Republican vice president candidates
Quote: s2dbakerYou tell me. Ryan told the same lie last night despite being previously fact-checked on it. So is this lie actually convincing people or is the deception a symptom of some deeper undiagnosed mental problem?
I don't recall you being so upset about people lying when they say, "Sarah Palin said she can see Russia from her house."
As another poster has stated, looks like the plant closed in 2009.
Don't believe your lying eyesQuote: DRichQuote: s2dbakerPaul Ryan knew that the plant closed under Bush. He lied to his audience willfully.
According to CNN the last vehicles produced at the plant were in 2009.
I don't recall being upset about this either. Please quote something where I say that I'm upset.Quote: AZDuffmanI don't recall you being so upset about people lying when they say, "Sarah Palin said she can see Russia from her house."
As another poster has stated, looks like the plant closed in 2009.
Quote: s2dbaker
Ok, so you believe that source. Let's have a look at this:
Same source, dated April 21, 2009, stating plant closing April 23, 2009
What that banner should say is "Last SUV" not "Last vehicle".
Good God this is boring, wouldn't you prefer to address the actual issues facing the nation?
Quote: s2dbakerI don't recall being upset about this either. Please quote something where I say that I'm upset.
Claiming someone lied twice in three sentences and then claiming he might have a mental problem sure sounds like an upset person to me.
Quote:You tell me. Ryan told the same lie last night despite being previously fact-checked on it. So is this lie actually convincing people or is the deception a symptom of some deeper undiagnosed mental problem?
Bin Laden is dead.
4 more years.
If nothing is better in 2016, then maybe the Republicans should get a shot.
People on here act like Obama has done all of these terrible things while he has been President.
Project much there Az? :)Quote: AZDuffmanClaiming someone lied twice in three sentences and then claiming he might have a mental problem sure sounds like an upset person to me.
Quote: s2dbakerProject much there Az? :)
Ok, so clearly you've visited the thread since I posted the news article that shows the plant closed in April 2009, will you be posting a response soon or will we wait another 10 days like last time?
Quote: FinsRuleEconomy is a little better than it was at the worst point of the recession.
Bin Laden is dead.
4 more years.
If nothing is better in 2016, then maybe the Republicans should get a shot.
People on here act like Obama has done all of these terrible things while he has been President.
Economy should be MUCH BETTER than at the worst of the recession. Under Reagan we had a harder fall but were positively booming in 2 years. And lets not forget, Reagan had to deal with double digit inflation and back then a 10% mortgage was considered a great rate.
Bin Laden is dead, well in 1992 Bush had just ejected Sadddam from Kuwait. Didn't help Bush, this will not help Obama.
4 more years of >8% unemployment?
Obama has been terrible as POTUS. Nothing but blaming others for his failures and attacking anyone with any ambition in life.
And I still cannot see why people "like him personally."
Like I said, don't believe your lying eyes. Clearly, that plant was going to close whether Obama was President or not. Blaming Obama for the plant closure is a bald faced lie. That's what Paul Ryan did.Quote: MonkeyMonkeyOk, so clearly you've visited the thread since I posted the news article that shows the plant closed in April 2009, will you be posting a response soon or will we wait another 10 days like last time?
Quote: FinsRuleEconomy is a little better than it was at the worst point of the recession.
That is not what he promised us..."a little better" is way short of what "hope" and "change" we were promised.
Quote: FinsRuleBin Laden is dead.
With anyone but possibly Ron Paul as President, this was just a matter of time. I wouldn't give too much credit on this one.
Quote: FinsRule4 more years.
I hope not, but all registered voters get the chance to help decide this!!
Quote: FinsRuleIf nothing is better in 2016, then maybe the Republicans should get a shot.
If he is re-elected and nothing gets better, it'd be hard to see any Democrat having a chance to stay in office or to win the Presidency.
Quote: FinsRulePeople on here act like Obama has done all of these terrible things while he has been President.
I just don't think he has been a effective President and that he has failed to accept responsibility as a leader. It has been nearly four years and what he said he would get done has not fixed the situation enough to warrant a second term, in my opinion. For you, it is enough.
It isn't about doing terrible things as much is it is about not being very good at the job. Some will obviously think some things that were done are terrible and I may agree...but the reason I don't want him to remain President is that he isn't a good one.
Quote: s2dbakerLike I said, don't believe your lying eyes.
Or yours, apparently.
Quote: s2dbakerClearly, that plant was going to close whether Obama was President or not.
Clearly? Is this the same "clearly" that AZ was referring to when he thought you to be "upset"? Because it sure looks like it from here.
Quote: s2dbakerBlaming Obama for the plant closure is a bald faced lie. That's what Paul Ryan did.
Ok, I'll take that as your answer to whether or not the issues are important to you. Thanks.
Quote: s2dbakerLike I said, don't believe your lying eyes. Clearly, that plant was going to close whether Obama was President or not. Blaming Obama for the plant closure is a bald faced lie. That's what Paul Ryan did.
His first statement, alluding to the plant closing decision being made while Obama was President, was not correct based on the timelines. You say it was a lie; I say it was a mistatement that has been corrected. Just like the President being in 57 states, Ryan was wrong.
The statement he made last night was correct and it was based on a statement attributed to Obama in 2008's campaign:
"And I believe that if our government is there to support you, and give you the assistance you need to re-tool and make this transition, that this plant will be here for another hundred years."
President Obama was trying to get their votes by saying he could fix it. He didn't. There could be a ton of reasons that it didn't get done, but it didn't get done. The misstatement has been corrected and stated in the proper order of events. What more do you want?
I mean, it's not really a problem, but it's hard to really judge his or really anyone's effectiveness except in times of crisis.
I just don't understand why the Republicans can't find someone better to lead the country... Maybe in 4 years that person will be found.
Quote: s2dbakerIt would be nice if the Republicans could find a way to nominate someone who isn't a child of extraordinary privilege.
Would you say the same about dems FDR and JFK?
Seriously, why do liberals have such a problem with successful people?
AZ, for the record, I don't think you speak for all republicans.
I have no problem with successful people. I don't even have problems with children of extraordinary privilege. However, I relate better to people who are not, because I am not.
Quote: RonCWith anyone but possibly Ron Paul as President, this was just a matter of time. I wouldn't give too much credit on this one.
Or McCain would have threatened his way into war with Iran by now, and bin Laden would still be runnin' around.
Can any of the Republican bashers please say "Obama did a good job, that's why we want him again"?
Quote: SOOPOO
Can any of the Republican bashers please say "Obama did a good job, that's why we want him again"?
Or just list 3 reasons Obama should stay in office.
And no, 'he's not a Republican' doesn't count as
a reason. It can't be to complete what he's done,
that will ruin us.
Quote: SOOPOOI am still waiting for the first Obama apologist to actually come out and say he was a good president. He lied, Ryan lied. Romney lied. Who cares... Obama is steering us down the path of fiscal insolvency. We have a better chance with ANY Republican. Ryan (not Romney) would make the tough choices.
Can any of the Republican bashers please say "Obama did a good job, that's why we want him again"?
I suppose my main concern is that if re-elected, there really hasn't been a change in strategy articulated- so the best case would seem to be a very slow recovery along the lines of what we've been experiencing, if you want to call it that. It seems likely that the Republicans will keep the House, so he wouldn't be able to just push through his agenda, even if you fully thought his policies were the right thing to do: they're just not going to get implemented. So we're left with the country doing its best to fix itself, but with such over-arching problems, I fear the worst. What can possibly occur under the current strategy where we'll wake up one day with a stellar jobs report? Or stellar progress on the debt? Now would Romney/Ryan do any better? You can believe one way or they other, and you may be able to make the case one way or the other- but you can't be 100% positive. But leaving aside people voting over particular social issues and just focusing on the economy, it seems reasonable that a different approach will likely be an improvement over the current approach.
.Quote: FinsRuleIt's funny that when one person says something, then it's all liberals that believe it.
AZ, for the record, I don't think you speak for all republicans.
I have no problem with successful people. I don't even have problems with children of extraordinary privilege. However, I relate better to people who are not, because I am not.
Who said "all?"
As to "relating," just because I relate to somebody does not think I think they would make the best leader. On the contrary, most people I relate to would be fairly poor leaders as they are like myself, people who mostly want to be left alone. I wouldn't have related to Steve Jobs. In fact he was a jerk in many ways. But he had vision and leadership ability.
A second-term President can stop campaigning for re-election and actually try to get something done while in office. I'm sick of the never-ending election cycle.
Quote: FarFromVegasactually try to get something done while in office.
Thats just what everybody is terrified of. He'll
get so much of his communist/socialist agenda
'done', that we as a country will be done.
Quote: EvenBobThats just what everybody is terrified of. He'll
get so much of his communist/socialist agenda
'done', that we as a country will be done.
Not likely with a Republic-controlled House. But he won't be campaigning, either.
the place. Dang racists..
Quote: FarFromVegasObama should be re-elected.
A second-term President can stop campaigning for re-election and actually try to get something done while in office. I'm sick of the never-ending election cycle.
He could have stopped campaigning in 2009 and tried to get things done. Instead he made cracks about Republicans wanting the keys back, and they "can go sit in the back of the bus!" You didn't hear Carter, Reagan, Bush41, or Bush 43 talk like that. Bill Clinton invented the "permanant campaign" and Obama seems to think it was key to Clinton's popularity and re-election success. It wasn't. Clinton was popular because the economy was good. He never got half the USA to vote for him. He had a weak challenger in Dole.
The GOP went down hard in 2008. A smart leader knows after that you go about your work, you do not continually rub your opposition's face in it every chance you get. But partisan hack that he is, Obama could not resist. Then when he lost supermajority status he was cluelsee about how to reach across the isle, never having had to do it at any level of his career.
Perhaps he thought the USA was a Parlimentary System?
Quote: FarFromVegasObama should be re-elected.
A second-term President can stop campaigning for re-election and actually try to get something done while in office. I'm sick of the never-ending election cycle.
Is that your position on all Presidents running for a second term?
1) Selection of competent Supreme Court justices. 2) Keep America safe from terrorists. 3) Fiscal responsibility. 4) Protect Medicare for my generation. 5) Protect a woman's right to choose. 6) Protect my right to marry the person I love.Quote: EvenBobOr just list 3 reasons Obama should stay in office.
And no, 'he's not a Republican' doesn't count as
a reason. It can't be to complete what he's done,
that will ruin us.
I could come up with more but you will never be convinced. Ever. So why am I bothering?
Here's a reason not to vote for the red side.
Quote: s2dbaker1) Selection of competent Supreme Court justices. 2) Keep America safe from terrorists. 3) Fiscal responsibility. 4) Protect Medicare for my generation. 5) Protect a woman's right to choose. 6) Protect my right to marry the person I love.
I could come up with more but you will never be convinced. Ever. So why am I bothering?
Here's a reason not to vote for the red side.
Now be fair- 1. Take out the word 'competent' and insert the phrase 'those that agree with my agenda'.
2. You can't be serious.
3. YOU REALLY CAN'T BE SERIOUS!!!!
4. I don't know how old you are, so hard to answer. If you are under 50, you may have a point. If over, any changes will not affect 'our generation'
5. Good reason.
6. Good reason.
Just help me out here, if I put a lie detector on you, you could actually say that the Obama/Biden would show more 'fiscal responsibility than Romney/Ryan?
You also really believe that the Democrats would do a better job of keeping America safe from terrorists?
Quote: s2dbaker1) Selection of competent Supreme Court justices.
You mean like the one who stated race is more important than qualification as to who should be promoted in the fire department?
Quote:2) Keep America safe from terrorists.
How? By claiming our troops were tourturing people on live TV?
Quote:3) Fiscal responsibility.
And trillion-dollar deficits does this just how? Refusing to cut any spending does this just how?
Quote:4) Protect Medicare for my generation.
So, Obama cutting $700 Billion from Medicare to fund Obamacare does this just how? Perhaps you should consider the Ryan plan in this regard, gives you choice while protecting the plan for those over 55.
Quote:5) Protect a woman's right to choose.
If you support a person who said it is OK to let a live-born baby die on the table after delivery by denying care because the intent was abortion then by all means, vote Obama. Because voting on such a bill was a strong enough reason for him not to vote "present" on that one.
Quote:6) Protect my right to marry the person I love.
Anyone can do this, just as long as they are both of legal age and of the oppisite sex. Other things are not a marrige.
Quote:I could come up with more but you will never be convinced. Ever. So why am I bothering?
When you get a chane do tell us about how Obama is the best POTUS an illegal alien ever had, plainly ignoring laws to let them stay. Or enfranchised the dead voter by oppopsing Voter ID laws so their choices can be heard. OPEC surely loves him what with his ban on new offshore drilling and refusal to lease federal lands for oil drilling. Then there are the people who lost billions in their investment in GM and Chrysler bonds so the UAW would not have to give up their pensions. But why drill for oil when you can throw money away on Solyndra and other unviable solar-energy projects. And lets see, why have states actually make tough choices on their budgets, just print up $800 billion, call it "stimulus," and worry how to pay for it.
Let me know if you need more reasons to vote for Obama, once you start thinking of them they come faster and faster!
1. He believes the rich should have to pay slightly more taxes than they do now.
2. He approved the mission that killed Bin Laden.
3. He got health care reform passed.
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Bonus - I like that we call the same town our home.
Quote: AZDuffmanWhen you get a chane do tell us about how Obama is the best POTUS an illegal alien ever had
This is an untruth.
Quote: FinsRule1. He believes the rich should have to pay slightly more taxes than they do now..
Why should the rich pay a higher tax rate than anyone else? Wouldn't it be more fair for everyone to pay the same % of their income? Do the rich use a higher % of services from the government? The rich he talks about--people that have tons of money that has already been taxed once (think Romney and Kerry, for example)--are not the ones that his higher tax rates would impact. They'd impact the not quite rich (those making a great salary but working their asses off to do so) much more than the ones he paints as the evil rich.
Quote: FinsRule2. He approved the mission that killed Bin Laden.
Yes, he did. What potential President would not have done so? Again, he gets credit for this, but it isn't a reason that makes him different from the other candidates that started this race (except Ron Paul).
Quote: FinsRule3. He got health care reform passed.
A monstrosity passed without his beloved "transparency" that will either make us poorer as a nation or will have to be fixed/repealed. Any law that you have to pass to see what's in it (per Nancy Pelosi) is not a good law. No matter who passes it!!
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Bonus - I like that we call the same town our home.
Chicago is a great town in a lot of ways...but I don't want any brand of politician from there as President!!
Quote: FinsRule
1. He believes the rich should have to pay slightly more taxes than they do now.
No, he believes they should have to pay on the order of 10-20% more than they do now. And why is raising someone else's taxes such a good idea to you? Seems to me wanting people already paying the vast majority already to pay more is a bit greedy and selfish on your and his part.
Quote:3. He got health care reform passed.
What is good about exploding the deficit and passing a bill most people do not like?
Quote: s2dbakerAt least Soopoo and I can honestly disagree about policy and practice and perhaps further the discussion but Az is talking about writhing bloody babies as if that's the liberal American Dream or something. You just can't have a productive discussion with a person like that.
It is a liberal dream. Liberal groups like NOW claim to be "pre-choice" not "pro-abortion" yet they want no restrictions on abortion at all, right up to aborting a baby with all but its head undelivered. Explain to me how that is not an "reasonanble restriction." And all I did was point out that Obama voted for a bill that prohibits the saving of a delivered baby, instead letting it die on the table. If you do not like that Obama voted for this then don't support him. If you "support him for supproting a woman's right to choose" then understnd that such a thing is what you are supporting.
Here is a telling example of how liberals view the world. Somehow the NRA, which supports a clearly enumerated right from the Constitution are clearly "gun nuts" and supporting violence, even though the vast majority of guns produced and gun owners never kill or commit violence. Yet support for abortion, "found" in the Constitution after 175 or so years via interpertation of and kills in 100% of the cases (except a few surviviors, as mentioned in the above bill) are fighting for "reproductive rights" or "a woman's right to choose."
I'm not for the most restrictive abortion bans. It is not a defining issue for me in most cases. But I do get tired of people denying they are pro-abortion. And I do get tired of the same people who say "the world won't end if there is gay marrige" acting as if the world will end if we do not have abortion-on-demand, and "free' if needed.
There's a lot of things that "most people do not like" That doesn't mean they are necessarily bad. And I don't know if in fact most people actually do not like it in the first place. The health care system was broke and needed reform. Hopefully this reform works and all Democrats and Republicans will be thrilled.
Quote: s2dbakerAt least Soopoo and I can honestly disagree about policy and practice and perhaps further the discussion but Az is talking about writhing bloody babies as if that's the liberal American Dream or something. You just can't have a productive discussion with a person like that.
Yeah, yet here I am responding.... It's Friday.
Quote: RonCIs that your position on all Presidents running for a second term?
Yes. I'm sick of the non-stop campaigns from people already in office.
We limit our Governor to one term. It limits the damage they can do, and if you want to continue their policies, elect a successor who will finish what they started.
Of course it is Az. Of course it is.Quote: AZDuffmanIt [writhing bloody babies] is a liberal dream.
Quote: FinsRule10-20% sounds like a lot more than it is. If someone makes 1 million a year and is taxed 30%, that's 300,000. 10% more would be $330,000, but that's only increasing their tax rate by 3%. Use that number instead. Obama wants the rich taxed at about 3% more tax rate than they are being taxed. Isn't that about right? I don't have a problem with that.
Why don't we control spending instead of raising anyone's taxes?
Quote: RonCWhy don't we control spending instead of raising anyone's taxes?
Okay--start cutting. Try it at home. Someone suggested cutting 10% of everything. So pay 90% of your mortgage and see how long the bank lets you stay in your house. Cut your utility use. Environmentalists have been begging you to do that for years. Stop eating in restaurants. Michelle Obama will be thrilled with you eating less fat and salt. Don't buy so much stuff. Stimulating the economy that way only helps the credit card lenders and Chinese factories. Fire your lawn service, even if it puts a small business out of business.
You'd make a great liberal! :P
Quote: FarFromVegasOkay--start cutting. Try it at home. Someone suggested cutting 10% of everything.
If I just took a 10% pay cut this would be a good idea.
Quote:So pay 90% of your mortgage and see how long the bank lets you stay in your house.
Not a valid example. Your mortgage is a debt obligation, not "spending." Though in an extreme case, downsizing your home could be the answer to a long-term income cut.
Quote:Fire your lawn service, even if it puts a small business out of business.
I don't know about you, but I don't know many people who hire a lawn service to put someone in business. They hire the service because they cannot cut it themselves (old, allergies, injured) or they want to do something more productive or enjoyable with their time, which is almost everybody else. If you get laid off or take a pay cut, you might reevaluate this decision.
FWIW, I do suggest cutting 10% of everything government spends. Many is the business who looked at projected revenue and said, "we are not going to make it, we need to cut costs and now! Tell every department then have to find 10% to cut." This means government workers need to take a pay cut. The library is open fewer hours. And yes, those on entitlements have to do with less--as they should since to raise taxes is to tell others to do with less.
When a private company does this, it tightens the place and performance is improved long-term. Sometimes they find they didn't need all the spending in the first place. Imagine!
Quote: RonCWhy don't we control spending instead of raising anyone's taxes?
Why don't we do both?
Quote: AZDuffmanoil when you can throw money away on Solyndra and other unviable solar-energy projects.!
Looking at Romney's site, he is obviously dumping all AGW claims and rejecting the current scientific consensus. Just another reason for me to reject Romney.
Quote: FinsRuleWhy don't we do both?
So, how much more in taxes do YOU want to pay?
Quote: AZDuffmanIf I just took a 10% pay cut this would be a good idea.
Not a valid example. Your mortgage is a debt obligation, not "spending." Though in an extreme case, downsizing your home could be the answer to a long-term income cut.
I don't know about you, but I don't know many people who hire a lawn service to put someone in business. They hire the service because they cannot cut it themselves (old, allergies, injured) or they want to do something more productive or enjoyable with their time, which is almost everybody else. If you get laid off or take a pay cut, you might reevaluate this decision.
FWIW, I do suggest cutting 10% of everything government spends. Many is the business who looked at projected revenue and said, "we are not going to make it, we need to cut costs and now! Tell every department then have to find 10% to cut." This means government workers need to take a pay cut. The library is open fewer hours. And yes, those on entitlements have to do with less--as they should since to raise taxes is to tell others to do with less.
When a private company does this, it tightens the place and performance is improved long-term. Sometimes they find they didn't need all the spending in the first place. Imagine!
Yes, but a lot of government spending IS debt obligation! And regardless of WHY you have a lawn service, it's money going to a small business. My dad is too old and we travel a lot so I had a service do both of our yards until it got too expensive, so now his neighbor cuts his every two weeks and I do ours myself and the small business lost its biggest customer.
My dad always says "no more government spending!" without considering that his Navy retirement, Tricare, Medicare, and Social Security money all come from the government. He blew his 401k on a failed business. I shudder to think what would happen if you gave him a voucher instead since his money-management skills suck for someone with an MBA.
It's funny-my taxes are 6 figures a year and I don't bitch about it because I live in a military area. I can see where the money goes.
