AZDuffman
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November 8th, 2012 at 11:53:52 AM permalink
The GOP has more Latinos in elected office than Democrats do. This is at all levels. Going Democrat at about 3:1 in the last election the claim is Latinos will soon be a Democrat stronghold same as Blacks. I do not totally buy that, but I do agree the message is not getting through in the way the GOP wishes it to. As Catholics, Latinos should not be turned off by a pro-life message, for example.

The last two days all the talk is "how can the GOP 'reach out' to Latinos?'" On one level, I take issue with the "reach out" terminology as a message should be a message with skin color not mattering. And my guess is the country-club establishment GOP members will screw it up same as GM made the Aztek beause GM thought "young people like stuff that looks like this!" and flip their message. But how about a discussion here.

What, I ask, should the GOP do in this matter without changing the ideology of the party. The common answer is "just drop opposition to illegal immigration" but I do not buy that, nor would I think it is a good idea. Ask a legal immigrant how they feel about people who come here illegally, you may be suprised.

Lets hear it.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
RaleighCraps
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November 8th, 2012 at 12:09:47 PM permalink
GOP, DEM, IND, is all irrelevant to me. Just give me a candidate who is willing to represent the majority of the people at large.

NOT HIMSELF, NOT THE PARTY, NOT THE PEOPLE WHO SPENT MILLIONS PUTTING HIM IN OFFICE, NOT THE POLITCOS, NOR THE LOBBYISTS.
Problem is, those people don't exist. Well, they do, but their name never gets out to the public, because the juggernauts run them over.

The British Prime Minister was on Letterman a few weeks ago and he was describing the election process. If I recall correctly, he was not allowed to advertise on TV, and his spend was limited to a certain amount. NO CANDIDATE is allowed to spend over that amount, and it was not a lot. 10,000 or 100,000 pounds I think. I wish I had paid more attention to those details.

Next year I vote for the candidates who DO NOT robocall my freaking house every day.
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UP84
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November 8th, 2012 at 12:17:59 PM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

The GOP has more Latinos in elected office than Democrats do. This is at all levels.....



Well, first you should get your facts straight.
Of the current 24 Latino members of the House, 17 are Democrats and only 7 Republicans.

DEMOCRATS
Raúl Grijalva (Arizona)
Ed Pastor (Arizona)
Linda Sánchez (California)
Joe Baca (California)
Grace Napolitano (California)
Loretta Sanchez (California)
Xavier Becerra (California)
Lucille Roybal-Allard (California)
Luis Gutiérrez (Illinois)
Albio Sires (New Jersey)
Ben R. Luján (New Mexico)
Nydia Velázquez (New York)
José Serrano (New York)
Henry Cuellar (Texas)
Charlie Gonzalez (Texas)
Silvestre Reyes (Texas)
Rubén Hinojosa (Texas)

REPUBLICAN
David Rivera (Florida)
Mario Diaz-Balart (Florida)
Ileana Ros-Lehtinen (Florida)
Raúl Labrador (Idaho)
Francisco "Quico" Canseco (Texas)
Bill Flores (Texas)
Jaime Herrera (Washington)
rdw4potus
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November 8th, 2012 at 12:21:01 PM permalink
Quote: UP84

Well, first you should get your facts straight.
Of the current 24 Latino members of the House, 17 are Democrats and only 7 Republicans.

DEMOCRATS
Raúl Grijalva (Arizona)
Ed Pastor (Arizona)
Linda Sánchez (California)
Joe Baca (California)
Grace Napolitano (California)
Loretta Sanchez (California)
Xavier Becerra (California)
Lucille Roybal-Allard (California)
Luis Gutiérrez (Illinois)
Albio Sires (New Jersey)
Ben R. Luján (New Mexico)
Nydia Velázquez (New York)
José Serrano (New York)
Henry Cuellar (Texas)
Charlie Gonzalez (Texas)
Silvestre Reyes (Texas)
Rubén Hinojosa (Texas)

REPUBLICAN
David Rivera (Florida)
Mario Diaz-Balart (Florida)
Ileana Ros-Lehtinen (Florida)
Raúl Labrador (Idaho)
Francisco "Quico" Canseco (Texas)
Bill Flores (Texas)
Jaime Herrera (Washington)



It's not at each level, but at all levels. The math only works if you sum all elected latinos across all levels of government.

Edit: and I guess we should talk about what tense we want to use and/or how we want to describe the present. For example, Canseco lost on Tuesday but he's a "current" GOP rep.
"So as the clock ticked and the day passed, opportunity met preparation, and luck happened." - Maurice Clarett
FarFromVegas
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November 8th, 2012 at 12:58:49 PM permalink
Listen.

Change the tone.

Stop insulting or dismissing large groups of people, implying that "they" are voting for Santa, because they want "stuff" or for us to throw open the borders to illegals. Americans are Americans even when they have brown skin or accents. Calling them Macaca doesn't fly. Calling them victims doesn't fly. Calling them sluts doesn't fly.

Eliminate the culture of disrespect that seems to pervade the party and their de facto spokesmen and you'll go farther.
Each of us is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts. Preparing for a fight about your bad decision is not as smart as making a good decision.
Buzzard
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November 8th, 2012 at 1:01:51 PM permalink
You mean there really is such a thing as involuntary rape ? Versus a democratic victim mentality.
Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet
Boz
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November 8th, 2012 at 1:11:49 PM permalink
Quote: FarFromVegas

Listen.

Change the tone.

Stop insulting or dismissing large groups of people, implying that "they" are voting for Santa, because they want "stuff" or for us to throw open the borders to illegals. Americans are Americans even when they have brown skin or accents. Calling them Macaca doesn't fly. Calling them victims doesn't fly. Calling them sluts doesn't fly.

Eliminate the culture of disrespect that seems to pervade the party and their de facto spokesman and you'll go farther.



Lets take it one by one:

Santa: Are you arguing that people DIDNT vote for Obama because they think they will get more from him than they would have from Romney? Certainly not everyone, but a good percentage of young and so called "poor" voters did.

Americans are Americans....IF they are here legally. You broke the law to come here, you need to leave, even if you have been here for 50 years.

Macaca: Where did you dig this reference from 6 years ago out of? Much worse stuff is said the Huffington Post or MSNBC on a daily basis. See Chris and his joy of Hurricane Sandy.

Victims: They made it easy and the President helps it when he talks about people like him that are "Lucky", instead of pushing Hard Work and Risk taking. Did Bill Gates or Steve Jobs get "Lucky" or did they create something. Bringing up the generations of poor minorities in cities brings out the left calling them vicitims of their environment and saying they never had a chance because of upbringing and such.

Sluts: I'll let that one go since we never got an answer on how many partners Ms Fluke or the womans Basketball Team at Rutgers had.

And why not say "Rush" instead of hinting about it. Funny how liberals always look to bash him when he has never run for office or been an offical with the GOP. Maybe he is popular because people believe what he says.
Buzzard
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November 8th, 2012 at 1:13:59 PM permalink
" Did Bill Gates or Steve Jobs get "Lucky" or did they create something."

How many Ipads did Bill Gates build in his garage? Republicans tend to overlook the fact that ALL wealth comes from labor !
Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet
FarFromVegas
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November 8th, 2012 at 1:27:01 PM permalink
Quote: Boz

Lets take it one by one:

Santa: Are you arguing that people DIDNT vote for Obama because they think they will get more from him than they would have from Romney? Certainly not everyone, but a good percentage of young and so called "poor" voters did.

Americans are Americans....IF they are here legally. You broke the law to come here, you need to leave, even if you have been here for 50 years.

Macaca: Where did you dig this reference from 6 years ago out of? Much worse stuff is said the Huffington Post or MSNBC on a daily basis. See Chris and his joy of Hurricane Sandy.

Victims: They made it easy and the President helps it when he talks about people like him that are "Lucky", instead of pushing Hard Work and Risk taking. Did Bill Gates or Steve Jobs get "Lucky" or did they create something. Bringing up the generations of poor minorities in cities brings out the left calling them vicitims of their environment and saying they never had a chance because of upbringing and such.

Sluts: I'll let that one go since we never got an answer on how many partners Ms Fluke or the womans Basketball Team at Rutgers had.

And why not say "Rush" instead of hinting about it. Funny how liberals always look to bash him when he has never run for office or been an offical with the GOP. Maybe he is popular because people believe what he says.



I didn't vote for a Santa. I may not be in the 1% but I'm probably in the 2%. I'm not young and I'm not poor and sometimes people vote for principles over pocketbook.

Not all immigrants are here illegally. Some become citizens. Like my mom. Lumping them in with the illegals rather than seeing them as Americans is unhelpful to your cause.

"Macaca" went to college with my niece. No digging needed. I live in Virginia.

I have a friend who had to go on birth control to regulate ovulation occurring every two weeks, causing her to become anemic. She was unmarried. That slut. Oh, yeah--she was in 7th grade...

"Rush" said Santa, but O'Reilly said "stuff." The GOP have adopted Rush and Fox. The people who believe what they say are becoming fewer and fewer. The party can stick with Rush and alienate more people or tell him to put a sock in it, and they don't, so one can assume they agree.

So, stick with those ideas if you want, but don't expect to keep any kind of national majority.
Each of us is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts. Preparing for a fight about your bad decision is not as smart as making a good decision.
rdw4potus
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November 8th, 2012 at 1:42:36 PM permalink
Quote: FarFromVegas


"Macaca" went to college with my niece. No digging needed. I live in Virginia.



Personal connection or not, George Allen was on the ballot 2 days ago. Can't imagine it was hard to remember the "Macaca" moment from the last time he ran, especially in VA...
"So as the clock ticked and the day passed, opportunity met preparation, and luck happened." - Maurice Clarett
FarFromVegas
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November 8th, 2012 at 1:54:13 PM permalink
Quote: rdw4potus

Personal connection or not, George Allen was on the ballot 2 days ago. Can't imagine it was hard to remember the "Macaca" moment from the last time he ran, especially in VA...



And Macaca never came up during the most recent campaign, but Allen still lost. They couldn't find another candidate? They think enough people think the same way and will vote for him because of it? Who knows.

I give AZD credit for looking for ways to stop making the same mistakes while others keep finding justifications to keep doing what isn't working.
Each of us is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts. Preparing for a fight about your bad decision is not as smart as making a good decision.
AZDuffman
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November 8th, 2012 at 2:43:56 PM permalink
Quote: Buzzard

" Did Bill Gates or Steve Jobs get "Lucky" or did they create something."

How many Ipads did Bill Gates build in his garage? Republicans tend to overlook the fact that ALL wealth comes from labor !



Doesn't matter if they built them themselves or not. They made the idea. The labor was paid for. Gates and jobs leveraged it better. No one stopped anyone else from making a competing product.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
FarFromVegas
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November 8th, 2012 at 2:47:01 PM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

Doesn't matter if they built them themselves or not. They made the idea. The labor was paid for. Gates and jobs leveraged it better. No one stopped anyone else from making a competing product.



And Jobs and Gates both donated to Democratic causes.
Each of us is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts. Preparing for a fight about your bad decision is not as smart as making a good decision.
rdw4potus
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November 8th, 2012 at 2:52:40 PM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

No one stopped anyone else from making a competing product.



How many anti-trust and patent law suits have Apple and Microsoft been parties in?
"So as the clock ticked and the day passed, opportunity met preparation, and luck happened." - Maurice Clarett
rxwine
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November 8th, 2012 at 3:02:12 PM permalink
Quote: FarFromVegas

Listen.

Change the tone.



Or double down

Quote:

MARK LEVIN: We conservatives, we do not accept bipartisanship in the pursuit of tyranny. Period. We will not negotiate the terms of our economic and political servitude. Period. We will not abandon our child to a dark and bleak future. We will not accept a fate that is alien to the legacy we inherited from every single future generation in this country. We will not accept social engineering by politicians and bureaucrats who treat us like lab rats, rather than self-sufficient human beings. There are those in this country who choose tyranny over liberty. They do not speak for us, 57 million of us who voted against this yesterday, and they do not get to dictate to us under our Constitution.

We are the alternative. We will resist. We're not going to surrender to this. We will not be passive, we will not be compliant in our demise. We're not good losers, you better believe we're sore losers! A good loser is a loser forever. Now I hear we're called 'purists.' Conservatives are called purists. The very people who keep nominating moderates, now call us purists the way the left calls us purists. Yeah, things like liberty, and property rights, individual sovereignty, and the Constitution, and capitalism. We're purists now. And we have to hear this crap from conservatives, or pseudo-conservatives, Republicans.

There's no secret. Just know what you're talking about before you open your mouth.
Calder
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November 8th, 2012 at 3:02:21 PM permalink
Quote: FarFromVegas

So, stick with those ideas if you want, but don't expect to keep any kind of national majority.



You make it sound like there was some kind of landslide. The popular vote was 50 / 48, with fewer voters turning out than in 2008.
FarFromVegas
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November 8th, 2012 at 3:09:52 PM permalink
Quote: Calder

You make it sound like there was some kind of landslide. The popular vote was 50 / 48, with fewer voters turning out than in 2008.



I didn't say landslide. 50/48 IS a majority. You make it sound like he only won the Electoral College and not the popular vote.

You don't have to change ideology if you stop labelling and insulting people. Even Megan McCain said something about calling people like her RINO! When even the women you DO manage to attract are complaining about how you talk about them and you don't listen, well, good luck in the future.
Each of us is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts. Preparing for a fight about your bad decision is not as smart as making a good decision.
Calder
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November 8th, 2012 at 3:23:51 PM permalink
Quote: FarFromVegas

50/48 IS a majority



Of course, but hardly of the sort that requires a complete overhaul of ideology.

Quote: FarFromVegas

...stop labelling and insulting people...



I don't think this is within the sole purview of the Republican party. In fact, I thought Romney ran a remarkably above-board campaign, given the tenor of the times.

As for McCain's complaining about being called a RINO, everyone who is called a RINO objects. Intra-party squabbles matter only to the parties, and the press. It strikes me as a bit whiny, coming from someone whose father has been in politics for thirty years.
s2dbaker
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November 8th, 2012 at 3:55:32 PM permalink
Bill O'Reilly said it best. "People feel that they are entitled to things". The GOP should offer stuff to people and they will get their votes but it might alienate Whites who apparently aren't American enough to want stuff.

Lady voters like to murder the babies in their wombs so the GOP should offer free abortion services to all broads and that'll get rid of the so-called "Gender Gap". Catering to the men in dresses and fabulous hats in those Catholic churches sure didn't help much.

Sharing posts on YouTube would help too (NSFW).

Learning how to vote multiple times without getting caught could be of benefit.

Or the GOP could just accept that reality has a liberal bias.
Someday, joor goin' to see the name of Googie Gomez in lights and joor goin' to say to joorself, "Was that her?" and then joor goin' to answer to joorself, "That was her!" But you know somethin' mister? I was always her yuss nobody knows it! - Googie Gomez
FarFromVegas
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November 8th, 2012 at 3:59:15 PM permalink
Quote: Calder

Of course, but hardly of the sort that requires a complete overhaul of ideology.





That was the whole point of my post--you don't need to change the ideology if you don't go around turning people off! It wasn't a landslide and you can chip away small percentages by not being perceived as a bunch of nasty bastards who look down everyone who is different!

Try being nice. Just pretend if you have to. That's the advice I'm giving because AZD asked how to broaden support without a complete ideological overhaul. A journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step, etc.
Each of us is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts. Preparing for a fight about your bad decision is not as smart as making a good decision.
MonkeyMonkey
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November 8th, 2012 at 4:02:21 PM permalink
Quote: FarFromVegas

Listen.

Change the tone.

Stop insulting or dismissing large groups of people, implying that "they" are voting for Santa, because they want "stuff" or for us to throw open the borders to illegals. Americans are Americans even when they have brown skin or accents. Calling them Macaca doesn't fly. Calling them victims doesn't fly. Calling them sluts doesn't fly.

Eliminate the culture of disrespect that seems to pervade the party and their de facto spokesmen and you'll go farther.



This sounds like a fair assessment to me.

What I find puzzling is that the culture of disrespect seems to come from both parties, yet the people (that voted) seem to prefer one to the other.
rdw4potus
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November 8th, 2012 at 4:07:46 PM permalink
It's going to end up at more like 51 or 52% to 47% (maybe 48%). Lots of votes still to count in OR and WA, in CA, in OH, plus all the provisional ballots.

I thought Romney's core campaign was very above board right up to the last week. The Jeep ad was one of the worst ideas in modern politics. It was not announced or promoted by the campaign, though they did release it directly. It was based on an outright lie, poorly conceived, and aired in a place where people just knew better. It really may have cost Romney Ohio. If the GOP wanted to try that message, that's really something that a 3rd party should have said. Then Romney could have disavowed it and they'd have both planted the seed with the lie and allowed Romney to appear measured and moderate. (yes, I realize that direct coordination is illegal. I also realize that the people involved are the best of friends. Discussions happen)

That YouTube post is awesome. Really really awesome. That's pretty much the reason that I don't drink right there. The best part is where she's like "I had 220 subscribers and 200 videos. There were over a million views! You f*ckers didn't SHARE!!!"
"So as the clock ticked and the day passed, opportunity met preparation, and luck happened." - Maurice Clarett
Calder
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November 8th, 2012 at 4:24:06 PM permalink
Fair enough, though I'd question whether anyone outside a core Democrat shares the "nasty bastard" perception.

I hardly think Romney was perceived as nasty, and I suspect the 47% remark was of interest mostly to the press, rather than to independent voters. Given the closeness of the race, this was a turnout election, and the Democrats did a better job of getting out their base.

Either way, it's happy hour, and time for another Hacker-Pschorr. Cheers!
AZDuffman
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November 8th, 2012 at 4:42:27 PM permalink
Quote: rdw4potus

How many anti-trust and patent law suits have Apple and Microsoft been parties in?



So they protect their intellectual property. Still stops nobody from competing.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
thecesspit
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November 8th, 2012 at 5:22:23 PM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

So they protect their intellectual property. Still stops nobody from competing.



I'd suggest it actually does. Probably not the ipad/hardware wars (the barriers to entry their are huge), but there is a body of thought and research that a lot of patent suits are stiffling smaller IT businesses. That's gotta change. It's all good to say that you want innovation and help for the small business, someone has to go for bat in there. I'm not saying this is something either party is good at. Patents aren't protecting intellectual property in a lot of cases. They are not detailed enough to meet the original idea of a patent (the one that the founding fathers meant... detailed enough to show the METHOD to reproduce, not just the idea itself).
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
MrV
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November 8th, 2012 at 6:12:50 PM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

"how can the GOP 'reach out' to Latinos?'"



Hire them to work in their factories.

I mean, in their offshore factories in Mexico.
"What, me worry?"
98Clubs
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November 8th, 2012 at 6:39:57 PM permalink
IMHO...

In order to reach-out involves a principle not common in today's society. The GOP has to compromise the Big money voters like a FORD, IBM M$, Exxon-Mobil etc, the largest corporations in the W. Hemisphere/World. IMHO reaching out is akin to a city with two (or more) Hospitals. One does NOT provide reproductive services, and at least one does. The problem crouches, ready to leap-out, in that some cities have only one Hospital. /IMHO
Some people need to reimagine their thinking.
FinsRule
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November 8th, 2012 at 6:52:41 PM permalink
GOP needs to stop shooting themselves in the foot (i.e. STOP TALKING ABOUT RAPE) in the statewide elections.

For President, they need to recognize that they need someone a little more moderate.

Simple.
AZDuffman
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November 8th, 2012 at 7:12:14 PM permalink
Quote: FinsRule

GOP needs to stop shooting themselves in the foot (i.e. STOP TALKING ABOUT RAPE) in the statewide elections.

For President, they need to recognize that they need someone a little more moderate.

Simple.



More moderate than McCain or Romney are you serious?

Obama is far left and that was no issue so it seems.

I agree the rape comments were bad. Second worse because you can smack him and ask didn't be see the first guy?
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rdw4potus
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November 8th, 2012 at 7:22:34 PM permalink
The problem with Romney really was the shifting on every issue. He failed at something that's really pretty simple. Keep one position on each issue, but discuss different issues with different audiences. Don't pretend to have different positions depending on the audience. There's a group of people in the room who are actually paid to tell the public what you're saying...

In a way, it's too bad the primaries required Romney to get the blessing of the far right side of the party. October Romney could have won, especially with Ryan there to help bring out the base. But February Romney was pretty far right, and he chased away self-identified moderates.

On the rape thing, not only did Mourdock see what happened to Akin, but he also watched Donnelly somewhat boringly answer the question with an "I'm for pro-life," and then still trip all over himself. All he had to say was "me too," and then move on and size the drapes for his new office.
"So as the clock ticked and the day passed, opportunity met preparation, and luck happened." - Maurice Clarett
kewlj
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November 8th, 2012 at 7:23:04 PM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman


What, I ask, should the GOP do in this matter without changing the ideology of the party. The common answer is "just drop opposition to illegal immigration" but I do not buy that, nor would I think it is a good idea. Ask a legal immigrant how they feel about people who come here illegally, you may be suprised.
Lets hear it.



Good topic, AZD. It's not JUST a matter of policy, but also a matter of tone. And the tone of some of the responses in this thread is not very welcoming, inviting nor inclusive. Look at the wording used in the GOP platform, which is drafted sort of behind closed doors and signifies what they really believe and would like the country to be. It is not real inclusive of anyone who isn't white, male, christian. If they actually ran and campaigned on that platform, they would suffer a landslide defeat of McGovern era proportions, so they don't dare. But yet they put it out there for all to see that they are not welcome. Although they don't campaign on the platform, the unwelcoming nature of it is noticed. At this point any changes the GOP were to make, would not be viewed as insincere. It would be viewed as recognizing that they are forced to do so in order to survive. Sort of like an exclusive white club finally accepting a few 'token' black members or an exclusive male golf club, accepting a few 'token' female members. Very insincere.

I don't think they GOP need drop their opposition to illegal immigration. I think reasonable people from both sides, realize we can no longer welcome everyone in the world that wants to come here as we always have. But they could show a little more compassion and recognize these people are only out to make a better life for themselves and their children, not all that different than their own ancestors (and mine) did earlier in the century or late last century. I think a good place to start is the dream act. Realizing that the children involved are not criminals. They are here through no fault of their own. They grew up here. This is their home. They serve in the military. The dream act requires them to get an education and be able to give something back.

I suspect rather than really becoming more welcoming and accepting, the GOP will just take the easy route and allow the token female member into the golf club. In this case they will probably put a Latino on the 2016 ticket, I suspect as VP. I would guess the leading candidates are currently Senator Rubio or Governor Martinez. Governor Martinez would have the added 'benefit' of being a female. It wouldn't surprise me if she were the choice. I think a ticket of a latino friendly Jeb Bush and Susana Martinez would probably help narrow the latino vote. I am not sure Senator Rubio would have the same appeal. Rubio is of Cuban descent and there is a much greater divide and differences between Cubans and other latino groups such as Mexicans, Puerto Ricans and latinos from Central and South America. Senator Rubio's appeal may not be what the GOP thinks it will be, outside of Florida and the large Cuban population.

I personally think they should abandon their opposition to gay marriage. Like the abortion issue, this opposition is based on religious views, but unlike abortion, it is not a matter of life and death. I mean really, why should they care what relationship two people have and/or what they choose to call themselves. It really is a pretty trivial fight. And the end is a forgone conclusion. Just by the numbers, support for gay marriage is about even nationally at the moment, but among people age 50 and under support is at 60%. Among 40 and under, 67%. It doesn't take a genius to fast forward 20 years, when the older portion of the population is gone and replaced by younger generations, what the final outcome will be. Pick your battles. This is a losing one for the GOP. The best they can hope for is to hang on for a couple more years on this issue before they eventually lose. Why not drop the opposition to a battle you are going to lose anyway and be more accepting and expand your base. There are a lot of conservative minded folks that should be in the GOP camp, but are excluded because of who they love. That makes no sense for a party with a shrinking base. Dropping opposition to gay marriage and homosexuality in general, would also put an end to all these gay republicans running around leading double lives as a family man while having gay affairs or encounters in the airport men's room. We all can do without hearing those stories. lol
Buzzard
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November 8th, 2012 at 7:25:32 PM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

Doesn't matter if they built them themselves or not. They made the idea. The labor was paid for. Gates and jobs leveraged it better. No one stopped anyone else from making a competing product.



Labor just wants a piece of the pie. What's so unfair about that ?
Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet
rdw4potus
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November 8th, 2012 at 7:40:03 PM permalink
Quote: Buzzard

Labor just wants a piece of the pie. What's so unfair about that ?



I don't understand that part, either. We're told that giving money to rich people means that everyone benefits, but then when labor asks for higher wages - which would seem like their part of the global benefit - it's as though it's a completely untenable and foreign concept.
"So as the clock ticked and the day passed, opportunity met preparation, and luck happened." - Maurice Clarett
rxwine
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November 8th, 2012 at 7:43:21 PM permalink
I will be more cynical, much as I like my liberal positions.

I think there are a multitude of reasons why the GOP failed.

Some of it was happenstance (luck). The Storm.

Some of it, like your candidates, You had what you had. You had good hints right from the very start Romney had trouble connecting, even with his own party. I think that was going to haunt him, not go away.

It's also possible you ran up against one of the better political machines in recent history.

Both parties have figured out, that if you can both run negative campaigns at the same level you essentially neutralize most of the effect.

You almost had Obama at the first debate. Unfortunately, for you, he really is not a poor debater and he had two more debates to prove it.
Other than that, Obama didn't have too many slips to work with, at least not new ones.

The Democrats ran one issue after another with Romney, then moved on to a new one constantly. Romneycare, Bain, Tax returns, then 47% remark, Ryan's budget, In addition, add in some dingbat comments from your congresscritters to derail Romney's message.

Obama made some astute moves with gays and latinos while the last thing the GOP was remembered for is deportation and defending marriage.


I'M PROBABLY EVEN FORGETING SOME STUFF, BUT THAT ADDS UP TO BAD MOJO FOR THE GOP IN THE LONG RUN
There's no secret. Just know what you're talking about before you open your mouth.
Buzzard
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November 8th, 2012 at 8:34:56 PM permalink
Russ Linbaugh will lead them out of the darkness. Gee, with a fat doper committed to serial marriages as their leader, how can they go wrong !
Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet
DigitalTim
DigitalTim
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November 8th, 2012 at 8:43:02 PM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

The GOP has more Latinos in elected office than Democrats do. This is at all levels. Going Democrat at about 3:1 in the last election the claim is Latinos will soon be a Democrat stronghold same as Blacks. I do not totally buy that, but I do agree the message is not getting through in the way the GOP wishes it to. As Catholics, Latinos should not be turned off by a pro-life message, for example.

The last two days all the talk is "how can the GOP 'reach out' to Latinos?'" On one level, I take issue with the "reach out" terminology as a message should be a message with skin color not mattering. And my guess is the country-club establishment GOP members will screw it up same as GM made the Aztek beause GM thought "young people like stuff that looks like this!" and flip their message. But how about a discussion here.

What, I ask, should the GOP do in this matter without changing the ideology of the party. The common answer is "just drop opposition to illegal immigration" but I do not buy that, nor would I think it is a good idea. Ask a legal immigrant how they feel about people who come here illegally, you may be suprised.

Lets hear it.



GOP, please do not change, try Preparation H.
kewlj
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November 8th, 2012 at 8:56:18 PM permalink
Speaking of the republican battle to preserve the sanctity of marriage, here are some interesting statistics from the wall street journal.
Highest divorce rate by state:

1. Nevada (no surprise there, marriage and divorce are big business here)
2. Arkansas
3. Wyoming
4. Idaho
5. West Virginia
6. Kentucky
7. Oklahoma
8. Alaska

Notice anything about 2 through 8? (think red state)

Now lowest divorce rate:

1. Massachusetts
2. District of Columbia
3. Pennsylvania
4. Iowa
5. New York

Notice anything about the states with lowest divorce rates?

God bless the religious right. Are they really qualified to say who should and shouldn't get married? lol
MathExtremist
MathExtremist
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November 8th, 2012 at 9:32:21 PM permalink
Here's another interesting factoid.

The average per capita GDP for states that went to Obama (including Florida): $53,910. Obama carried all but five of the richest states per capita.
Per capita GDP for states that went to Romney: $42.952. Romney carried all but five of the poorest states per capita.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
Calder
Calder
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November 8th, 2012 at 9:48:19 PM permalink
Quote: kewlj

God bless the religious right. Are they really qualified to say who should and shouldn't get married?



No, I'm satisfied with the decisions of the People, as expressed through their state legislatures. The problem occurs when those legislatures duck their responsibilities, and leave those decisions to an unelected Supreme Court.

Or when those who don't like what the legislature decides appeal to the courts to overturn the will of the People.
slyther
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November 9th, 2012 at 8:07:35 AM permalink
Quote: kewlj

Speaking of the republican battle to preserve the sanctity of marriage, here are some interesting statistics from the wall street journal.

...
Notice anything about the states with lowest divorce rates?

God bless the religious right. Are they really qualified to say who should and shouldn't get married? lol



The prevailing thought seems to be that when gay marriage is legalized that gays will never get divorced. Now that we will have it up here in Washington it will be interesting to see how those divorces go, since Washington judges always favor the woman.
FarFromVegas
FarFromVegas
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November 9th, 2012 at 8:12:50 AM permalink
Looks like some in the GOP understand:

Quote:

To McAllister, the GOP strategist, it comes down to Republicans needing to get better at communicating their core principles.

"They haven't been able to articulate the conservative Republican message without being insulting," he said.



Full article
Each of us is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts. Preparing for a fight about your bad decision is not as smart as making a good decision.
Buzzard
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November 9th, 2012 at 8:23:33 AM permalink
" he problem occurs when those legislatures duck their responsibilities, and leave those decisions to an unelected Supreme Court."

Another strict believer in the Constitution heard from ?
Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet
FarFromVegas
FarFromVegas
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November 9th, 2012 at 8:53:54 AM permalink
Quote: rdw4potus


That YouTube post is awesome. Really really awesome. That's pretty much the reason that I don't drink right there. The best part is where she's like "I had 220 subscribers and 200 videos. There were over a million views! You f*ckers didn't SHARE!!!"



OMG I just sat through the whole thing! It is pretty awesome. I thought butterscotch schnapps was relatively tame (I put it in after-dinner coffee during the holidays) but I'm going to go easy on the stuff this Thanksgiving, just in case.
Each of us is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts. Preparing for a fight about your bad decision is not as smart as making a good decision.
98Clubs
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November 9th, 2012 at 9:11:21 AM permalink
Quote: Buzzard

Russ Linbaugh will lead them out of the darkness. Gee, with a fat doper committed to serial marriages as their leader, how can they go wrong !



I couldn't stop laughing... how very true! +100 BUZZARD... made my day before NOON.
Some people need to reimagine their thinking.
98Clubs
98Clubs
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November 9th, 2012 at 9:15:42 AM permalink
Quote: MathExtremist

Here's another interesting factoid.

The average per capita GDP for states that went to Obama (including Florida): $53,910. Obama carried all but five of the richest states per capita.
Per capita GDP for states that went to Romney: $42.952. Romney carried all but five of the poorest states per capita.



In another thread, I posted that Obama carried 8 of the 10 richest Counties in the nation. +1
Some people need to reimagine their thinking.
FinsRule
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November 9th, 2012 at 9:23:07 AM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

More moderate than McCain or Romney are you serious?

Obama is far left and that was no issue so it seems.

I agree the rape comments were bad. Second worse because you can smack him and ask didn't be see the first guy?



Obama is not far left.

McCain is more moderate than Romney. The issue is that they need to suck up to the conservatives, so they say a bunch of crazy stuff that comes back to haunt them.

2016 should be a fairly easy election for the GOP to win.
Buzzard
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November 9th, 2012 at 9:23:11 AM permalink
Many years ago , when working on any house project, for entertainment I would listen to radio preachers. Loved Reverend Ike and
his " Love of money is not the root of all evil, lack of money is. " LOL

Now i laugh at Russ and the other nut jobs. Love it when some republican get caught up in a scandal and their only response is " The media would cover it up if he was a Democrat " LOL


Seems like you need to run for the Republican Presidency to get a job in radio nowadays. Mike Huckabee and Herman Cain being the latest. And the host telling the chumps to invest in GOLD COINS. Yeah, at a 35% markup LOL
Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet
reno
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April 11th, 2013 at 3:28:24 PM permalink
This article crunches the numbers, and the numbers don't look good for the GOP. The whole article is worth reading (or arguing) but these 2 paragraphs really stand out:

"It was frequently observed that a Romney victory would have required a historic performance among white voters, provided that Obama could match his ’08 performance among non-white voters. Bush’s 2004 performance among white voters wouldn’t get it done anymore. In 2016, the math gets even more challenging. If the white share of the electorate declines further, Republicans won’t just need to match their best performance of the last 24 years among white voters, they’ll also need to match their best performance of the last 24 years among non-white voters. If they can’t make the requisite 16-point gain among non-white voters—a tall order, to say the least—then the next Republican candidate will enter truly uncharted territory, potentially needing to win up to 64 percent of the white vote just to break 50 percent of the popular vote.

The Electoral College makes the GOP’s task even more difficult. Although Obama only won the popular vote by a modest 3.9 points, he carried the tipping-point states of Colorado and Pennsylvania by more substantial 5.4 point margins. In both states, as well as somewhat more conservative Virginia, the GOP’s chances hinge on their ability to improve in the affluent, diverse, and well-educated suburbs around Denver, Philadelphia, and Washington. The alternative—even larger gains in the white, working-class Upper Midwest—could be trumped by a Democratic sweep of Colorado, Pennsylvania, and Virginia. And although much of the GOP’s energy has focused on improving their standing among Hispanic voters, even a huge, 20-point swing among Latinos wouldn’t flip any of these states."
boymimbo
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April 11th, 2013 at 6:29:08 PM permalink
The GOP needs to moderate and stop looking like extremists dolts. Most people in the US are moderates whose positions lay between the hardcore party positions.

You can call Obama ultra-left. On a military side, he's not. He killed Osama. He's got a strong military program utilizing technology (drones). Economically, he inherited a disaster and with a congress and senate who will filibuster any democratic bill, nothing gets done. From a foreign policy side besides the Bengazi fuck-up, he's done well. Economically, he's sucked.

Democrats are better in reaching out to the centre because their ideals agree with the most popular. More than 50% of Americans support gay marriage (58%). more than 50% (54%) of Americans support abortions. More than 50% of Americans support more gun control vs less. None of these positions are Republican positions. Even on the economy, the idea of taxing the rich to raise revenue has more than 50% of American support. Half of Americans support some form of nationalized health care.

So, for the Republican party to remain relevant, they have to let the ships sail on gay marriage, abortion, and gun control. The central message of the party (and Fox News) should be about things that matter to most Americans - the economy. A thoughtful platform on the economy will sway some Dems to the Republican side. And comprimise.
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
AZDuffman
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April 11th, 2013 at 6:38:34 PM permalink
Quote: boymimbo



So, for the Republican party to remain relevant, they have to let the ships sail on gay marriage, abortion, and gun control. The central message of the party (and Fox News) should be about things that matter to most Americans - the economy. A thoughtful platform on the economy will sway some Dems to the Republican side. And comprimise.



NONSENSE! What you are saying is, "The GOP just needs to become Democrats!"

As Democrat ideas collapse under their own weight, and some already are, the GOP needs to be there showing that smaller government and a less free-for-all social agenda than the Democrats have pushed is the answer.

As to compromise, the Democrats never do, why should the GOP?
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
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