Gun Deaths at Record Highs
Quote: bobbartopI was just thinking, whatever happened to the old saying, "going postal"? I never hear that anymore. Don't mailmen shoot anyone nowadays?
They stopped going postal when they stopped delivering come rain nor snow nor sleet nor hail.
Just an observation:)
Quote: bobbartopJust to be clear, guns save lives every day. No telling how many.
Thats an open ended statement
If you are including guns held by law enforcement or even our trained military then absolutely
Quote: darkozThats an open ended statement
If you are including guns held by law enforcement or even our trained military then absolutely
Well, I have to include those, but that's not my primary thinking. You don't know how many people save their own or someone else's life each day with a gun. It doesn't go on the front page.
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IMPERIAL, Calif. (KFSN) -- Authorities say a California prison inmate has died after he was attacked by two other prisoners.
It's the second death of a state prison inmate in two days.
State corrections officials say the 32-year-old man was beaten by two inmates Friday in a recreation yard at Centinela State Prison in Imperial.
Guards broke up the fight and began life-saving measures but the victim died at a hospital.
Quote: bobbartopYou don't know how many people save their own or someone else's life each day with a gun. It doesn't go on the front page.
YOU might not know. Most of us prefer education to lapping up propaganda.
Took 3 seconds to find. I've posted it myriad times, including the every time "good guy with a gun" was disparaged. Propaganda is a helluva drug
Quote: FaceYOU might not know. Most of us prefer education to lapping up propaganda.
You don't KNOW how many prefer lapping up propaganda.
Quote: bobbartopYou don't KNOW how many prefer lapping up propaganda.
One man's Bible is another man's propaganda
'When one person suffers from a delusion, it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion, it is called Religion.'”................Richard Dawkins
🇮🇳 🇦🇳 🇦🇵🇦🇷🇹🇲🇪🇳🇹 🇴🇷 🇨🇴🇳🇩🇴 🇴🇳🇪 🇲🇦🇳'🇸 🇨🇪🇮🇱🇮🇳🇬 🇮🇸 🇦🇳🇴🇹🇭🇪🇷 🇲🇦🇳'🇸 🇫🇱🇴🇴🇷
Quote: lilredrooster
'When one person suffers from a delusion, it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion, it is called Religion.'”................Richard Dawkins
""God is merely an elephant", said the blind man."
-- Bob Bartop, June 2, 2019
Quote: bobbartopYou don't KNOW how many prefer lapping up propaganda.
Why do you think I'm so pissed off all the time? Lol
Quote: bobbartopThere's just no place safe anymore.
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IMPERIAL, Calif. (KFSN) -- Authorities say a California prison inmate has died after he was attacked by two other prisoners.
It's the second death of a state prison inmate in two days.
State corrections officials say the 32-year-old man was beaten by two inmates Friday in a recreation yard at Centinela State Prison in Imperial.
Guards broke up the fight and began life-saving measures but the victim died at a hospital.
Not as safe as it used to be in Oz.
Quote: AZDuffmanNot as safe as it used to be in Oz.
Oz - fairyland with wicked witches and other scary creatures?
Oz - fictional prison where no one was safe?
Oz - Australia?
I don't have any firm position on gun control. But, if your argument is to limit access to the mentally ill, or keep military weapons out of the hands of civilians, then a guy with no red flags using a lower grade weapon is kind of a non-story.
Quote: bobbartopI can't help wondering when these things happen if there's anything we could do to stop this madness. I know many of this type of criminal expects to take his own life after the deal is done. So what can you do to stop someone with that mindset? I can't think of anything.
I think the glaringly obvious answer is to really treat mental illness. It seems epidemic in our society. I can theorize as to why. Diet. People are totally immersed in the alternative realities of movies, TV, games, internet and worst of all, advertising. Breakdown of the family. The elimination of stable working and middle class jobs. The absence of any moral structure. We are very, very far from the circumstances in which we evolved, chilling out in our huts in a small, close community, eating naturally and fearing the wrath of the moon god.
In any case, lots of people are alienated and ill. Mass shootings are the glaringly obvious manifestations. But we have millions who are homeless, in prison, neglectful or abusive parents, drug/alcohol addicts, etc. etc. and it winds up hurting everyone and costing oceans of money.
IDK all the answers, but a really easy one is to spend a small amount of money giving kids tasty and nutritious food in school. We know that it helps a lot. We know that it's cheap. They've tried it and it works. But there is no incentive for ruthlessly corrupt politicians and their owners to implement it. If anything, they want MORE instablity among the masses.
In the ancient world, everyone studied moral philosophy in school just as much as math. This was broader than what we mean by moral philosophy today. It was, how to be happy. How to deal with your problems. How to treat other people. How to not worry about what others thought of you.
Later, it was religion, which is inferior, but still better than nothing. Some of religious study deals with these subjects, at least. If it's good.
Now it's nothing.
Make moral (in the big sense) hygene part of regular school. I've heard that some schools have replaced detention with meditation classes. Instead of sending kids negative messages and wasting their time, they are taught to address their problems. Seems smart to me. We'll never do it.
+1
Quote: Rigondeaux
I think the glaringly obvious answer is to really treat mental illness. It seems epidemic in our society.
Bring back "Ol Sparky" and even the mentally ill will get the fkg message. No more needles like it's your 16-year old pet dog. No more 20-year appeals either. And start televising executions. Get rid of The View and replace it with morning executions. It will get good Nielsen Ratings, trust me. And crime, will go DOWN.
Quote: bobbartopBring back "Ol Sparky" and even the mentally ill will get the fkg message. No more needles like it's your 16-year old pet dog. No more 20-year appeals either. And start televising executions. Get rid of The View and replace it with morning executions. It will get good Nielsen Ratings, trust me. And crime, will go DOWN.
If you want to make a bigger impact use the gas chamber. That might have been the worst way to go after hanging.
Quote: bobbartopBring back "Ol Sparky" and even the mentally ill will get the fkg message. No more needles like it's your 16-year old pet dog. No more 20-year appeals either. And start televising executions. Get rid of The View and replace it with morning executions. It will get good Nielsen Ratings, trust me. And crime, will go DOWN.
Except that, in how many of the recent mass shootings was the shooter taken alive?
Quote: ThatDonGuyExcept that, in how many of the recent mass shootings was the shooter taken alive?
Good point, which is what I mentioned in a post up-thread. I don't have an answer to that. But the goofball who killed 12 people and injured 70 in a movie theater in Aurora, Colorado did that in 2012. That was seven years ago. He DID IT. What are they waiting for? OLD SPARKY!
Quote: bobbartopBring back "Ol Sparky" and even the mentally ill will get the fkg message. (snip) And crime, will go DOWN.
"2+2 = potatoes au gratin" is a more accurate statement than the above.
Quote: bobbartopGood point, which is what I mentioned in a post up-thread. I don't have an answer to that. But the goofball who killed 12 people and injured 70 in a movie theater in Aurora, Colorado did that in 2012. That was seven years ago. He DID IT. What are they waiting for? OLD SPARKY!
There are 737 scumbags sitting on Death Row in California. Some have been there, "appealing", for 30 years. They're LAUGHING at society. Our new Governor has declared there will be no executions while he is governor.
Here is an excellent article in the Los Angeles Times. Trust me, you could spend hours reading it. Pay particular attention to Richard Benson. They are in alphabetical order. Click the photo, and you get the details. I won't post the crime, it's too rough, but there were four victims, and he DID IT in 1986. 32 years on Death Row. WHY?
https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-me-death-row/
Quote: Face"2+2 = potatoes au gratin" is a more accurate statement than the above.
Ok, I'll humor you. You're wrong, but I'll give you the benefit. Let's say getting tougher on murderers will not be a deterrent. Scroll down, or up, to my post with the article from the Los Angeles Times. Click on Benson. 32 years he has slept in a cot each night. 32 years he has had three square meals a day. 32 years they even fix his teeth and give him glasses. 32 years his victims have been dead. 32 years there has been no justice. Go on, click on him.
Quote: bobbartopOk, I'll humor you. You're wrong, but I'll give you the benefit. Let's say getting tougher on murderers will not be a deterrent. Scroll down, or up, to my post with the article from the Los Angeles Times. Click on Benson. 32 years he has slept in a cot each night. 32 years he has had three square meals a day. 32 years they even fix his teeth and give him glasses. 32 years his victims have been dead. 32 years there has been no justice. Go on, click on him.
Is a needle in the arm justice for the victims? Is life without parole justice for the victims? Is 32 years of life on The Row justice for the victims? Is our new governor's moratorium on the death penalty justice for the victims?
OLD SPARKY = JUSTICE.
Quote: bobbartopBring back "Ol Sparky" and even the mentally ill will get the fkg message. No more needles like it's your 16-year old pet dog. No more 20-year appeals either. And start televising executions. Get rid of The View and replace it with morning executions. It will get good Nielsen Ratings, trust me. And crime, will go DOWN.
Well it's like detention vs meditation.
Hated, fear and violence breeds more of the same.
You can either kick people in the teeth or help them. Right now we kick them in the teeth. More and more.
Doesn't seem to work too well. Obviously, it's not so great for all the people being kicked. But it spills back onto everyone.
Somehow I doubt that masturbating to someone being executed will solve the problems.
Quote: AZDuffmanIf you want to make a bigger impact use the gas chamber. That might have been the worst way to go after hanging.
Poll the executees. Before, and after.
Quote: Rigondeaux
You can either kick people in the teeth or help them. Right now we kick them in the teeth. More and more.
No we don't. What is your problem? 737 on Death Row. None of them kicked in the teeth.
Did you want to help Charles Manson? He had a rough childhood.
Quote: Rigondeaux
Somehow I doubt that masturbating to someone being executed will solve the problems.
Change the channel.
is the point to kill a member of society detrimental to it or inflict pain?Quote: bobbartopIs a needle in the arm justice for the victims? Is life without parole justice for the victims? Is 32 years of life on The Row justice for the victims? Is our new governor's moratorium on the death penalty justice for the victims?
OLD SPARKY = JUSTICE.
Different reasons. One is getting rid of refuse. The other is getting a form of revenge.
Quote: Face"2+2 = potatoes au gratin" is a more accurate statement than the above.
Ok, let me give this another try. Let's say that we get tougher on murderers. But the screwballs who have a death wish anyway are not deterred. They keep on committing atrocities. Meanwhile, the screwballs who don't want to die, are deterred. Crime rate goes down. Do the math. Simple as 2+2.
The stupidest story is Nevada saying they can't execute anyone because no company will sell them the chemicals that they say they need. Yet the state has ready right in front of them scores, if not hundreds, of experts in acquiring and handling, say, fentanyl, supposedly one of the most lethal substances.Quote: bobbartopBring back "Ol Sparky" and even the mentally ill will get the fkg message. No more needles like it's your 16-year old pet dog. No more 20-year appeals either. And start televising executions. Get rid of The View and replace it with morning executions. It will get good Nielsen Ratings, trust me. And crime, will go DOWN.
Quote: darkozis the point to kill a member of society detrimental to it or inflict pain?
Different reasons. One is getting rid of refuse. The other is getting a form of revenge.
Sounds like a win-win.
Society did not make anyone commit heinous crimes. Personally, I wish no one had to be put down. But they leave society no option. They MAKE society have a death penalty.
And life without parole is not a good substitute. Ask them? Which would the killer prefer? 99% will choose Life Without. Ask them which would they prefer? A needle, or Old Sparky. I rest my case.
Quote: SanchoPanzaThe stupidest story is Nevada saying they can't execute anyone because no company will sell them the chemicals that they say they need. Yet the state has ready right in front of them scores, if not hundreds, of experts in acquiring and handling, say, fentanyl, supposedly one of the most lethal substances.
Is lead a chemical? Firing Squad. Quick, and humane. No 8th Amendment issues.
Lead is No. 82 on the Periodic Table. But fentanyl is reportedly used by millions (I was given it twice in very tiny amounts in the last 12 months over my protests) and kills tens of thousands annually.Quote: bobbartopIs lead a chemical? Firing Squad. Quick, and humane. No 8th Amendment issues.
Quote: bobbartopOk, I'll humor you. You're wrong, but I'll give you the benefit. Let's say getting tougher on murderers will not be a deterrent. Scroll down, or up, to my post with the article from the Los Angeles Times. Click on Benson. 32 years he has slept in a cot each night. 32 years he has had three square meals a day. 32 years they even fix his teeth and give him glasses. 32 years his victims have been dead. 32 years there has been no justice. Go on, click on him.
Ooh, a rare opportunity to argue against myself. For the record, my views on crime and punishment are largely Old Testamental.
I am with you in spirit. I often call for public flogging, and I'm not sure if I've ever been joking. You start talking about people getting 6mths probation for the repeated raping of their own toddler for no other reason than the person is rich (or a good athlete, or insert horses#$% here), and I'll pay every cent I have to wield the whip personally. I've shared stories here, and if you don't think I have addresses waiting for the day I get a diagnosis, you give me too much credit.
But., the problem is one of certainty and responsibility. On the former, we have cases overflowing of folks who are being let out after years of wrongful imprisonment. Perhaps you could make a case for incidents in which there is zero question, though you can imagine how difficult and few such cases are. But to kill someone over our famously errant and outright corrupt justice system is a tough row to hoe. Damn me if I ever promote giving such power to the state freely, sincerely. It is faithless, and not something we should use for even incapacitation punishment (jail), let alone corporal and capital.
On the latter, of all the literal millions of hours of study on human psychology and behavior, we champion and promote nearly zero. Here's some facts you can argue if you dare, on what it takes to create a decent human being... security, both in person and in life; support, both financial and emotional; education, both book and street. We know, almost instinctively, that "it takes a village". Some know that we are our brother's keeper. Most should know that more hands makes less work. Is that what you see being promoted, Brother Bob? Cuz what I see from my seat is fear mongering, division, and non-stop, lifelong teaching that happiness is just one purchase away.
I'm toying with a new philosophy. I'm wondering if many of the murderers, rapists, sociopathic billionaires and all the others who make my whippin hand itch are not animals but rather victims. After all, if the system is corrupt, isn't it the system itself which is the real enemy? When a child is ignored and abused at home and then blows up the school, is it the child's fault? The school's?
I'm not gonna go full apologist, and I sure as s#$% ain't gonna hold your hand and sing kumbaya,...but I do think true monsters are rare indeed. I think a vast, VAST majority of the monsters we see could've been prevent through positive and productive means. And until or unless that has been satisfied, my whip stays holstered.
Quote: FaceOoh, a rare opportunity to argue against myself. For the record, my views on crime and punishment are largely Old Testamental.
I am with you in spirit. I often call for public flogging, and I'm not sure if I've ever been joking. You start talking about people getting 6mths probation for the repeated raping of their own toddler for no other reason than the person is rich (or a good athlete, or insert horses#$% here), and I'll pay every cent I have to wield the whip personally. I've shared stories here, and if you don't think I have addresses waiting for the day I get a diagnosis, you give me too much credit.
But., the problem is one of certainty and responsibility. On the former, we have cases overflowing of folks who are being let out after years of wrongful imprisonment. Perhaps you could make a case for incidents in which there is zero question, though you can imagine how difficult and few such cases are. But to kill someone over our famously errant and outright corrupt justice system is a tough row to hoe. Damn me if I ever promote giving such power to the state freely, sincerely. It is faithless, and not something we should use for even incapacitation punishment (jail), let alone corporal and capital.
On the latter, of all the literal millions of hours of study on human psychology and behavior, we champion and promote nearly zero. Here's some facts you can argue if you dare, on what it takes to create a decent human being... security, both in person and in life; support, both financial and emotional; education, both book and street. We know, almost instinctively, that "it takes a village". Some know that we are our brother's keeper. Most should know that more hands makes less work. Is that what you see being promoted, Brother Bob? Cuz what I see from my seat is fear mongering, division, and non-stop, lifelong teaching that happiness is just one purchase away.
I'm toying with a new philosophy. I'm wondering if many of the murderers, rapists, sociopathic billionaires and all the others who make my whippin hand itch are not animals but rather victims. After all, if the system is corrupt, isn't it the system itself which is the real enemy? When a child is ignored and abused at home and then blows up the school, is it the child's fault? The school's?
I'm not gonna go full apologist, and I sure as s#$% ain't gonna hold your hand and sing kumbaya,...but I do think true monsters are rare indeed. I think a vast, VAST majority of the monsters we see could've been prevent through positive and productive means. And until or unless that has been satisfied, my whip stays holstered.
I'm going to go ahead and click the thank you button on you. So thank me for that.
But, I got two teenie weenie remarks about your fine reply.
The first one, you mentioned education as adding to making a decent person, both book and street. I disagree, respectfully, Brother Face. My grand parents had no education. And no money. But they were kind, good, and decent. Go figure.
In closing your reply, you mentioned that you think true monsters are rare indeed. Omg, you poor, but nice hearted, fool. I take it, Brother Face, you have never done any time. You poor, sheltered, nice man. Stay safe, live long, sir.
I'm talking about intervening and helping people before the bad outcomes happen, as opposed to working to create bad outcomes, then punishing them, which is what we do now.
Our society absolutely kicks people's teeth in when they have issues. We have the world's highest incarceration rate BY FAR. Most are non violent. Most have mental health issues. Many were merely self medicating undiagnosed problems.
I've worked in schools and normal youthful misbehavior is criminalized now more than ever. Kids who cut class, fight, shoplift, drink underage, do minor vandalism, etc. are given tickets by real cops and a criminal record is built against them so that they can be incarcerated. Of course, we've all heard the stories of kids being expelled for making a gun shape with their hand or kissing a girl or whatever.
Now, some of these things have always been illegal. But I'd venture to say most, if not all of us, were caught doing some of these things without any dire repercussions. Kids do dumb stuff. Used to be, the cop takes you home and your parents would take corrective action.
What is being done about treatment and prevention in schools, where many kids are coming from terrible homes? Pretty much nothing. It's punish punish punish. And clearly, that doesn't help.
Mentally ill adults who are not incarcerated are thrown on the streets. Didn't used to be.
Addressing these problems in other circumstances is not a very high priority. If you are not well off, getting treatment, or even discovering what is wrong with you is an uphill battle.
Messed up kids become bullies. Bullied kids become shooters. Abused kids become abusive parents. Neglected kids join gains. It's all a cycle. Escalating cruelty further and further perpetuates it. It doesn't break it.
Again, removing dangerous people from society is great. But becoming aroused at killing other people ostensibly because they deserve it (Not the real reason. It's just an excuse.) is symptomatic of the greater problem.
While that's what i was thinking of, I don't use education to imply necessarily k-12, nor even university level. I'm sure grandparents got educated somehow. In fact, what I consider my greatest education and what has served me more than anything (and founded what good there is inside me) came by no more than engaged time spent with elders. To have loving parents to set a good example. Grandparents who didn't shy to teach knives at 5 and guns at 8. Just the simple fact of being included in chorin', not sent off to be safe, not sent off to get out of the way, but included to set an example and show that you are a part of something. A little bit of patience and an encouraging attitude goes a long way to fertilizing a proper child, and I find our modern society to be a major fail on this part, a bit too "Lord of the Flies" in many aspects. It, much like teaching HOW to think instead of WHAT to think of formalized education, are huge factors to much if the strife we now face. IMO.
And no, none of my life has ever been hosted by the state. But I'll bet all of the monies that for every monster you show me, there'll be a history of abuse or neglect. True psychopaths make up ~25% of the prison population (a mental illness we treat via ignorance and then incarceration). Those other 75%, literal millions, were once 7lbs of warm meat full of all the potential. And people, well, I just don't think they "go bad". They can be turned, sure, but that can be prevented, retarded. We just gotta wanta.
Quote: Face
I'm toying with a new philosophy. I'm wondering if many of the murderers, rapists, sociopathic billionaires and all the others who make my whippin hand itch are not animals but rather victims. After all, if the system is corrupt, isn't it the system itself which is the real enemy? When a child is ignored and abused at home and then blows up the school, is it the child's fault? The school's?
I'm not gonna go full apologist, and I sure as s#$% ain't gonna hold your hand and sing kumbaya,...but I do think true monsters are rare indeed. I think a vast, VAST majority of the monsters we see could've been prevent through positive and productive means. And until or unless that has been satisfied, my whip stays holstered.
This is correct, imo, which isn't worth much. But I've been convinced by wiser men.
Marcus Aurelius, one of the few men to ever have absolute power and not be corrupted, said something to this effect. If you have a 100% understanding of another person, you cannot be mad at them.
Meaning, if you could see every factor leading up to their behavior, you would understand that it was more or less inevitable.
That doesn't mean it goes unpunished. But it means you pity them, if anything, rather than acting out of your own sadism.
Now, they didn't really understand psychopathy back then. That's probably what you mean by "monster." Though, it seems most psychopaths skate through life largely undetected, often finding success as journalists, politicians, LEOs, and in other professions where they feel powerful.
But even a psychopath is basically just wired that way. Maybe you lock them up and throw away the key but it is what it is.
Another way to think about it is something like, stepping on a nail or getting bit by a wild animal. You don't like it. But to actually be angry at the nail for being pointy or a biting animal for biting is foolishness.
Long story short. I brought a bunch of shotgun shell primer caps to school and we were setting them off. One kid was a little too close to his when he set it off and it went through his finger. I got like 3 days in school suspension, basically study hall(not even after school detention, LOL).Quote: RigondeauxObviously, I'm not talking about giving Charles Manson a hug box and sending him on his way. I have no problem with locking up people who have proven that they like harming others. If every rapist and murderer got life, I'd be pretty OK with that.
I'm talking about intervening and helping people before the bad outcomes happen, as opposed to working to create bad outcomes, then punishing them, which is what we do now.
Our society absolutely kicks people's teeth in when they have issues. We have the world's highest incarceration rate BY FAR. Most are non violent. Most have mental health issues. Many were merely self medicating undiagnosed problems.
I've worked in schools and normal youthful misbehavior is criminalized now more than ever. Kids who cut class, fight, shoplift, drink underage, do minor vandalism, etc. are given tickets by real cops and a criminal record is built against them so that they can be incarcerated. Of course, we've all heard the stories of kids being expelled for making a gun shape with their hand or kissing a girl or whatever.
Now, some of these things have always been illegal. But I'd venture to say most, if not all of us, were caught doing some of these things without any dire repercussions. Kids do dumb stuff. Used to be, the cop takes you home and your parents would take corrective action.
What is being done about treatment and prevention in schools, where many kids are coming from terrible homes? Pretty much nothing. It's punish punish punish. And clearly, that doesn't help.
Mentally ill adults who are not incarcerated are thrown on the streets. Didn't used to be.
Addressing these problems in other circumstances is not a very high priority. If you are not well off, getting treatment, or even discovering what is wrong with you is an uphill battle.
Messed up kids become bullies. Bullied kids become shooters. Abused kids become abusive parents. Neglected kids join gains. It's all a cycle. Escalating cruelty further and further perpetuates it. It doesn't break it.
Again, removing dangerous people from society is great. But becoming aroused at killing other people ostensibly because they deserve it (Not the real reason. It's just an excuse.) is symptomatic of the greater problem.
We made bombs. We lit stuff on fire, using any fluids we could find marked "flammable." I got drunk. I'm sorry to say, drove drunk (that one should carry a pretty stiff penalty.) One time, while sober, I intentionally rear ended my friend. I cut class. I've never been a fighter, but did have a couple scraps. One time my friend and I had a competition to see who would draw the biggest swastika on our desks. Not because we were nazis, but because that was the thing that would get you in the most trouble if you were caught. Kids would smuggle illegal fireworks in from Mexico and sell them. One of my BFs sold pot. Today he is a medical doctor.
And my upbringing was like a 50s sitcom.
Those are just things I remember off the top of my head.
Kids are idiots.
A kid who did half of that stuff now, especially a poor kid, would be treated like Hanibal Lechter.
Quote: Rigondeaux
We have the world's highest incarceration rate BY FAR. Most are non violent.
gtfo You don't know wtf you're talking about. Pick any of the 30+ facilities in California, and you don't wanna go there, buddy. If you do, you better learn violent. And learn it fast. And no race mixing.
Quote: bobbartopgtfo You don't know wtf you're talking about. Pick any of the 30+ facilities in California, and you don't wanna go there, buddy. If you do, you better learn violent. And learn it fast. And no race mixing.
You are confusing what he is saying.
He is saying many were convicted for non-violent crimes. Drug selling for example.
Certainly the facilities are violent
Quote: darkozYou are confusing what he is saying.
He is saying many were convicted for non-violent crimes. Drug selling for example.
Certainly the facilities are violent
Perhaps, but I think he's more confused than I am. And generally, you don't go the pen without an established pattern of some seriously anti-social behaviour. They got other places to divert to before the pen. So don't tell me about non-violent hippies going to the pen for selling a couple joints. That's BS. The pen is some serious sh*t. And you either p.c. it up, hang yourself, or deal with it. That's reality.
Here's Robert. He's a Fresno Bull Dog. That's neither northerner, nor southerner. It's Bull Dog. And although north and south have their own allies and enemies, and southerners generally dominate California as a whole, Bull Dogs don't give a fk about nothing. Nothing and nobody.
This link is difficult to work, it ain't youtube. If you can navigate it and somehow get to the arrow that starts the video, you'll meet Robert. This link probably won't be valid forever. Meet Robert, and then somebody get back to me about how good mankind basically is. Thanks.
https://www.msnbc.com/lockup/watch/lockup-raw-predatory-behavior-325005379949
Quote: bobbartopgtfo You don't know wtf you're talking about. Pick any of the 30+ facilities in California, and you don't wanna go there, buddy. If you do, you better learn violent. And learn it fast. And no race mixing.
Some stubborn things:
I think this is just federal prison.
https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_offenses.jsp
In 2016, there were an estimated 1.2 million violent crimes committed in the United States.[36] Over the course of that year, U.S. law enforcement agencies made approximately 10.7 million arrests, excluding arrests for traffic violations.[36] In that year, approximately 2.3 million people were incarcerated in jail or prison.[37]
Felony Sentences in State Courts, study by the United States Department of Justice
As of September 30, 2009 in federal prisons, 7.9% of sentenced prisoners were incarcerated for violent crimes,[31] while at year end 2008 of sentenced prisoners in state prisons, 52.4% had been jailed for violent crimes.[31] In 2002 (latest available data by type of offense), 21.6% of convicted inmates in jails were in prison for violent crimes. Among unconvicted inmates in jails in 2002, 34% had a violent offense as the most serious charge. 41% percent of convicted and unconvicted jail inmates in 2002 had a current or prior violent offense; 46% were nonviolent recidivists.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_States#Violent_and_nonviolent_crime
Notice the unconvicted. It's now fairly common to jail people for long periods of time without trial. I've mentioned before that a friend of mine, 41 years old with no criminal record, was jailed and had to come up with $3k (nonrefundable) to make a $30k bail. The charges were absurd and later dismissed.
Of course, there are tons of hardened, dangerous criminals as well. So, again, you can try to prevent people from becoming that way. Or, you can promote them becoming that way, wait for them to hurt somebody, then spend tons of money keeping them in a cage.
Quote: Rigondeaux
Of course, there are tons of hardened, dangerous criminals as well. So, again, you can try to prevent people from becoming that way. Or, you can promote them becoming that way, wait for them to hurt somebody, then spend tons of money keeping them in a cage.
I can't believe you're quoting wikipedia again. To ME? lol Are you crazy? My last insane rant about Wikipedia wasn't good enough for you? lol
When you talk about the cost of keeping people in a cage, I think we're digressing off the original path. I'm talking about executing people. Specifically, the 737 on California's Death Row I mentioned. Execute every single stinking pos on those three cell blocks. Not to save money, but because they DESERVE IT.
Quote: RigondeauxOne of my BFs sold pot.
Lol one of your boyfriends sold pot?
Quote: darkozYou are confusing what he is saying.
He is saying many were convicted for non-violent crimes. Drug selling for example.
Certainly the facilities are violent
I would highly dispute selling drugs is a non violent crime. While, I agree, the act of selling drugs is nonviolent, oftentimes the back story is far different. Many times, drugs are sold by gang members who fight and often kill for the territory to sell these drugs to the consumer and to keep and/or expand their territory. In order to sell drugs, one almost has to be a violent person, or at least someone who has the ability to at least become violent
Quote: Gabes22I would highly dispute selling drugs is a non violent crime. While, I agree, the act of selling drugs is nonviolent, oftentimes the back story is far different. Many times, drugs are sold by gang members who fight and often kill for the territory to sell these drugs to the consumer and to keep and/or expand their territory. In order to sell drugs, one almost has to be a violent person, or at least someone who has the ability to at least become violent
For some, yes, for others, no. Black gangs selling on a street corner have to be violent to even get their real estate to sell on. Whites are more likely to sell via "network marketing." Meet a customer, get some referrals, repeat. Make deliveries or just quietly sell out of a front business. While there might have been violence in the upstream part of the business, this kind of dealer can work for years even decades and not bother anyone, while nobody bothers them.
Quote: bobbartopI can't believe you're quoting wikipedia again. To ME? lol Are you crazy? My last insane rant about Wikipedia wasn't good enough for you? lol
Scroll to the bottom of that Wikipedia link. There are over 300 sources EXTERNAL to Wikipedia. Wikipedia is not a "source." It is an aggregate for many sources.
That good enough for you?
Quote: Gabes22I would highly dispute selling drugs is a non violent crime. While, I agree, the act of selling drugs is nonviolent, oftentimes the back story is far different. Many times, drugs are sold by gang members who fight and often kill for the territory to sell these drugs to the consumer and to keep and/or expand their territory. In order to sell drugs, one almost has to be a violent person, or at least someone who has the ability to at least become violent
Many drug busts are for the mules I believe is the correct term.
Girlfriends who are asked to carry and transport for example.
At any rate people dont get convicted on backstories. If you are caught selling dope, the charge is selling dope. The crime of selling dope is nonviolent
