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Croupier
Croupier
Joined: Nov 15, 2009
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May 15th, 2011 at 11:11:58 PM permalink
Quote: Bluechip

Croupier is right



Looks like there is a first time for everything :D
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DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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May 16th, 2011 at 7:06:25 AM permalink
Quote: Bluechip

Croupier is right -- the virtual BJ machines in Pennsylvania deal from separate shoes for each player and the dealer.

I don't think that's isolated to Pennsylvania.

I'm under the understanding that ShuffleMaster's TableMaster machines does that for ALL games that can use multiple decks, and in all jurisdictions.
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? Note that the same could be said for Religion. I.E. Religion is nothing more than organized superstition.
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
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May 16th, 2011 at 8:59:05 AM permalink
A good deal of your post relates to what is a perception regarding the dealers actions and facial expressions. This is not evidence, the dealers are bored and often have fixed expressions in place.

I think you might want to rephrase the question as: Assuming that rigging the shoe is indeed going to work, how long would it take to rig it and how much additional money would be made for the time and effort the casino invested in that cheating.

Normally a casino has no need to cheat. Normally a casino manager is worried about losing a license if there is ongoing pervasive cheating.

In an Indian casino there is usually no fear about losing a license. Still there is no need for it to cheat, they just change the payout. With this mandated ante to play and a 6:5 payout, I sure don't see how you could really expect to win.

So on balance I'd say, its probably not rigged simply because its not worth their time and effort to do such a thing. Indian casinos are not noted for being cash cows for the players, they are noted for being cash cows for the tribes. I don't think anyone would play at an Indian casino if they happened to have an alternative that was close to them. Whether this one particular casino has a reputation or not, I don't know but your response should simply be to save up your money and go to Vegas where the exact same financial results may occur but you will not have the slightest worries about the fairness involved. It may not be a comfort to your wallet but it will be a comfort to your peace of mind.

Indian casinos often declare a slot machine jackpot to be a malfunction and the player has no recourse. If it happens in Vegas, you at least get an armed Gaming Officer and a right to a hearing. Thats the difference between a state being worried about its primary industry and a Tribe that has no worries about anything at all.
WizardofEngland
WizardofEngland
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May 16th, 2011 at 9:19:41 AM permalink
Forgive my ignorance, but why is the there no fear of losing a licence in an Indian casino?

I recently stayed at the Seminole Hard Rock in Florida, and noticed no difference between an indian casino and a traditional casino. I wasn't sure what to expect, but all was normal.
http://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/general/10042-woes-black-sheep-game-ii/#post151727
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
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May 16th, 2011 at 9:56:22 AM permalink
Quote: WizardofEngland

Forgive my ignorance, but why is the there no fear of losing a licence in an Indian casino?

Every time I see a statement like that, I wonder the same thing.

I'm assuming that, unlike state licensed casinos, there is no outside authority available to oversee and/or settle dispites. There generally IS a self-appointed authority, but the feeling is, who do you think they will side with? And even if something is uncovered, who do you think they will report it to?

For the record, I don't believe any of it. I gotta believe that they have to answer to someone. Maybe not on the state level. Maybe on the federal level, but there's got to be some form of oversight.


Quote: WizardofEngland

I recently stayed at the Seminole Hard Rock in Florida, and noticed no difference between an indian casino and a traditional casino. I wasn't sure what to expect, but all was normal.

I think even if the allegations were true, to a casual observer, you'd never notice anything different - except that the decor may have an Indian theme.
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? Note that the same could be said for Religion. I.E. Religion is nothing more than organized superstition.
WizardofEngland
WizardofEngland
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May 16th, 2011 at 10:34:50 AM permalink
Not really an indian theme, just guitars and music related stuff everywhere. for some reason?
http://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/general/10042-woes-black-sheep-game-ii/#post151727
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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May 16th, 2011 at 11:01:53 AM permalink
Seminole may be Indian owned, and on soverign Indian land, but it's managed by, themed as, and named, Hard Rock.
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? Note that the same could be said for Religion. I.E. Religion is nothing more than organized superstition.
WizardofEngland
WizardofEngland
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May 16th, 2011 at 11:19:21 AM permalink
I believe the casino in question is just outside the indian land, but with the amount of money the seminole's have, they can pretty much buy ANYTHING. I believe they loaned the state of Florida $1BN in return for legalized blackjack. They say roulette there is a matter of time.
http://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/general/10042-woes-black-sheep-game-ii/#post151727
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
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May 16th, 2011 at 11:51:07 AM permalink
Quote: WizardofEngland

Forgive my ignorance, but why is the there no fear of losing a licence in an Indian casino?

Some Indian tribes are mere concoctions by lawyers, some Indian tribes are more cults than tribes. The main thing is that usually the licensing authority is a rubber-stamp entity created by the tribe itself. Some Indian tribes have tremendous political clout and economic clout.

>I recently stayed at the Seminole Hard Rock in Florida, and noticed no difference between an indian casino and a traditional casino.
You didn't notice any craps or roulette, you didn't notice any significant Comps being awarded, you were in what was essentially a monopoly and therefore not required to be responsive to customers who have complaints.
WizardofEngland
WizardofEngland
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May 16th, 2011 at 12:35:52 PM permalink
I did get my whole bill comped for the stay though, meals, drink and mini bar, was circa $1,800. Not to shabby I think.
http://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/general/10042-woes-black-sheep-game-ii/#post151727

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