evidence both for and against a god or gods can certainly look shaky at times, so why cast all your eggs into one or another uncertain basket? You can very strongly say "I don't know" and wish to not be pushed one way or the other.
Should not the last word in that sentence start with the letter C ?
Quote: BuzzardIt's a miracle for sure. But I give credit to the man that boy became, not any GOD !
Thanks, Buzz =)
Miracles just seem like interpretation to me. Much like the smell of rotting fish makes some gag, yet it fills me with peace. And just as maybe DeMango sees a miracle in Kravitz's father, I see the effects of a dying brain.
Fish are neither disgusting nor soothing. But thinking makes it so =)
Quote: Buzzard' so why cast all your eggs into one or another uncertain basket?"
Should not the last word in that sentence start with the letter C ?
There are no uncertain caskets. There's one for all of us, and into them we all shall go. All of us too soon, all of us before we're ready. Time's ticking; make the most of yours =)
This is actually deism (if you just say "some Superior Being(s)") or theism (if you go into "one creator God"). Agnosticism is more like scepticism: I don't know so I don't acknowledge anything.Quote: beachbumbabsI seriously consider myself to be agnostic in acknowledging the existence of a Higher Power/God without accepting the tenets of any organized religion. And I know quite a few people who are of a similar mind.
In practical terms, an agnostic would take life like an atheist, while a theist would do it like a Christian/Jew/Muslim/whatever. A deist, I don't know. May as well be animist or pantheist.
Quote: FaceLike a lost boy falling victim to every drug imaginable, broke, strung out, nearly homeless, totally helpless, on the cusp of death, somehow finding his way back to become an upstanding individual, loving father, and model employee? Like that type of changed life?
I did that without a god.
Being a Christian will not prevent you from dying in a car accident driving down I-95.
Being a Christian will not prevent your daughter from getting molested by a neighbor's friend.
Being a Christian will not make you financially rich, poor, smarter, or dumber.
So, all of the crap about the preacher dying by snakebite, by the sins of priests, is all a bunch of just that: crap. We believe through faith alone. We are saved through God's grace alone. We are all sinners.
Being a Christian will change how you live your life, using selected lessons from the bible.
Being a Christian will change how you treat others, using selected lessons from the bible.
Being a Christian will change how you react to events in life and around the world, because you have the strength of God behind you.
Quote: boymimboHaving faith in the Lord and believing in the vision that Jesus died on the cross, was resurrected, and died for our eternal foregiveness of sins is really the central tenet of Christianity.
Being a Christian will not prevent you from dying in a car accident driving down I-95.
Being a Christian will not prevent your daughter from getting molested by a neighbor's friend.
Being a Christian will not make you financially rich, poor, smarter, or dumber.
So, all of the crap about the preacher dying by snakebite, by the sins of priests, is all a bunch of just that: crap. We believe through faith alone. We are saved through God's grace alone. We are all sinners.
Being a Christian will change how you live your life, using selected lessons from the bible.
Being a Christian will change how you treat others, using selected lessons from the bible.
Being a Christian will change how you react to events in life and around the world, because you have the strength of God behind you.
In the sense that Christ was an extremely wise teacher and His guidance has led me in many ways through my life, I am a Christian, using selected lessons from the Bible, as you suggest. I am also a Buddhist, a Confucian, and even in a few things, a Mohammedan and Jewish; there is a lot of value in the Sacred writings of all of those. But adhering to any sect, lock stock and barrel, nope. Not gonna happen.
Kubli is probably more correct in calling my personal philosophy Deism. However, part of my skepticism about organized religion is a healthy respect for the possibility that there is no Higher Power. I believe there is, but haven't ruled out the idea that we are intelligent ants and just about as important in the whole biosphere of possibilities, and that everything just HAPPENED from among all random combinations of base matter into a carbon-oxygen rich environment over untold amounts of time. As an eternal student, I don't expect to know in this life. But the journey's a blast.
Funny you'd write that.Quote: beachbumbabsAs an eternal student, I don't expect to know in this life. But the journey's a blast.
Actually, when a kid, the main reason I had for hoping in afterlife was the horrible idea that there could be questions that would remain forever unanswered. So, my image of Paradise was, essentially, that we'd get all the answers by then.
Now I am wiser, and must accept that death is the end and those answers will never be coming.
So, let's enjoy life as it lasts, by making it the journey to a maximum of answers.
If morons want to believe absurdities because they can't face reality, well... there is no law against being a moron, isn't it?
Quote: MoscaI did that without a god.
As did I. Unless God looks over his lost children, too, which I'm sure He does, so...
J/K, congrats to us both =)
Quote: kubikulann
If morons want to believe absurdities because they can't face reality, well... there is no law against being a moron, isn't it?
There's no need for the insults. There are many who preach or follow the word of Christ here. Few if any are morons nor do they deserve such a jab.
Are there moronic religious folk? Yup, sure as night doth follow day. There's Christian morons, Hindi morons, Sihk morons...and, of course, no shortage of atheist and agnostic morons. What view you hold is immaterial. If a Christian is a moron, converting to atheism does not fix his moronicity ;)
The older I get, the more I feel religion should be spared the hate toward it. Yes, there are examples beyond count of atrocities done "in the name of religion". But those weren't done by religion, those were done by weak people. I find it harder and harder to blame religion for Westboro brand hatred. I imagine if religion was stricken from memory, those same, hate filled people would find another reason to hate. Religion is the excuse, not the cause (IMO). I suppose you could say my feelings toward religion are starting to align with my pro-gun stance.
Just as the fact there was no fox and were no grapes doesn't prevent me from learning a lesson from Aesop's Fables, so too does the fact that I think God does not exist prevent me from learning lessons contained in scripture. To shun it all is to live in a darker world.
Quote: FaceAgnostics do not believe one way or another whether a god or gods exists. However, having that stance can certainly be held strongly.
Agnostics strike me as those "on the fence". That's not a put down, rather, it seems a very logical position to hold. The evidence both for and against a god or gods can certainly look shaky at times, so why cast all your eggs into one or another uncertain basket? You can very strongly say "I don't know" and wish to not be pushed one way or the other.
Agnosticism comes in a range of flavors. One is simply "I don't know whether the Judeo-Christian God exists" and another is "I don't know whether any deity exists," noting that there is a big distinction between any general deity and the biblical Lord. For example, the FSM is very clearly not the biblical Lord, and an agnostic would point out the seeming contradiction in denying the former but affirming the latter. In any event, in both cases a weaker agnostic would believe the evidence is simply not there for the evaluation, but should evidence arise, it could be evaluated.
A stronger form of agnosticism is the theory that not only is the question of God (or any other deity) unknown but it is unknowable/untestable. In other words, no evidence for a deity is possible. It's a subtle distinction but it leads to a pretty big difference in philosophy.
Quote: FaceAs did I. Unless God looks over his lost children, too, which I'm sure He does, so...
There's no need for the insults. There are many who preach or follow the word of Christ here. Few if any are morons nor do they deserve such a jab.
Are there moronic religious folk? Yup, sure as night doth follow day. There's Christian morons, Hindi morons, Sihk morons...and, of course, no shortage of atheist and agnostic morons. What view you hold is immaterial. If a Christian is a moron, converting to atheism does not fix his moronicity ;)
The older I get, the more I feel religion should be spared the hate toward it. Yes, there are examples beyond count of atrocities done "in the name of religion". But those weren't done by religion, those were done by weak people. I find it harder and harder to blame religion for Westboro brand hatred. I imagine if religion was stricken from memory, those same, hate filled people would find another reason to hate. Religion is the excuse, not the cause (IMO). I suppose you could say my feelings toward religion are starting to align with my pro-gun stance.
Just as the fact there was no fox and were no grapes doesn't prevent me from learning a lesson from Aesop's Fables, so too does the fact that I think God does not exist prevent me from learning lessons contained in scripture. To shun it all is to live in a darker world.
Thank you. Yes, I am a Christian. I was raised as such and as I went through University and got my degree in Astronomy and Physics, I took a more agnostic view. I found it difficult to reconcile the existence of a Christian God with what I've learned through science. Certainly there are stories in the bible that don't confirm with the scientific or archaeological record.
I've been going to church now every Sunday (when I am in town) for the past eight months after being absent for a good 30+ years. Spiritually, it's done a great deal of good for me in ways that are unexplainable. My pastor is an amazing fellow. From my perspective, I think happiness on earth is linked strongly to a strong spritual life, be it Christianity, other religions, Mother Earth or Karma.
When I sit in church, I think sometimes that everything the people are doing might be for naught. But it makes you feel better. You're part of a community of like-minded people. The church I go to offers hope, encourages charity and mindfulness -- nothing wrong with those things. These things can be achieved as well via friendship and meditation as well.
I'm not going to look down on the athiests and agnostics on this site. However, I do encourage everyone to experience some spirituality in their life, perhaps a realization that there are things that you can do to feel better, completely on your own, without having to rely on money, friends sex, alcohol, surroundings, or drugs to achieve that feeling. Start with meditation and mindfulness.
Quote: FaceThere are no uncertain caskets. There's one for all of us, and into them we all shall go. All of us too soon, all of us before we're ready. Time's ticking; make the most of yours =)
Quit reminding me OK Every time I Google some old friend, up pops an obituary. Bad as when I worked at AT&T in 1969.
Way back then people actually wrote things down on paper. REALLY. So when I had to do a callout in West Virginia, had to use old log books. Nothing like waking up a widow and 3 am and asking for her husband. Always wondered how long it took her to go back to sleep. Especially when she cried while telling me he was deceased ?
This was a logical test. I said "there exists A ^ B" and waited for someone reading it as "B -> A". You did!Quote: FaceQuote: kubikulannIf morons want to believe absurdities because they can't face reality, well... there is no law against being a moron, isn't it?
There's no need for the insults. There are many who preach or follow the word of Christ here. Few if any are morons nor do they deserve such a jab.
Are there moronic religious folk? Yup, sure as night doth follow day. There's Christian morons, Hindi morons, Sihk morons...and, of course, no shortage of atheist and agnostic morons. What view you hold is immaterial. If a Christian is a moron, converting to atheism does not fix his moronicity ;)
Some morons believe in betting systems.
Some believe in astrology.
Some believe in Prince Charming, or in being able to change their boyfriend.
Some believe in the efficient market hypothesis.
Some believe in afterlife and a personal God.
These are all examples of choices of a belief system because they cannot face reality.
Now there can be non-morons who believe those things. In theory. Haven't met them yet, though...
If got has a plan, its a sick and sadistic one.
Since he is God and all powerful, he can do anything. You think he would just clear up a few things for us.
I still don't know how it is Going to church on Sundays("sometimes") and being kind is good enough to get into heaven. Sounds so easy for such a complicated story, bible and understanding of god. I ask Why you, why do you think you get to go to heaven? There are much more deserving, god serving people in the world. If the 144 thousand numbers have any merit, I seriously doubt anyone on this forum has a chance in HELL to go to heaven.
I still don't understand why god picks entire regions to leave out of heaven. I don't understand why people who lived before the bible was spread around, won't have a chance to enter the kingdom of god.
Religion can never answer the hard questions with anything other then, "God has his reasons" This may be good for non free thinkers.
Quote: AxelWolfAll I know is Frgambke called me an atheist . That's a personal insult. However I do not wish any purgatory bestowed on you.
I don't want purgatory bestowed on myself, in case FrG is right. So let's file that one under misunderstandings, shall we?
Quote: boymimboWhen I sit in church, I think sometimes that everything the people are doing might be for naught. But it makes you feel better. You're part of a community of like-minded people. The church I go to offers hope, encourages charity and mindfulness -- nothing wrong with those things. These things can be achieved as well via friendship and meditation as well.
Thank you for that very honest post. Not to to say you are, but it makes me wonder how many in the pews are faking their faith for the benefit of being part of a "like-minded" community.
Quote: DeMangoIn case anyone noticed a few years ago, purgatory was mostly done away with. No Scriptural basis for openers.
I'm pretty sure FrG supports the doctrine.
Quote: WizardThank you for that very honest post. Not to to say you are, but it makes me wonder how many in the pews are faking their faith for the benefit of being part of a "like-minded" community.
How about being elected POTUS??
Quote: AxelWolfIf there is a god, I don't know why everyone you ask has a different interpretation of everything surrounding God and the bible. You can ask 2 leaders in the same exact church and both will have different views on the same subjects. This makes no sense why god wants us to be so confused. Why are there literally hundreds of inconstancy's and contradictions in the bible. If Jesus can turn water in to wine, can't GOD just wave his magic wand and re-write the bible for us?
If got has a plan, its a sick and sadistic one.
Since he is God and all powerful, he can do anything. You think he would just clear up a few things for us.
I still don't know how it is Going to church on Sundays("sometimes") and being kind is good enough to get into heaven. Sounds so easy for such a complicated story, bible and understanding of god. I ask Why you, why do you think you get to go to heaven? There are much more deserving, god serving people in the world. If the 144 thousand numbers have any merit, I seriously doubt anyone on this forum has a chance in HELL to go to heaven.
I still don't understand why god picks entire regions to leave out of heaven. I don't understand why people who lived before the bible was spread around, won't have a chance to enter the kingdom of god.
Religion can never answer the hard questions with anything other then, "God has his reasons" This may be good for non free thinkers.
What are the hard questions?
The path to heaven, in the Christian church, is the firm belief (aka Faith) that Jesus is the Son of God, who died, was resurrected, and forgave us for all of our sins. Plain and simple. You don't have to go to church at all. You don't have to be a kind person, though if you truly believe that, you tend to be kind-hearted none-the-less.
Quote: WizardThank you for that very honest post. Not to to say you are, but it makes me wonder how many in the pews are faking their faith for the benefit of being part of a "like-minded" community.
I don't know. I'm enough of a scientist to understand that there is absolutely no physical proof of the existence of God, and that goes for a Christian God as well. That leaves us with faith alone. I don't poll the inner workings of the 200 or so people in the congregation, and I don't question their motives either.
We will leave it in Gods hands.Quote: WizardI don't want purgatory bestowed on myself, in case FrG is right. So let's file that one under misunderstandings, shall we?
Just like Pastor Jamie Coots who died Saturday night after being bitten by a snake in his very own church and left it in gods hands to save him.
Quote: DeMangoIn case anyone noticed a few years ago, purgatory was mostly done away with. No Scriptural basis for openers.
Actually this is a common misconception what was done away with was the necessary idea of limbo of the innocent. So it used to be the case that the church affirmed the unbaptized infants cannot get into heaven this was relaxed and said that it is possible that unbaptized infants get into heaven. None of this though means limbo and purgatory doesn't exist it simply means that maybe Limbo of the infant doesn't exist. Basically the church affirmed there was no scriptural reason to rule either way and thus let followers choose to believe as they wished.
Quote:Pope accidentally says 'f**k' in Italian during his Sunday blessings
http://ibnlive.in.com/news/pope-accidentally-says-fk-in-italian-during-his-sunday-blessings/455725-79.html
Praise the Lord!
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(I'm sorry, I do try to stay out of this thread unless someone posts something truly rank... but those three words, "now its [sic] infallible," have me genuinely puzzled.)
Quote: FrGamblesorry, just me poking fun at what people often think is Church doctrine.
It is rather funny, in modern parlance, to call an epic fail "infallible."
Wow you must have a seeing eye dog then.Quote: djatcIs it true God is always watching? I usually close my blinds when I handle business. Does he kill a kitten everytime I masturbate? Why is he so mean?
