Republican vice president candidates
WH says Carter's biggest problem was that
he was a micro manager. He had to decide
every little detail, even down to who could
play on the WH tennis courts and what
china service to use at state dinners. That
was his downfall, he couldn't delegate authority.
People who know Obama says he has the
opposite problem. All he does is delegate
authority for everything, he rarely makes
decisions on anything. Like he did when he
was IL senator, just vote 'present' instead
of one way or the other. They say he's almost
totally disengaged from everything, his body
is there, his mind is elsewhere. He wants
to be president, he just doesn't want to do
the job of president. And his record shows it.
Quote: EvenBobEverybody who was on the inside of the Carter
WH says Carter's biggest problem was that
he was a micro manager. He had to decide
every little detail, even down to who could
play on the WH tennis courts and what
china service to use at state dinners. That
was his downfall, he couldn't delegate authority.
People who know Obama says he has the
opposite problem. All he does is delegate
authority for everything, he rarely makes
decisions on anything. Like he did when he
was IL senator, just vote 'present' instead
of one way or the other. They say he's almost
totally disengaged from everything, his body
is there, his mind is elsewhere. He wants
to be president, he just doesn't want to do
the job of president. And his record shows it.
I agree. But, they also say that Romney is a data-intensive micro-manager. Carter was a laughably bad president. Doesn't this suggest that Romney will have similar issues?
Quote: rdw4potusI agree. But, they also say that Romney is a data-intensive micro-manager. Carter was a laughably bad president. Doesn't this suggest that Romney will have similar issues?
Perhaps if he wasn't running to replace another laughably bad President, yes.
Both of them--Carter and Obama--had opportunities to soar due to the issues with the Presidency they replaced. I know that Carter "replaced" Ford, but it really was the tail end of the whole Nixon thing, and many continue to let us know how bad they feel President Bush did in office. Neither of them lived up to their promise when they got to the big stage.
Quote: RonCPerhaps if he wasn't running to replace another laughably bad President, yes.
Both of them--Carter and Obama--had opportunities to soar due to the issues with the Presidency they replaced. I know that Carter "replaced" Ford, but it really was the tail end of the whole Nixon thing, and many continue to let us know how bad they feel President Bush did in office. Neither of them lived up to their promise when they got to the big stage.
I agree that Carter and Obama are/were bad presidents. Those facts do nothing to disqualify Romney from also being a bad president.
Quote: rdw4potusI agree that Carter and Obama are/were bad presidents. Those facts do nothing to disqualify Romney from also being a bad president.
Correct...anyone we elect could end up being a bad President. It is just that both Carter and Obama had opportunities to soar based on who they replaced (and I don't think Bush was as bad as many say, but the general opinion was that he was not a good President) and both failed miserably.
We're rolling the dice with Romney and it could come up a "7"...
The problem is...we already know it will come up a "7" if Obama is re-elected!!
Quote: EvenBob
People who know Obama says he has the
opposite problem. All he does is delegate
authority for everything, he rarely makes
decisions on anything. Like he did when he
was IL senator, just vote 'present' instead
of one way or the other. They say he's almost
totally disengaged from everything, his body
is there, his mind is elsewhere. He wants
to be president, he just doesn't want to do
the job of president. And his record shows it.
Obama has what is called a "socializer" personality. Wants to be the center of attention; wants to meet and talk to lots of people; wants to get out and campaign. These people almost always make great salespeople but horrible managers. They have a fairly short attention span and tend to have just a few areas of focus. They never make good managers because when the time comes to balance your resources and plan things out they get bored. Instead they exel at speaking or sales because the gratification is very short term.
Their polar oppisite is the "thinker." The thinker hates or at least dislikes meeting and dealing with so many people; dislikes attention such as being photographed or even having "Happy Birthday" sung to them; and can balance a lot of tasks while seeing how each relates to the other. Thinkers see the big picture, though in doing so may drive other people crazy with the "what ifs" or commitment to seeing a project to the end when things are not going well because they are in it for the long term. Ryan is a thinker.
I have to agree what Obama likes is having everyone around fawn all over him.
Quote: RonC
We're rolling the dice with Romney and it could come up a "7"...
The problem is...we already know it will come up a "7" if Obama is re-elected!!
I agree with this but would clarify that with Obama it's a PSO.
Quote: s2dbakerSwing and a miss! Paul Ryan blames the closing of an auto plant in Janesville, Wisconsin on President Obama's energy policy. The plant closed during George W. Bush's presidency. I guess Ryan really is as smart as the last Republican Vice Presidential candidate.
Not good...but I do see reports on this in the media.
He'll make some gaffs and everyone can get a laugh out of it, but President Obama did sound like he was promising to keep the plant open when he was campaigning in 2008:
"I know that General Motors has been going through some bad news lately,” he said. With the conversion to more hybrid vehicles, G.M. can shape its own future. “I believe that if our government is there to support you and give you the assistance you need to re-tool and make this transition that this plant will be here for another 100 years.”
And that had the workers fired up. “I think he wants to make some changes that’s going to help the country, the environment, help General Motors. I want this plant to thrive even after I’m gone,” says Frank Hereford, a 37 year veteran at GM."
Ryan apparently also worked to try and keep the plant open.
Mistake? Yes, it was.
Everyone will have to decide how bad of one it was for themselves. He wrongly blamed Obama for this just as Obama has wrongly blamed Bush for all the ailments of the country during his term. Two wrongs don't make a right, but we do have to be aware of them!!
A gaff is when you tell the host country of the Olympics that they don't look ready for the games. What Ryan did was not a gaff, it was a gamble that no one would be doing any fact checking. He spun a yarn which included 'High School Buddies' and 'Obama's Energy Policy' when it was in fact Bush's energy policy. You say that Obama blames Bush for all the ailments, well in this case, if it was 'Energy Policy' that cost all those jobs then it actually was Bush's fault! Ryan lied. This wasn't a gaff. He planned on telling this story. Either he knew it was false or he should have known it was false. Which is it?Quote: RonCHe'll make some gaffs and everyone can get a laugh out of it
Quote: s2dbaker
Ryan has also been quoted saying he loves Rage Against the Machine (for those who don't know, they're a rap/rock band that focuses heavily on politics and human rights). Lead guitarist Tom Morello fired back saying that Ryan is the embodiment of the machine they've been raging against for the last two decades.
For some reason, this is seen as a big deal. It is absolutely amazing to me what sets people off. Some foam at the mouth over these things, and actually use the RAtM/Ryan thing as some sort of "proof" of...something? As someone who loves it when people prove they're batshit crazy, this is my favorite time of year.
Quote: RonCQuote: s2dbakerSwing and a miss! Paul Ryan blames the closing of an auto plant in Janesville, Wisconsin on President Obama's energy policy. The plant closed during George W. Bush's presidency. I guess Ryan really is as smart as the last Republican Vice Presidential candidate.
Not good...but I do see reports on this in the media.
He'll make some gaffs and everyone can get a laugh out of it, but President Obama did sound like he was promising to keep the plant open when he was campaigning in 2008:
"I know that General Motors has been going through some bad news lately,” he said. With the conversion to more hybrid vehicles, G.M. can shape its own future. “I believe that if our government is there to support you and give you the assistance you need to re-tool and make this transition that this plant will be here for another 100 years.”
And that had the workers fired up. “I think he wants to make some changes that’s going to help the country, the environment, help General Motors. I want this plant to thrive even after I’m gone,” says Frank Hereford, a 37 year veteran at GM."
Ryan apparently also worked to try and keep the plant open.
Mistake? Yes, it was.
Everyone will have to decide how bad of one it was for themselves. He wrongly blamed Obama for this just as Obama has wrongly blamed Bush for all the ailments of the country during his term. Two wrongs don't make a right, but we do have to be aware of them!!
Isn't Ryan FROM Janesville, WI? It'd be one thing if it was some small town across the state - Superior or Ashland or Rice Lake or something. It'd even be OK if it was a city within his district but outside of his "turf" like Kenosha or Racine. This is pretty bad. I'd put it right up there on the "oh-f*ck-o-meter" with Obama's 57 states moment or anything Joe Biden has ever said.
Quote: FaceQuote: s2dbaker
Ryan has also been quoted saying he loves Rage Against the Machine (for those who don't know, they're a rap/rock band that focuses heavily on politics and human rights). Lead guitarist Tom Morello fired back saying that Ryan is the embodiment of the machine they've been raging against for the last two decades.
For some reason, this is seen as a big deal. It is absolutely amazing to me what sets people off. Some foam at the mouth over these things, and actually use the RAtM/Ryan thing as some sort of "proof" of...something? As someone who loves it when people prove they're batshit crazy, this is my favorite time of year.
I'm a fan. I'm also a khakis and polo guy. You should see what happens when I go to concerts:-)
Quote: rdw4potusQuote: RonCQuote: s2dbakerSwing and a miss! Paul Ryan blames the closing of an auto plant in Janesville, Wisconsin on President Obama's energy policy. The plant closed during George W. Bush's presidency. I guess Ryan really is as smart as the last Republican Vice Presidential candidate.
Not good...but I do see reports on this in the media.
He'll make some gaffs and everyone can get a laugh out of it, but President Obama did sound like he was promising to keep the plant open when he was campaigning in 2008:
"I know that General Motors has been going through some bad news lately,” he said. With the conversion to more hybrid vehicles, G.M. can shape its own future. “I believe that if our government is there to support you and give you the assistance you need to re-tool and make this transition that this plant will be here for another 100 years.”
And that had the workers fired up. “I think he wants to make some changes that’s going to help the country, the environment, help General Motors. I want this plant to thrive even after I’m gone,” says Frank Hereford, a 37 year veteran at GM."
Ryan apparently also worked to try and keep the plant open.
Mistake? Yes, it was.
Everyone will have to decide how bad of one it was for themselves. He wrongly blamed Obama for this just as Obama has wrongly blamed Bush for all the ailments of the country during his term. Two wrongs don't make a right, but we do have to be aware of them!!
Isn't Ryan FROM Janesville, WI? It'd be one thing if it was some small town across the state - Superior or Ashland or Rice Lake or something. It'd even be OK if it was a city within his district but outside of his "turf" like Kenosha or Racine. This is pretty bad. I'd put it right up there on the "oh-f*ck-o-meter" with Obama's 57 states moment or anything Joe Biden has ever said.
I said it was a mistake. If he makes a bunch of them, it'll be trouble. Make no mistake about that.
Quote: RonC
If he makes a bunch of them, it'll be trouble. Make no mistake about that.
I suppose you don't really have to play like the Globetrotters to beat the Washington Generals.
Quote: s2dbakerA gaff is when you tell the host country of the Olympics that they don't look ready for the games.
No, that is a valid comment. Perhaps it could have been better worded, say, "You always think you are ready until things start!" but having run the SLC Olypmics he was just making a comment.
Quote:He spun a yarn which included 'High School Buddies' and 'Obama's Energy Policy' when it was in fact Bush's energy policy. You say that Obama blames Bush for all the ailments, well in this case, if it was 'Energy Policy' that cost all those jobs then it actually was Bush's fault! Ryan lied. This wasn't a gaff. He planned on telling this story. Either he knew it was false or he should have known it was false. Which is it?
I'm not sure what you are talking about here on energy policy. Obama has virtually halted oil leasing on federal lands, a big reverse from the Bush years. OTOH, Obama can't go 5 minutes without blaming Bush or somebody else for his failures.
For the record, examples of a "gaffe" would include:
Saying you had been to all 57 states
Insuating Romney wants to bring back slavery via "taking the chains off Wall Street"
Forgetting you are a Christian and saying you are a Muslim
Blaming the cop first just because the cop is white and the citizen is a minority
Being worried about finding "who's ass to kick" during an oil spill instead of figuring out how to stop the new oil flow
Telling people "you don't get to go to Vegas on the governmnet dime" while your own GSA throws wild parties with, government money!
And thinking Sarah Palin claimed she could see Russia from her house.
Quote: AZDuffman
I'm not sure what you are talking about here on energy policy. Obama has virtually halted oil leasing on federal lands, a big reverse from the Bush years. OTOH, Obama can't go 5 minutes without blaming Bush or somebody else for his failures.
Ryan directly blamed Obama's energy policy for closing a manufacturing plant in Janesville, WI. Janesville is in Ryan's district - in fact, it's his hometown. The plant was closed during Bush's second term.
Quote: AZDuffmanNo, that is a valid comment. Perhaps it could have been better worded, say, "You always think you are ready until things start!" but having run the SLC Olypmics he was just making a comment..
It's not a gaffe if Romney intended to be insulting. Then yes it wasn't a gaffe.
It easy to insult people who have been busting their ass and say something negative when you had shit all to do with it.
Quote: rxwineIt's not a gaffe if Romney intended to be insulting. Then yes it wasn't a gaffe.
It easy to insult people who have been busting their ass and say something negative when you had shit all to do with it.
Doesn't the timing make it a gaffe for sure? That's certainly not what you say the day before you meet with the Prime Minister of the country you just insulted on international television. Especially when the entire point of the trip is to prove that you're not a dumbass and that you're capable of talking to world leaders without screwing up.
Then also look at the response.
Quote:British Prime Minister David Cameron told reporters Thursday that obstacles are inevitable when such an event is held in a busy city rather than "the middle of nowhere,
The reponse to Romney was intended to be insulting. Therefore, though it was insulting, it was not a gaffe.
Quote: AZDuffmanAnd thinking Sarah Palin claimed she could see Russia from her house.
... and claimed that meant she had a good idea of foreign policy. Her answers to the pressure on that... were... interesting, to say the least. I can see the US (on a clear day) from my house. I'd be bloody useless at negotiating with the Americans on settling the boundary squabbles there is in this area. Mostly as I'd use the word "yanks" and "pig war" far too often :)
I think "gaffe" hunting is a daft, but easy tactic. Lets present the "what you'll do" not the weakness in your opposition.
Quote: thecesspit... and claimed that meant she had a good idea of foreign policy. Her answers to the pressure on that... were... interesting, to say the least. I can see the US (on a clear day) from my house. I'd be bloody useless at negotiating with the Americans on settling the boundary squabbles there is in this area. Mostly as I'd use the word "yanks" and "pig war" far too often :)
I think you missed the point, Sarah never said that.
But living in a border state does give you some sort of experience. Nobody questioned how being a state senator qualified you.
"They're our next-door neighbors, and you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska, from an island in Alaska":
Quote: thecesspitIndeed she didn't :
"They're our next-door neighbors, and you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska, from an island in Alaska":
Is here house on that island? No, it is not. You are confusing quotes of Tina Fey with Sarah.
She was making the point that AK borders Russia in that respect, and as such the govenor will have a certain amount of contact with their Russian counterparts. Same as the Govenor of NY will have to deal with Canada or TX with Mexico.
Stop using facts, it's unfair!Quote: rdw4potusRyan directly blamed Obama's energy policy for closing a manufacturing plant in Janesville, WI. Janesville is in Ryan's district - in fact, it's his hometown. The plant was closed during Bush's second term.
Quote: AZDuffmanQuote: thecesspitIndeed she didn't :
"They're our next-door neighbors, and you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska, from an island in Alaska":
Is her house on that island? No, it is not. You are confusing quotes of Tina Fey with Sarah.
She was making the point that AK borders Russia in that respect, and as such the govenor will have a certain amount of contact with their Russian counterparts. Same as the Govenor of NY will have to deal with Canada or TX with Mexico.
That's the direct quote from Palin right there...
Quote: rdw4potusQuote: AZDuffmanQuote: thecesspitIndeed she didn't :
"They're our next-door neighbors, and you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska, from an island in Alaska":
Is her house on that island? No, it is not. You are confusing quotes of Tina Fey with Sarah.
She was making the point that AK borders Russia in that respect, and as such the govenor will have a certain amount of contact with their Russian counterparts. Same as the Govenor of NY will have to deal with Canada or TX with Mexico.
That's the direct quote from Palin right there...
So where does it say she can see Russia from her house?
OTOH, Obama DID say he was in all 57 states, how was he qualified for foreign policy?
Quote: AZDuffman
OTOH, Obama DID say he was in all 57 states,
No no, he meant to say he had just used Heinz 57
on his hot dog.
Quote: AZDuffmanQuote: rdw4potusQuote: AZDuffmanQuote: thecesspitIndeed she didn't :
"They're our next-door neighbors, and you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska, from an island in Alaska":
Is her house on that island? No, it is not. You are confusing quotes of Tina Fey with Sarah.
That's the direct quote from Palin right there...
So where does it say she can see Russia from her house?
It doesn't. That's why the post you quoted starts with the phrase "Indeed she didn't" :-)
Here's the video of that moment. Like Sarah Palin didn't say that she could see Russia from her house, Obama did not say that he was in all 57 states. You hear him talk about being to all corners of the country with one state to go and excluding Alaska and Hawaii, it's quite clear that he meant 47 states. Obama certainly wasn't lying like Paul Ryan was about the Janesville, WI plant closing.Quote: AZDuffmanOTOH, Obama DID say he was in all 57 states, how was he qualified for foreign policy?
I refudiate your remark!
The same goes with Ryan. I would love for him to have an important role in government, but, alas, he is just running for vice-president. I don't care if he is in error on that one factory comment, his point is that Obama is bad for businesses, which the pro Obama people can debate. To get sidetracked on these two sentences instead of the differences in how they would govern does nobody any good. Unfortunately for people like me, the Democrats and their policies seem so bad, I virtually cannot vote for one, even if I think they are brighter, or harder working, or more experienced. And I am left with a Romney that I really don't like, but have to hope wins.
Quote: SOOPOOUnfortunately for people like me, the Democrats and their policies seem so bad, I virtually cannot vote for one, even if I think they are brighter, or harder working, or more experienced. And I am left with a Romney that I really don't like, but have to hope wins.
Is that pill easier to swallow when you live in a place where the outcome is not in doubt?
Actually, he didn't.Quote: EvenBobSure he did.
in 2008, Obama even admitted he made gaffs that
day. Playing a doctored video is meaningless.
His point is that Obama is bad for business and his example was a factory that closed during Bush's presidency. Let's be generous and say that Ryan really thought that the factory closed in 2009. He blamed the closing on energy policy. The energy policy that was in effect in 2008 was George W. Bush's. He just condemned the very policy that he supports. That's not fifty ..uh ..seven states, that's not "refudiate". It's no slip of the tongue. It's willful, thought out and planned. Like strapping a dog on top of your car for an interstate trip.Quote: SOOPOOThe same goes with Ryan. .. I don't care if he is in error on that one factory comment, his point is that Obama is bad for businesses..
I guess you didn't watch the clip. It's not doctored.Quote: EvenBobDude, I remember it, I heard the clip a dozen times
in 2008, Obama even admitted he made gaffs that
day. Playing a doctored video is meaningless.
Quote: s2dbakerI guess you didn't watch the clip. It's not doctored.
It doesn't say what he wants. It *must* be doctored!
a fact is true, isn't true? This is pure desperation, man.
Why is this so important to you, it was a gaff, who cares.
Gaff's are meaningless, its actions that count. Lets talk
about Obama's actions.
You keep bringing it up the 57 state thing like Obama meant it when he obviously didn't. You're the one who seems desperate to prove that Obama doesn't know how many states there are in the USA. You can believe what you want but the reality is cruel to your worldview.Quote: EvenBobLOL! You're trying to convice me somthing I know for
a fact is true, isn't true? This is pure desperation, man.
Why is this so important to you, it was a gaff, who cares.
Gaff's are meaningless, its actions that count. Lets talk
about Obama's actions.
Quote: s2dbakerHere's the video of that moment. Like Sarah Palin didn't say that she could see Russia from her house, Obama did not say that he was in all 57 states. You hear him talk about being to all corners of the country with one state to go and excluding Alaska and Hawaii, it's quite clear that he meant 47 states. Obama certainly wasn't lying like Paul Ryan was about the Janesville, WI plant closing.
I refudiate your remark!
The point is Obama says something so stupid and people keep claiming he is the smartest guy in the room while Tina Fey says something and people claim because of that Sarah Palin is a dunce.
So Ryan misspoke on his example. Obama has said he wants to bankrupt the coal industry. The premise is still correct.
bills would 'skyrocket' but it was a small price to pay
for clean air. Thats why he invested so heavily in
companies like Solyndra, he really believed we just
weren't trying hard enough. He believed the Left's
made up propaganda.
Quote: s2dbakerPaul Ryan knew that the plant closed under Bush. He lied to his audience willfully.
How do you know he did it on purpose? If these kind of things happen often, then we need to look at it as willful. I am willing to give all of them a few mistakes and gaffes. It doesn't really matter that President Obama said that he was in all 57 states; I'm sure that was not what he meant to say. Perhaps Ryan meant to tell this story using the part about Obama supposedly trying to keep it open or whatever...again, it was wrong and doing it more than once should draw further scrutiny.
President Obama promised us the most transparent Presidency in history. He lied. Are you willing to jump on him as much for that as you are for Ryan getting this wrong? It is okay to say when one lies...why don't we call both parties out for lies?
Quote: s2dbakerWhat Ryan did was not a gaff, it was a gamble that no one would be doing any fact checking.
In this media age, where partisans scrutinize every word, can you honestly say that you think he believed he could get away with it because there would be no fact checking?
You tell me. Ryan told the same lie last night despite being previously fact-checked on it. So is this lie actually convincing people or is the deception a symptom of some deeper undiagnosed mental problem?Quote: MonkeyMonkeyI don't normally get into political threads but some of the kool-aid imbibing remarks are simply breathtaking in their partisanship. This one in particular is simply incredible.
In this media age, where partisans scrutinize every word, can you honestly say that you think he believed he could get away with it because there would be no fact checking?
Quote: s2dbakerYou tell me.
Um... ok. Yes, you think he believed he could get away with it because there would be no fact checking.
Quote: s2dbaker
Ryan told the same lie last night despite being previously fact-checked on it. So is this lie actually convincing people or is the deception a symptom of some deeper undiagnosed mental problem?
I'm going to go with "I don't care." I'll leave the drooling and gibbering to those more qualified.
Quote: s2dbakerYou tell me. Ryan told the same lie last night despite being previously fact-checked on it. So is this lie actually convincing people or is the deception a symptom of some deeper undiagnosed mental problem?
That is simply NOT TRUE--he did make mention of the Janesville plant but he stated the issue in the correct order of events:
"President Barack Obama, came to office during an economic
crisis, as he has reminded us a time or two. Those are very
tough days. And any fair measure of his record has to take that
into account. My own state voted for President Obama. When he
talked about change, many people liked the sound of it.
Especially in Janesville where we were about to lose a major
factory. A lot of guys I went to high school with worked at
that G.M. plant. Right there at that plant, candidate Obama
said, ``I believe that if our government is there to support you,
this plant will be here for another 100 years.''
That's what he said in 2008. Well, as it turned out, that
plant didn't last another year. It is locked up and empty to
this day."
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/08/29/transcript-paul-ryan-speech-at-rnc/#ixzz2535NdvCB
"On February 13, 2008, Democratic Presidential Candidate Barack Obama stated, "This can be America’s future. I know that General Motors received some bad news yesterday, and I know how hard your Governor has fought to keep jobs in this plant. But I also know how much progress you’ve made – how many hybrids and fuel-efficient vehicles you’re churning out. And I believe that if our government is there to support you, and give you the assistance you need to re-tool and make this transition, that this plant will be here for another hundred years. The question is not whether a clean energy economy is in our future, it’s where it will thrive. I want it to thrive right here in the United States of America; right here in Wisconsin; and that’s the future I’ll fight for as your President."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janesville_GM_Assembly_Plant
Quote:
Ryan made sure to "complain about the so-called stimulus and bailouts while also lining up to make sure their districts were getting taken care of."
Despite his paeans to free markets, Ryan voted for $14 billion in emergency federal loans to help bail out the auto industry during the waning days of the George W. Bush administration.
Ryan was closely involved in a task force that helped craft two incentive packages with large state tax breaks for GM, and personally lobbied GM executives to accept the bids.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-ryan-gm-20120818,0,2365092.story
Quote: s2dbakerPaul Ryan knew that the plant closed under Bush. He lied to his audience willfully.
According to CNN the last vehicles produced at the plant were in 2009.
