A NY AP move
Quote: WizardofnothingCurrently you can make thousands a day and you are not using it...:
This says it all
Even if you tell me you got 86d.at that point you would hire someone to do it
I'm not buying it
You're definitely not buying it because I'm not selling it.
Come one WON, we can have a good time with this, right? You and me seem to like doing the back and forth.
Quote: WizardofnothingJust like in New York on video poker get dealt quads 3333 and throw them all away and you will get 4444. Just New York law
I don't think I can even reply to that one.
Edit: maybe I just did but still...
Quote: DRichIf Mission says it seems plausible, that is good enough for me.
Should I post the video of me spying on Axel, DJ, and RS the past couple of days? All they do is scout for unclaimed $0.02 TITO tickets that the old ladies leave behind.
Yeesh, I hope you're joking!
I'm quite certain their plays are more lucrative than that.
DRich, did you notice that you were being followed, while you were following? Maybe old ladies TITO tickets were all you were meant to see? Heh?Quote: DRichIf Mission says it seems plausible, that is good enough for me.
Should I post the video of me spying on Axel, DJ, and RS the past couple of days? All they do is scout for unclaimed $0.02 TITO tickets that the old ladies leave behind.
But why not?Quote: darkozActually I do have an AP move that I make thousands every day and I never lose.
But that one you guys aren't getting from me.
I didn't want to bring up the Plaza again, because you apologized and that was that, but this is just dredging it up again. So here we go again.
You said something about "earned plays" VS non earned plays. As I said before you don't know who did what prior to the Plaza or any other play. Some people actually spend time scouting casinos, searching online every day, trading or buying information. Sometimes weeks or even months in advance. Don't forget about all the advanced planning and coordinating. All that just to have the information spread further and spoonfed to people who didn't do their due diligence. It's also increasing the chance the casino will change it.
It's kinda hypocritical of you to keep something to yourself but exposed other plays because you feel it's no biggie.
Yes I understand that you felt it was different because it had already been made public. However there's a BIG difference between this site and others. Especially when you know any AP play exposed here will be talked about in depth, theorized, mathematically broken down, analyzed and taken SERIOUSLY especially by the casinos. The other sites are like small local channels. Adding a good play here is like a special addition of 60 minutes.
Your promise wasn't expected after you apologized and explained yourself. It was obviously you were trying to defend yourself (especially from WON and whatever spat you two had going) ) and didn't want to seem hypocritical. You were never going to expose anything valuable about NY, if that was the case you would've done it before.
This post reeks with self promotion or wanting to prove something. THERE'S ZERO REASON TO TELL ANYONE PUBLICLY THAT YOU HAVE SOMETHING THAT MAKES THOUSAND A DAY. AAMOF I think it's downright foolish.
I can only come to a few concussions to as why you started this thread.
How convenient you get to blame your detractors for silencing you.
Regarding the thousand a day. Is this EVERY DAY, is it shared among others, it it spread over multiple locations?
Quote: AxelWolfBut why not?
I didn't want to bring up the Plaza again, because you apologized and that was that, but this is just dredging it up again. So here we go again.
You said something about "earned plays" VS non earned plays. As I said before you don't know who did what prior to the Plaza or any other play. Some people actually spend time scouting casinos, searching online every day, trading or buying information. Sometimes weeks or even months in advance. Don't forget about all the advanced planning and coordinating. All that just to have the information spread further and spoonfed to people who didn't do their due diligence. It's also increasing the chance the casino will change it.
It's kinda hypocritical of you to keep something to yourself but exposed other plays because you feel it's no biggie.
Yes I understand that you felt it was different because it had already been made public. However there's a BIG difference between this site and others. Especially when you know any AP play exposed here will be talked about in depth, theorized, mathematically broken down, analyzed and taken SERIOUSLY especially by the casinos. The other sites are like small local channels. Adding a good play here is like a special addition of 60 minutes.
Your promise wasn't expected after you apologized and explained yourself. It was obviously you were trying to defend yourself (especially from WON and whatever spat you two had going) ) and didn't want to seem hypocritical. You were never going to expose anything valuable about NY, if that was the case you would've done it before.
This post reeks with self promotion or wanting to prove something. THERE'S ZERO REASON TO TELL ANYONE PUBLICLY THAT YOU HAVE SOMETHING THAT MAKES THOUSAND A DAY. AAMOF I think it's downright foolish.
I can only come to a few concussions to as why you started this thread.
How convenient you get to blame your detractors for silencing you.
Regarding the thousand a day. Is this EVERY DAY, is it shared among others, it it spread over multiple locations?
TECHNICALLY, he should want to share the info. He said the Plaza play was ok to share because it was public knowledge. It was on their website so every one should already know about it because, well you know, there are only 945 casinos and we all search each one every month.
Now this play he is speaking off is based from a NYS law somehow. So since that law is clearly public knowledge then based on how he felt about plaza he should want to share this info.
Quote: AxelWolfBut why not?
I didn't want to bring up the Plaza again, because you apologized and that was that, but this is just dredging it up again. So here we go again.
You said something about "earned plays" VS non earned plays. As I said before you don't know who did what prior to the Plaza or any other play. Some people actually spend time scouting casinos, searching online every day, trading or buying information. Sometimes weeks or even months in advance. Don't forget about all the advanced planning and coordinating. All that just to have the information spread further and spoonfed to people who didn't do their due diligence. It's also increasing the chance the casino will change it.
It's kinda hypocritical of you to keep something to yourself but exposed other plays because you feel it's no biggie.
Yes I understand that you felt it was different because it had already been made public. However there's a BIG difference between this site and others. Especially when you know any AP play exposed here will be talked about in depth, theorized, mathematically broken down, analyzed and taken SERIOUSLY especially by the casinos. The other sites are like small local channels. Adding a good play here is like a special addition of 60 minutes.
Your promise wasn't expected after you apologized and explained yourself. It was obviously you were trying to defend yourself (especially from WON and whatever spat you two had going) ) and didn't want to seem hypocritical. You were never going to expose anything valuable about NY, if that was the case you would've done it before.
This post reeks with self promotion or wanting to prove something. THERE'S ZERO REASON TO TELL ANYONE PUBLICLY THAT YOU HAVE SOMETHING THAT MAKES THOUSAND A DAY. AAMOF I think it's downright foolish.
I can only come to a few concussions to as why you started this thread.
How convenient you get to blame your detractors for silencing you.
Regarding the thousand a day. Is this EVERY DAY, is it shared among others, it it spread over multiple locations?
Axel, I respect you very much.
However, you are talking in circles.
I promised a NY AP move during the whole Plaza debacle. I intended to spell it out completely but got a LOT of people stating I should give up no move, either now or in the future.
Are you upset because I am not giving up the move like people requested? (I should point out that you were one of those people).
I apologized for the Plaza promo. It is not my intention, nor ever was to cause people to lose money. I apologize again.
But: Axel said, quote snipped and sniped;
I can only come to a few concussions to as why you started this thread.
How convenient you get to blame your detractors for silencing you.
End snipped and sniped quote....
Holy Jhit!
Axel had a concussion (s). I just read that...
Quit banging your head against the wall bro.
If you need some assistance, send PM, I might come a runnin'.
Breathing is good, hydration also ;-)
<edit like #11 or sumptin', consider doublin' depending on rules, and count, and ask the monkey> see there, I forgot what I was going to write. Took too long to frame the thing correctly, and some thoughts are fleeting ;-(
Quote: darkozYeesh, I hope you're joking!
I'm quite certain their plays are more lucrative than that.
Of course I am kidding. Those guys are true professionals making AP their full time jobs.
Quote: OnceDearWell. I don't know what this opportunity is, so I cannot be accused of revealing it . . . But might this bit of NY statute be relevant?
I.e. Is welching enshrined in NY law?
http://www.gambling-law-us.com/State-Laws/New-York/
Sec. 5-419. Property staked may be recovered.
Any person who shall pay, deliver or deposit any money, property or thing in action, upon the event of any wager or bet prohibited, may sue for and recover the same of the winner or person to whom the same shall be paid or delivered, and of the stakeholder or other person in whose hands shall be deposited any such wager, bet or stake, or any part thereof, whether the same shall have been paid over by such stakeholder or not, and whether any such wager be lost or not.
Sec. 5-421. Losers of certain sums may recover them.
Every person who shall, by playing at any game, or by betting on the sides or hands of such as do play, lose at any time or sitting, the sum or value of twenty-five dollars or upwards, and shall pay or deliver the same or any part thereof, may, within three calendar months after such payment or delivery, sue for and recover the money or value of the things so lost and paid or delivered, from the winner thereof.
Sec. 5-423. Money paid for lottery tickets may be recovered by action.
Any person who shall purchase any share, interest, ticket, certificate of any share or interest, or part of a ticket, or any paper or instrument purporting to be a ticket or share or interest in any ticket, or purporting to be a certificate of any share or interest in any ticket, or in any portion of any lottery, may sue for and recover double the sum of money, and double the value of goods or things in action, which he may have paid or delivered in consideration of such purchase, with double costs of suit.
Humour me DarkOz? Am I on the right track?
No, you aren't but I applaud you for the attempt.
Those laws are referring to prohibited wagers although I admit the bit about lottery tickets throws me for a loop. Not sure how you could claim receiving double for taking a legal bet.
Suing in court like that would not be repeatable on a daily basis, I'm sure.
I suppose I could but when I said I win "every day" I should have been clearer, I meant every day I go gambling. I certainly don't go 365 days a year.
One of the reasons I do this vs. a 9-5 is so I am not tied down doing so much work. I like to enjoy my time. I have taken vacations and even a month off here and there.
Spending so much time in the casino would sound suspiciously like work to me.
Quote: WizardofnothingThe thread should just be closed because it's utter nonsense either say the play or don't. Not much more to it
Quote: WizardofnothingClearly it had it be a glitch if it is even real- If he found it - he would never leave - just like the two plays I found and played until they were cut off- I certainly would not leave for Ac for a couple days in the middle of them
How is that a good AP thing to do? Kill the plays through greed? My current play has been going on for two years now.
Yes, I was in AC relaxing for a few days. Like I said, I prefer to enjoy my time by spending it with family or relaxing and certainly not killing my plays through over-use.
Quote: WizardofnothingDon't double talk- you said you don't even use the play anymore since you moved onto other more profitable things, any ap worth their salt would not walk away and not have an employee or someone else running it - vacation or not - you would let a play go that is still running when by the time you get back it may be over
That is just a differing matter of how to approach an AP move. I understand the concern that a move may disappear so you hit it until its dead.
I was not part of the Craps glitch at Resorts World, but I surmise if they hadn't hit it for 100K in a single day, they would have quietly earned a lot more.
Of course, one can argue it might have been discovered before that and they did good hitting it hard and fast.
I choose my way of doing things. I can understand your way, as well.
As for employees, truth is I trusted one which nearly toppled my whole operation a few years ago. They tried to do what I do and of course I didn't tell them all my secrets. Within one week they had exposed my operation and the casino was launching an investigation and within two weeks that casino was dead as an AP move (although I have figured out another way of hitting them - that will come later - been planning my revenge.)
Even the employees I still trust have problems when something goes unexpected - they just fall apart. I just feel more comfortable doing everything myself on site.
I'm calling outright bs on almost everything related to this at this point
Quote: WizardofnothingA couple years ago? Weren't you still playing the bus ap move two years ago
The bus thing was from 2012 - early 2013.
The employee betrayal came at a time when I was still expanding, in my AP move infancy. Like I said, that betrayal nearly toppled me. It could not have come at a worse time. I've recovered quite well.
I do understand what it is to have an AP move blown and you lose money (trust me, I lost a lot more when that move was blown) so I empathize with the ruckus of the Plaza promo.
I've smelled it before, I remember.
There are so many things wrong with this that I'd have to take my shoes off to keep count.
I don't mind being played, happened many times, most were fun for a bit, then the lawyers got involved.
I think I'm done here, in this thread, and with this OP.
Did I mention it just smells bad?
He did tell the play to me in confidence. Based on what he said, this would indeed be a very lucrative play. Let me also add that I think it would at least be ethically cheating and possibly legally as well. It isn't something I would be comfortable doing, but to each his own.
p.s. The above was posted with permission from darkoz.
Quote: WizardMaybe darkoz owes us more appy polly loggies for teasing us with this opportunity without revealing specifics. I think if he told everybody about it, the play would be ruined by too many APs being greedy and drawing too much attention to it. In my opinion, this is the kind of play that calls for some discretion.
He did tell the play to me in confidence. Based on what he said, this would indeed be a very lucrative play. Let me also add that I think it would at least be ethically cheating and possibly legally as well. It isn't something I would be comfortable doing, but to each his own.
p.s. The above was posted with permission from darkoz.
Mike, darkoz posted that he could make thousands every day with no chance of losing. Forgetting whether you consider it legal or ethical, do you believe he could go to a casino day after day and use the same 'play' to guarantee a win of over $2,000 each and every day?
Quote: SOOPOOMike, darkoz posted that he could make thousands every day with no chance of losing. Forgetting whether you consider it legal or ethical, do you believe he could go to a casino day after day and use the same 'play' to guarantee a win of over $2,000 each and every day?
If it's ethically/legally questionable, I would think going every day would be a bad idea.
At a certain casino in pai gow poker there was a spot where the chips got placed when banking . On swing shift when a player was banking the dealer would put the chips in the circle in front of him for the amount the player was banking , for a solid couple weeks if yoy would bank during a dealer change but say bank prior to him leaving he would place the chips in the circle . The incoming dealer would give you the chips if you won and lock them up if you lost but never collect anything else from the player if you lost on the making hand -
That being said if Mike is saying this is unethical I'm confused because if it's written into a statute as per darkoz own admission how can it be illegal?
Mission AND the Wiz have details.
Details in a grey area sounds like.
Drama, I love drama. I said I quit, I changed my mind.
I have a white horse I don't always ride.
I have a white hat I don't always wear.
I like them both, I prefer them both in fact. But that's just first preference and depends on circumstances ;-)
If I flash a badge at you, I'll do so right handed.
I'm a left handed shooter.
Quote: SOOPOOMike, darkoz posted that he could make thousands every day with no chance of losing. Forgetting whether you consider it legal or ethical, do you believe he could go to a casino day after day and use the same 'play' to guarantee a win of over $2,000 each and every day?
In theory, yes. I hope darkoz won't mind me comparing it to the double-up bug. Click the link for the story on that. The question would be, do you want to make $2,000/day and risk getting caught and maybe going to jail, or making $500/day by slow playing it for months.
Can you be more precise in your description of 'threads like this'?Quote: MaxPenThreads like this are why traffic is down on the forum and valuable "contributors" have left.JMO
I see a Mod posting in it, I see the sheriff himself posting.
It could get good yet, it could...;-)
Anyway, I hope the Wizard chiming in saying that this is a feasible play, (assuming all of DarkOz's specifics are true, and again, I do not and can not have any empirical evidence as to same) at least somewhat validates my opinion that this sounds like a hypothetically plausible play.
In terms of utilizing the play everyday, I do not necessarily believe that you could, at least, not for very many consecutive days all at the same casino. You would definitely need to utilize this play at various casinos, or that failing, certainly take breaks after doing it a few days in a row. Personally, this is something that I would only do at a casino one or two days per week, but obviously, I would not earn as much on the play in the event that I didn't play it more often than that...but I wouldn't want to risk killing it.
With that being said, I think someone could theoretically figure the play out based on the hints that DarkOz has provided. I'm not saying anyone will, like I said before, it involves, 'A perfect storm,' of factors all of which DarkOz must be correct about in order for it to work.
Quote: Mission146For my part, I do not have an ethical problem with this play and would play it. That being said, I suppose there is a theoretical potential for legal problems, but I really don't see how. The casino would definitely 86 a player that they found to be doing it, though, no question about that.
Anyway, I hope the Wizard chiming in saying that this is a feasible play, (assuming all of DarkOz's specifics are true, and again, I do not and can not have any empirical evidence as to same) at least somewhat validates my opinion that this sounds like a hypothetically plausible play.
In terms of utilizing the play everyday, I do not necessarily believe that you could, at least, not for very many consecutive days all at the same casino. You would definitely need to utilize this play at various casinos, or that failing, certainly take breaks after doing it a few days in a row. Personally, this is something that I would only do at a casino one or two days per week, but obviously, I would not earn as much on the play in the event that I didn't play it more often than that...but I wouldn't want to risk killing it.
With that being said, I think someone could theoretically figure the play out based on the hints that DarkOz has provided. I'm not saying anyone will, like I said before, it involves, 'A perfect storm,' of factors all of which DarkOz must be correct about in order for it to work.
Don't you work as a night desk clerk at a hotel? You should be in your car heading to New York if this is real. Instead you, a moderator no less, are lending credibility to an outlandish claim. Are you writing the foreword for his book?
Quote: MaxPenDon't you work as a night desk clerk at a hotel? You should be in your car heading to New York if this is real. Instead you, a moderator no less, are lending credibility to an outlandish claim. Are you writing the foreword for his book?
Something is holding back darkoz as well. I'll leave it at that.
Of course I'm NOT upset you're not giving up the information. I'm upset you feel the need to give out information publicly PERIOD.Quote: darkoz
Are you upset because I am not giving up the move like people requested? (I should point out that you were one of those people).
.
There was absolutely no reason to make this thread.
Quote: MaxPenDon't you work as a night desk clerk at a hotel? You should be in your car heading to New York if this is real. Instead you, a moderator no less, are lending credibility to an outlandish claim. Are you writing the foreword for his book?
Might I suggest you read for context? I have stated a couple of things at least once, including:
1.) IF everything DarkOz said is true, then it could be a viable play.
2.) I do not have any Empirical evidence related to the play, and therefore, am not making an absolute assurance that everything DarkOz said is, in fact, true. How could I know that without doing it? My entire point is that if everything he said is true, then it is a viable play.
3.) Finally, in order to lend some credibility to DarkOz's claims, he offered to tell me the play under the condition, to the best of my understanding, that I neither reveal the play publicly (unless he eventually chooses to) and that I not actually embark on the play myself. Therefore, even if I wanted to, I could not do as you suggested because I said I would not embark on the play myself.
By the way, with respect to, 'A Moderator no less,' did you not see the post in which Wizard said something about DarkOz's alleged play substantially similar to what I did?
My entire goal in this thread was to establish one thing, and even then it was Darkoz's idea: That there is no way to prove that his claims are lies, and therefore, that he can not be proven to be Trolling or Baiting the Forum. What Darkoz has told me is enough to satisfy me that, if true, he is not Trolling or Baiting the Forum. If I were to find out that his statements were false, or if he said anything in that PM to me that was impossible or self-contradictory, then I would conclude that he was Trolling, Baiting or both.
Therefore, while I have no dispute with Darkoz whatsoever, please do not take anything I have said in any of these posts as a patent endorsement of either him, the play in question or his book. I have never read his book, and therefore, am not in a position to endorse it.
That said, if he wanted me to write a foreword to his book, I would first have to read his book and then we could discuss how much I am to be compensated for said writing, provided I felt that I could write said foreword at no risk to my personal credibility based on the content of his book.
Quote: Mission146Might I suggest you read for context? I have stated a couple of things at least once, including:
1.) IF everything DarkOz said is true, then it could be a viable play.
2.) I do not have any Empirical evidence related to the play, and therefore, am not making an absolute assurance that everything DarkOz said is, in fact, true. How could I know that without doing it? My entire point is that if everything he said is true, then it is a viable play.
3.) Finally, in order to lend some credibility to DarkOz's claims, he offered to tell me the play under the condition, to the best of my understanding, that I neither reveal the play publicly (unless he eventually chooses to) and that I not actually embark on the play myself. Therefore, even if I wanted to, I could not do as you suggested because I said I would not embark on the play myself.
By the way, with respect to, 'A Moderator no less,' did you not see the post in which Wizard said something about DarkOz's alleged play substantially similar to what I did?
My entire goal in this thread was to establish one thing, and even then it was Darkoz's idea: That there is no way to prove that his claims are lies, and therefore, that he can not be proven to be Trolling or Baiting the Forum. What Darkoz has told me is enough to satisfy me that, if true, he is not Trolling or Baiting the Forum. If I were to find out that his statements were false, or if he said anything in that PM to me that was impossible or self-contradictory, then I would conclude that he was Trolling, Baiting or both.
Therefore, while I have no dispute with Darkoz whatsoever, please do not take anything I have said in any of these posts as a patent endorsement of either him, the play in question or his book. I have never read his book, and therefore, am not in a position to endorse it.
That said, if he wanted me to write a foreword to his book, I would first have to read his book and then we could discuss how much I am to be compensated for said writing, provided I felt that I could write said foreword at no risk to my personal credibility based on the content of his book.
I would like to add that I supplied a link to the actual location of the NYS law in question WHEN PM'ING BOTH MISSION AND WIZARD so they could see for themselves (I assume they read and understood the pertinent info). My point being that I supplied to the best of my ability a link to officially validate my claims in reference to the law. There are multiple aspects to this AP move which is where Mission cannot speak without personally seeing for himself.
EDIT: the caps in the above was added to avoid confusion of where I posted the link. Already someone pm'd me what page the link was on this thread.
What do you mean?Quote: Mission146
By the way, with respect to, 'A Moderator no less,' did you not see the post in which Wizard said something about DarkOz's alleged play substantially similar to what I did?
.
Asking people betting big to use your card?
I'm confused.Quote: darkoz
I thought you said something about wanting to post up a play for people to take advantage of.
But since other AP's asked you not to PUBLICLY out plays, you decided against it.
Wonderful I respect that, however why did you tell/ask Mission NOT to play it himself or divulge it privately?
----------------------------------------------------------
Puzzled:
Unless this play is super shady or hard to pull off why wouldn't you share the information privately and mke a deal for part of the profits?
I'm sure someone could make 1k per day tricking people into creating UX multipliers, however it's not something anyone with any morals would want to do.
---------------------------------
It seems as if something just isn't adding up.
Quote: AxelWolfWhat do you mean?
Asking people betting big to use your card?
No, I meant that Wizard also said that DarkOz's play is feasible if everything that he said is true.
Ahh. Sorry I haven't read all the posts and misunderstood what you meant by that.Quote: Mission146No, I meant that Wizard also said that DarkOz's play is feasible if everything that he said is true.
Anything is possible, but just how probable is it is the question.
As I said beforr. Darkoz thought the plaza promo was ok to post because it was public. Since the law is public it would only be right to post the law. Maybe not the play but the law should be.
As far as whether it is legal or not, well, lawyers make millions of dollars a year fighting that battle. Mike's interpretation that it might not be, shows that it is at least in a gray area.
But overall, I think the flavor of DarkOz's comments seem at least plausible. I can sense the desperation in Axel's posts that he wants to know!
By the way, DarkOz, would this play be clearly illegal in Atlantic City or Las Vegas?
Quote: WizardofnothingHe already said it only works in nyc because of the law
New York state.
Quote: WizardofnothingOk got it; thought nyc only since a) that's where he plays and upstate is Indian and class 3 gaming as well
But the Indian ones don't follow state law. I assume this would work at any private casino in NYS. There are only a few and I think they are all near NYC.
Quote: WizardofnothingOk got it; thought nyc only since a) that's where he plays and upstate is Indian and class 3 gaming as well
It works at any casino governed by the NYS lottery commission. If the casino is listed on their website, the move can be used there.
Class III gaming or class II gaming is irrelevant.
EDIT: I should point out that the conditions at the casino have to be such (for example types of games offered) that the AP move is do-able. I have not scouted upstate casinos but assuming the games you would need are there, the move is applicable in some form or another.
This pretty much sums things up and I think most posting in this thread would agree with me
