DRich
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April 30th, 2016 at 8:45:20 AM permalink
Quote: Wizardofnothing

It's just funny he doesn't want to put it out there since he may or may not play it- yet he wants to put out a more important play that he could not take advantage of

This pretty much sums things up and I think most posting in this thread would agree with me



I think this is a great thread. I have no intention of going to New York but it did inspire me to read the New York regulations. Hopefully others read them and learn something.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
Wizardofnothing
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April 30th, 2016 at 8:50:54 AM permalink
What site did you read them on?
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GWAE
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April 30th, 2016 at 8:55:26 AM permalink
Quote: DRich

I think this is a great thread. I have no intention of going to New York but it did inspire me to read the New York regulations. Hopefully others read them and learn something.



After reading them do you think you know where the play is coming from.
Expect the worst and you will never be disappointed. I AM NOT PART OF GWAE RADIO SHOW
AxelWolf
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April 30th, 2016 at 10:09:46 AM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

After reading Mission's and Wiz's comments, I think the only error in DarkOz's posts were the leading us to believe that he could do this play easily and repeatedly. I think if DarkOz just started with "There is a play I can get away with for a day or two that can reliably make me thousands......"

As far as whether it is legal or not, well, lawyers make millions of dollars a year fighting that battle. Mike's interpretation that it might not be, shows that it is at least in a gray area.

But overall, I think the flavor of DarkOz's comments seem at least plausible. I can sense the desperation in Axel's posts that he wants to know!

By the way, DarkOz, would this play be clearly illegal in Atlantic City or Las Vegas?

I want to know everything and everything about gambling I possibly can whether or not I play it. That doesn't mean I would attempt whatever this is. As I said before, there's lot's of stuff around you could make good money at, but I'm not interested. There's plenty of lucrative legitimate AP moves and plays I don't mess with for many reasons, especially they are too complicated.

I have known about good stuff in NY and for a long time now, I have not really put much time or effort into it.I sometimes think about going but something always comes up.
I'm fairly certain I could figure it and other things out if I went and tried. I can spot an AP or hustler a mile away.
And I'm Fairly sure I know who Darkoz is and what he looks like(I guess he said he's not playing it, however people oftentimes go back to the well).
I'm not frothing at the mouth regarding this or anything, because I'm happy with things as they are now.

You can't say you missed this or that and it cost you money, because You can't be everywhere at once. You end up giving up whatever you are doing or other plays to be in another location( We are spread thin as it is.)
You can't just start messing around with any joe blow trying to get AP help either. That's dangerous for so many reasons.

IMO, Darkoz has significant other motivations here other than AP. Writing and film seems to be his real passion, and a few AP moves are just a stop along the way. It seems like he's self promoting, and that's fine, I just hope his books or whatever doesn't have an affect on AP's.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Wizardofnothing
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April 30th, 2016 at 11:31:33 AM permalink
You are probably right
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Mission146
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April 30th, 2016 at 12:21:18 PM permalink
Axel would figure it out in less than five minutes if he was there.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
Wizardofnothing
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April 30th, 2016 at 12:22:50 PM permalink
Axel figures out everything I wish was at liberty to discuss something axel found, it was outright amazing
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speedycrap
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April 30th, 2016 at 12:57:47 PM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

Come on DarkOz..... I'll even assume 'thousands' is the lowest plural, at $2,000. If you have found a repeatable play worth over $700,000 a year, I would think the last thing you would want to do is alert anyone to it.
Before this recent thread, which I do believe is trolling, nothing more, nothing less, I did find your previous dust up about the Plaza promotion at least defensible.
,
And you 'moved on' from an AP play worth 'thousands a day'? Please.......

soopoo long te no.seem doing good??? Well maybe maybe not
darkoz
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May 5th, 2016 at 11:56:53 AM permalink
One person so far has pm'd me with the correct assessment of the move. I won't say who it was. I confirmed it for them.

This proves, while the information I gave was purposely made difficult to figure out, the OP along with a few scattered hints throughout the thread was fair.

I don't know if this person intends to capitalize on the move. As I have said, I have no intention of using it now or in the future.

Good luck.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
Wizardofnothing
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May 5th, 2016 at 12:41:23 PM permalink
There is no move .... Jesus - to start with its illegal and b, there is no proof that what you are claiming act sully produces that result
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darkoz
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May 5th, 2016 at 1:02:33 PM permalink
Quote: Wizardofnothing

There is no move .... Jesus - to start with its illegal and b, there is no proof that what you are claiming act sully produces that result



In your frustration you contradict yourself.

Is there "no move" or is there an "illegal one" You cannot have it both ways.

It may be a gray area move but I do not believe it is wholly outright illegal. And it would be incredibly difficult to prove. Most certainly, there is a move.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
Wizardofnothing
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May 5th, 2016 at 1:16:59 PM permalink
That's not contradictory it's saying essentially it's a non move because it's partly illegal, take capping bets, it's not really a move because it's illegal but yes you could make money with it
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AxelWolf
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May 5th, 2016 at 1:44:17 PM permalink
It's not Illegal. I mean I don't think it is.

At least according to NV.

Please let's move on to something else.

Darkoz. For your own sake. Please be careful about adding TMI on this forum and privatlty. Especially anything personal, be careful who you deal with. We have creeps like B79 lurking(the guy spoofed numbers and said crazy shit) I think you understand why per our PM. I realy don't want to get into it.

I suggest all others heed that same advice.

Anything I have said isn't personal( I know it's hard not to take it that way) my flagging wasn't personal. Anything I have said isn't personal

I can hate your views, I can hate what you say or do but I can't or don't hate you or most people.


IE. I have a BIG problem with Dan's views about advantage players and AP. But I respect him and think he is a smart individual. I would buy the guy dinner and lend a helping hand if he needed it and I could be of assistance.

I hate AP rats and people who are evil. Imy fairly easy going and very forgiving I believe in 1st, 2nd and 3rd chances.

Mike S. Is an outstanding guy in my book. I disagree with some of his philosophy. Somtimes I hate and love this forum.

It's both a blessing and a thorn.

I do love your writing. I just wish you would stick with some fiction.
TBH. I seriously don't think you have enough AP knowledge, experience or plays under your belt to write a good book. I think whatever you said would only hurt AP and help casino's fill holes.

Write some fiction gambling stories and I will be the first one to read it and encourage others to do so.

You can change the details and skew stuff but still include some of your RL adventures.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
darkoz
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May 5th, 2016 at 6:32:30 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

It's not Illegal. I mean I don't think it is.

At least according to NV.

Please let's move on to something else.

Darkoz. For your own sake. Please be careful about adding TMI on this forum and privatlty. Especially anything personal, be careful who you deal with. We have creeps like B79 lurking(the guy spoofed numbers and said crazy shit) I think you understand why per our PM. I realy don't want to get into it.

I suggest all others heed that same advice.

Anything I have said isn't personal( I know it's hard not to take it that way) my flagging wasn't personal. Anything I have said isn't personal

I can hate your views, I can hate what you say or do but I can't or don't hate you or most people.


IE. I have a BIG problem with Dan's views about advantage players and AP. But I respect him and think he is a smart individual. I would buy the guy dinner and lend a helping hand if he needed it and I could be of assistance.

I hate AP rats and people who are evil. Imy fairly easy going and very forgiving I believe in 1st, 2nd and 3rd chances.

Mike S. Is an outstanding guy in my book. I disagree with some of his philosophy. Somtimes I hate and love this forum.

It's both a blessing and a thorn.

I do love your writing. I just wish you would stick with some fiction.
TBH. I seriously don't think you have enough AP knowledge, experience or plays under your belt to write a good book. I think whatever you said would only hurt AP and help casino's fill holes.

Write some fiction gambling stories and I will be the first one to read it and encourage others to do so.

You can change the details and skew stuff but still include some of your RL adventures.



Thx, advice acknowledged. When I do decide to publish I will send you an advance copy for your opinion.

A lot of tug of war goes on here especially between WON and me but we actually PM each other quite civilly. For those people getting a kick out of watching us duke it out, its just something we like doing publicly. Privately we have a mutual respect for each other.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
Brewfangrb
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July 9th, 2016 at 2:03:16 AM permalink
Quote: Wizardofnothing

It's just funny he doesn't want to put it out there since he may or may not play it- yet he wants to put out a more important play that he could not take advantage of

This pretty much sums things up and I think most posting in this thread would agree with me



Edited because I thought better of it.
EricStoner
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August 18th, 2016 at 8:36:43 PM permalink
Wow! This is one hell of a thread - you guys really go after each other. Since I'm a late arrival to this thread, I just have one question - is this AP move still feasible. Not that I know what it even is - all I know is NYS and City have some odd gambling statutes. I plan on visiting my old hometown in the near future and may visit Aqueduct or Yonkers. Doubt I'll figure it out and not sure I'd do it if it is in a very grey area, but the thread got me curious. (Why would I shy away from an AP play if it was there?)

p.s. Not sure why everyone gets upset here when someone posts something about a promo that is public knowledge like DarkOz did with the Plaza promo. Bunch of nonsense! Anyone worth their salt as an AP or just a smart gambler within distance would've known about it. In addition, there aren't that many people visiting these forums to begin with. I been visiting this site for years for the resources without ever having bothered to really check out the forums until recently when a gambling friend mentioned an interesting thread here.
ďOur greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail.Ē - Emerson
Wizardofnothing
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August 18th, 2016 at 9:21:14 PM permalink
Congrats
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AxelWolf
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August 19th, 2016 at 3:33:14 AM permalink
Quote: EricStoner

Wow! This is one hell of a thread - you guys really go after each other. Since I'm a late arrival to this thread, I just have one question - is this AP move still feasible. Not that I know what it even is - all I know is NYS and City have some odd gambling statutes. I plan on visiting my old hometown in the near future and may visit Aqueduct or Yonkers. Doubt I'll figure it out and not sure I'd do it if it is in a very grey area, but the thread got me curious. (Why would I shy away from an AP play if it was there?)

p.s. Not sure why everyone gets upset here when someone posts something about a promo that is public knowledge like DarkOz did with the Plaza promo. Bunch of nonsense! Anyone worth their salt as an AP or just a smart gambler within distance would've known about it. In addition, there aren't that many people visiting these forums to begin with. I been visiting this site for years for the resources without ever having bothered to really check out the forums until recently when a gambling friend mentioned an interesting thread here.

Really? That's odd because many known public gaming figures didn't know about it until it was published on here. And no action was taken before it was published on here. And even after being scouted by many AP's significant value plays were completely missed. Not to mention there was a WOV meetup in Vegas at the time. That certainly limited a few seats potentially costing someone a seat or extending the time it took for people to get paid lowering the hourly and total earnings of someone who had took the time to scout and do the math and research and prepair. Now someone just needed to walk in and copy someone else. That person wouldn't have known about it had it not been for the loose lips. I don't go around outing DarkOz plays in___ just because I'm not there messing with them. That's horrible AP etiquette AND it could tip off the casinos.

Example: just because I'm not play at the Gold Dust in Atlantavill putting in 99k coin in on a 9/6 job $5 machine hidden in the 2 floor stage bar that gives our 3x points on fridays and a 1k bonus for 4 10n's at any bar. With a mailer that yields a daily free spin that's worth $ 99 in value for the next 45 days.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
blackhole
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August 19th, 2016 at 4:08:24 AM permalink
Imagine your living and future counting on the type of people that posted in this thread ?

edit: Didn't mean anything personal by the word "type" being used above. Should have used the word conversation. Know I'm being watched for my opinion, and need to clarify what I say.
Wizardofnothing
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August 19th, 2016 at 5:56:55 AM permalink
Imagine that every public company encounters the same issue- trust your high level execs not to release info before it is made public-
Except they go to jail if they tell just a few
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Sandybestdog
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August 19th, 2016 at 6:57:50 AM permalink
Except that no one has figured out what the play is.
Wizardofnothing
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August 19th, 2016 at 7:07:44 AM permalink
Sure that have- it just hasn't been discussed on here and may not even be working any longer
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blackhole
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August 19th, 2016 at 4:22:41 PM permalink
Quote: Wizardofnothing

Imagine that every public company encounters the same issue- trust your high level execs not to release info before it is made public-
Except they go to jail if they tell just a few



Do you ever compare apples to apples or oranges to oranges. Your always way out there in deep center.
Wizardofnothing
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August 19th, 2016 at 4:56:08 PM permalink
You have preconceived inaccurate and insulting notions- I really don't have any interest in debating you engaging you in conversation- no offense
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blackhole
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August 19th, 2016 at 5:11:34 PM permalink
Quote: Wizardofnothing

You have preconceived inaccurate and insulting notions- I really don't have any interest in debating you engaging you in conversation- no offense



Based on your conversation at that other site I have no desire to discuss anything with a dysfunctional compulsive liar.

To defend my comment I would need to link to several posts of his made at the other site, but thatís not allowed. So, before I get banned for an accurate observation please read his posts at GF.
Wizardofnothing
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August 19th, 2016 at 5:38:22 PM permalink
Have a nice suspension on insulting me -
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Mission146
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August 19th, 2016 at 5:41:50 PM permalink
Quote: blackhole

Based on your conversation at that other site I have no desire to discuss anything with a dysfunctional compulsive liar.

To defend my comment I would need to link to several posts of his made at the other site, but thatís not allowed. So, before I get banned for an accurate observation please read his posts at GF.



Personal Insult-One Week
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
Wizardofnothing
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August 19th, 2016 at 5:48:42 PM permalink
I don't care about the other forum- I go over there to curse people out because they are trolls for the most part/ now you have venture back here and towed the line for a week- you cause the same ruckus over there as well
I'm sure this will give you more to talk about now
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EricStoner
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August 19th, 2016 at 6:02:26 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

Really? That's odd because many known public gaming figures didn't know about it until it was published on here. And no action was taken before it was published on here. And even after being scouted by many AP's significant value plays were completely missed. Not to mention there was a WOV meetup in Vegas at the time. That certainly limited a few seats potentially costing someone a seat or extending the time it took for people to get paid lowering the hourly and total earnings of someone who had took the time to scout and do the math and research and prepair. Now someone just needed to walk in and copy someone else. That person wouldn't have known about it had it not been for the loose lips. I don't go around outing DarkOz plays in___ just because I'm not there messing with them. That's horrible AP etiquette AND it could tip off the casinos.

Example: just because I'm not play at the Gold Dust in Atlantavill putting in 99k coin in on a 9/6 job $5 machine hidden in the 2 floor stage bar that gives our 3x points on fridays and a 1k bonus for 4 10n's at any bar. With a mailer that yields a daily free spin that's worth $ 99 in value for the next 45 days.



You seem to live in a different world than I do - by that - I mean my own personal experience is that word always gets around extremely fast on any promo/exploitable play that is publicly advertised or public knowledge. I do agree loose lips sink ships and I don't make it a habit of talking about any plays that I come across that are not public knowledge and I have an extremely small circle of people that I trust.

Like I said, any AP worth their salt can figure out whether a promotion/play is worth working. There are tons of plays that I am aware of that I simply don't bother to play because I either don't have the time or desire to travel for them.

Either way, it is our jobs as AP's to continue to exploit the exploiter. Casinos are built on greed and exploiting human weakness, that same greed is what keeps us in business.
ďOur greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail.Ē - Emerson
onenickelmiracle
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August 19th, 2016 at 7:10:44 PM permalink
The first thought in my head would be cashing tickets over $599 for those with debts to NY or child support. If they cash them, their bills are paid, and they're broke.
I am a robot.
darkoz
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August 20th, 2016 at 12:11:37 AM permalink
Quote: onenickelmiracle

The first thought in my head would be cashing tickets over $599 for those with debts to NY or child support. If they cash them, their bills are paid, and they're broke.



While that is a NY AP move, (I know a few people who do it), it is not the one in question and certainly not very lucrative.
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RS
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August 20th, 2016 at 1:42:21 AM permalink
Quote: EricStoner

You seem to live in a different world than I do - by that - I mean my own personal experience is that word always gets around extremely fast on any promo/exploitable play that is publicly advertised or public knowledge. I do agree loose lips sink ships and I don't make it a habit of talking about any plays that I come across that are not public knowledge and I have an extremely small circle of people that I trust.

Like I said, any AP worth their salt can figure out whether a promotion/play is worth working. There are tons of plays that I am aware of that I simply don't bother to play because I either don't have the time or desire to travel for them.

Either way, it is our jobs as AP's to continue to exploit the exploiter. Casinos are built on greed and exploiting human weakness, that same greed is what keeps us in business.



IMO....

Part of the problem is recreational gamblers getting on plays who haven't done their homework. I'm not necessarily worried about other AP's figuring stuff out, of course that's going to happen, but there's only going to be 5 or 10 or however many. Start announcing promotions and exactly how to play them, what it's worth, etc. etc. and all of a sudden you got swarms of recreational gamblers (10x more recreational gamblers than APs).....and now you got problems. It pisses me off it's the people who get cutesy and think it's fun to talk about different AP tactics or certain promotions....they aren't the ones who are going to be negatively affected (effected?) from it. What ends up happening is instead of a promo running for 10 hours where 10 APs each make $20k.....the promo runs for 30 minutes, 100 people each make $50, and everyone's f****ed. If people wanna get in on a play -- go ahead. But if they want to get spoon-fed the information and can't do an ounce of homework, math, or some creative thinking....that's where we're gonna have to disagree.

Yes, word can travel quickly and plays get burnt out -- but that doesn't mean we have to expedite the process. With some plays, even though they are advertised publicly, etc. etc....that doesn't mean everyone knows about it. There was one play (that I burnt out) a while ago.....it was advertised online for at least 2 years....I think it's still going actually....long story short, never saw another AP in the casino playing the promo....worth several hundred an hour....and after 4-5 hours you cannot be behind (okay, maybe if you're like -7 standard deviations or some sh**). Should I have told people about it, even though most APs know about it (or should know about it), even if they don't know how to play it or which machine to play?
AxelWolf
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August 20th, 2016 at 6:05:29 AM permalink
Quote: RS

Quote: EricStoner

You seem to live in a different world than I do - by that - I mean my own personal experience is that word always gets around extremely fast on any promo/exploitable play that is publicly advertised or public knowledge. I do agree loose lips sink ships and I don't make it a habit of talking about any plays that I come across that are not public knowledge and I have an extremely small circle of people that I trust.

Like I said, any AP worth their salt can figure out whether a promotion/play is worth working. There are tons of plays that I am aware of that I simply don't bother to play because I either don't have the time or desire to travel for them.

Either way, it is our jobs as AP's to continue to exploit the exploiter. Casinos are built on greed and exploiting human weakness, that same greed is what keeps us in business.



IMO....

Part of the problem is recreational gamblers getting on plays who haven't done their homework. I'm not necessarily worried about other AP's figuring stuff out, of course that's going to happen, but there's only going to be 5 or 10 or however many. Start announcing promotions and exactly how to play them, what it's worth, etc. etc. and all of a sudden you got swarms of recreational gamblers (10x more recreational gamblers than APs).....and now you got problems. It pisses me off it's the people who get cutesy and think it's fun to talk about different AP tactics or certain promotions....they aren't the ones who are going to be negatively affected (effected?) from it. What ends up happening is instead of a promo running for 10 hours where 10 APs each make $20k.....the promo runs for 30 minutes, 100 people each make $50, and everyone's f****ed. If people wanna get in on a play -- go ahead. But if they want to get spoon-fed the information and can't do an ounce of homework, math, or some creative thinking....that's where we're gonna have to disagree.

Yes, word can travel quickly and plays get burnt out -- but that doesn't mean we have to expedite the process. With some plays, even though they are advertised publicly, etc. etc....that doesn't mean everyone knows about it. There was one play (that I burnt out) a while ago.....it was advertised online for at least 2 years....I think it's still going actually....long story short, never saw another AP in the casino playing the promo....worth several hundred an hour....and after 4-5 hours you cannot be behind (okay, maybe if you're like -7 standard deviations or some sh**). Should I have told people about it, even though most APs know about it (or should know about it), even if they don't know how to play it or which machine to play?

+1
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
GWAE
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August 20th, 2016 at 6:52:30 AM permalink
RS you done confused me. You burnt it but it is still going? Put me on the play and we can split it. I wouldn't mind making 50 an hour for a few days. I can be there in 7 hours.
Expect the worst and you will never be disappointed. I AM NOT PART OF GWAE RADIO SHOW
AxelWolf
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August 20th, 2016 at 7:58:16 AM permalink
Quote: GWAE

RS you done confused me. You burnt it but it is still going? Put me on the play and we can split it. I wouldn't mind making 50 an hour for a few days. I can be there in 7 hours.

perhaps it was super good at the beginning/middle (if played right) until the casino got hit and caught on to some creative thinking. Now its changed but still profitable, however there's no way anyone who hit the casino could go back to the well.

Just a theory not sure what he's talking about there's a few plays that loosely fit that description.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
GWAE
GWAE
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August 20th, 2016 at 8:14:10 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

perhaps it was super good at the beginning/middle (if played right) until the casino got hit and caught on to some creative thinking. Now its changed but still profitable, however there's no way anyone who hit the casino could go back to the well.

Just a theory not sure what he's talking about there's a few plays that loosely fit that description.



Good thing theres people like me who didn't drink yet ;-)
Expect the worst and you will never be disappointed. I AM NOT PART OF GWAE RADIO SHOW
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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August 20th, 2016 at 8:18:51 AM permalink
Quote: GWAE

Good thing theres people like me who didn't drink yet ;-)

Bring your attorney.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
djatc
djatc
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August 20th, 2016 at 4:16:37 PM permalink
All I have to say is rs is not allowed in the most interesting casino in the area.
"Man Babes" #AxelFabulous
RS
RS
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August 20th, 2016 at 5:15:37 PM permalink
Quote: djatc

All I have to say is rs is not allowed in the most interesting casino in the area.



There ain't no $5 FPDW in the women's bathroom....I checked!
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