2016 Election
Quote: RonCIs it hypocritical to call for the firing, jailing, etc. of a lady who refuses to issue a marriage license to a gay couple when it is her duty (under the law and court order) to do so but to defend the issuing of marriage licenses to gay couples before they were legal?
No. She is denying people their constitutional rights. Gay marriage is here to stay isn't going anywhere. I suspect she will be going somewhere.
As for the mayor, was it his duty to NOT issue people marriage licenses? Gay marriage wasn't legal then, it is now. Him denying them their rights would have amounted to a pointless delay in justice and nothing else.
Imagine if some clerk somewhere denied people their gun license due to violence being against their religion. Picture the uproar on the right! The people praising this hypocritical woman would be up in arms, and they would certainly threaten the life of whoever was attempting to deny their "2nd amendment rights" due to their religious beliefs.
Quote: ams288No. She is denying people their constitutional rights. Gay marriage is here to stay isn't going anywhere. I suspect she will be going somewhere.
As for the mayor, was it his duty to NOT issue people marriage licenses? Gay marriage wasn't legal then, it is now. Him denying them their rights would have amounted to a pointless delay in justice and nothing else.
Imagine if some clerk somewhere denied people their gun license due to violence being against their religion. Picture the uproar on the right! The people praising this hypocritical woman would be up in arms, and they would certainly threaten the life of whoever was attempting to deny their "2nd amendment rights" due to their religious beliefs.
So somehow she has the duty to uphold the law and he didn't?
I have not defended her past and I have said that she should issue the license, quit, or face the music. I am in no way praising her.
You are saying that it is okay that the Mayor had the same duty to uphold the law but it was okay because he was on the other side of the argument. It was the Mayor's duty not to issue people licenses if they did not fit the current definition of people that could get legally married.
I get it. His side prevailed. No issue there. The issue is that it is wrong to say one is wrong for defending her beliefs and somehow the other was right in defending his.
She's got all kinds of issues, but that is not the point of my question to you and my other liberal friends. I said that I want her fired, removed, whatever...and licenses issued.
I'd feel the exact same way about someone denying legal gun permits to people that are allowed to get them as I do about her denying marriage licenses to eligible people.
I also feel the same way about the Mayor issuing gun permits to people who "might" be eligible for them after a court decision that has not been rendered; I believe in the 2nd Amendment but he would have a duty to uphold the law until the law is changed.
Quote: ams288
Imagine if some clerk somewhere denied people their gun license due to violence being against their religion. Picture the uproar on the right! The people praising this hypocritical woman would be up in arms, and they would certainly threaten the life of whoever was attempting to deny their "2nd amendment rights" due to their religious beliefs.
My "gun license" is denied every day, has been ever since approximately 1934. I've never threatened someone's life over the fact that .gov won't give me a piece of paper. I just, you know, ignore .gov and do what I want. I encourage everyone to do the same. Try it. You'll like it.
I was going to joke about a "Gun Pride Parade" and camo flags and all that snark. Then I pictured it and it quickly became unfunny.
Quote: RonCIs it hypocritical to call for the firing, jailing, etc. of a lady who refuses to issue a marriage license to a gay couple when it is her duty (under the law and court order) to do so but to defend the issuing of marriage licenses to gay couples before they were legal?
Yes that would be hypocritical. Which is why the best solution would be for them to be treated exactly the same:
For each of them, their entire compensation for their job should be a commission based completely on how many same-sex marriage licenses they give out
Quote: ams288
As for the mayor, was it his duty to NOT issue people marriage licenses? Gay marriage wasn't legal then, it is now. Him denying them their rights would have amounted to a pointless delay in justice and nothing else.
The mayor was not empowered to issue said licenses. Him doing so is the same as him making up any law he wants. Imagine the uproar on the left if a NY mayor issued carry permits to anyone who asked without question or background check. The news would be there in minutes.
Sorry, you cannot have it both ways. If she is wrong, he is wrong.
Quote: kewlj78% of people under 30 support gay marriage, including 61% of republicans under 30, so good luck with that.
You are just one of those sad guys, refusing to accept reality, refusing to accept change, left standing there holding your confederate flag, longing for the past.
Mr J,
That is not your best post.
You disappointed.
That's OK though.
Everyone makes mistakes.
2F
EDIT: It should be pointed out that she is actually an elected Democrat. For those who say I never criticize Dems, well now you know that's just wrong.
Did any of those occur after she converted to her Christianity?Quote: ams288
Quote: TwoFeathersATLThat's OK though.
Everyone makes mistakes.
2F
Too bad that they wouldn't all just go away if no one voted. Makes sense, but it will never happen.
P.S. Please stop composing your type like Bob. One's enough.
P.P.S. To the mods. How about listing Bob's and twice F's latest posts at the top of the forum. Would make it easier in and out of here.
Quote: SanchoPanzaDid any of those occur after she converted to her Christianity?Quote: ams288
Dunno.
A federal judge just found her in contempt of court and put her in jail!
Even I didn't think it'd go that far.
Apparently "God's authority" ain't got nothing on a judge.
Quote: ams288Mike Huckabee is proud of this woman....
EDIT: It should be pointed out that she is actually an elected Democrat. For those who say I never criticize Dems, well now you know that's just wrong.
When religious people start pushing to outlaw divorce then I will take their moral argument seriously. There is a divorce epidemic among straight couples in America, and I don't see anyone making a biblical argument against divorce or talking about "the end of society".
People have been bisexual and gay since humans have existed. Being able to live openly without fear is not a bad thing. If somebody wants to live in a country where homosexuals are executed and traditional marriage is strictly enforced I suggest converting to Islam and moving to any Muslim country. Islamic culture is a great example of a "traditional" society....
Quote: GandlerBut you don't want to let "them" live without fear of drones. If all the people you have so much contempt for moved to a Muslim nation, you and the rest of the neocons would want to bomb them into the stone age. You want peace for you and yours, but won't allow it for someone who wants to live their life.Quote: ams288.... Being able to live openly without fear is not a bad thing.
You don't think there are traditional marriages in India [over 60 main religions] many Hindu. Or traditional marriages in China, or Africa?Quote:If somebody wants to live in a country where homosexuals are executed and traditional marriage is strictly enforced I suggest converting to Islam and moving to any Muslim country. Islamic culture is a great example of a "traditional" society....
Just have to get your neocon hate speech in there. In your world view, anyone who doesn't approve of same sex partners is Muslim, apparently, and would be a good target for the MIC. Wouldn't it be easier and cheaper for the world to just kill all the homosexuals?
It might serve very well to find out such information before posting broad offensive and quite outdated accusations.Quote: ams288Dunno.Quote: SanchoPanzaDid any of those occur after she converted to her Christianity?
Quote: petroglyphBut you don't want to let "them" live without fear of drones. If all the people you have so much contempt for moved to a Muslim nation, you and the rest of the neocons would want to bomb them into the stone age. You want peace for you and yours, but won't allow it for someone who wants to live their life. You don't think there are traditional marriages in India [over 60 main religions] many Hindu. Or traditional marriages in China, or Africa?
Just have to get your neocon hate speech in there. In your world view, anyone who doesn't approve of same sex partners is Muslim, apparently, and would be a good target for the MIC. Wouldn't it be easier and cheaper for the world to just kill all the homosexuals?
Yes I am such a hateful man because I am defending love against the aggressors....
But yes I am a proud secular Neoconservative and make no apologies for defending Western Values which are Superior to Islamic Values.
Marriages in China and India are not even slightly equivalent to marriages in the Islamic world.... I don't want to kill anyone, but I want people to educate themselves and stop believing in Bronze age myths that encourage hate.
The Islamic World needs to be "Book Bombed" as Sam Harris has said.
And, you are right killing defenseless gay men is easier, which is why your friends are doing it on literally a daily basis....
Quote: SanchoPanzaIt might serve very well to find out such information before posting broad offensive and quite outdated accusations.
"Outdated accusations?"
Which of those accusations is false? Was she not married all those times?
Quote: ams288
A federal judge just found her in contempt of court and put her in jail!
Even I didn't think it'd go that far.
Apparently "God's authority" ain't got nothing on a judge.
Judge didn't think fines would affect her much at 80k salary, and the fact that people are raising money to pay her fines.
All good lawyers will tell a client to obey all court orders and all judges orders.
A good lawyer thanks the Judge for any decision.
If they disagree, they apeal.
A good lawyer would never tell a client to disobey.
This is all about a money grab for the orginazation behind the lawyers.
Ton of donations means keeping the gravy train going
Has nothing to do with what is best for the client
Its about keeping this in the news to keep the money grab going
Greed
Quote: SanchoPanzaIt might serve very well to find out such information before posting broad offensive and quite outdated accusations.
AMS posted facts.
It serves this board very well to post facts regarding the topic of discussion
Every major news outlet on the planet has reported her marriage history.
She is famous and her marriage history is now common knowledge
Well done AMS
Keep it up :-)
Quote: Gandler
People have been bisexual and gay since humans have existed. Being able to live openly without fear is not a bad thing. If somebody wants to live in a country where homosexuals are executed and traditional marriage is strictly enforced I suggest converting to Islam and moving to any Muslim country. Islamic culture is a great example of a "traditional" society....
Admin/Mods:
This topic is getting very off-thread. A judge in KY has nothing to do with the 2016 election. Can we split this part of the thread off, probably to GLBT Corner where it more belongs.
Quote: AZDuffmanAdmin/Mods:
This topic is getting very off-thread. A judge in KY has nothing to do with the 2016 election. Can we split this part of the thread off, probably to GLBT Corner where it more belongs.
??????
Republican Presidential candidates have weighed in on the Kim Davis controversy.
Jindal, Walker, Paul and Huck are defending Kim Davis.
Quote: terapined??????
Republican Presidential candidates have weighed in on the Kim Davis controversy.
Jindal, Walker, Paul and Huck are defending Kim Davis.
Just 'weighing in" does not make it about the election. It is a regional sideshow. Which is why this should be split off.
Quote: terapined??????
Republican Presidential candidates have weighed in on the Kim Davis controversy.
Jindal, Walker, Paul and Huck are defending Kim Davis.
I saw Huckabee on Morning Joe this morning defending her.
He was talking gibberish about how Kentucky hasn't passed any laws affirming the Supreme Court's decision so what she is doing is okay.
What an idiot. Clearly he has no idea how the U.S. constitution works.
Even conservative Joe Scarborough was like "WTF are you talking about?"
Quote: GandlerQuote: petroglyphWrong thread
There goes liberal dreams of a 3rd Party run,
Quote: AZDuffmanTrump signs GOP loyalty pledge
There goes liberal dreams of a 3rd Party run,
It's not legally binding.
Trump thinks he's gonna be the nominee. That's why he signed it.
But if he doesn't get it, will he honor it?
Quote: ams288
But if he doesn't get it, will he honor it?
I don't see why he wouldn't.
As a very wealthy man he could offer to pay the cost of leasing and operating some ships, and pay the cost of buses or trains used to transport as many refugees / migrants as the European countries can snare and capture and then ship them back to the countries they came from.
"See ya, and if you want to come back go through proper channels."
Quote: AZDuffmanTrump signs GOP loyalty pledge
There goes liberal dreams of a 3rd Party run,
Its meaningless
He's got the nomination locked up.
Quote: terapinedQuote: AZDuffmanTrump signs GOP loyalty pledge
There goes liberal dreams of a 3rd Party run,
Its meaningless
He's got the nomination locked up.
Yeah, just like Hillary at this time in 2008 and Dean in 2004.
Quote: AZDuffmanQuote: terapinedQuote: AZDuffmanTrump signs GOP loyalty pledge
There goes liberal dreams of a 3rd Party run,
Its meaningless
He's got the nomination locked up.
Yeah, just like Hillary at this time in 2008 and Dean in 2004.
I did not call it for Hillary in 2008
I did not call it for Dean in 2004
I am calling it for Trump in 2016 to be the Republican Nominee.
Quote: terapinedQuote: AZDuffmanQuote: terapinedQuote: AZDuffmanTrump signs GOP loyalty pledge
There goes liberal dreams of a 3rd Party run,
Its meaningless
He's got the nomination locked up.
Yeah, just like Hillary at this time in 2008 and Dean in 2004.
I did not call it for Hillary in 2008
I did not call it for Dean in 2004
I am calling it for Trump in 2016 to be the Republican Nominee.
But you didn't put any chips on the felt.
Quote: TwoFeathersATLQuote: terapinedQuote: AZDuffmanQuote: terapinedQuote: AZDuffmanTrump signs GOP loyalty pledge
There goes liberal dreams of a 3rd Party run,
Its meaningless
He's got the nomination locked up.
Yeah, just like Hillary at this time in 2008 and Dean in 2004.
I did not call it for Hillary in 2008
I did not call it for Dean in 2004
I am calling it for Trump in 2016 to be the Republican Nominee.
But you didn't put any chips on the felt.
How much do you want to bet?
Terms?
Quote: kewljThere is also difference between acts of civil disobedience and doing or not doing a job that you are being paid to do. She is being paid to issue marriage licenses. If she has a conflict and cannot do that job, she needs to resign and find something that she is comfortable with. Why should the taxpayers pay her to not do the job she was hired for or in this case elected to and swore to do.
I remember reading that the woman has been married 4 times, so she is no poster child for the virtues of marriage.
this shouldn't even be an issue. I'm pretty sure she's not the only one in the office that can issue a license. What the hell happens when she's on vacation or sick?
If she truly has religious objections she should not be forced to issue, just send the people to the next available clerk. The law was not in effect for her to object when she was hired.
Personally, I think she id trying to exploit the situation by getting her 15 minutes of notoriety. If she was fired, unfortunately, she'd probably raise a million on some gofundme site from the religitards and sit on the beach with a mai tai instead of behind the clerks desk.
The fact that we are discussing this is rediculous. Whoever is in charge of the office is not doing their job as well and has no management ability whatsoever.
Quote: ams288"Outdated accusations?" Which of those accusations is false? Was she not married all those times?
Quote: terapinedEvery major news outlet on the planet has reported her marriage history. She is famous and her marriage history is now common knowledge
The unwillingness to check on statements that one posts or sees posted and place them in history before delivering opinions, especially unfriendly ones, is striking confirmation of a narrow and biased mindset. In this instance, Ms. Davis's romantic escapades ended before she converted to Apostolic Christianity several years ago. And well before the Supreme Court took it upon itself to redefine the definition of marriage that had stood for millennia.
As for invoking sordid pasts, that explains why the federal laws outlawing marijuana have never been enforced. If such hypocrisy is a criteria, then it should be applied to the likes of Trayvon Martin, Michael Brown and Shannon Miles, among many others. Let the profiling begin. And no objections, please!
As for Ms Davis's "fame," the coverage by "every major news outlet" can hardly be called surprising. Thanks to the many times that she was elected, her marriage history was well known in the region. That accounts for why so many deputies were ready to step up to the plate. The push for national exposure betrays only how she has been made a target of vilification.
Want to prosecute officials for not following laws other than the two mentioned above? Start with the sheriff in San Francisco. Continue with Lt. Gov. Gavin Newsome and take a good look at the District of Columbia officials who adamantly refuse to even budge on various judicial orders to issue concealed carry permits.
Not to mention all the officials with and without clearance who shuffled around Secret and Top Secret national security material on ridiculously insecure personal devices.
Quote: terapinedI did not call it for Hillary in 2008
I did not call it for Dean in 2004
I am calling it for Trump in 2016 to be the Republican Nominee.
Well, I think this is a little crazy. Although it's now Sept, it is still before Labor day, which seems to be the official time when things start to get a little more serious.
But, THIS most definitely is sort of new ground stuff. I think you gotta start throwing all conventional wisdom out the window.
A couple thoughts from the day: First I don't think Trump signing "the pledge" means a damn thing. This is a man who has divorced a number of times, filed numerous bankruptcies, defaulted on payments to creditors, suppliers etc, how many times? His word doesn't mean a whole lot to me. If at a future time he decides he wants to run third party, he will and breaking this pledge won't mean all that much to those that support him. He will just put some spin on it that he is doing what is best for the country and at least some will buy it and eat it up.
I also found the press conference after the "pledge signing" interesting. Carried Live by all three news networks, plus two financial networks. Trump is spending no money....ZERO on TV advertising. He doesn't need to. He dominates the TV airwaves at a zero cost. That has to be real troubling for everyone else who is paying for TV times and getting no traction for their dollar.
The national Monmouth Poll released today is amazing. Trump at 30%, Carson at 18%. Jeb at 8%. Assuming Carson isn't a viable threat with no organization and not all that much money, Trump is leading by 22 points over Jeb who just appears almost fatally wounded at the moment. What is even more stunning is Walker at 3% and Rand Paul at 2%. These were supposed to be top tier guys, the main threat to Bush and it looks like they are basically on life support.
I am still enjoying the ride (on both sides) and looking forward to the next couple months. :)
I mean if she took a job in a slaughter house, would it make sense to say she can't do that job, because her religious beliefs forbid her from killing other living things? No, she couldn't make an issue of that. You don't take that job....that is your option. In this case if here beliefs conflict with her doing this job of issuing marriage licenses, she has the option to find other work. She isn't being persecuted because of her beliefs. Give me a break.
In this case, her job description changed. That certainly happens, and unfortunately the change may be something the person objects to doing.
But, it appears she's done nothing but stonewall the job being done in other ways -- maybe by others or whatever they've suggested.
So, it seems pretty appropriate, that she is completely responsible for her current situation -- being in jail.
Quote: rxwinePersonally, I object to the idea of people taking jobs where they know they can't do part of the job already. I think Judge Judy would say, "Are you stupid or what?" for people who do it on purpose.
In this case, her job description changed. That certainly happens, and unfortunately the change may be something the person objects to doing.
I think if you took this situation out of the realm of the gay marriage issue, people supporting Ms Davis would see it differently.
What if she refused to issue marriage licenses to couple that had previously divorced (also because of religious beliefs)? Or what if she refused to issue a marriage license to a 30 year old female marrying a wealthy 75 year old man (obvious gold digger case) because she objects to that type of thing? Does she have the right to deny on either of these situations? Her beliefs or what she approves of just don't enter into it. She has a job to do and if she can't do it, she has the option to find a new job, not deny people who legally allowed to get married, but don't meet here criteria.
after the debate, said Trump was a clown, he had no
chance. Tonight on Fox he said, Trump has a good
chance of winning the nomination. A complete reversal
in a month.
More shocking than that was Brit Hume, the old news
warhorse. He said he is transfixed by Trump. When Trump
is on TV, he can't take his eyes off him. He says Trump
is the most entertaining candidate he's ever seen, and
you can't help but like the guy. This is saying a lot from
Hume, who never really likes anybody.
I've always liked Trump, he's the Cassius Clay of real
estate. He floats like a butterfly and stings like a bee.
He's always ten steps ahead of everybody, takes no
crap, the original alpha male.
Quote: EvenBobA month is a long time. A month ago, Krauthammer
after the debate, said Trump was a clown, he had no
chance. Tonight on Fox he said, Trump has a good
chance of winning the nomination. A complete reversal
in a month.
More shocking than that was Brit Hume, the old news
warhorse. He said he is transfixed by Trump. When Trump
is on TV, he can't take his eyes off him. He says Trump
is the most entertaining candidate he's ever seen, and
you can't help but like the guy. This is saying a lot from
Hume, who never really likes anybody.
I've always liked Trump, he's the Cassius Clay of real
estate. He floats like a butterfly and stings like a bee.
He's always ten steps ahead of everybody, takes no
crap, the original alpha male.
Oh I finally figured it out. Check under Trump's hair for 666. Maybe he's the beast.
BTW, I think Nevada is a caucus state? I don't know how that works. I know it involves more time, like several hours on caucus night. I'll have to look into that. Even THAT experience might be interesting.
Since I am responding to you EB, I wish to say that I was impressed with some of your responses earlier in this thread, in the back and forth with AZduffman. You sounded like the reasonable person in the room. lol.
It becomes confusing, however, when so many people disobey the laws (sanctuary cities, for example) and the same people who want her in jail for this transgression don't want the people ignoring federal law held accountable.
Are the laws (and in many cases their may not yet be a marriage law allowing the marriage of gays, but there is an order than should be obeyed from the SC until those laws are in place) about marriage the only laws we should worry about people who obeying and enforcing?
People who hold positions of authority should be accountable to ALL the laws, not just some. Republican or Democrat, conservative or liberal...
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/poll-carson-tops-trump-in-head-to-head-gop-matchup/article/2571396
There is still a long way to go. At this point, Trump is getting all of the free air time and using it effectively for his style. He is supposed to be issuing some his "plans" within the month. He's a serious contender but without a serious set of plans at this point. If those plans come out and what they say will be important to at least some.
Both he and Carson are gathering support lost by others. If it continues, there will be some serious consolidation and another candidate--more establishment oriented--may rise also.
The Dems have their issues, too. Beyond Clinton, what do they really have? A socialist? The Vice President? A few virtually unknowns? This isn't getting much attention because Trump is...but I find it interesting. Their lower-tier (at this point) candidates could use some the air Trump is getting, but they can't get it...
Quote: EvenBob
He's always ten steps ahead of everybody, takes no
crap, the original alpha male.
Remember when Algore hired some woman to make him appear more of an alpha male? Limbaugh called him "Alpha Gore" the day it came out. Of course it didn't work at all. Alpha male behavior is looked down upon in popular culture, which is why you so rarely see it in politics. The press beats it out of men. Pols let the press do this. Not Trump.
Quote: SanchoPanzaIn this instance, Ms. Davis's romantic escapades ended before she converted to Apostolic Christianity several years ago.
Who cares?
Becoming a religious person doesn't make one immune to criticism for their past actions.
To me, this Davis hag is just trash.
She realized what a crappy life she was leading and "found god" to give some meaning to her miserable existence.
So that makes unshakable and un-reformable pasts also applicable in the other examples cited. Interesting!Quote: ams288Who cares? Becoming a religious person doesn't make one immune to criticism for their past actions. To me, this Davis hag is just trash. She realized what a crappy life she was leading and "found god" to give some meaning to her miserable existence.
