s2dbaker
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April 11th, 2013 at 8:35:04 PM permalink
Az and I agree on something again. Twice in one week!! I don't think the GOP needs to reach out at all. They're doing fine with their message as-is.
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Beethoven9th
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April 11th, 2013 at 9:56:35 PM permalink
Quote: boymimbo

So, for the Republican party to remain relevant, they have to let the ships sail on gay marriage, abortion, and gun control. The central message of the party (and Fox News) should be about things that matter to most Americans - the economy.


If that's such great advice, then Mitt Romney (who didn't run on any of those 3 issues) would be president today. Guess what he did run on though? The ECONOMY. And he still lost.

No thank you...we appreciate the good intentions, but we don't need two ultra-liberal parties in America.
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boymimbo
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April 11th, 2013 at 10:03:49 PM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

NONSENSE! What you are saying is, "The GOP just needs to become Democrats!"

As Democrat ideas collapse under their own weight, and some already are, the GOP needs to be there showing that smaller government and a less free-for-all social agenda than the Democrats have pushed is the answer.

As to compromise, the Democrats never do, why should the GOP?



Point, set, match. Who won the last two elections?
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rdw4potus
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April 12th, 2013 at 7:18:39 AM permalink
Quote: Beethoven9th


we don't need two ultra-liberal parties in America.



True, but two competitive parties would be really nice. So if the GOP could stop intentionally pissing off everyone but the far right, that would be great...
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onenickelmiracle
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April 12th, 2013 at 11:44:56 AM permalink
Personally I really do believe the Republican party is incapable of reaching out. They are absolute and basically rely on giving out goodies of no abortions ever and no gay marriages ever, probably one of the few times they bounce checks.

On a national level, don't have a candidate for president with skeletons at all. Only this way can a Republican attack and win ever again.
Romney didn't want it enough to make his taxes public like his father did. His IRA was a big issue for those whom were aware of it being worth 20-100 million depending on market fluctuation.
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Beethoven9th
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April 12th, 2013 at 12:51:37 PM permalink
Quote: rdw4potus

True, but two competitive parties would be really nice.


If "competitive" = "more like Democrats", then no thanks. That strategy wouldn't work anyway. For example, take a look at California. Republican candidates there are often pro-abortion, pro-gay marriage, and pro-gun control.....but guess what? They STILL lose.


Quote: onenickelmiracle

Romney didn't want it enough to make his taxes public like his father did.


Not sure which election you're referring to, but Romney did disclose his financial records. They just didn't go back umpteen years like liberals were clamoring for. (FWIW, Bill Clinton STILL hasn't released his medical records)
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Ahigh
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April 17th, 2013 at 7:13:41 PM permalink
Quote: onenickelmiracle

Personally I really do believe the Republican party is incapable of reaching out.



Incapable of "reaching out?" How do you arrive at this conclusion?
aahigh.com
onenickelmiracle
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April 17th, 2013 at 7:30:15 PM permalink
Quote: Ahigh

Incapable of "reaching out?" How do you arrive at this conclusion?


They cater to a few and always will. If they proposed plans benefitting the public good, they would be committing suicide. They will be the minority party for decades until they are no more.
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RonC
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April 17th, 2013 at 7:38:18 PM permalink
Quote: onenickelmiracle

If they proposed plans benefiting the public good



So only the Democrats do things for the public good? Do the Republicans have a secret meeting to decide how to do only things that are not good for the public? Huh. I thought both sides, even with some lost in the weeds on either side, really wanted the country to be successful but have different ideas on how to get/stay there.
reno
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April 17th, 2013 at 8:33:53 PM permalink
Quote: s2dbaker

I don't think the GOP needs to reach out at all.



You're right. But I have mixed feelings about this, s2dbaker. On the one hand, it's amusing to watch the GOP become so inept at courting women, Hispanics, Asians, African-Americans, and anyone under the age of 30. The Democrats have a monopoly on these votes. The GOP needs to chip away at this monopoly and force the Democrats to work for those votes. But the GOP is too arrogant and stubborn to recognize the problem.

On the other hand, the GOP's incompetence is bad for our democracy. We need two parties. If the GOP can't win national elections because they piss off 60 percent of the electorate, it allows the Democrats to win elections with no sweat. If the trend continues, the Democrats will get lazy, complacent, and ultimately corrupt.
Beethoven9th
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April 17th, 2013 at 8:54:11 PM permalink
Quote: RonC

So only the Democrats do things for the public good? Do the Republicans have a secret meeting to decide how to do only things that are not good for the public? Huh. I thought both sides, even with some lost in the weeds on either side, really wanted the country to be successful but have different ideas on how to get/stay there.


+1

I find it ironic that the people who are most vocal about the GOP "reaching out" are liberal Democrats who would never vote Republican even if the party did make the suggested changes.
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thecesspit
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April 17th, 2013 at 9:30:55 PM permalink
Quote: Beethoven9th

+1

I find it ironic that the people who are most vocal about the GOP "reaching out" are liberal Democrats who would never vote Republican even if the party did make the suggested changes.



I find it also ironic that people who criticize the Republicans as being 'always' like that forget their long history. Certainly outside the US, I'd wager at that Joe Bloggs on street doesn't know that Lincoln was a Republican...

And those who accuse the democrats of being 'liberals' (as in some sort of dirty word) forget that the Republicans were the classical liberal party (and I'd guess many in the party are classical, laissez-faire liberalists).
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boymimbo
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April 18th, 2013 at 4:54:31 AM permalink
Quote: reno

You're right. But I have mixed feelings about this, s2dbaker. On the one hand, it's amusing to watch the GOP become so inept at courting women, Hispanics, Asians, African-Americans, and anyone under the age of 30. The Democrats have a monopoly on these votes. The GOP needs to chip away at this monopoly and force the Democrats to work for those votes. But the GOP is too arrogant and stubborn to recognize the problem.

On the other hand, the GOP's incompetence is bad for our democracy. We need two parties. If the GOP can't win national elections because they piss off 60 percent of the electorate, it allows the Democrats to win elections with no sweat. If the trend continues, the Democrats will get lazy, complacent, and ultimately corrupt.



Exactly. And for the GOP to capture more votes, they need to change policy, and only slightly. It might be in immigration. But I think it should probably be in the area of women's rights. The ship on legal abortion in America should have sailed, and what you have instead are individual states making it more difficult to have them. Alot of people feel that abortion is murder (I am one of them, what?) but it's enough of a polarizing factor to keep women from voting for the GOP when they might believe in many of the other things they stand for.

Abortion shouldn't even be on the radar in the election, but enough states with their stupid laws attempting to ban or harass people who have abortions made this a factor in the general election. Gay marriage will be another one of those issues in about 8 - 12 years.

Of course, what it probably needs the most is a polarizing leader. You have to admit that it was a feat for America to elect a black president -- that's how good he was at speaking and exciting his base.

The Republicans need a similar shot - a woman! And I'm not talking about Dustin Hoffman dressed up with makeup on. Perhaps a governor with a good economic record with positive immigration, like Susana Martinez.
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SOOPOO
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April 18th, 2013 at 5:45:43 AM permalink
I vote Republican, but am extremely pessimistic at the GOP's future. The 47% comment, which helped seal Romney's fate, was true, of course. There are just too many Americans who are on the public dole in some fashion to give the Republicans a chance. Add the gay vote, and those who vote solely on a candidate's stand on abortion, and the picture is even more dismal for the GOP.
Beethoven9th
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April 18th, 2013 at 6:40:48 AM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

I vote Republican, but am extremely pessimistic at the GOP's future. The 47% comment, which helped seal Romney's fate, was true, of course. There are just too many Americans who are on the public dole in some fashion to give the Republicans a chance. Add the gay vote, and those who vote solely on a candidate's stand on abortion, and the picture is even more dismal for the GOP.


+1

You summed up the GOP's predicament perfectly. The abortion & gay marriage issues could very well facilitate the demise of the party since there is a sizable chunk of the electorate (myself included) who simply won't give up each and every one of their positions just because the other side wants them to. And when you factor in all of the Hollywood celebrities and biased media, I honestly don't see how a Republican presidential candidate could ever win office again. (OTOH, for all the liberals out there, this is great news to hear!)
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reno
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April 18th, 2013 at 8:37:28 AM permalink
Quote: Beethoven9th

The abortion & gay marriage issues could very well facilitate the demise of the party since there is a sizable chunk of the electorate (myself included) who simply won't give up each and every one of their positions just because the other side wants them to.





Whoever controls the White House gets to nominate the Supreme Court justices. If Hillary runs in 2016, she'll probably win. If she wins in 2016, she'll have the incumbent's advantage in 2020. (For the record, I may be a liberal but I'm not a fan of Hillary or her crook husband.)

Beethoven, which is more important to you: preventing lesbians from getting married or preventing the Clintons from nominating every Supreme Court justice between now and 2024? I respect the GOP's opposition to abortion, but for the life of me I can't figure out why the GOP is stubbornly willing to lose elections just to prevent Elton John from getting married.

For God's sake, re-think your priorities!
treetopbuddy
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April 18th, 2013 at 9:00:13 AM permalink
The GOP simply has to promise more free shit than the Dems are promising.........it's just that simple.
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Nareed
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April 18th, 2013 at 9:23:49 AM permalink
Quote: treetopbuddy

The GOP simply has to promise more free shit than the Dems are promising.........it's just that simple.



But the Democrats are more consistent.

The GOP does not favor free markets and it is allergic to liberty. With the Democrats it's the same thing. They just oppose or favor different issues. In principle, though, they are two sides of the same coin.
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treetopbuddy
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April 18th, 2013 at 10:33:31 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

But the Democrats are more consistent.

The GOP does not favor free markets and it is allergic to liberty. With the Democrats it's the same thing. They just oppose or favor different issues. In principle, though, they are two sides of the same coin.



Yes, the Dems are consistent in that one always knows where they will come down on issues. One thing both parties have in common is a severe case of Potomac Fever.
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AZDuffman
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April 18th, 2013 at 10:59:45 AM permalink
Quote: treetopbuddy

The GOP simply has to promise more free shit than the Dems are promising.........it's just that simple.



And play the race card somehow.
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Beethoven9th
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April 18th, 2013 at 1:07:47 PM permalink
Quote: reno

Beethoven, which is more important to you: preventing lesbians from getting married or preventing the Clintons from nominating every Supreme Court justice between now and 2024? I respect the GOP's opposition to abortion, but for the life of me I can't figure out why the GOP is stubbornly willing to lose elections just to prevent Elton John from getting married.


I don't understand why people keep perpetuating this myth that pro-gay marriage Republicans will somehow become a force in American politics. The evidence shows the exact opposite...even in liberal states. Just take a look at California. There are many Republican candidates there who support gay marriage (and abortion), but guess what? Liberal voters still refuse to support them, and they lose by double digits. I think critics of the GOP need to rethink their advice.
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Beethoven9th
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April 18th, 2013 at 1:11:17 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

But the Democrats are more consistent.

The GOP does not favor free markets and it is allergic to liberty. With the Democrats it's the same thing. They just oppose or favor different issues. In principle, though, they are two sides of the same coin.


You know, after years of hearing this criticism, I'm finally starting to believe it now. I guess both parties will take us down the toilet.
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reno
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April 18th, 2013 at 3:03:08 PM permalink
Quote: Beethoven9th

I don't understand why people keep perpetuating this myth that pro-gay marriage Republicans will somehow become a force in American politics.



It's not a myth if you break down the numbers by generation. Young Republicans view gay marriage differently than elderly Republicans. The older generation will eventually die out.




Quote: Beethoven9th

Just take a look at California. There are many Republican candidates there who support gay marriage (and abortion), but guess what? Liberal voters still refuse to support them, and they lose by double digits.



Arnold Schwarzenegger supports abortion rights and gay marriage. 2006 was a terrible year nationally for the Republican party, yet Schwarzenegger won re-election with 56.0% of the vote compared with 38.9% for Angelides, a margin of well over one million votes.
Beethoven9th
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April 18th, 2013 at 6:21:28 PM permalink
Quote: reno

It's not a myth if you break down the numbers by generation. Young Republicans view gay marriage differently than elderly Republicans. The older generation will eventually die out.


This doesn't disprove anything that I said. (Young Republicans, by definition, have only just started voting) As I stated earlier, election results over the years clearly show that the liberal voting bloc rejects pro-choice/pro-gay marriage Republicans.


Quote: reno

Arnold Schwarzenegger supports abortion rights and gay marriage. 2006 was a terrible year nationally for the Republican party, yet Schwarzenegger won re-election with 56.0% of the vote compared with 38.9% for Angelides, a margin of well over one million votes.


Arnold Schwarzenegger was an internationally-known superstar who had been making blockbuster movies for 2 decades. That is why he won, plain and simple. and it doesn't surprise me that Californians would vote for such a person. Trust me, if his name was 'John Smith', and he looked like one of us on WoV, then I can guarantee you he would have lost by double digits.
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98Clubs
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April 18th, 2013 at 6:53:53 PM permalink
Nice to see the gay-marriage stats... now show us with same break-down

A.) Abortion (at all) Y or N
B.) Death Penalty Y or N
Some people need to reimagine their thinking.
reno
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April 18th, 2013 at 7:05:31 PM permalink
Quote: Beethoven9th

Young Republicans, by definition, have only just started voting.



But look closely at the ABC News graph. In 2004, 60% of young Republicans opposed gay marriage. By 2013, 52% of young Republicans supported gay marriage! That’s an extraordinary shift of opinion in less than a decade.
Beethoven9th
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April 18th, 2013 at 7:14:49 PM permalink
Quote: reno

But look closely at the ABC News graph. In 2004, 60% of young Republicans opposed gay marriage. By 2013, 52% of young Republicans supported gay marriage! That’s an extraordinary shift of opinion in less than a decade.


Keep in mind, I'm not saying that your predictions for the future are wrong (neither of us knows what exactly will happen). All I'm saying is that pro-choice/pro-gay marriage Republicans have consistently lost elections, even in liberal states.
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rxwine
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April 18th, 2013 at 7:43:16 PM permalink
Quote: reno

But look closely at the ABC News graph. In 2004, 60% of young Republicans opposed gay marriage. By 2013, 52% of young Republicans supported gay marriage! That’s an extraordinary shift of opinion in less than a decade.



I'm guessing we've got a certain proportion of non religious** conservatives who were more uncomfortable with the idea of gays corrupting and converting heterosexuals or some other similar ideas. And maybe those have come around simply through familiarization, and perhaps the strange condition of having to condemn openly gay sons or daughters, who in the past mostly hid their sexuality.

I don't think hard line relgious conservatives are going to budge if their religion doesn't though. So, support, has it's limits. But maybe it's enough for legislative permanance.

** or very socially-moderate religious conservatives perhaps
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boymimbo
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April 18th, 2013 at 7:48:09 PM permalink
Quote: reno

Beethoven, which is more important to you: preventing lesbians from getting married or preventing the Clintons from nominating every Supreme Court justice between now and 2024? I respect the GOP's opposition to abortion, but for the life of me I can't figure out why the GOP is stubbornly willing to lose elections just to prevent Elton John from getting married.

For God's sake, re-think your priorities!



Elton John's a brit who married a Canadian.
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reno
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April 18th, 2013 at 9:04:17 PM permalink
Quote: rxwine

I don't think hard line relgious conservatives are going to budge if their religion doesn't though.



You're probably right. But this article argues that the Mormons are becoming more tolerant of homosexuality. I have no idea if this is true, but if it is true, it means that the Mormons are to the left of the Republicans on homosexuality.

In the map below, the pink and red colors illustrate Facebook users' support for gay marriage by county. Utah looks pink to me.

onenickelmiracle
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April 18th, 2013 at 10:26:42 PM permalink
I agree with the WWE style of politics. Can you not imagine McCain taking a dive picking Palin and dems fighting so hard on gun control if not to take a dive.
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reno
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April 19th, 2013 at 9:57:36 AM permalink
Quote: Beethoven9th

Arnold Schwarzenegger was an internationally-known superstar who had been making blockbuster movies for 2 decades. That is why he won, plain and simple. and it doesn't surprise me that Californians would vote for such a person. Trust me, if his name was 'John Smith', and he looked like one of us on WoV, then I can guarantee you he would have lost by double digits.



His name isn't John Smith, his name is Jerry Sanders, and he's not an internationally-known superstar who has been making blockbuster movies for 2 decades. In fact, he looks like one of us on WoV. He did not lose by double digits. He served 2 terms as the Republican mayor of San Diego. And he supports gay marriage.
reno
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April 23rd, 2013 at 7:45:44 PM permalink
Quote: Beethoven9th

I don't understand why people keep perpetuating this myth that pro-gay marriage Republicans will somehow become a force in American politics. The evidence shows the exact opposite...even in liberal states.



All five Republicans in the 38-member Rhode Island Senate – including Minority Leader Dennis Algiere of Westerly – plan to support the same-sex marriage bill. It marks the first unanimous backing from a partisan legislative caucus in the US for same-sex marriage.
Beethoven9th
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April 23rd, 2013 at 9:57:33 PM permalink
Quote: reno

His name isn't John Smith, his name is Jerry Sanders, and he's not an internationally-known superstar who has been making blockbuster movies for 2 decades. In fact, he looks like one of us on WoV. He did not lose by double digits. He served 2 terms as the Republican mayor of San Diego. And he supports gay marriage.


That still doesn't disprove what I said earlier, which is that past election results show that pro-choice, pro-gay marriage Republicans generally LOSE. So you've found one guy who goes against the grain. Whoopee. (For that matter, Sanders won his 1st term by opposing gay marriage and later changed his position as an incumbent. He did win re-election, but new Republican office seekers don't have the luxury of incumbency with a record to run on, so the dynamics are completely different.)

Anyway, I can name anti-abortion & anti-gay marriage Democrats who have also won races, but those few examples don't prove anything either.
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Beethoven9th
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April 23rd, 2013 at 10:00:31 PM permalink
Quote: reno

All five Republicans in the 38-member Rhode Island Senate...


So there are only FIVE Republicans in a 38-member chamber???? That's 13%. (I think you just proved my point about pro-choice, pro-gay marriage Republicans not "becoming a force in American politics")
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chickenman
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April 24th, 2013 at 5:25:02 AM permalink
It passed 7 - 4 in the Senate Judiciary Committee, with the lone Republican on the side of the majority. Legislation to put the vote before the people was defeated in the all dem committee - what are they afraid of? Of course they spent most of the last legislative session working on canging the official name of the state and voting calamari as the state food - this in the state with the secoind highest unemployment in the nation and a very unfriendly business climate. Not for nothing, but if these are the priorities there is no hope in the State of Hope.
AZDuffman
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April 24th, 2013 at 7:44:23 AM permalink
Quote: chickenman

It passed 7 - 4 in the Senate Judiciary Committee, with the lone Republican on the side of the majority. Legislation to put the vote before the people was defeated in the all dem committee - what are they afraid of? Of course they spent most of the last legislative session working on canging the official name of the state and voting calamari as the state food - this in the state with the secoind highest unemployment in the nation and a very unfriendly business climate. Not for nothing, but if these are the priorities there is no hope in the State of Hope.



Most state legislative bodies would be better off if they were only in session. 100 days a year or fewer. Pass a budget, confirm appointments, and do legislation only as needed. If you have time to pass bills about state foods and songs you are in session too long.
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reno
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April 24th, 2013 at 8:00:40 AM permalink
Quote: Beethoven9th

So there are only FIVE Republicans in a 38-member chamber???? That's 13%. (I think you just proved my point about pro-choice, pro-gay marriage Republicans not "becoming a force in American politics")



Keep moving those goal posts. I point out that the former Republican governor of California supports gay marriage and you tell me he doesn't count. I point out that the former Republican mayor of San Diego supports gay marriage and you tell me he doesn't count. I point out that every Republican Senator in the Rhode Island state Senate supports gay marriage and you tell me that they don't count.

Here's all I know: there's currently a trend among young Republicans under the age of 49, where a slim majority (52%) now support gay marriage, compared to 9 years ago, when just 37% of young Republicans supported gay marriage. There are many possible explanations for this. Perhaps the trend will continue, or perhaps the trend will reverse itself. Perhaps it's a fad. Perhaps the polls are flawed. Perhaps the liberal media has temporarily brainwashed 52% of Republicans under the age of 49. Perhaps young Republicans were honest with pollsters in 2004 and are now dishonest with pollsters in 2013.

But the most likely explanation... is that the world is changing and the older generation of Republicans are totally in denial.

thecesspit
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April 24th, 2013 at 8:14:52 AM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

Most state legislative bodies would be better off if they were only in session. 100 days a year or fewer. Pass a budget, confirm appointments, and do legislation only as needed. If you have time to pass bills about state foods and songs you are in session too long.



Amen.
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
AZDuffman
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April 24th, 2013 at 8:36:24 AM permalink
Quote: reno

Quote: Beethoven9th

So there are only FIVE Republicans in a 38-member chamber???? That's 13%. (I think you just proved my point about pro-choice, pro-gay marriage Republicans not "becoming a force in American politics")



Keep moving those goal posts. I point out that the former Republican governor of California supports gay marriage and you tell me he doesn't count. I point out that the former Republican mayor of San Diego supports gay marriage and you tell me he doesn't count. I point out that every Republican Senator in the Rhode Island state Senate supports gay marriage and you tell me that they don't count.

Here's all I know: there's currently a trend among young Republicans under the age of 49, where a slim majority (52%) now support gay marriage, compared to 9 years ago, when just 37% of young Republicans supported gay marriage. There are many possible explanations for this. Perhaps the trend will continue, or perhaps the trend will reverse itself. Perhaps it's a fad. Perhaps the polls are flawed. Perhaps the liberal media has temporarily brainwashed 52% of Republicans under the age of 49. Perhaps young Republicans were honest with pollsters in 2004 and are now dishonest with pollsters in 2013.

But the most likely explanation... is that the world is changing and the older generation of Republicans are totally in denial.



It isn't denial it is just a personal belief. I'm not changing my belief because it is a fad of some kind. 35 years of homophile indoctrination will sooner or later have an effect on the younger generation. Sadly.
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Beethoven9th
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April 24th, 2013 at 8:46:52 AM permalink
Quote: reno

Keep moving those goal posts. I point out that the former Republican governor of California supports gay marriage and you tell me he doesn't count. I point out that the former Republican mayor of San Diego supports gay marriage and you tell me he doesn't count. I point out that every Republican Senator in the Rhode Island state Senate supports gay marriage and you tell me that they don't count.


Keep ignoring the goal posts (and all of my previous posts). I point out that the overwhelming majority of pro-gay marriage Republicans in CA consistently lose elections, and you tell me that doesn't count. I point out that the former mayor of San Diego won that office opposing gay marriage, and you tell me that doesn't count. I tell you that pro-marriage Republicans can't make any headway into a whopping 87% of Rhode Island state senate districts, and you tell me that doesn't count.

Here's all I know: It's fine if you support gay marriage, but you shouldn't ignore the facts and claim that pro-gay marriage Republicans will automatically win elections because history shows that they don't.
Fighting BS one post at a time!
1arrowheaddr
1arrowheaddr
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April 24th, 2013 at 8:48:21 AM permalink
1. Pass some type of immigration reform. This will eliminate it as a top issue and allow Latinos to focus elsewhere, which will likely lead to Republican strengths, as Latinos tend to be more religious and family focused.

2. Don't be stupid. "Honest rape" "47 Percent" and similar comments are alienating and insulting. They cost the Republicans two seats in the Senate for sure and I believe it had a big impact on swing voters in Ohio, Florida and Colorado.
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
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April 24th, 2013 at 9:33:55 AM permalink
Quote: 1arrowheaddr

1. Pass some type of immigration reform. This will eliminate it as a top issue and allow Latinos to focus elsewhere, which will likely lead to Republican strengths, as Latinos tend to be more religious and family focused.

2. Don't be stupid. "Honest rape" "47 Percent" and similar comments are alienating and insulting. They cost the Republicans two seats in the Senate for sure and I believe it had a big impact on swing voters in Ohio, Florida and Colorado.



The rape comments were wrong but the 47% comment was true and less offensive than "you didn't build that."
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
1arrowheaddr
1arrowheaddr
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April 24th, 2013 at 9:48:26 AM permalink
I don't disagree, but Obama by 5 million votes despite that, perhaps he would have won by 7 million if he didn't make that comment.
AZDuffman
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April 24th, 2013 at 9:54:55 AM permalink
Quote: 1arrowheaddr

I don't disagree, but Obama by 5 million votes despite that, perhaps he would have won by 7 million if he didn't make that comment.



When you have most of the media parroting what you say and refusing to vet you it is hard to lose. If a republican were potus with this level of unemployment it would have been the lead story on every newscast at every chance for example.

Obama = favorite potus of 4 in 5 low information voters.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
Beethoven9th
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April 24th, 2013 at 10:00:54 AM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

When you have most of the media parroting what you say and refusing to vet you it is hard to lose.


That is so true. I honestly don't see how a Republican can ever win another national election. That person will have to overcome their opponent, the Hollywood community, and the MSM.
Fighting BS one post at a time!
1arrowheaddr
1arrowheaddr
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April 24th, 2013 at 10:03:11 AM permalink
Don't low information voters avoid the news? If you watched the news often enough to believe the "bias", wouldn't you then become at least a middle information voter?
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
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April 24th, 2013 at 12:09:14 PM permalink
Quote: 1arrowheaddr

Don't low information voters avoid the news? If you watched the news often enough to believe the "bias", wouldn't you then become at least a middle information voter?



They watch news but they limit heir sources and believe what they hear with no critical thinking. For example, low information voters:

Are the ones who heard Obamacare passes so the next day called the doctor of government to "get their free health care."

Act as if those who we supported in Afghanistan in the 80s turning against us was the first time such a thing happened

Think that America was just *loved* around the world before Bush took office and wonder why they don't with him gone

Know more contestants on American Idol than members of SCOTUS or Cabinent

Think there are 52 states, don't know New Mexico is a state, don't know AZ borders Mexico, think we live in a democracy, and are oblivious to a multitude of information one learns in high school.

Think the stock market is a casino and ExxonMobil had wheelbarrows of money delivered to the CEO office like magic three times a day.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
thecesspit
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April 24th, 2013 at 12:43:28 PM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

The rape comments were wrong but the 47% comment was true and less offensive than "you didn't build that."



The 47% comment might be true, but was badly phrased. It's not the 47% that is the problem. It's a portion of that 47%. In any welfare state system there will be some people who are net takers. The guy just laid off, or the vet too injured to work, and so forth. That's the point of a safety net. The problem is the safety net (as perceived by Romney and his supporters) is too large. By what percentage, I don't know and don't really care.

That should have been the focus. The 20%, say. Not the 47%. You lump too many people into one group with that comment. People don't like being lumped together. People are happy to lump -other- people together, for sure.

It was valid point, badly managed. Yeah, you can talk about media spin and all that jazz. The paranoia of the media bias always being the 'problem' for the Republicans to succeed again may be true, but it's a deflection. It's blaming someone else. Blaming someone else should not be part of the Republican ideology. Improve thyself, right? So live it. THAT, I think is where the Republicans can reach out. I'm not sure it's a winning proposition, mind. I do think it's true to the core of what the Republican party is meant to stand for:

You want an abortion, you pay for it, not the government.
You want health care, you manage your own, not the government.
You want a better job, we have no barriers stopping you improve and apply and be mobile.

Stop caring quite so much about what the other side is doing. Promote themselves positively, not the other side negatively. Promote an alternative. Not demote the status quo.

---

Gay marriage... one idea how to cut that knot... -personally- I think the state should recognise personal unions, that are exclusive between two people above the age of majority. That's it. If you want a Baptist marriage, the Baptists can decide what makes you eligible for their ceremonies. You want a registry office marriage in Idaho, idaho state law decides what that means. But in the eyes of the law, anyone is allowed a civil union, and that means the same for all, Christian, Atheist, Agnostic, etc.

That's the aside, possibly unworkable. But get the state out of the marriage game.
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
boymimbo
boymimbo
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April 24th, 2013 at 12:48:46 PM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

They watch news but they limit heir sources and believe what they hear with no critical thinking. For example, low information voters:

Are the ones who heard Obamacare passes so the next day called the doctor of government to "get their free health care."

Act as if those who we supported in Afghanistan in the 80s turning against us was the first time such a thing happened

Think that America was just *loved* around the world before Bush took office and wonder why they don't with him gone

Know more contestants on American Idol than members of SCOTUS or Cabinent

Think there are 52 states, don't know New Mexico is a state, don't know AZ borders Mexico, think we live in a democracy, and are oblivious to a multitude of information one learns in high school.

Think the stock market is a casino and ExxonMobil had wheelbarrows of money delivered to the CEO office like magic three times a day.



Geez, AZ, why don't you just come out and say it? Democrats are stupid morons and Rebublicans are soooo smart...
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
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