Gun Deaths at Record Highs
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/week-of-sandy-hook-remembrance-brings-cdc-data-showing-2017-gun-deaths-at-highest-level-in-nearly-40-years-2018-12-14
http://time.com/5479993/gun-deaths-us-cdc/
Quote: articleThe age-adjusted rate of firearm deaths per 100,000 people rose from 10.3 per 100,000 in 1999 to 12 per 100,000 in 2017.
An increase of less than 2 people per 100,000 in 18 years!
IOW, a rounding error not even worthy of reporting.
Why on earth the CDC even tracks gun deaths is a mystery as guns <> "disease."
Fugheddabaddit and get on with your day.
Quote: AZDuffmanQuote: articleThe age-adjusted rate of firearm deaths per 100,000 people rose from 10.3 per 100,000 in 1999 to 12 per 100,000 in 2017.
An increase of less than 2 people per 100,000 in 18 years!
IOW, a rounding error not even worthy of reporting.
Why on earth the CDC even tracks gun deaths is a mystery as guns <> "disease."
Fugheddabaddit and get on with your day.
Yes...yes...just ignore it. Who cares if your kid gets shot next.
Such nonsense.
Read the caption just above the picture posted.Quote: beachbumbabsQuote: AZDuffmanQuote: articleThe age-adjusted rate of firearm deaths per 100,000 people rose from 10.3 per 100,000 in 1999 to 12 per 100,000 in 2017.
An increase of less than 2 people per 100,000 in 18 years!
IOW, a rounding error not even worthy of reporting.
Why on earth the CDC even tracks gun deaths is a mystery as guns <> "disease."
Fugheddabaddit and get on with your day.
Yes...yes...just ignore it. Who cares if your kid gets shot next.
Such nonsense.
Quote: beachbumbabs
Yes...yes...just ignore it. Who cares if your kid gets shot next.
Such nonsense.
Considering you can take out half that number due to suicides, we are at 5 per 100,000.
Not a big problem.
Tell your kid not to engage in gang activity, the number falls even more.
Worry about something that is an actual threat.
Quote: lilredrooster39,773 people were shot dead in 2017 - 10,000 more than in 1999
Does that include the 60 or so shot dead in the UK?
How about the 700 or so TOTAL murders here?
I know.... we're repressed, restricted, reigned over.
Quote: OnceDearDoes that include the 60 or so shot dead in the UK?
here in the U.S. it works out to be on average:
𝟏𝟎𝟗 𝐏𝐄𝐎𝐏𝐋𝐄 𝐒𝐇𝐎𝐓 𝐃𝐄𝐀𝐃 𝐄𝐕𝐄𝐑𝐘 𝐒𝐈𝐍𝐆𝐋𝐄 𝐃𝐀𝐘
Quote: lilredroosterhere in the U.S. it works out to be on average:
𝟏𝟎𝟗 𝐏𝐄𝐎𝐏𝐋𝐄 𝐒𝐇𝐎𝐓 𝐃𝐄𝐀𝐃 𝐄𝐕𝐄𝐑𝐘 𝐒𝐈𝐍𝐆𝐋𝐄 𝐃𝐀𝐘
Just 2 per state. That is pretty darned low! 4 people will die in car crashes just while you watch the NFL pregame!
Quote: AZDuffman4 people will die in car crashes just while you watch the NFL pregame!
deaths from motor vehicle in 2017: .......................... 37,133
shot dead in 2017:..............................................................39,773
in 1999 deaths from motor vehicles was 41,717 - it's gone down not up
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in_U.S._by_year
Quote: lilredroosterdeaths from motor vehicle in 2017: .......................... 37,133
shot dead in 2017:..............................................................39,773
in 1999 deaths from motor vehicles was 41,717 - it's gone down not up
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in_U.S._by_year
Maybe it was injured, not died. But we had that stat in a safety class once. Either way, 2 per state per day is a very low number not worth worth grabbing guns.
Quote: AZDuffmanMaybe it was injured, not died. But we had that stat in a safety class once. Either way, 2 per state per day is a very low number not worth worth grabbing guns.
Yet you think it is a valid reason to throw out facts and argue and complain with the only intention to distort any conversation
Quote: AZDuffmanConsidering you can take out half that number due to suicides, we are at 5 per 100,000.
Suicide is by far the main reason there should be barriers to accessing guns, especially for young people
Quote: AZDuffmanQuote: articleThe age-adjusted rate of firearm deaths per 100,000 people rose from 10.3 per 100,000 in 1999 to 12 per 100,000 in 2017.
An increase of less than 2 people per 100,000 in 18 years!
IOW, a rounding error not even worthy of reporting.
Why on earth the CDC even tracks gun deaths is a mystery as guns <> "disease."
Fugheddabaddit and get on with your day.
Can't let you get away with this one AD! The increase in gun deaths wold pass ANY statistical significance model you would like to use. FACT--- Gun deaths have increased per capita over the last decade.
You can argue that the hamstringing of police departments by groups like BLM is a cause of it. You can argue that letting more baddies out of jail sooner leads to it. You can argue it is just a sign of the increase in suicides and if it wasn't guns it would be something else. Lots of possibilities, but can't deny that there are more gun related deaths now than a decade ago. You can also decide how important it is to reduce those.
A different poster posted around the same number of traffic deaths as gun deaths. I GUARANTEE I could cut those deaths in half or more tomorrow; lower the speed limit to 40mph nationwide. Who is against lowering traffic deaths by 50% ME!!!!!
Quote: TomGSuicide is by far the main reason there should be barriers to accessing guns, especially for young people
Why? I would say few people thinking of suicide go out and buy a gun to do it. Far more likely they have had a gun for years, or someone they know had one for years that they obtain.
If someone wants to kill themselves they will find a way. No reason for more draconian laws to avoid one way.
As to young people, maybe make our schools less like minimum security prisons? Get rid of the troublemaker students? Quit telling the males they are dog dirt? Quit telling the white males they are dog dirt wrapped in cat crap? Quit telling the females they are useless if their desire is ti be a mother and not pursue a career?
Just some thoughts.
As a Brit, I cannot have a gun legally. Despite what you might read, they (and ammunition) are hard to acquire ilegally.Quote: TomGSuicide is by far the main reason there should be barriers to accessing guns, especially for young people
Do I want one?: No.
Am I ever likely to need one?: Hell no.
If I thought that there was a real danger of a criminal attacking my home with a gun, might I be tempted to acquire one myself, would I get one?: Maybe.
If I were in the same position and in the US, where gun crime is a big issue, might I get one?: Quite possibly.
Guns being freely available makes gun ownership justifiable.
Justifiable gun ownership makes guns freely available.*
A rather vicious circle.
BUT, my own carelessness, occasional intoxication and possibly mental instability tomorrow is a given... So, on balance, sane me of today says that less sane me of tomorrow should not have a gun. Period. That would be the deal breaker if I lived in the US with its current gun laws.
*How anyone can justify Joe public having an assault rifle in his home sort of escapes me.
Quote: OnceDear
*How anyone can justify Joe public having an assault rifle in his home sort of escapes me.
Just look at history Indian Wars to Nazi Germany. Unarmed people are at risk. Look at Mexico today, gangs run the place, the population is mostly unarmed.
If I lived in a place where armed gangs ran the place, I might well suitably arm myself. Do armed gangs run your place?Quote: AZDuffmanJust look at history Indian Wars to Nazi Germany. Unarmed people are at risk. Look at Mexico today, gangs run the place, the population is mostly unarmed.
Quote: AZDuffmanWhy? I would say few people thinking of suicide go out and buy a gun to do it. Far more likely they have had a gun for years, or someone they know had one for years that they obtain.
Very few teenagers have been gun owners for years before they use one in a suicide.
(Saying they may have known a gun owner for years is just being silly. Knowing someone with a gun is far different than having access to a gun)
Quote: billryanI wonder what Az would say if Muslim terrorist were killing two people per state per day.
Two people per state per year would open eyes. But no one ever addresses my speed limit analogy. There are so many restrictive things we can do that will save lives (ban smoking cigarettes, speed limit 40, breathalyzer to run a car, ban sugared sodas) but we decide that the lives saved by these restrictions are not worth it. Some believe that gun ownership rights are in that category.
Quote: TomGVery few teenagers have been gun owners for years before they use one in a suicide.
(Saying they may have known a gun owner for years is just being silly. Knowing someone with a gun is far different than having access to a gun)
Not silly at all. If their parents have a gun in the house they have access to it. In fact, that is probably where most teens who use a gun for suicide would get said access.
So, should more parents have a gun in the house? should daddy stay armed guard over the gun cabinet and shoot sonny boy a glancing wound if he had some sort of episode and tried to take the gun. What iff daddy flips. Should mommy also stand guard and train her gun on daddy? Best give sonny a gun so he can keep an eye on mommy.Quote: AZDuffmanNot silly at all. If their parents have a gun in the house they have access to it. In fact, that is probably where most teens who use a gun for suicide would get said access.
Quote: OnceDearAs a Brit, I cannot have a gun legally. Despite what you might read, they (and ammunition) are hard to acquire ilegally.
Do I want one?: No.
Am I ever likely to need one?: Hell no.
If I thought that there was a real danger of a criminal attacking my home with a gun, might I be tempted to acquire one myself, would I get one?: Maybe.
If I were in the same position and in the US, where gun crime is a big issue, might I get one?: Quite possibly.
Guns being freely available makes gun ownership justifiable.
Justifiable gun ownership makes guns freely available.*
A rather vicious circle.
BUT, my own carelessness, occasional intoxication and possibly mental instability tomorrow is a given... So, on balance, sane me of today says that less sane me of tomorrow should not have a gun. Period. That would be the deal breaker if I lived in the US with its current gun laws.
*How anyone can justify Joe public having an assault rifle in his home sort of escapes me.
Get over it OD, the redcoats lost. You just don’t understand how cool it is to shoot a gun sometimes. This is literally what the Boston tea party was about the permission to go out to the range and shoot your rifle or go deer hunting or shoot cactuses (cacti?) when you feel like it.
Quote: SOOPOOTwo people per state per year would open eyes. But no one ever addresses my speed limit analogy. There are so many restrictive things we can do that will save lives (ban smoking cigarettes, speed limit 40, breathalyzer to run a car, ban sugared sodas) but we decide that the lives saved by these restrictions are not worth it. Some believe that gun ownership rights are in that category.
If we wanted to cut down on non-suicide gun deaths the place to start would be places like Chicago. The fact is the cities with the most gun violence have the most gun restrictions. If the FBI decided to concentrate on violent gangs in these areas the same as they did on the mafia back in the 70s/80s they might make some real progress.
Dirty little secret is this kind of crime is a Black on Black problem. Second dirty little secret is when cops try to clean up these areas, "Black Leaders" scream and get the rent-a-mob crowd to go march on wherever. So as long as the violence stays in these areas nobody does anything. It affects gun death stats, but an attitude of, "If they want to shoot each other, let them!" prevails, even if nobody will admit it.
Guns are not causing the problem, our collapsing society is causing the problem.
Quote: AZDuffmanNot silly at all. If their parents have a gun in the house they have access to it.
Only if the parents are horribly irresponsible. And with all rights come responsibilities
Quote: AZDuffmanIn fact, that is probably where most teens who use a gun for suicide would get said access.
Stolen weapons being used to commit violence is a huge problem. Yet any discussion about it you want to turn into whining and bickering about gun grabbing and the Constitution
I'll make a socialist of you yet.Quote: AZDuffmanour collapsing society is causing the problem.
Quote: OnceDearSo, should more parents have a gun in the house? should daddy stay armed guard over the gun cabinet and shoot sonny boy a glancing wound if he had some sort of episode and tried to take the gun. What iff daddy flips. Should mommy also stand guard and train her gun on daddy? Best give sonny a gun so he can keep an eye on mommy.
Now you are just being silly. You need to understand that tens of millions of Americans keep guns in their house, almost all without incident.
If a person does not want a gun in their house they are free not to buy one. As the left is fond of saying, keep the government out of our bedrooms!
Quote: OnceDearAs a Brit, I cannot have a gun legally. Despite what you might read, they (and ammunition) are hard to acquire ilegally.
Do I want one?: No.
Am I ever likely to need one?: Hell no.
If I thought that there was a real danger of a criminal attacking my home with a gun, might I be tempted to acquire one myself, would I get one?: Maybe.
If I were in the same position and in the US, where gun crime is a big issue, might I get one?: Quite possibly.
Guns being freely available makes gun ownership justifiable.
Justifiable gun ownership makes guns freely available.*
A rather vicious circle.
BUT, my own carelessness, occasional intoxication and possibly mental instability tomorrow is a given... So, on balance, sane me of today says that less sane me of tomorrow should not have a gun. Period. That would be the deal breaker if I lived in the US with its current gun laws.
*How anyone can justify Joe public having an assault rifle in his home sort of escapes me.
I didn't know you couldn't have a gun. Is there no hunting there? Do you have deer? I am showing my ignorance.
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/magazine/magazine_article/guns-suicide/
Quote: SOOPOOTwo people per state per year would open eyes. But no one ever addresses my speed limit analogy. There are so many restrictive things we can do that will save lives (ban smoking cigarettes, speed limit 40, breathalyzer to run a car, ban sugared sodas) but we decide that the lives saved by these restrictions are not worth it. Some believe that gun ownership rights are in that category.
That's a reasonable argument. I wish gun people would make it more often instead of saying stuff like "the Vegas shooter could have used knives" and "suicidal people would just find some other method.".
Quote: OnceDear*How anyone can justify Joe public having an assault rifle in his home sort of escapes me.
https://www.quora.com/Which-countries-has-Britain-not-invaded-yet
I exaggerated a little. We are not allowed rim-fire pistols.Quote: GWAEI didn't know you couldn't have a gun. Is there no hunting there? Do you have deer? I am showing my ignorance.
Shotguns and hunting rifles can be owned under very stringent licenses after extensive background checks, home visits by police to check security and police interviews to give good reason for owning one..
"For firearms other than a shotgun, applicants must give police a "good reason" for wanting to own one. Hunting or being a member of a shooting club, for example, might be seen as good reasons. Self-defence won't be considered a valid reason"
Since most of the UK is urban, there is very little call for deer hunting or hunting for other game.
To give some perspective, I'm not aware of any civilian that I've met who has ever handled a handgun in the UK. I casually know one person who owns a shotgun and he is a farmer and I believe he hunts rabbits on his own land. I've fired nothing more lethal than a .22 air rifle at a carnival. I've never knowingly heard a gunshot and I know no-one affected in any way by gun crime. My Dad was issued a Tommy gun in WW2 but had to give it back because he couldn't hit a barn.
$:o)
Quote: OnceDear
Since most of the UK
I'm curious - you refer to the UK
but couldn't a country such as Scotland, which is part of the UK have different laws than England regarding certain policies , maybe not re guns but other issues?
Quote: RigondeauxThe whole point of guns is to make killing as easy as possible. Both murder and suicide occur more when guns are around.
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/magazine/magazine_article/guns-suicide/
That's a reasonable argument. I wish gun people would make it more often instead of saying stuff like "the Vegas shooter could have used knives" and "suicidal people would just find some other method.".
The longer you are on an interstate highway, the more your chances of being in a fatal accident occurs. Lowering the speed limits to 40 would extend the time you are in danger by 50%.
I read years ago, that reducing the speed limit from 30 to 25 saves pedestrian lives as you are more likely to survive a 25mph crash. I'm not aware of anything showing a person will survive a forty mile an hour crash better than a sixty mile one. It seems logical, I'm not sure it's statistically relevant.
Good question. Scotland has its own, somewhat different legal system. Laws vary a little such as they had a public smoking ban before England and have greater prohibition of smacking children. Gun laws are very similar in Scotland.Quote: lilredroosterI'm curious - you refer to the UK
but couldn't a country such as Scotland, which is part of the UK have different laws than England regarding certain policies , maybe not re guns but other issues?
Northern Ireland has different and slightly more relaxed gun laws after 'the Good Friday agreement' which gave some devolution.
Scotland's a bit more rugged and rural. Deer hunting is more popular there.
Quote: OnceDearI know.... we're repressed, restricted, reigned over.
No.
You have different demographics.
That’s changing though. London murder rate up 40% over the past three years. London gun crime is up 42%, and knife crimes are at a seven year high.
Care to guess why?
Quote: TankoLondon murder rate
London - population about 8.1 million. Homicides in 2017.....................121
Chicago - population about 2.7 million. Homicides in 2017.....................665
and no, Chicago isn't even close to being the city with the highest homicide rate
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/london-murder-crime-rate-stabbings-met-police-statistics-a8631606.html
https://chicago.suntimes.com/news/chicago-murders-homicides-2017-steep-decline/
I'm blocked from the demographics link.Quote: TankoNo.
You have different demographics.
That’s changing though. London murder rate up 40% over the past three years. London gun crime is up 42%, and knife crimes are at a seven year high.
Care to guess why?
Well the Sun ( tacky tabloid ) says that the Home Office mostly blames the crime increase on the availability of Columbian Cocaine. I've no idea if that's true.
The Independent seems to blame it on a mix of youth culture making carrying a knife de rigueur and Social media, though I don't follow that.
Cocaine is a hell of a drug
Quote:"Cocaine from the District of Columbia? ;)
Cocaine is a hell of a drug"
Hah! It sure is!
Possible reasons?
Shooter not an “angry white male” so it doesn’t fit the lefties agenda.
Shooter purchased the gun legally and didn’t have a criminal record. So to blame the NRA is to paramount to pushing for the elimination of all guns sales.
A sad tragic situation in any case.
Quote: BozNot much on here about the tragic Virginia shooting from the usual anti gun crowd.
Possible reasons?
Shooter not an “angry white male” so it doesn’t fit the lefties agenda.
Shooter purchased the gun legally and didn’t have a criminal record. So to blame the NRA is to paramount to pushing for the elimination of all guns sales.
A sad tragic situation in any case.
Wasn't there some hippy liberal and a tranny that shot up a school in Colorado recently? I get all my news from WOV so I'm...
...that I didn't see any posts about it on here.
Quote: BozNot much on here about the tragic Virginia shooting from the usual anti gun crowd.
Possible reasons?
Shooter not an “angry white male” so it doesn’t fit the lefties agenda.
Shooter purchased the gun legally and didn’t have a criminal record. So to blame the NRA is to paramount to pushing for the elimination of all guns sales.
A sad tragic situation in any case.
I can't help wondering when these things happen if there's anything we could do to stop this madness. I know many of this type of criminal expects to take his own life after the deal is done. So what can you do to stop someone with that mindset? I can't think of anything.
Colombian. There are rivers, universities and towns named Columbia, but not a country.Quote: OnceDearI'm blocked from the demographics link.Quote: TankoNo.
You have different demographics.
That’s changing though. London murder rate up 40% over the past three years. London gun crime is up 42%, and knife crimes are at a seven year high.
Care to guess why?
Well the Sun ( tacky tabloid ) says that the Home Office mostly blames the crime increase on the availability of Columbian Cocaine. I've no idea if that's true.
The Independent seems to blame it on a mix of youth culture making carrying a knife de rigueur and Social media, though I don't follow that.
Quote: BozNot much on here about the tragic Virginia shooting from the usual anti gun crowd.
Possible reasons?
I don't think that the reasons you gave are the reasons
I think most people have lost the ability to be shocked and outraged - there is not an unlimited supply of these emotions
it's pretty much expected that it will happen regularly now - there is no surprise element
shock only seems to come when there are great numbers such as in the LV shooting
we've become bean counters when it comes to counting up the number of people shot dead in one incident
I know the reasons above certainly apply to me - I've become numb
Quote: bobbartopI can't help wondering when these things happen if there's anything we could do to stop this madness. I know many of this type of criminal expects to take his own life after the deal is done. So what can you do to stop someone with that mindset? I can't think of anything.
Not much that can be done. We are in a sickly, collapsing society. Think about how desensitized we have become to violence in the last 2 generations. In 1963, America saw JFK killed. Not live for most, but the video was played right away and over and over. Before this, the only people who saw such death were combat veterans and the occasional cop. The same weekend, America saw Oswald killed before their eyes. Since you have to be about 70 years old at least to remember this, it is hard for us to picture the wake-up call this was.
Over the next decade, violence came over TV daily what with the 1960s riots and Vietnam. More and more, it came in color vs BW. It became normal. Think about it. Today virtually everyone has seen someone killed on TV. I am not talking movies or shows, I am talking news coverage. Even if not live as in the case of Oswald, you have seen someone killed before your eyes, probably at least several times.
Add in many other societal decline factors and you have what we have. Luckily, most of the violence happens in just a few concentrated places.
Quote: AZDuffmanNot much that can be done. We are in a sickly, collapsing society. Think about how desensitized we have become to violence in the last 2 generations. In 1963, America saw JFK killed. Not live for most, but the video was played right away and over and over. Before this, the only people who saw such death were combat veterans and the occasional cop. The same weekend, America saw Oswald killed before their eyes. Since you have to be about 70 years old at least to remember this, it is hard for us to picture the wake-up call this was.
Over the next decade, violence came over TV daily what with the 1960s riots and Vietnam. More and more, it came in color vs BW. It became normal. Think about it. Today virtually everyone has seen someone killed on TV. I am not talking movies or shows, I am talking news coverage. Even if not live as in the case of Oswald, you have seen someone killed before your eyes, probably at least several times.
Add in many other societal decline factors and you have what we have. Luckily, most of the violence happens in just a few concentrated places.
Of course I was talking about criminals who have a death wish. Regarding criminals who plan to live after they do their crime, I still think there are procedures that will thwart their actions. Swifter punishment and get away from keeping murderers on Death Row for over 20 years like we do in California. And use the electric chair. I believe that would be a deterrent, rather than a needle. I think we can trace most of the problem back to the ACLU folks.
Last election in California, we had measures on the ballot that would trim the appeal process on murderers. Right now we have over 700 on Death Row, some for the most ghastly of crimes, and they have been there 20-30 years. How long can you appeal something? Meanwhile, our new governor, Newsom, has stated that there will be no executions during his term as governor.
Quote: BozNot much on here about the tragic Virginia shooting from the usual anti gun crowd.
Possible reasons?
Shooter not an “angry white male” so it doesn’t fit the lefties agenda.
Shooter purchased the gun legally and didn’t have a criminal record. So to blame the NRA is to paramount to pushing for the elimination of all guns sales.
A sad tragic situation in any case.
For me personally its just another shooting i saw discussed so moved on.
I did not even know the perp was not an angry white male. I kinda assumed it was I admit. Your comment above is first I learned it wasnt.
Leffies just shake their heads now and assume righties enjoy the gun violence as much as righties assume lefties enjoy scheduling abortions probably
My only real observation is the righties keep saying they need guns to defend themselves from situations like these.
I am still waiting for that hero gun owner to pop up.
I think it happened once where the day was saved by a regular citizen who took out his own armor maybe.
Should be like any good theory to me. If after a thousand instances it works maybe once... its probably not a viable theory
Quote: darkozFor me personally its just another shooting i saw discussed so moved on.
I did not even know the perp was not an angry white male. I kinda assumed it was I admit. Your comment above is first I learned it wasnt.
Leffies just shake their heads now and assume righties enjoy the gun violence as much as righties assume lefties enjoy scheduling abortions probably
My only real observation is the righties keep saying they need guns to defend themselves from situations like these.
I am still waiting for that hero gun owner to pop up.
I think it happened once where the day was saved by a regular citizen who took out his own armor maybe.
Should be like any good theory to me. If after a thousand instances it works maybe once... its probably not a viable theory
Just to be clear, guns save lives every day. No telling how many.
Quote: lilredroosterhere in the U.S. it works out to be on average:
𝟏𝟎𝟗 𝐏𝐄𝐎𝐏𝐋𝐄 𝐒𝐇𝐎𝐓 𝐃𝐄𝐀𝐃 𝐄𝐕𝐄𝐑𝐘 𝐒𝐈𝐍𝐆𝐋𝐄 𝐃𝐀𝐘
http://time.com/5461950/canada-homicide-rate-2017-climbs/
