MD Casinos (Hollywood/MD Live) Announce Tentative Table Games Start Dates
Per other reports, Hollywood Casino Perryville will be debuting its table games within the next 2 weeks.
As for Hollywood Perryville, I'll be interested to see where their mins end up. On one hand, people have clearly shown they are willing to pass there to go to DE Park, so if people have loyalty to DE Park and the table mins aren't cheaper, they won't start going to Hollywood. On the other hand, it's all about demand, and with only 12 non-poker tables, they might be able to pack them in enough to maintain $15+ mins at blackjack. I see Hollywood Perryville more as a "pit stop" casino than a destination casino, but that's my 2 cents.
Being the nerd I am, I tried to see what the MD rules on Blackjack are, and I could be wrong, but it appears they went the DE/PA route and all blackjack is 3:2, S17. Good rules, but that'll keep the minimums higher. It also appears craps odds are capped at 10X, which is more than most casinos allow, except for the Horseshoe chain, which is known for odds up to 100X.
I was at MD Live recently, and they must have just started moving stuff around to make way for tables. I don't see how they can possibly fit 150 of them in the space they've currently cleared out.
Quote: silversonic2006Per the MD Live! website, the games will start at 12:01 AM on Thursday, April 11. Per news reports, sounds like MD Live will have over 100 tables up at the start, and they plan to issue $10,000 chips (for the chip fanatics, per MD regulations, they will be oversized and silver in color. MD is going the Vegas route and using brown for $5000 chips).
Per other reports, Hollywood Casino Perryville will be debuting its table games within the next 2 weeks.
talked to someone that worked there about a poker room.
thats not in the cards till fall. <pun intended>
they are building a small addition to the casino for the poker room
Quote: silversonic2006If Charles Town was a good representation, I'd guess $25+ at nights and weekends, and $15+ the rest of the time. Maybe we'll see $10 craps during off peak hours. But that's after the novelty wears off. I'd guess $25+ at all times until then, and that's in line with Parx in Philly, as well, which I view as a casino similar to MD Live, and has a nifty table min feature on their website that I hope MD Live gets too.
As for Hollywood Perryville, I'll be interested to see where their mins end up. On one hand, people have clearly shown they are willing to pass there to go to DE Park, so if people have loyalty to DE Park and the table mins aren't cheaper, they won't start going to Hollywood. On the other hand, it's all about demand, and with only 12 non-poker tables, they might be able to pack them in enough to maintain $15+ mins at blackjack. I see Hollywood Perryville more as a "pit stop" casino than a destination casino, but that's my 2 cents.
Being the nerd I am, I tried to see what the MD rules on Blackjack are, and I could be wrong, but it appears they went the DE/PA route and all blackjack is 3:2, S17. Good rules, but that'll keep the minimums higher. It also appears craps odds are capped at 10X, which is more than most casinos allow, except for the Horseshoe chain, which is known for odds up to 100X.
I was at MD Live recently, and they must have just started moving stuff around to make way for tables. I don't see how they can possibly fit 150 of them in the space they've currently cleared out.
hm.. e-Craps 3/4/5x odds and no pressure to tip the Dealers if u win vs 10x odds but w/tipping
also, Md Live asks for ID (drivers license or players card) if u cash in a slot/e-table ticket of $2400 or more (even if you put in $2000 in the machine to start).
i think i'll still stick w/e-Craps
Quote: 100xOddshm.. e-Craps 3/4/5x odds and no pressure to tip the Dealers if u win vs 10x odds but w/tipping
That's just the *max* that MD regulations will allow. They could go lower (5X, 3-4-5X, etc). I doubt they'll go the Charles Town route of 2X.
Also, glancing over the rules, MD clearly allows for Macau-style midi-baccarat. I'd imagine MD Live will follow Parx's lead and load up on those tables given the popularity of the game and the fact they can command much higher minimums (I've never seen under $25, and $50+ is more common).
Who knows, maybe they'll even throw in one Big Baccarat table in the high limit room just to show they mean business, given the rarity of those tables nowadays. The Horseshoe Hammond and Mohegan Sun have one allegedly, and at least a few of the AC properties (Bally's, Caesars, and Borgata come to mind) and the high-end Vegas properties (Caesars, Bellagio, Wynn) still have them.
Quote: silversonic2006
Being the nerd I am, I tried to see what the MD rules on Blackjack are, and I could be wrong, but it appears they went the DE/PA route and all blackjack is 3:2, S17. Good rules, but that'll keep the minimums higher. It also appears craps odds are capped at 10X, which is more than most casinos allow, except for the Horseshoe chain, which is known for odds up to 100X.
They aren't taxing table games at 67%, yes 67%, like Maryland is for slot machines, right? If so, I don't see how they can run blackjack without a $50 minimum with these approved rules.
Quote: silversonic2006... and they plan to issue $10,000 chips ....
Do not expect to see me posting one in the Casino Chip of the Day thread.
;-)
As for the smaller casino in Perryville...they may have to go lower I'd say $25 min on weekends and $10-15 during the week. Del. Park is serious competition and demographically they have a hard time competing with the bigger money in Balt. and DC that MD Live attracts.
Should be interesting. There is another casino near Ocean City MD that I've never been to but I hear it's similar to the one in Perryville. Any idea what the time table is for table games there?
Also they should be breaking ground on the Harrah's(or maybe they're making it a Binion's now) casino in downtown Baltimore soon I believe.
Quote: vendman1Should be interesting. There is another casino near Ocean City MD that I've never been to but I hear it's similar to the one in Perryville. Any idea what the time table is for table games there?
I heard they had no immediate plans to add tables there...apparently when they built out the casino building, it was assumed to be slots only and to add tables would take some more significant renovation work than MD Live or Hollywood would have to do. I believe the guy who owns Delaware Park also owns Ocean Downs, so I don't know how well he's really doing right now.
I don't know what DE Park minimums are nowadays, but I can't imagine Perryville would set their minimums higher than that.
I completely agree that MD Live will be $50-$100 mins for blackjack and baccarat, $25+ for craps for the first few weeks, and $100+ across the board wouldn't be out of the question on opening night, if it's packed enough.
Quote: vendman1Also they should be breaking ground on the Harrah's(or maybe they're making it a Binion's now) casino in downtown Baltimore soon I believe.
i wonder which casino finishes being built first:
baltimore
prince goerges county (no site even selected yet)
Quote: DocDo not expect to see me posting one in the Casino Chip of the Day thread. ;-)
If you got one, I'd expect you'd be more interested in cashing it out, not taking pictures! It's kind of an odd denomination, just like the $20,000 chips issued in Atlantic City, which I saw once from a far distance at a craps table at Borgata. I only knew that's what they were because they were yellowish and in front of the gray $5,000 chips.
In all seriousness, I'd be surprised if anything higher than $1,000 in denomination was out on the main floor at MD Live. I've been to Parx once and except for baccarat and one or two craps tables with the big neon orange $1,000's, they didn't stock tables with anything over $500's.
Quote: 100xOddsi wonder which casino finishes being built first:
baltimore
prince goerges county (no site even selected yet)
From the Horseshoe Baltimore page, they plan to be open by summer 2014, and they are supposed to begin construction in the next month or so, assuming no additional lawsuits hold them up.
The PG casino cannot even legally start dealing cards until July 2016 or 30 months after the Horseshoe opens, whichever date arrives first.
Quote: silversonic2006nifty table min feature on their website that I hope MD Live gets too.
That is really cool and a nice thing to do.
Quote: silversonic2006In all seriousness, I'd be surprised if anything higher than $1,000 in denomination was out on the main floor at MD Live. I've been to Parx once and except for baccarat and one or two craps tables with the big neon orange $1,000's, they didn't stock tables with anything over $500's.
hm.. i thought yellow was the standard color for $1000 chips. guess only in Vegas?
Purple still $500?
Quote: 100xOddshm.. i thought yellow was the standard color for $1000 chips. guess only in Vegas?
Purple still $500?
In Connecticut $1000 chips are orange and are called pumpkins.
it looked like it's the same size as all the smaller chips.
i wonder why nj/conn broke from the Vegas standard at $1000? and why oversized?
Quote: 100xOddslol.. in vegas the $1000 chips are called bananas because they're yellow.
it looked like it's the same size as all the smaller chips.
i wonder why nj/conn broke from the Vegas standard at $1000? and why oversized?
I just assumed anything $1000 and over is over sized to announce "hey look at me, I'm a high value chip"...no chance a dealer or a cashier makes a mistake with one.
Quote: 100xOddslol.. in vegas the $1000 chips are called bananas because they're yellow.
it looked like it's the same size as all the smaller chips.
i wonder why nj/conn broke from the Vegas standard at $1000? and why oversized?
$5000 and over is frequently larger sized in Vegas as well, I believe. I've had one in my possession a few times...
Quote: 100xOddshm.. i thought yellow was the standard color for $1000 chips. guess only in Vegas?
Purple still $500?
AC had $20 yellow chips. They were used at the Bac tables.
The craps table didn't like it when you used them. They had no place to put them if you lost it.
-B
Quote: FatGeezusAC had $20 yellow chips. They were used at the Bac tables.
The craps table didn't like it when you used them. They had no place to put them if you lost it.
When playing BJ in AC players would sometimes bring the $20 yellow's with them to the BJ table. They would color them up as fast as possible and convert them to red or green. Then they would linger in the tray. Eventually the dealer would set aside $20 worth of tokes and then drop the $20 chips just to get them out of the tray.
And the original reason I came here: Perryville opening tables March 7th. Md Live April 14th. Ocean Downs no time in near future apparently.
Quote: 100xOddsand why oversized?
Check out Richard Marcus' book American Roulette for quite a bit of insight.
Quote: Amazon Book Description
In American Roulette, Richard Marcus tells his never-before-heard story, of ripping off casinos. The book follows Marcus, along with several of the world's great professional casino cheaters, as he travels from Las Vegas to London and Monte Carlo, pilfering large sums of money from casinos by performing sleight of hand magic tricks with gaming chips.
Emphasis mine.
Quote: silversonic2006It looks like all the tables are open today, a day earlier than planned. The casino posted some pictures on Facebook....considering it's only 12 house-banked table games and 8 poker tables, it doesn't look too bad. From the pictures I saw, it looks like craps is 3-4-5X odds, 00 roulette (not like I really expected single 0 roulette outside a high limit room), and blackjack is 3:2, stand all 17's.
Thursday the 11th, 12 AM, still seems to be the time and day they are promoting. Maybe you are seeing they are ready to go on Facebook [or did you actually go?]
Quote: silversonic2006It looks like all the tables are open today, a day earlier than planned. The casino posted some pictures on Facebook....considering it's only 12 house-banked table games and 8 poker tables, it doesn't look too bad. From the pictures I saw, it looks like craps is 3-4-5X odds, 00 roulette (not like I really expected single 0 roulette outside a high limit room), and blackjack is 3:2, stand all 17's.
wait.. they have poker tables?!
thought that wasnt going to open till fall when they finish building their extension?!
i dont think their dealer school taught poker for this 1st wave of dealers?
Quote: silversonic2006It looks like all the tables are open today, a day earlier than planned. The casino posted some pictures on Facebook....considering it's only 12 house-banked table games and 8 poker tables, it doesn't look too bad. From the pictures I saw, it looks like craps is 3-4-5X odds, 00 roulette (not like I really expected single 0 roulette outside a high limit room), and blackjack is 3:2, stand all 17's.
See this is the danger of Facebook. No the tables were not open early.
They opened at midnight on Thursday the 7th..just as advertised. There were only 12-15 people waiting to play, limits were all $25. The weather was sketchy and scared some people away I believe. Yes there are 12 tables. Mostly BJ (all stand on 17). Two Roulette (both 00) tables and two craps(3,4,5x odds) tables. There are 8 poker tables out and set up, but they weren't in use when I saw them. So can't speak to that. I tried to ask some casino employees about poker openings and got two different answers. They are having trouble getting trained poker dealers apparently. So Perryville is up and running, no sign of a high limit area yet. Arundel Mills will be up in April sometime. I've heard rumors that Arundel Mills is going to do a soft opening a little ahead of the official opening of tables. We will see.
the tables were up by the front door (behind ropes):
5 BJ, 1 roulette, 1 craps
didnt check the other entrance of the casino to see if there were tables there.
hopefully theres more.
if not, then they either didnt hold a big enuf dealer school, or ALOT of people failed out
If there is going to only be one Craps table, forget it, it'll be busy as hell at all times.
PS: news articles say 122 table games, so surely there will be more than one Craps table.
Quote: odiousgambitI got it wrong and it's April 11th [not March] that they are using as their start date. So not sure what it means to see some tables now.
If there is going to only be one Craps table, forget it, it'll be busy as hell at all times.
PS: news articles say 122 table games, so surely there will be more than one Craps table.
If I were to guess, MD Live probably had a table games floor plan made up when they built the place, so they know exactly what they have to do and how they have to get it done, and are probably going to move very quickly as the tables begin coming in over the next 4 weeks. I'm still curious as to how they're only going to displace 500 slots and be able to squeeze 150 table games in...I'm guessing there's going to be a lot of dust/rearrangement over the next month.
For a comparison point, Borgata has 4,000 slots and 200 tables (per Wikipedia). MD Live will be just about the same, once slots are removed to make way for table games and the poker tables get counted.
There should be a Miss. Stud table. To quote the email:
"122 live action table games, including Blackjack, Craps, Roulette, Mini-Baccarat, Pai Gow Poker, Pai Gow Tiles, Three Card Poker, Four Card Poker, Texas Hold 'Em, Mississippi Stud and Big Six."
I do hope that the competition forces Charlestown to loosen their tables, I noticed their craps tables have 2 and 12 only paying double.
I also hope that they bring back ultimate texas holdem.
I also hope that they bring back ultimate texas holdem. "
Judging on past management decision's, I expect them to tighten their tables to compensate for the decrease in customers.
Quote: BuzzardJudging on past management decision's, I expect them to tighten their tables to compensate for the decrease in customers.
I agree with Buzzard in that I think they'll do whatever they have to do to keep the money rolling in. I guess WV prohibits 6:5 blackjack, because I'm sure they would have thrown that in there if they could.
The last time I was there, I did notice one very small change, but in my mind it was significant: they have added licensed theme slots (Wheel of Fortune, Sex and the City, Hangover, etc). It's only a few, and they're probably set as tight as they can go, but before MD Live opened, they never had any major themed games at all.
The one thing that might save Charles Town for now is the NOVA/Western MD gamblers. Even when MD Live opens, Charles Town will still be a closer and more convenient destination, and the minimums certainly won't be going up. Rocky Gap will have little to no impact IMHO....500 slots and 10 tables won't even dent Charles Town's bottom line.
Quote: silversonic2006I think they'll do whatever they have to do to keep the money rolling in
Buzzard was joking that they would react by tightening [to no odds or something]. It's a fact that sometimes that is the reaction. There are always some Suits in any outfit who react to less traffic by demanding more profitable actions to get back the old profit level ... even when less traffic is caused by competition!
But let's hope you are right.
Quote: silversonic2006when MD Live opens, Charles Town will still be ... closer
I don't see that for Northern VA. According to google maps, even Fairfax VA 22031 is closer to Maryland Live [about the same actually]; more westerly Fairfax 22033 finally gets the nod as closer to Charles Town by a bit.
But I appreciate any updates you can give us on Charles Town. Sometime in the future I'll be moving and Charles Town will be the closest for me.
Quote: odiousgambitBuzzard was joking that they would react by tightening [to no odds or something]. It's a fact that sometimes that is the reaction. There are always some Suits in any outfit who react to less traffic by demanding more profitable actions to get back the old profit level ... even when less traffic is caused by competition!
But let's hope you are right.
I don't see that for Northern VA. According to google maps, even Fairfax VA 22031 is closer to Maryland Live [about the same actually]; more westerly Fairfax 22033 finally gets the nod as closer to Charles Town by a bit.
But I appreciate any updates you can give us on Charles Town. Sometime in the future I'll be moving and Charles Town will be the closest for me.
Odious,
I live west of Baltimore near I-70; and Charles Town is less than an hour for me...closest real casino. I go there about once a week when I don't have time for ACity trips. I can tell you they are absolutely sweating the opening of real casino gaming in MD. MD Live is bad enough. But the eventually PG county casino outside DC, and the Downtown Balt. one, is going to freaking kill them. I talked to a floorperson there a week or so ago who claims the slots action is down 20%-25% since MD live opened. The tables have been largely unaffected according to him(that will change soon). It's a nice facility with a good poker room, a nice horse track, and easy ingress/egress. But the staff has always seemed a little uppity to me, with very high minimums for tables.. That and their comp system is for crap. Also it's smokey as hell in there. This might be a WV thing. So I will be interested to see what changes are made, if any. Will keep you posted
Quote: vendman1But the staff has always seemed a little uppity to me, with very high minimums for tables.. That and their comp system is for crap.
Agreed, they've done nothing to make me a regular or appreciate being there.
I live in eastern NoVa right off of the Beltway... reasonably close to Live for VA. The trip is about 40-45 to Live, but on a bad day can jump over an hour. Gmaps underestimates this a little bit and doesn't take into account traffic on B-Wash parkway much at all. Charlestown is listed as 70 minutes but usually takes about 90. I believe that 22033 is a fair estimation of the "break even" point.
to win. Not a cent bet on him to win LOL Actually dispersed win pool at track to 2nd place horse.
Bookie teased Uncle Sharkey for several days saying he got track payoff $0.00
Then paid him $42. Damn near a weeks pay back then.
Got a good chuckle out of that one.
And generally speaking, I feel like machines help keep some of these tracks afloat. Hell, plunking down at the machines is one way to burn time between races as well. I went to a horse race for the first time last year. I enjoyed it, but it was mainly because I drank a lot and my winnings paid for the beer I drank...lol
MANY more table games were out on the flloor.
they also raised their e-Craps to $25min ($10 min at the bar), up from $10 min ($5 at bar).
but they kept the max at $2500 :(
Quote: 100xOddsthey also raised their e-Craps to $25min ($10 min at the bar)
Wow. Gotta only be during peaks. I usually see people with only like $100-$200 in I'm curious how this affects things.
Quote: ahiromuWow. Gotta only be during peaks. I usually see people with only like $100-$200 in I'm curious how this affects things.
all seats were still filled Sun at 1pm.
Quote: 100xOddsall seats were still filled Sun at 1pm.
True that, it's simple economics. They will set the minimums to maximize their take (the highest before it drives away so many players they see diminishing returns). Also, remember MD consider e-craps a "slot" so it's getting 67% or so of the profits, whereas they'll only get 20% from a live table, so a $25 e-craps table rakes in less than a $10 live table with players making identical bets. My guess is that once the new factor is gone, table mins will be similar to Parx PA.
I'll be very curious if and how table mins change at Charles Town once MD Live opens. It's smokier, the table rules and overall comps are tighter, and it's farther away...they'll have to do something to keep the players coming.
I stopped by Hollywood Perryville to get my $5 souvenir chip, just past lunchtime. All blackjack was $25-$500, all packed. Roulette and craps (3-4-5X odds) were $10 mins, pretty full but not as packed, and I didn't see what the carnival games were going for. With the slots gone for the tables, you really realize how tiny the casino is. They could probably safely make way for one more 10-12 table pit without too much trouble, if they choose.
Please let us know. I suspect they will tighten minimums to make up for lost customers. And YES, I am serious.
Quote: BuzzardI suspect they will tighten minimums to make up for lost customers. And YES, I am serious.
As much as I'd like to say they can't really get away with it, they probably can. Case in point: if you're a lower level player ($15 mins or less), Bellagio offers some of the best blackjack rules on the Strip, and Caesars still offers, and fills tables with, some of the worst blackjack rules I have EVER seen (6:5 shoe game, double 10/11 only, no DAS), often at higher minimums than Bellagio.
Players can vote with their feet, but choose not to exercise that right.
