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Joeman
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May 11th, 2023 at 6:14:06 AM permalink
Quote: DRich

Quote: gordonm888


I live in Knoxville, this area is sort of like my backyard.



I like Knoxville. I think that is a city I could live in. My first visit was for the World's Fair and then I was back a few times as my sister went to the university there.
link to original post

My first visit was in 82 for the World's Fair as well! I went back a few years ago to see a football game. I'm by no means a Tennessee fan, but I love how the crowd does the checkerboard pattern the stands!



If this was the game I was at, I was amongst the smattering of blue next to the sky boxes on the left. BTW, Neyland is huge!
"Dealer has 'rock'... Pay 'paper!'"
tuttigym
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May 13th, 2023 at 9:07:56 AM permalink
The Fox News app has a nine minute video of Tom Cruise's incredible new stunt. It is breath-taking, remarkable, and jaw dropping. I do not have the ability to link this video, but if someone were to watch it and then link it, it is well worth one's time to watch it. I am quite sure that darkoz would be appreciative of the clip given his extensive background in movie production. BTW, I believe Mr. Cruise is about 61 years old.

tuttigym
DogHand
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May 13th, 2023 at 12:08:30 PM permalink
Quote: billryan

I spent a night in Knoxville in 91. It was early fall and while the trees had turned in NY and Pa, they were still green in the south.
My friends and I went to a charity concert where all the performers got completely trashed before getting on stage, which resulted in a long ugly. The singer from the Outlaws was supposed to headline the show but he spent most of his set letting us know how fcked up he was and trashing the fat girls in the crowd.
for those not familiar with the Chattanooga area, it is simply gorgeous. Well worth visiting. spent today on the Battlefield at Chickamauga. While not as well preserved as Shiloh, which is understandable as this battle took place in a fairly developed area, there are many more monuments and statues here. As this battle was just about the Confederacy's only victory in the West, I guess it ranked higher when the Southern states were paying for their monuments. While the National Army lost at Chickamagua and, as a result, was besieged in Chattanooga, reinforcements soon arrived and a few months later, they attacked and destroyed the Confederate Army in Tennessee, opening the door for Sherman's March to the Sea.
I have a friend who moved to Cooksville a few years ago, and I'm trying to pin down a lunch with him. If not, I might head to Atlanta.
I'm currently working on a promotion where I'm getting BOGOs on my hotels, getting 15% cash back and 10X Choice points, plus an additional 3% back and if I spend $3,000 in the next nintey days, I get both $1,000 cash back, seven more free nights and will reach Diamond status.

BTW- I had my first Hunt Brothers pizza today. It's a chain that is sold mostly in gas stations and the like. For one price, you can get unlimited toppings( except cheese). It was pretty good. Better than Lil Caesars, Papa John's, and that ilk. Hunt Brothers is sold in some 8,000 places.
link to original post


billryan,

Hunt Brothers pizza is sold at Coushatta Casino Resort in Kinder, Louisiana: you can buy it with your comp dollars.

Dog Hand
lilredrooster
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May 13th, 2023 at 12:32:37 PM permalink
.

it's quite amazing to me to think about some of the things humans are capable of

The Mars Sample Return Mission is tentatively scheduled for launch in 2027

from an earlier mission a Rover is collecting samples for future return to Earth

Nasa and Esa are collaborating on a follow up mission that would include a Retrieval Lander which would launch the samples aboard the Mars ascent vehicle

once the vehicle reaches Mars orbit an ESA led Earth return orbiter will rendezvous with it and bring the samples back to Earth

the tentative scheduling is for the orbiter to land back on Earth sometime in 2033

the samples will then be analyzed for signs of past life

Mars is about 173 million miles away

wow


https://mars.nasa.gov/mars-exploration/missions/mars-sample-return/


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the foolish sayings of a rich man often pass for words of wisdom by the fools around him
gordonm888
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May 13th, 2023 at 6:43:59 PM permalink
Quote: lilredrooster

.

it's quite amazing to me to think about some of the things humans are capable of

The Mars Sample Return Mission is tentatively scheduled for launch in 2027

from an earlier mission a Rover is collecting samples for future return to Earth

Nasa and Esa are collaborating on a follow up mission that would include a Retrieval Lander which would launch the samples aboard the Mars ascent vehicle

once the vehicle reaches Mars orbit an ESA led Earth return orbiter will rendezvous with it and bring the samples back to Earth

the tentative scheduling is for the orbiter to land back on Earth sometime in 2033

the samples will then be analyzed for signs of past life

Mars is about 173 million miles away

wow


https://mars.nasa.gov/mars-exploration/missions/mars-sample-return/


.
link to original post



Mars is about 33 million miles away from Earth at closest approach but that 'closest approach' (which takes into account the obality of orbist) has never happened in all of human history. Mars and Earth got as close as 34 million miles in 2003, but sometimes they are as far apart as 250 million miles.

You see, when you send a spaceship to MARs by the time it arrives the Earth has revolved such that it is on the opposite side of the Sun from Mars. Planning a return trip from Mars is very complex. I helped NASA evaluate power systems for a hypothetical manned mission to Mars, and as I remember it the absolute shortest mission duration was about 3 years.
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
odiousgambit
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May 14th, 2023 at 3:08:58 AM permalink
Quote: gordonm888

I helped NASA evaluate power systems for a hypothetical manned mission to Mars
link to original post

!!
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!”   She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
Dieter
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May 14th, 2023 at 4:37:08 AM permalink
Quote: odiousgambit

Quote: gordonm888

I helped NASA evaluate power systems for a hypothetical manned mission to Mars
link to original post

!!
link to original post



Mods are cooler than you think. ;)
May the cards fall in your favor.
rxwine
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May 14th, 2023 at 6:01:34 AM permalink
Quote: gordonm888

Quote: lilredrooster

.

it's quite amazing to me to think about some of the things humans are capable of

The Mars Sample Return Mission is tentatively scheduled for launch in 2027

from an earlier mission a Rover is collecting samples for future return to Earth

Nasa and Esa are collaborating on a follow up mission that would include a Retrieval Lander which would launch the samples aboard the Mars ascent vehicle

once the vehicle reaches Mars orbit an ESA led Earth return orbiter will rendezvous with it and bring the samples back to Earth

the tentative scheduling is for the orbiter to land back on Earth sometime in 2033

the samples will then be analyzed for signs of past life

Mars is about 173 million miles away

wow


https://mars.nasa.gov/mars-exploration/missions/mars-sample-return/


.
link to original post



Mars is about 33 million miles away from Earth at closest approach but that 'closest approach' (which takes into account the obality of orbist) has never happened in all of human history. Mars and Earth got as close as 34 million miles in 2003, but sometimes they are as far apart as 250 million miles.

You see, when you send a spaceship to MARs by the time it arrives the Earth has revolved such that it is on the opposite side of the Sun from Mars. Planning a return trip from Mars is very complex. I helped NASA evaluate power systems for a hypothetical manned mission to Mars, and as I remember it the absolute shortest mission duration was about 3 years.
link to original post



Technology will progress quite a bit in a 100 years. Humans, not so much. But most predictions for lots of different advances rarely exceed a couple decades. Double that time for good measure, and it still is within a 100 years.

Come to think of it, it would be tough to have a war with Mars. Even old sailing ships only took 3 months at most to reach America from Europe.
There's no secret. Just know what you're talking about before you open your mouth.
lilredrooster
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May 14th, 2023 at 10:27:55 AM permalink
.

below is a truly amazing vid from the Nasa Jet Propulsion Laboratory showing how these samples will be returned to Earth

the plan is for the samples inside the Earth Entry Vehicle to land passively in the desert sands of Utah which will help protect them from impact forces

the 2nd vid, also from Nasa, is re the mission and the deliberate disposal of the Cassini probe of Saturn via a controlled fall into Saturn's atmosphere

it took almost 7 years for the probe to reach Saturn which is almost one billion miles away from Earth


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Last edited by: lilredrooster on May 14, 2023
the foolish sayings of a rich man often pass for words of wisdom by the fools around him
odiousgambit
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May 14th, 2023 at 11:20:44 AM permalink
was kind of curious as to how many manned and unmanned probes the Earth has sent into space and found this chart on wikipedia that goes to 2015. It includes all types from telescope placements, to those probes that left the solar system entirely... but not those that are just satellites I believe. I also don't see programs like Gemini? but Apollo is there. All countries.

If you load the link directly you can zoom in. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6b/Timeline_of_Solar_System_exploration.jpg

I count 204, and I would think we are approaching 230-240 by now. Didn't find a site that stated a number

the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!”   She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
rainman
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May 14th, 2023 at 4:45:53 PM permalink
What do you guys think the min coin in is at -3% $2avg that will generate rooms from Ceasar's?
AxelWolf
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May 14th, 2023 at 9:41:33 PM permalink
Quote: Dieter

Quote: odiousgambit

Quote: gordonm888

I helped NASA evaluate power systems for a hypothetical manned mission to Mars
link to original post

!!
link to original post



Mods are cooler than you think. ;)
link to original post

They would have to be since we think Zero on a 1 to 10 scale.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
lilredrooster
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May 15th, 2023 at 1:37:32 AM permalink
.

I think Axel was joking
but I'll weigh in and say I don't feel that way - even though I've been suspended a couple of times
I appreciate the effort of the mods - I know their job isn't always easy and I know they're not paid
I'm glad the forum doesn't have allow very nasty posts like others do
for all you do - this Bud's for you_____!

.
the foolish sayings of a rich man often pass for words of wisdom by the fools around him
Dieter
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May 15th, 2023 at 2:27:31 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: Dieter

Quote: odiousgambit

Quote: gordonm888

I helped NASA evaluate power systems for a hypothetical manned mission to Mars
link to original post

!!
link to original post



Mods are cooler than you think. ;)
link to original post

They would have to be since we think Zero on a 1 to 10 scale.
link to original post



0K, 0K... can't get cooler than absolute zero.
May the cards fall in your favor.
DRich
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May 15th, 2023 at 6:10:44 AM permalink
Quote: Dieter

]

0K, 0K... can't get cooler than absolute zero.



I believe it is not even possible to get to absolute zero and to measure it.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
billryan
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May 15th, 2023 at 7:34:26 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: Dieter

Quote: odiousgambit

Quote: gordonm888

I helped NASA evaluate power systems for a hypothetical manned mission to Mars
link to original post

!!
link to original post



Mods are cooler than you think. ;)
link to original post

They would have to be since we think Zero on a 1 to 10 scale.
link to original post



The Romans managed just fine without any zero.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
Dieter
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May 15th, 2023 at 8:53:13 AM permalink
Quote: billryan

Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: Dieter

Quote: odiousgambit

Quote: gordonm888

I helped NASA evaluate power systems for a hypothetical manned mission to Mars
link to original post

!!
link to original post



Mods are cooler than you think. ;)
link to original post

They would have to be since we think Zero on a 1 to 10 scale.
link to original post



The Romans managed just fine without any zero.
link to original post



Didn't the Roman empire fall (spectacularly)?
0 > Rome?


Aqueducts and certain vias get proper respect, of course.
May the cards fall in your favor.
billryan
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May 15th, 2023 at 10:32:40 AM permalink
Rome was just a 2,000-year flash in the pan. I wonder how many Americans know that the last Holy Roman Emperor was crowned well after the American Revolution.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
tuttigym
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May 15th, 2023 at 1:49:40 PM permalink
Quote: gordonm888



Mars is about 33 million miles away from Earth at closest approach but that 'closest approach' (which takes into account the obality of orbist) has never happened in all of human history. Mars and Earth got as close as 34 million miles in 2003, but sometimes they are as far apart as 250 million miles.

You see, when you send a spaceship to MARs by the time it arrives the Earth has revolved such that it is on the opposite side of the Sun from Mars. Planning a return trip from Mars is very complex. I helped NASA evaluate power systems for a hypothetical manned mission to Mars, and as I remember it the absolute shortest mission duration was about 3 years.
link to original post


Very interesting. What kind of propulsion system would allow for travel of those distances in a 6 month time frame?

What kind of a vehicle and how large would be necessary to make that three year journey?

What would keep the crew from going stir crazy?

Finally, life support, i.e., food, water, atmosphere and all at what estimated cost?

tuttigym
lilredrooster
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May 16th, 2023 at 2:52:26 AM permalink
.

81 year old Martha Stewart makes the cover of Sports Illustrated's Swimsuit issue___________𝘲𝘶𝘪𝘵𝘦 𝘢𝘮𝘢𝘻𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘸𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘱𝘭𝘢𝘴𝘵𝘪𝘤 𝘴𝘶𝘳𝘨𝘦𝘳𝘺 𝘤𝘢𝘯 𝘥𝘰

although she claims she's had no plastic surgery___________whatever


𝙔𝙊𝙐 𝙂𝙊 𝙂𝙄𝙍𝙇__________!!!

.





.
the foolish sayings of a rich man often pass for words of wisdom by the fools around him
rxwine
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May 16th, 2023 at 8:27:52 AM permalink
Quote: tuttigym

Quote: gordonm888



Mars is about 33 million miles away from Earth at closest approach but that 'closest approach' (which takes into account the obality of orbist) has never happened in all of human history. Mars and Earth got as close as 34 million miles in 2003, but sometimes they are as far apart as 250 million miles.

You see, when you send a spaceship to MARs by the time it arrives the Earth has revolved such that it is on the opposite side of the Sun from Mars. Planning a return trip from Mars is very complex. I helped NASA evaluate power systems for a hypothetical manned mission to Mars, and as I remember it the absolute shortest mission duration was about 3 years.
link to original post


Very interesting. What kind of propulsion system would allow for travel of those distances in a 6 month time frame?

What kind of a vehicle and how large would be necessary to make that three year journey?

What would keep the crew from going stir crazy?

Finally, life support, i.e., food, water, atmosphere and all at what estimated cost?

tuttigym
link to original post



Food might be the only serious problem. I suppose they could send an unmanned supply ship shortly afterward.

Quote:

The Space Station’s water recycling system produces pure drinking water from waste water, sweat and even urine. In the words of astronaut Douglas Wheelock, “Yesterday’s coffee is tomorrow’s coffee.”



Quote:

A trip to Mars and back, for instance, may require the provision of thousands of kilograms of food. A crew of four on a three-year martian mission eating only three meals each day would need to carry more than 24,000 pounds (10,886 kilograms) of food.Apr 16, 2007

There's no secret. Just know what you're talking about before you open your mouth.
gordonm888
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May 16th, 2023 at 10:18:56 AM permalink
Axel once had a Worst Moderator of All Time (WMOAT) ranking system. I think I started out at below absolute zero on that one.
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
gordonm888
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May 16th, 2023 at 10:46:05 AM permalink
Quote: tuttigym

Quote: gordonm888



Mars is about 33 million miles away from Earth at closest approach but that 'closest approach' (which takes into account the obality of orbist) has never happened in all of human history. Mars and Earth got as close as 34 million miles in 2003, but sometimes they are as far apart as 250 million miles.

You see, when you send a spaceship to MARs by the time it arrives the Earth has revolved such that it is on the opposite side of the Sun from Mars. Planning a return trip from Mars is very complex. I helped NASA evaluate power systems for a hypothetical manned mission to Mars, and as I remember it the absolute shortest mission duration was about 3 years.
link to original post


Very interesting. What kind of propulsion system would allow for travel of those distances in a 6 month time frame?

What kind of a vehicle and how large would be necessary to make that three year journey?

What would keep the crew from going stir crazy?

Finally, life support, i.e., food, water, atmosphere and all at what estimated cost?

tuttigym
link to original post



In the early 2000s NASA started a program to evaluate small nuclear reactors for use as propulsion in manned missions to Mars. Sort of as a shuttle from Earth orbit to Mars and then back to Earth orbit. They asked the Naval Reactors Laboratories (submarine reactors, etc) in the Department of Energy to work with them on conceptual designs and I and my reactors team at Oak Ridge National Lab(ORNL) were working with both NASA and the Naval Nuclear Labs on parts of the project. My teams at Oak Ridge had worked for decades on design and manufacture of Pu-238 radioisotope power systems which are used widely in NASA space systems, and we were trusted by NASA brass,

My sense of it was that a small space nuclear reactor was going to be too expensive and too difficult to do. Also, NASA required that all systems be extensively tested prior to launching them into space -and ground testing of a small reactor would make the fuel and structural components become highly radioactive -which is not what you want on a launchpad in Florida, given the possibility of a launchpad explosion.

Ultimately, NASA realized that the DOE Naval Reactors program had a culture of secrecy and of classifying all their technology so as to not help other foreign nations get nuclear powered submarines. And NASA's culture was one of openness and transparency. So, the two organizations literally could not work with each other -they were extremely frustrated just trying to have teleconferences. DOE tried to reorganize the reactor team to not include the Naval Labs -one of my top Oak ridge scientists was going to lead that team. But I got promoted up the ORNL organization, and asked that top scientist to instead take the leadership position that I was vacating. Eventually the entire NASA space reactor activity lost funding and died.

Certainly, chemical propulsion of space craft would be the obvious existing technology to use in such a notional mission, if undertaken in the near future.
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
DRich
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May 16th, 2023 at 12:06:33 PM permalink
Get to Mars in 45 days

https://www.sciencealert.com/new-nasa-nuclear-rocket-plan-aims-to-get-to-mars-in-just-45-days
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
tuttigym
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May 16th, 2023 at 12:32:24 PM permalink
Quote: DRich

Get to Mars in 45 days

https://www.sciencealert.com/new-nasa-nuclear-rocket-plan-aims-to-get-to-mars-in-just-45-days
link to original post


gordon888 is this article possibly accurate and doable?

The overriding question for me is what are the benefits for humanity? It seems the costs associated with the project will not provide any real benefits other than extensive exploration of a relative unknown entity. I mean we have been to the moon and what has been the resultant outcome(s) for the "common good"? We have not been back. There are no plans to develop any kinds of operations there. Going back has not happened because of costs and a lack of will. Our financial resources just are not there, so other than chest pounding what is the point?

To me, unless we can come up with an inexpensive time expedient way to travel huge distances, it all goes back to fantasy a la Star Trek.

BTW thanks for the really informative response.

tuttigym
odiousgambit
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May 16th, 2023 at 12:39:12 PM permalink
Quote: DRich

Get to Mars in 45 days

https://www.sciencealert.com/new-nasa-nuclear-rocket-plan-aims-to-get-to-mars-in-just-45-days
link to original post

much of it over my head ... but I was looking for confirmation that this type of thrust producer accelerates at such a low rate that after days it is still barely crawling ... yet will eventually exceed chemical types due to persistence the other type is not capable of

the article does say that it is bimodal, and the heated hydrogen type may generate greater thrust, I don't know. But the other type,
Quote:

Nuclear-Electric Propulsion (NEP), on the other hand, relies on a nuclear reactor to provide electricity to a Hall-Effect thruster (ion engine)



which makes me ask if the below would be true, quoted in a wikipedia article

Quote:

An ion drive would require two days to accelerate a car to highway speed in vacuum

I'll fault the above article for not saying, as this is quite interesting

the wikipedia article,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ion_thruster
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!”   She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
rxwine
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May 16th, 2023 at 1:11:35 PM permalink
Benefits of a mission? I don't know, Chinese get their first and set up death lasers, I guess.

I'm kidding (I think). But that's kind of the thing with all technology. If we aren't at least equal to what is going on, we're potentially at the mercy of someone else in the world.

What did the Moon mission bring?

TANG! And uh, ink pens that can write in zero gravity. Yeah!
There's no secret. Just know what you're talking about before you open your mouth.
lilredrooster
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May 16th, 2023 at 2:54:55 PM permalink
.
please delete


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the foolish sayings of a rich man often pass for words of wisdom by the fools around him
DRich
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May 16th, 2023 at 3:00:24 PM permalink
Quote: tuttigym

\

The overriding question for me is what are the benefits for humanity?



One of the common answers is that being multi-planetary increases the odds of survival for the species. Everyone knows that at some point something will happen on this planet that will extinguish the population such as another meteor strike or something similar.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
lilredrooster
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May 16th, 2023 at 3:19:26 PM permalink
Quote: DRich



One of the common answers is that being multi-planetary increases the odds of survival for the species. Everyone knows that at some point something will happen on this planet that will extinguish the population such as another meteor strike or something similar.
link to original post



DRich's point is a good one

the other answer is that it is such a fantastic and exciting thing - it shows how truly amazing and great we humans are - and we're all part of it being citizens of the U.S. - I guess most who are on this forum are that

who would really say - "I don't want the U.S. to explore Mars"

I doubt that there are many who would say that

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the foolish sayings of a rich man often pass for words of wisdom by the fools around him
rxwine
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May 16th, 2023 at 3:29:27 PM permalink
Mars will probably be the only human explored planet for quite awhile, unless we have some more breakthrough technology, or find a monolith buried on the Moon. Robots will likely be the only thing we use for anything else for a long time.
There's no secret. Just know what you're talking about before you open your mouth.
ChumpChange
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May 16th, 2023 at 3:33:42 PM permalink
Who the hell would go to the moon before TI-30 calculators existed?
Dieter
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May 16th, 2023 at 3:35:08 PM permalink
Quote: ChumpChange

Who the hell would go to the moon before TI-30 calculators existed?
link to original post



Who would invent electronic pocket calculators without the technology miniaturization prompted by space missions?
May the cards fall in your favor.
gordonm888
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odiousgambit
May 16th, 2023 at 9:06:12 PM permalink
I just read the article. I've been out of touch with the recent interest in this topic again.

Under ideal conditions (close proximity of Mars and Earth) it should be possible for a nuclear thermal propulsion unit to get to Mars in 45- 100 days. But at what expense? And remember - once the crew gets there, the Earth has been moving away from Mars for 45 days -and continues to move away at a velocity that is faster than the rocketships can attain.

The U. of Florida paper seems to me to be a scoping paper on what might be possible without considering the engineering and logistical costs of R&D, design, construction, ground testing and launching of equipment into low orbit, and ignores the challenges of assembling the reactors in low orbit. It's written by an academic based on expertise in the author's field, but the author has no experience with the real-life engineering challenges.

NERVA is cited as being a proven reactor technology, based on work done in the 1950s. To call NERVA "proven" is a huge overstatement. Work was done on testing small specimens of fuel, but no NERVA reactor has ever been built or operated.

People are apparently visualizing a bi-modal reactor shape ship which has both a Nuclear Thermal Reactor (which heats hydrogen gas) and a Nuclear Electric Propulsion Reactor (which generates electricity to create a Xenon plasma thruster.) I would propose they consider adding a third reactor that would be designed to jump start your car, mow your lawn and make love to your wife.

By the way, these reactor systems and thrusters must be connected by a very long rigid structure to the ship which houses the astronauts. You want to keep the operating reactors as far away from the astronauts as possible because the reactors themselves have no radiation shielding -and the unshielded reactor radiation would be lethal to the astronauts. So, the reactors must be hundreds of yards away, so that the requirement for radiation shielding (which is very heavy and expensive to put into Earth orbit) in the manned space pod would be minimal and placed so as directly shield the 'nauts from the far-off reactors.
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
billryan
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May 16th, 2023 at 9:37:40 PM permalink
Quote: rxwine

Benefits of a mission? I don't know, Chinese get their first and set up death lasers, I guess.

I'm kidding (I think). But that's kind of the thing with all technology. If we aren't at least equal to what is going on, we're potentially at the mercy of someone else in the world.

What did the Moon mission bring?

TANG! And uh, ink pens that can write in zero gravity. Yeah!
link to original post



Velcro?.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
tuttigym
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May 17th, 2023 at 10:25:37 AM permalink
Quote: gordonm888

I just read the article. I've been out of touch with the recent interest in this topic again.

Under ideal conditions (close proximity of Mars and Earth) it should be possible for a nuclear thermal propulsion unit to get to Mars in 45- 100 days. But at what expense? And remember - once the crew gets there, the Earth has been moving away from Mars for 45 days -and continues to move away at a velocity that is faster than the rocketships can attain.

The U. of Florida paper seems to me to be a scoping paper on what might be possible without considering the engineering and logistical costs of R&D, design, construction, ground testing and launching of equipment into low orbit, and ignores the challenges of assembling the reactors in low orbit. It's written by an academic based on expertise in the author's field, but the author has no experience with the real-life engineering challenges.

NERVA is cited as being a proven reactor technology, based on work done in the 1950s. To call NERVA "proven" is a huge overstatement. Work was done on testing small specimens of fuel, but no NERVA reactor has ever been built or operated.

People are apparently visualizing a bi-modal reactor shape ship which has both a Nuclear Thermal Reactor (which heats hydrogen gas) and a Nuclear Electric Propulsion Reactor (which generates electricity to create a Xenon plasma thruster.) I would propose they consider adding a third reactor that would be designed to jump start your car, mow your lawn and make love to your wife.

By the way, these reactor systems and thrusters must be connected by a very long rigid structure to the ship which houses the astronauts. You want to keep the operating reactors as far away from the astronauts as possible because the reactors themselves have no radiation shielding -and the unshielded reactor radiation would be lethal to the astronauts. So, the reactors must be hundreds of yards away, so that the requirement for radiation shielding (which is very heavy and expensive to put into Earth orbit) in the manned space pod would be minimal and placed so as directly shield the 'nauts from the far-off reactors.



For me, this post provides the reality that colonization or mining ops will never happen. First, money or funding will never be sufficient. Second, habitability is just not possible for any real length of time. Consider the fact that there are no under ocean habitats that can sustain or provide for a civilization to thrive.

Logically, it is total fantasy, but we can dream.

tuttigym
rxwine
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May 17th, 2023 at 11:28:46 AM permalink
What doesn’t work on Earth might still work elsewhere.

Space Elevators

Quote:

The concept is applicable to other planets and celestial bodies. For locations in the solar system with weaker gravity than Earth's (such as the Moon or Mars), the strength-to-density requirements for tether materials are not as problematic. Currently available materials (such as Kevlar) are strong and light enough that they could be practical as the tether material for elevators there.[15]

There's no secret. Just know what you're talking about before you open your mouth.
lilredrooster
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May 17th, 2023 at 12:43:33 PM permalink
Quote: tuttigym


For me, this post provides the reality that colonization or mining ops will never happen. First, money or funding will never be sufficient. Second, habitability is just not possible for any real length of time. Consider the fact that there are no under ocean habitats that can sustain or provide for a civilization to thrive.

Logically, it is total fantasy, but we can dream.

tuttigym
link to original post



you have absolutely no idea what kind of technology and capabilities will be available to humans in 1,000 years

neither do I for that matter

but I would never say that what might seem impossible now will also be impossible in 1,000 years

.
Last edited by: lilredrooster on May 17, 2023
the foolish sayings of a rich man often pass for words of wisdom by the fools around him
mcallister3200
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May 17th, 2023 at 2:04:21 PM permalink
Quote: lilredrooster

Quote: tuttigym


For me, this post provides the reality that colonization or mining ops will never happen. First, money or funding will never be sufficient. Second, habitability is just not possible for any real length of time. Consider the fact that there are no under ocean habitats that can sustain or provide for a civilization to thrive.

Logically, it is total fantasy, but we can dream.

tuttigym
link to original post



you have absolutely no idea what kind of technology and capabilities will be available to humans in 1,000 years

neither do I for that matter

but I would never say that what might seem impossible now will also be impossible in 1,000 years

.
link to original post



Why not dude? It’s the internet, after all.
billryan
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May 17th, 2023 at 3:03:48 PM permalink
Two hundred years ago, most humans never got more than a day or two walking distance from their birthplace.
A hundred years ago, 99% of humanity had never flown in an airplane.
Fifty years ago, the internet was science fiction.
I have no idea what technology will bring us in the next hundred years, and anyone who thinks tomorrow's technology is somehow limited by what is available today is not a forward-thinking person.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
Ace2
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May 17th, 2023 at 3:47:24 PM permalink
Quote: DRich

Quote: tuttigym

\

The overriding question for me is what are the benefits for humanity?



One of the common answers is that being multi-planetary increases the odds of survival for the species. Everyone knows that at some point something will happen on this planet that will extinguish the population such as another meteor strike or something similar.
link to original post

I read that of all things that ever lived on earth, 99.9% are extinct. Humans will also become extinct and that will be very good for the planet
It’s all about making that GTA
rxwine
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May 17th, 2023 at 4:27:16 PM permalink
Quote: Ace2

Quote: DRich

Quote: tuttigym

\

The overriding question for me is what are the benefits for humanity?



One of the common answers is that being multi-planetary increases the odds of survival for the species. Everyone knows that at some point something will happen on this planet that will extinguish the population such as another meteor strike or something similar.
link to original post

I read that of all things that ever lived on earth, 99.9% are extinct. Humans will also become extinct and that will be very good for the planet
link to original post



Mice share 90 percent of our DNA. Chickens 65%. So, in a way, we may carry on. Of course chimps around 95, But I figure if we die, chimps are probably in trouble as well. Mice might be our only chance.
There's no secret. Just know what you're talking about before you open your mouth.
billryan
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May 17th, 2023 at 5:07:00 PM permalink
We need to go to Marrs, as the first step of going to the stars. Someday, our sun will die and if mankind hasn't taken to other solar systems, the rest of the universe will never have the pleasure of reading Lao Tze, or Tom Jefferson, hearing the music of Jim Steinman or seeing Jeff Hardy doing a Swanton off a thirty foot ladder.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
lilredrooster
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May 18th, 2023 at 1:50:36 AM permalink
.

heat will soar to record levels in the next 5 years according to the World Meteorological Organization which was indicated in a statement yesterday

'this will have far reaching repercussions for health, food security, water management and the environment" said Petteri Taalas, the Secretary General of this organization

disaster is already here - the gigantic city of Jakarta, Indonesia - population 11 million - is sinking - as thirsty residents have drained its marshy aquifers and rising sea levels lap its shores

40% of the city now lies below sea level

the Indonesian government has a controversial plan to abandon the city and inaugurate a new Capital city, - Nusantara - in Eastern Borneo in August of 2024


https://public.wmo.int/en/media/press-release/global-temperatures-set-reach-new-records-next-five-years


https://www.dailyo.in/news/indonesia-is-moving-its-capital-800-miles-away-from-sinking-jakarta-but-critics-see-red-39764

.
Last edited by: lilredrooster on May 18, 2023
the foolish sayings of a rich man often pass for words of wisdom by the fools around him
odiousgambit
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May 18th, 2023 at 4:48:03 AM permalink
Quote: lilredrooster

.

heat will soar to record levels in the next 5 years according to the World Meteorological Organization which was indicated in a statement yesterday

uh-oh

back to the prediction business ... the climate change folks have done themselves the most damage trying to do predictions, the failure of which has been fodder to the other side
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!”   She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
lilredrooster
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May 18th, 2023 at 5:03:32 AM permalink
Quote: odiousgambit

Quote: lilredrooster

.

heat will soar to record levels in the next 5 years according to the World Meteorological Organization which was indicated in a statement yesterday

uh-oh

back to the prediction business ... the climate change folks have done themselves the most damage trying to do predictions, the failure of which has been fodder to the other side
link to original post


they're not talking that kinna talk in Jakarta, Indonesia (see post 2 up that you edited out) where their Government has made a plan to abandon the the Capital city of 11 million people, or most of it, due to environmental disaster, and relocate the Capital to a different area

.
the foolish sayings of a rich man often pass for words of wisdom by the fools around him
odiousgambit
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May 18th, 2023 at 5:23:01 AM permalink
Quote: lilredrooster

Quote: odiousgambit

Quote: lilredrooster

.

heat will soar to record levels in the next 5 years according to the World Meteorological Organization which was indicated in a statement yesterday

uh-oh

back to the prediction business ... the climate change folks have done themselves the most damage trying to do predictions, the failure of which has been fodder to the other side
link to original post


they're not talking that kinna talk in Jakarta, Indonesia (see post 2 up that you edited out) where their Government has made a plan to abandon the the Capital city of 11 million people, or most of it, due to environmental disaster, and relocate the Capital to a different area

.
link to original post

my remark was not meant to rebuke you for posting that. As for further comment, well, we can wander into political talk if we don't look out ... I don't doubt that those living near sea level are taking this pretty seriously even when they don't have a sinking problem on top of it
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!”   She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
rxwine
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May 18th, 2023 at 5:29:21 AM permalink
Quote: odiousgambit

Quote: lilredrooster

.

heat will soar to record levels in the next 5 years according to the World Meteorological Organization which was indicated in a statement yesterday

uh-oh

back to the prediction business ... the climate change folks have done themselves the most damage trying to do predictions, the failure of which has been fodder to the other side
link to original post



Hey, I agree with you. It's the hardest point to argue against. I wish the predictors could fashion the argument like "negative expectation" games. AS in there is negative expectation eventually, but it is not necessarily direct line to one point. Or at least, if everything stays the same as it is year to year, this will eventually happen.
There's no secret. Just know what you're talking about before you open your mouth.
tuttigym
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May 18th, 2023 at 10:29:26 AM permalink
Quote: lilredrooster

Quote: tuttigym


For me, this post provides the reality that colonization or mining ops will never happen. First, money or funding will never be sufficient. Second, habitability is just not possible for any real length of time. Consider the fact that there are no under ocean habitats that can sustain or provide for a civilization to thrive.

Logically, it is total fantasy, but we can dream.

tuttigym
link to original post



you have absolutely no idea what kind of technology and capabilities will be available to humans in 1,000 years

neither do I for that matter

but I would never say that what might seem impossible now will also be impossible in 1,000 years

.
link to original post


From my point of view, you just do not get it. The bottom line is not necessarily technology but funding. We can barely feed ourselves or provide access to reasonable medical care. The vast majority of the world's population is struggling to survive now. The hypothesis of possible technologies going forward 1,000 years is also fantasy, IMO. Human extinction is more likely to occur within that 1,000 year window than not because homosapiens seem to be self-destructive entities that cannot get out off their own way.

tuttigym
DRich
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May 18th, 2023 at 11:06:22 AM permalink
Quote: lilredrooster

.

heat will soar to record levels in the next 5 years according to the World Meteorological Organization which was indicated in a statement yesterday



I hope so, I am damn tired of getting cold.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
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