The biggest scam of all time!!!!!!!!!!!!!
When the federal government needs money, it (1)tax,(2),issue bonds (3) others... tariffs, fees etc...
Here is the scam. 1 Create a quasi private/government organization that has the protection of the government but without the restrictions of any government agency. They have their books hidden. Let’s call this something that sounds like a government agency (Federal Reserve). Can't call it what it really is, a private banks that screws all Americans out of their wealth.
2. Let the Federal Reserve create fiat money; money out of thin air.
3. Let the government borrow money from the Federal Reserve and charge them interest on money they created out of thin air. The government gives them the T bills and they give them money. This money is released via the Federal Reserve banks. All current US money is this fake money, fiat money. It is backed by nothing. Look on all bills and you will see the word Federal Reserve Note. Translation, banks print US money, not the US government. Why is USA allowing a private bank to create money used by all Americans and paying interest on this money?
4. Let all Americans be on the hook for this debt but hide how their wealth is stolen. Federal income tax has not been ratified as a constitutional amendments so it is illegal. Legality has never been an issue with crooks. So these crooked bankers steal money and use the Federal government as their bill collectors via taxes, and second use step 2 to create money out of thin air causing inflation. Your money is worth less and will become worthless.
Check out the link. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxCX_D5xVLM
Quote:"This is criminal behavior of the most vile sort," Attorney General Eric Holder said in a press conference following the arrests, estimating that one in three Americans have fallen for the scam since its inception in the 1970s. "By masquerading as a legitimate business, this illicit syndicate was able to prey on helpless citizens for decades....
Quote: AceCrAAckersThey have their books hidden. Let’s call this something that sounds like a government agency (Federal Reserve). Can't call it what it really is, a private banks that screws all Americans out of their wealth.
Yes, this has been known for almost a hundred years. The Fed was created by the
rich robber barons in the early 20th century to control the money in the US. They
were richer than the gov't and controlled the country.
Quote: AceCrAAckersWhere do US get its money? Where does money come from?
When the federal government needs money, it (1)tax,(2),issue bonds (3) others... tariffs, fees etc...
Here is the scam. 1 Create a quasi private/government organization that has the protection of the government but without the restrictions of any government agency. They have their books hidden. Let’s call this something that sounds like a government agency (Federal Reserve). Can't call it what it really is, a private banks that screws all Americans out of their wealth.
2. Let the Federal Reserve create fiat money; money out of thin air.
3. Let the government borrow money from the Federal Reserve and charge them interest on money they created out of thin air. The government gives them the T bills and they give them money. This money is released via the Federal Reserve banks. All current US money is this fake money, fiat money. It is backed by nothing. Look on all bills and you will see the word Federal Reserve Note. Translation, banks print US money, not the US government. Why is USA allowing a private bank to create money used by all Americans and paying interest on this money?
4. Let all Americans be on the hook for this debt but hide how their wealth is stolen. Federal income tax has not been ratified as a constitutional amendments so it is illegal. Legality has never been an issue with crooks. So these crooked bankers steal money and use the Federal government as their bill collectors via taxes, and second use step 2 to create money out of thin air causing inflation. Your money is worth less and will become worthless.
Check out the link. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxCX_D5xVLM
Please think of the other options. Would you prefer it if the US had a national bank? That'd be socialism, and it's also against the law. That's why the Fed is private. Would you prefer it if the books of a private bank (the Fed) were forced by the government to be public and scruitinized?
b) nor does having some features of socialism per se make it a bad thing (that sort of thinking means avoiding motorways as being a feature of the Nazi's)
c) course other countries don't have a public national bank, or have faded between it being private, national and publically owned at arms length
Quote: rdw4potusPlease think of the other options. Would you prefer it if the US had a national bank? That'd be socialism, and it's also against the law. That's why the Fed is private. Would you prefer it if the books of a private bank (the Fed) were forced by the government to be public and scruitinized?
If you call a tail a leg and leg a tail, how many tail does a dog have? I will put the answer on the bottom.
The Federal Reserve is a private bank with the protection of the government so it is a national bank. We are moving toward a socialism state and that is not where we want to be heading. The goverenment is by the people for the people. The government is us. Yes, I do not want to pay the Fed for money they create out of thin air and pay interest on it. Yes I do not want a socialism where few people own all the wealth and we are cattle. Yes, I want the books of the Fed open so we know who is getting the money. Yes I want to know who these bastards are that are ripping America off and send them to hell where they belong.
In banking money they do not have is called an asset and money they do have is a liablities. People who pay all they owe is called a deadbeat and if you just pay only the interest then you are the perfect customer.
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If you answered that a dog has 4 tails, you are an idiot. it doesn't matter what you call it, a dog only has one tail. Don't get hoodwinked by all this confusing jargons and over think what is obvious. The government borrows moeny from the Federal Reserve and they give money they do not own and gets interest on this money. I.e we are paying for this.
That is not socialism. That may be the net effect of some socialist revolutions, but don't call a tail, a leg.
You can easily argue that a society where few people own all the wealth and the rest are cattle is what you have right now, and it isn't socialism that always gets you there.
Are you in favor of the Federal Reserve? Are you in favor of a cartel that has a right to print fiat currency on behalf of USA and have US pay interest for the right to use it?
It is either yes or no. Third option is misdirect and say blah blah blah and talk circles with no point. just like all BS when they talk.
What societal and modern monetary system do you endorse? ... also you should invoke the Wesley Snipes defense when you avoid your taxes and go to jail, it worked great for him.
Quote: Scotty71The Fed is just continuing the job they inherited. Going off of the gold standard was likely a mistake but you cant put the toothpaste back into the tube. Short of going back on the gold standard all you can do is announce a finite amount of "credit" available every year.... rates will go up along with your taxes for the COLA adjustment that goes along with Soc Security, welfare and foodstamps. You might enjoy zerohedge.com as opposed to this site as you can listen to a bunch of people bitch about fiat currency gold conspiracies and the like.
What societal and modern monetary system do you endorse? ... also you should invoke the Wesley Snipes defense when you avoid your taxes and go to jail, it worked great for him.
Once again, we talk in circles about external issues and not the core issue. "The Fed is just continuing the job they inherited." This is BS!!!!. I can create money and only I can create fiat currency. Do you support this tryannical institution or do you want it slayed.
I support any currency that is backed by a tangible wealth be it gold, corn, or even cotton candy as long as we all understand what gives the currency its value.
Quote: EvenBobYes, this has been known for almost a hundred years. The Fed was created by the
rich robber barons in the early 20th century to control the money in the US. They
were richer than the gov't and controlled the country.
If I were a HS Economics teacher I would put this on the test:
"The US Dollar has lost 95% of its value since 1913, the same year the F______ R______ was created."
Quote: AceCrAAckersOnce again, we talk in circles about external issues and not the core issue. "The Fed is just continuing the job they inherited." This is BS!!!!. I can create money and only I can create fiat currency. Do you support this tryannical institution or do you want it slayed.
I support any currency that is backed by a tangible wealth be it gold, corn, or even cotton candy as long as we all understand what gives the currency its value.
I am not talking in circles all I am saying is you cant just flip a switch and unwind a monetary system that big, and you are the one talking in circles as the definition of wealth is subjective. So yes I support this Tyrannical institution. A majority of the problems we face are fiscal and not monetary problems.
If you are an American you should actually be happy about this as our trading partners are taking "shit" in return for finished goods. I have no problem paying taxes I have a problem with the wasteful spending of my tax dollars.
Why don't you propose a bullet point solution to dissolve the Fed and establish a backing for a new currency... or do you just like to bitch and sow fear?
Quote: Scotty71I am not talking in circles all I am saying is you cant just flip a switch and unwind a monetary system that big, and you are the one talking in circles as the definition of wealth is subjective. So yes I support this Tyrannical institution. A majority of the problems we face are fiscal and not monetary problems.
If you are an American you should actually be happy about this as our trading partners are taking "shit" in return for finished goods. I have no problem paying taxes I have a problem with the wasteful spending of my tax dollars.
Why don't you propose a bullet point solution to dissolve the Fed and establish a backing for a new currency... or do you just like to bitch and sow fear?
As I said before people talk only in circles. This is ONLY question that I have. Do you support the Federal Reserve which the government pays to get money and they make money out of thin air? Let us change the name of Federal Reserve by its function. We Screw You Bank. The government gave us the power to create money so that we can make it and charge the government interest on the money we create.
The Federal Reserve is neither federal or a reserve.
As for some solutions read The Creature from Jekyll Island. Once you do you will never see the world as you do now.
Quote: thecesspita) many countries have national banks and aren't socialist
b) nor does having some features of socialism per se make it a bad thing (that sort of thinking means avoiding motorways as being a feature of the Nazi's)
c) course other countries don't have a public national bank, or have faded between it being private, national and publically owned at arms length
a) my point is that nationalized financial institutions are an aspect of a socialist state. Of course, the causal relationship is that socialism causes nationalized financial institutions.
b) while I don't think that socialism is bad, I thought it was a fair bet that the OP does. I just wanted to point out that to him, the other options might be worse than the status quo that he was complaining about.
c) national banks make a lot of sense. But the US can't have one. It's illegal. That's why the Fed is private.
I shall endeavor to place my tongue more firmly into my cheek in future comments.
Some people want conspiracies but it is never quite that dark. I am familiar with the book. There were plenty of boom/busts/panics before the Fed was created. I hate bailing out bankers as much as I hate bailing out auto workers, people on disability, wounded veterans, old people, poor people, government employees, prisoners, politicians, spotted owls & oil companies. THE WHOLE SYSTEM IS FUCKED so start thinking about solutions rather than bitching.
Quote: AZDuffmanIf I were a HS Economics teacher I would put this on the test:
"The US Dollar has lost 95% of its value since 1913, the same year the F______ R______ was created."
Most of that loss came after Nixon took us off the gold standard, it has more to do with spending and a lot less to do with the FRB.
Quote: AceCrAAckersAs I said before people talk only in circles. This is ONLY question that I have. Do you support the Federal Reserve which the government pays to get money and they make money out of thin air? Let us change the name of Federal Reserve by its function. We Screw You Bank. The government gave us the power to create money so that we can make it and charge the government interest on the money we create.
The Federal Reserve is neither federal or a reserve.
As for some solutions read The Creature from Jekyll Island. Once you do you will never see the world as you do now.
I support the Screw You Bank.
Quote: Scotty71I answered the question. Yes, I support a federal reserve. I support Monetary reform and I think the issuance of credit should be finite to support a stronger dollar. I support the exchange of ideas but I don't support ideas or comments from people that have to think up names like "We Screw You Bank" or other dumb ass incendiary statements.
Some people want conspiracies but it is never quite that dark. I am familiar with the book. There were plenty of boom/busts/panics before the Fed was created. I hate bailing out bankers as much as I hate bailing out auto workers, people on disability, wounded veterans, old people, poor people, government employees, prisoners, politicians, spotted owls & oil companies. THE WHOLE SYSTEM IS FUCKED so start thinking about solutions rather than bitching.
Solution number one. Get rid of the Ferderal Reserve.
As for your answer of supporting Federal Reserve, you are in favor of letting Americans give money to international bankers for the use of money which is rightfully ours. Enough said from Scotty71. Anyone else think that a private bank should have power to create fiat currency and charge us, please feel to support Scotty71 and if you feel I am a loon for opposing it, so be it.
Read "Confessions of an Economic Hitman" if you haven't already...it'll twist your shit way more than Jekyll Island.
The NWO will try to destroy US economy so USA will have no choice but to join a world government. In order to do this it must get the government into greater and greater debt. So the federal government is growing to the point where all these people cannot possibly paid. The problem stems from the Federal Reserve. Spending is the side affect of the problem with the problem being Federal Reserve.
Look how twisted they are that you are referring to the Federal Reserve as the Fed. Casual people would not know the difference when you say the problem is the Fed, are you talking about the federal government or the Federal Reserve.
Quote: rdw4potusa) my point is that nationalized financial institutions are an aspect of a socialist state. Of course, the causal relationship is that socialism causes nationalized financial institutions.
b) while I don't think that socialism is bad, I thought it was a fair bet that the OP does. I just wanted to point out that to him, the other options might be worse than the status quo that he was complaining about.
c) national banks make a lot of sense. But the US can't have one. It's illegal. That's why the Fed is private.
I shall endeavor to place my tongue more firmly into my cheek in future comments.
My bad. As the OP seems to have only the vaguest idea what socialism is (apart from a boogyman), your point was lost on him, while it sailed right over my head... Sorry :)
A public, national bank being illegal in the US is interesting though... where did that come from?
Quote: AceCrAAckersWhere do US get its money? Where does money come from?
All current US money is this fake money, fiat money. It is backed by nothing. Look on all bills and you will see the word Federal Reserve Note. Translation, banks print US money, not the US government. Why is USA allowing a private bank to create money used by all Americans and paying interest on this money?
Every nation now prints fiat money. Of the three currencies that are circulating over a trillion dollars in currency (European Union, Japan, USA) the USA actually has the smallest amount issued of the three.
What are you proposing? A return to specie backed money?
Quote: pacomartinEvery nation now prints fiat money. Of the three currencies that are circulating over a trillion dollars in currency (European Union, Japan, USA) the USA actually has the smallest amount issued of the three.
What are you proposing? A return to specie backed money?
First replace federal reserve note with US greenbacks. Fiat currency printed by the government, not by a private banks.
2. Replace greenbacks gradually with currency based on silver.
3. Repeal the 16th amendment.
4. New law stating that never again will the government buy money from banks that create fiat money.
5. Tell these banks to go f**k themselves and not pay the debt.
Quote: AceCrAAckersWhere do US get its money? Where does money come from?
When the federal government needs money, it (1)tax,(2),issue bonds (3) others... tariffs, fees etc...
Here is the scam. 1 Create a quasi private/government organization that has the protection of the government but without the restrictions of any government agency. They have their books hidden. Let’s call this something that sounds like a government agency (Federal Reserve). Can't call it what it really is, a private banks that screws all Americans out of their wealth.
2. Let the Federal Reserve create fiat money; money out of thin air.
3. Let the government borrow money from the Federal Reserve and charge them interest on money they created out of thin air. The government gives them the T bills and they give them money. This money is released via the Federal Reserve banks. All current US money is this fake money, fiat money. It is backed by nothing. Look on all bills and you will see the word Federal Reserve Note. Translation, banks print US money, not the US government. Why is USA allowing a private bank to create money used by all Americans and paying interest on this money?
4. Let all Americans be on the hook for this debt but hide how their wealth is stolen. Federal income tax has not been ratified as a constitutional amendments so it is illegal. Legality has never been an issue with crooks. So these crooked bankers steal money and use the Federal government as their bill collectors via taxes, and second use step 2 to create money out of thin air causing inflation. Your money is worth less and will become worthless.
Check out the link. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxCX_D5xVLM
I tried to read but just couldn't....Cant take the nut jobs who want to end the federal reserve becasue they dont understand it.....Hey your tin foil hat is showing........Im sure you are gonna be one of the 3 people voting for Ron Paul? LOL
Quote: vert1276I tried to read but just couldn't....Cant take the nut jobs who want to end the federal reserve becasue they dont understand it.....Hey your tin foil hat is showing........Im sure you are gonna be one of the 3 people voting for Ron Paul? LOL
You couldn't read because you are illiterate.
You explain what the federal reserve is. Sorry, if you can't read you can't write either.
Quote: AceCrAAckersYou couldn't read because you are illiterate.
You explain what the federal reserve is. Sorry, if you can't read you can't write either.
Well first off, I have been an economist in the banking industry my whole adult career......And After WAMU(the bank I was working for) got bought out by Chase I interviewed for a Job at the Seattle Fed and almost worked there but turned it down to go work as an economist for a small private equity firm.......So lets just say I have forgot more about how banking and the Federal reserve works than you will ever know..... Lets start with you babbling OP shall we?
You say..."Let the government borrow money from the Federal Reserve and charge them interest on money they created out of thin air." Which is 100% incorrect....the US government NEVER borrows money for the Federal reserve.....When the Federal goverment needs money they sell bonds(US treasuries) they dont ask the Fed for it.....When the Federal reserve wants to increase the money supply(they do this for 2 reason to lower interest rates or for quantitative easing).....They tell the US treasury to print it for them(they pay a fee for this)...That money sits on the liability side of the Fed's balance sheet and is OWED to the treasury(interest free).....To offset this liability by law the Fed must go out into the SECONDARY market and by US treasuries to offset the liability(federal reserve notes)........They dont buy NEW US treasury bonds at a treasury auction....they buy them on the secondary market from investors willing to sell their T- notes or T- bills or T-bonds....So in NO WAY SHARPE OR FORM does the US federal goverment "borrow money" from the Federal Reserve....Now yes those Bonds the Federal reserve holds pay interest...which to some might seem unfair becasue the treasury in not charging the Federal reserve interest on the notes it printed for them.....But any excess interest that is not used to run the Federal reserve is returned to the Treasury.
lets move on to your next fallacy "It is backed by nothing"....This is simply not true as I stated above it is backed by US treasuries. Now there are some nut balls out there wow would rather see the notes backed by gold......they just really dont understand economics...Gold at the end of the day is just a shinny metal......it has no utility(other than dentistry and some electronics)...You cant eat gold...you cant drink it, or tell it to plow your field or water your crops...you cant drive it or build a shelter with it ect ect......Now US treasuries also have no utility....BUT....they are backed by the US goverment that has the ability to tax PURE utility....the goverment has the ability to tax labor, and ideas, and manufacturing and services and land and natural resource ect ect......giving a currency backed by Treasuries much more value than notes backed by a shinny metal with no utility
Lets move on to you next incorrect statement shall we? "Federal income tax has not been ratified as a constitutional amendments so it is illegal." I cant even believe you made this statement LMAO......Article I section VIII of the constitutions plus the 16th amendment gives the federal government the power to tax income...
PLEASE...if you have any questions about the Federal reserve and how it works come on here and post them and I will be glad to answer them for you....please dont go on youtube or some crackpots blog site and believe what those loons say....
2. Corporatocracy not banks run the system.
3. The Government will still overspend and print money at the behest of corporations.
4. A Delaware sized meteor of pure silver will hit earth and bring the global monetary system to a grinding halt.
Quote: vert1276Well first off, I have been an economist in the banking industry my whole adult career......And After WAMU(the bank I was working for) got bought out by Chase I interviewed for a Job at the Seattle Fed and almost worked there but turned it down to go work as an economist for a small private equity firm.......So lets just say I have forgot more about how banking and the Federal reserve works than you will ever know..... Lets start with you babbling OP shall we?
You say..."Let the government borrow money from the Federal Reserve and charge them interest on money they created out of thin air." Which is 100% incorrect....the US government NEVER borrows money for the Federal reserve.....When the Federal goverment needs money they sell bonds(US treasuries) they dont ask the Fed for it.....When the Federal reserve wants to increase the money supply(they do this for 2 reason to lower interest rates or for quantitative easing).....They tell the US treasury to print it for them(they pay a fee for this)...That money sits on the liability side of the Fed's balance sheet and is OWED to the treasury(interest free).....To offset this liability by law the Fed must go out into the SECONDARY market and by US treasuries to offset the liability(federal reserve notes)........They dont buy NEW US treasury bonds at a treasury auction....they buy them on the secondary market from investors willing to sell their T- notes or T- bills or T-bonds....So in NO WAY SHARPE OR FORM does the US federal goverment "borrow money" from the Federal Reserve....Now yes those Bonds the Federal reserve holds pay interest...which to some might seem unfair becasue the treasury in not charging the Federal reserve interest on the notes it printed for them.....But any excess interest that is not used to run the Federal reserve is returned to the Treasury.
lets move on to your next fallacy "It is backed by nothing"....This is simply not true as I stated above it is backed by US treasuries. Now there are some nut balls out there wow would rather see the notes backed by gold......they just really dont understand economics...Gold at the end of the day is just a shinny metal......it has no utility(other than dentistry and some electronics)...You cant eat gold...you cant drink it, or tell it to plow your field or water your crops...you cant drive it or build a shelter with it ect ect......Now US treasuries also have no utility....BUT....they are backed by the US goverment that has the ability to tax PURE utility....the goverment has the ability to tax labor, and ideas, and manufacturing and services and land and natural resource ect ect......giving a currency backed by Treasuries much more value than notes backed by a shinny metal with no utility
Lets move on to you next incorrect statement shall we? "Federal income tax has not been ratified as a constitutional amendments so it is illegal." I cant even believe you made this statement LMAO......Article I section VIII of the constitutions plus the 16th amendment gives the federal government the power to tax income...
PLEASE...if you have any questions about the Federal reserve and how it works come on here and post them and I will be glad to answer them for you....please dont go on youtube or some crackpots blog site and believe what those loons say....
Since we are talking about our background, my background is as a scientist. I look at facts only.
"When the Federal goverment needs money they sell bonds" As I stated this is one way the government raises fund.
"When the Federal reserve wants to increase the money supply....They tell the US treasury to print it for them" Once again, this is the Federak reserve creating money out of thin air.
"To offset this liability by law the Fed must go out into the SECONDARY market and by US treasuries " The Fed buy US treasuries with money they created out of thin air.
"Lastly the federal government pays interest on US treasuries held by the Fed" Yet these Federal Reserve books are not audited by the government.
SO we are in agreement with the facts since I am only using what you said. No matter how many layers you want to put between the Federal reserve creating fiat currency and the government paying for them with bonds, it all ends up with the government paying the Fed for money they created out of thin air.
Quote: AceCrAAckersSince we are talking about our background, my background is as a scientist. I look at facts only.
"When the Federal goverment needs money they sell bonds" As I stated this is one way the government raises fund.
"When the Federal reserve wants to increase the money supply....They tell the US treasury to print it for them" Once again, this is the Federak reserve creating money out of thin air.
"To offset this liability by law the Fed must go out into the SECONDARY market and by US treasuries " The Fed buy US treasuries with money they created out of thin air.
"Lastly the federal government pays interest on US treasuries held by the Fed" Yet these Federal Reserve books are not audited by the government.
SO we are in agreement with the facts since I am only using what you said. No matter how many layers you want to put between the Federal reserve creating fiat currency and the government paying for them with bonds, it all ends up with the government paying the Fed for money they created out of thin air.
it is NOT creating money out of "thin air" it is creating money backed by an asset......Prior to the Fed(1913) Banks printed their own notes....depositors deposited gold...the bank gave them a bank notes in exchange....was the Bank "creating money out of thin air"?...I get it you would rather have notes backed by gold rather than treasuries...IMO that doesn't make economic sense...but hey whatever floats your boat...but in either case money is not being "created out of thin air"
The Federal reserve is audited quarterly by the branch banks of the Federal reserve.....A private CPA firm on behalf of the Federal reserve.....They are also audited by the GAO(Government Accountability Office) they are also audited by the US treasury......What everyone is talking about them not be audited comes the CONGRESS wants the ability to audit them which IMO would be horrible idea...
Quote: MathExtremistI do this too. It's called trading on margin. I wouldn't consider that to be creating money out of thin air. I incur a debt obligation and get cash. I pay interest on that debt. Is it ok when I do it?
Banks do this also. It is called fractional-reserve banking. They lend money they do not have. There is a law that states that they must keep 10% in reserve. The rest, they lend out 9 times more than they have and it is legal.
When you do it and the market goes the wrong way you suffer. When the banks do it and they need to pay out, we all pay. FDIC. Also the big banks have what is known as we are too big to fail. BAILOUT.
Like in the movie Matrix, if you want to know what the world really is , read The Creature From Jekyll Island by G. Edward Griffin.
Quote: vert1276it is NOT creating money out of "thin air" it is creating money backed by an asset......Prior to the Fed(1913) Banks printed their own notes....depositors deposited gold...the bank gave them a bank notes in exchange....was the Bank "creating money out of thin air"?...I get it you would rather have notes backed by gold rather than treasuries...IMO that doesn't make economic sense...but hey whatever floats your boat...but in either case money is not being "created out of thin air"
The Federal reserve is audited quarterly by the branch banks of the Federal reserve.....A private CPA firm on behalf of the Federal reserve.....They are also audited by the GAO(Government Accountability Office) they are also audited by the US treasury......What everyone is talking about them not be audited comes the CONGRESS wants the ability to audit them which IMO would be horrible idea...
Once again I will use your word only to prove my point.
"it is NOT creating money out of "thin air" it is creating money backed by an asset......""I get it you would rather have notes backed by gold rather than treasuries..."
So the asset that this money is backed by is the treasuries..... the same treasuries that the government sells to get cash. I give you A and you give me B and B has value because I nowhave A as an asset.
"The Federal reserve is audited quarterly by the branch banks of the Federal reserve" Translation, I audit myself. Thanks for the clarification.
Quote: thecesspit
A public, national bank being illegal in the US is interesting though... where did that come from?
Warning: It's been about 10 years since I actually learned this, and the internet isn't helping refresh my memory. I might be wrong...
The First and Second Banks of the United States both failed in the early 19th century. The First Bank of the United States was not renewed by an Anti-Federalist President (I don't remember if it was Jefferson or Madison). Then the head of the Second Bank of the United States openly fought with Jackson during his Presidency. Jackson actually pulled the Government's money back out of the Second Bank of the United States, becoming the only President in the history of the United States to actually pay off the Country's entire debt. After Jackson's term, the Second Bank was dissolved, and there was no central banking system until after the Civil War.
By 1880, a group of large private banks had banded together to create a quasi national banking system. Then, after the turn of the century, there was a financial scare and a renewed call for a national bank. Democrats wanted a governmentally controlled bank, Republicans wanted an independent bank. An independent banking plan was drafted by someone who was very friendly with the big banks, and that plan had the backing of Congressional Republicans. The independent banking plan was DOA after Wilson became President and Democrats took control of Congress. Wilson modified the plan slightly, essentially creating an independent private bank that is subjected to limited governmental input. That compromise passed as the Federal Reserve Act.
Quote: MathExtremistTo anyone advocating a return to the gold standard, what is it that makes gold valuable?
1) It's desired for its own sake
2) It's rare and relatively expensive to produce and refine
3) While the supply fluctuates, it cannot be easily manipulated
4) It's hard to counterfeit effectively. Not too hard, but much harder than counterfeiting notes.
5) It's easily divisible and compact.
The same goes for other precious metals like silver and platinum, except those are easier to counterfeit.
BTW the most expensive commercially available element is tritium. But a gas is a poor choise for currency...
Quote: AceCrAAckers3. Let the government borrow money from the Federal Reserve and charge them interest on money they created out of thin air. The government gives them the T bills and they give them money. This money is released via the Federal Reserve banks. All current US money is this fake money, fiat money. It is backed by nothing. Look on all bills and you will see the word Federal Reserve Note. Translation, banks print US money, not the US government. Why is USA allowing a private bank to create money used by all Americans and paying interest on this money?
4. Let all Americans be on the hook for this debt but hide how their wealth is stolen. Federal income tax has not been ratified as a constitutional amendments so it is illegal.
Did you try running for the Senate in California in 2004? San Francisco's PBS station gave two minutes of free time to any candidate for the Senate or the House who wanted it (pretty much the only Senate candidate who didn't take it was the Republican one running against Boxer, which I use (along with the absolute lack of TV commercials) as part of my theory that the Republicans took the money they would have spent on this race and used it to support Bush in Ohio), and one of the Senate candidates was somebody whose entire platform was (a) replace Federal Reserve Notes with "United States Bank Notes" and (b) stop enforcing "the illegal 16th Amendment".
(By the way, enough states did ratify the 16th Amendment eventually so that, at one point, 3/4 of the states had ratified it even if you claim that "Ohio wasn't 'officially' a state when it ratified the amendment, so its ratification doesn't count.")
Quote: Nareed1) It's desired for its own sake
2) It's rare and relatively expensive to produce and refine
3) While the supply fluctuates, it cannot be easily manipulated
4) It's hard to counterfeit effectively. Not too hard, but much harder than counterfeiting notes.
5) It's easily divisible and compact.
The same goes for other precious metals like silver and platinum, except those are easier to counterfeit.
BTW the most expensive commercially available element is tritium. But a gas is a poor choise for currency...
Platinium and silver both have their uses : silver is very useful for it's anti-bacterial and anti-virus properties, while platinium is a very useful catalyst.
I suspect both have much more non-precious metal usages than gold.
Quote: AceCrAAckersOnce again I will use your word only to prove my point.
"it is NOT creating money out of "thin air" it is creating money backed by an asset......""I get it you would rather have notes backed by gold rather than treasuries..."
So the asset that this money is backed by is the treasuries..... the same treasuries that the government sells to get cash. I give you A and you give me B and B has value because I nowhave A as an asset.
"The Federal reserve is audited quarterly by the branch banks of the Federal reserve" Translation, I audit myself. Thanks for the clarification.
No they dont just audit themselves....I love how you conveniently left out that the GAO also audits them becasue that doesn't fit you argument..
As to you first point of "So the asset that this money is backed by is the treasuries..... the same treasuries that the government sells to get cash. I give you A and you give me B and B has value because I nowhave A as an asset.".......I get now, what you are just not understanding....you dont understand the concept of a bank note.......currency is not wealth.....it is a future promise for utility based on confidence....I think this is the concept you dont understand.....when you can wrap your head around this...I think you will understand
Quote: vert1276No they dont just audit themselves....I love how you conveniently left out that the GAO also audits them becasue that doesn't fit you argument..
As to you first point of "So the asset that this money is backed by is the treasuries..... the same treasuries that the government sells to get cash. I give you A and you give me B and B has value because I nowhave A as an asset.".......I get now, what you are just not understanding....you dont understand the concept of a bank note.......currency is not wealth.....it is a future promise for utility based on confidence....I think this is the concept you dont understand.....when you can wrap your head around this...I think you will understand
GAO, accounting firm XYZ.... it is all redundant. Enron, Madoff etc... all had private audits. How did that work out?
"currency is not wealth.....it is a future promise for utility based on confidence...." Translation, it fiat currency. Money that has no backing.
The concept that I cannot wrap my head around is why the government is paying a private banks for money they create out of thin air. Why is the Federal Reserve allowed to do this.
Quote: vert1276No they dont just audit themselves....I love how you conveniently left out that the GAO also audits them becasue that doesn't fit you argument..
As to you first point of "So the asset that this money is backed by is the treasuries..... the same treasuries that the government sells to get cash. I give you A and you give me B and B has value because I nowhave A as an asset.".......I get now, what you are just not understanding....you dont understand the concept of a bank note.......currency is not wealth.....it is a future promise for utility based on confidence....I think this is the concept you dont understand.....when you can wrap your head around this...I think you will understand
GAO, accounting firm XYZ.... it is all redundant. Enron, Madoff etc... all had private audits. How did that work out?
"currency is not wealth.....it is a future promise for utility based on confidence...." Translation, it fiat currency. Money that has no backing.
The concept that I cannot wrap my head around is why the government is paying a private banks for money they create out of thin air. Why is the Federal Reserve allowed to do this.
Quote: AceCrAAckers"currency is not wealth.....it is a future promise for utility based on confidence...." Translation, it fiat currency. Money that has no backing.
I fail to see why you think this concept is significant. Governments openly acknowledge that money is "fiat money", and is not backed by specie. For good or bad the world functions on this type of money, and it is not going to change now.
Japan is the owner of the only major world currency that has seriously trying to eliminate physical currency and replacing it with electronic currency. I think they will be the ones to do it first, given the relatively small world that the yen circulates in, compared to the dollar and the euro.
Quote: pacomartinI fail to see why you think this concept is significant. Governments openly acknowledge that money is "fiat money", and is not backed by specie. For good or bad the world functions on this type of money, and it is not going to change now.
Japan is the owner of the only major world currency that has seriously trying to eliminate physical currency and replacing it with electronic currency. I think they will be the ones to do it first, given the relatively small world that the yen circulates in, compared to the dollar and the euro.
Stop being distracted!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Stay focused. I am an evil bank that is allowed to print all the money for the USA. You want money you have to come to me. If I do it directly, it is too obvious so lets have several buffers and do some smoke and mirrors.
In the end I own you because you cannot pay back the interest. I conquered US without fighting a military fight but an economic fight.
Stay focused. Why are we allowing these bastards to do this to us, and when I mean these beast, I am talking about the Federal reserve and the powers that control them.
Stay focus, and don't talk about secondary bond market, fiat currency, fractional money, bills of credits, illuminati, fractional-reserve banking etc....
I only have one question, why is the Federal Reserve allowed to create money and charge the goverrnment interest to use this money?
Quote: AceCrAAckersGAO, accounting firm XYZ.... it is all redundant. Enron, Madoff etc... all had private audits. How did that work out?
"currency is not wealth.....it is a future promise for utility based on confidence...." Translation, it fiat currency. Money that has no backing.
The concept that I cannot wrap my head around is why the government is paying a private banks for money they create out of thin air. Why is the Federal Reserve allowed to do this.
LMAO wow dude live in lala land if it makes you feel better.........You can keep saying "Money that has no backing." all you want....its still not gonna make it true......Fiat is back by a governments ability to tax the utility of that nation.....It represents the true economic value of the nation......gold standard currency is based on a shinny metal that someone dug out of a whole in the ground......which one sounds like a better way to give a value to a medium of exchange?......I'm done posting on this thread.....go back to your conspiracy web site and get some more untrue talking points.....Then go waste your vote on Ron Paul....have fun with that dude...whatever floats your boat..............
Quote: vert1276LMAO wow dude live in lala land if it makes you feel better.........You can keep saying "Money that has no backing." all you want....its still not gonna make it true......Fiat is back by a governments ability to tax the utility of that nation.....It represents the true economic value of the nation......gold standard currency is based on a shinny metal that someone dug out of a whole in the ground......which one sounds like a better way to give a value to a medium of exchange?......I'm done posting on this thread.....go back to your conspiracy web site and get some more untrue talking points.....Then go waste your vote on Ron Paul....have fun with that dude...whatever floats your boat..............
"I'm done posting on this thread" That is the most intelligent thing you have said.
As I have said before stay focused. Why is the Federal Reserve, a private bank allowed to create money and have the taxpayers pay interest to use this fund? Don't let these people confuse you with anything else, just keep asking this question.
Look at the post vert1276 replied to this and ask yourself are you satisfied with his answer. You be the judge.
Quote: AceCrAAckersStop being distracted!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Stay focused. I am an evil bank that is allowed to print all the money for the USA. You want money you have to come to me. If I do it directly, it is too obvious so lets have several buffers and do some smoke and mirrors.
In the end I own you because you cannot pay back the interest. I conquered US without fighting a military fight but an economic fight.
Stay focused. Why are we allowing these bastards to do this to us, and when I mean these beast, I am talking about the Federal reserve and the powers that control them.
Stay focus, and don't talk about secondary bond market, fiat currency, fractional money, bills of credits, illuminati, fractional-reserve banking etc....
I only have one question, why is the Federal Reserve allowed to create money and charge the goverrnment interest to use this money?
Use this money to do what??? LMAO the Federal reserve is just a delivery system for the money....,they dont get to choose how to spend it.......M0 is only 1 trillion.....that's is the TOTAL of bank notes in circulation....the Fed collects interest on the treasuries that back those 1 trillion notes...they pay their overhead....and return the excess interest to the treasury.....It really no that difficult...
Quote: vert1276Use this money to do what??? LMAO the Federal reserve is just a delivery system for the money....,they dont get to choose how to spend it.......M0 is only 1 trillion.....that's is the TOTAL of bank notes in circulation....the Fed collects interest on the treasuries that back those 1 trillion notes...they pay their overhead....and return the excess interest to the treasury.....It really no that difficult...
Let us just talk in facts. With my background in science, I will believe what I believe till you prove me wrong. This is what all scientist believe, conclusion supported by facts,
How much excess interest was returned to the treasury? Any kid who knows algebra will be able to solve an equation with only one unknown variable. From this point we can work back to know that the deficit is.
Quote: AceCrAAckersLet us just talk in facts. With my background in science, I will believe what I believe till you prove me wrong. This is what all scientist believe, conclusion supported by facts,
All you had to do was ask. http://www.federalreserve.gov/newsevents/press/other/other20100110a1.pdf
Quote: AceCrAAckersLet us just talk in facts. With my background in science, I will believe what I believe till you prove me wrong. This is what all scientist believe, conclusion supported by facts,
How much excess interest was returned to the treasury? Any kid who knows algebra will be able to solve an equation with only one unknown variable. From this point we can work back to know that the deficit is.
WHAT????... what does the deficit have to do with the bonds the federal reserve holds??? the deficit is funded by the US goverment selling US treasuries to the OPEN market at a bond auction...by law the Fed can not buy bonds at a treasury bond auction....The goverment brings in "X" in tax revenue...they want to spend "X" plus 1 trillion.......to come up with that 1 trillion they sell bonds at a US treasury auction to inverters and other countries central banks that are holding US dollars(mainly china). When the goverment needs more money than they get from tax revenue they borrow it form investors NOT the Federal reserve...
The deficit has NOTHING to do with the Federal reserve.....and is not funded by them....
Total US debt 15 trillion
Federal reserve holds about 1 trillion it uses to back bank notes
private individuals and institutions....about 40%
SS trust fund holds like 15%
civil service retirement funds hold like 8%
other counties central banks hold the rest
Quote: vert1276WHAT????... what does the deficit have to do with the bonds the federal reserve holds??? the deficit is funded by the US goverment selling US treasuries to the OPEN market at a bond auction...by law the Fed can not buy bonds at a treasury bond auction....The goverment brings in "X" in tax revenue...they want to spend "X" plus 1 trillion.......to come up with that 1 trillion they sell bonds at a US treasury auction to inverters and other countries central banks that are holding US dollars(mainly china). When the goverment needs more money than they get from tax revenue they borrow it form investors NOT the Federal reserve...
The deficit has NOTHING to do with the Federal reserve.....and is not funded by them....
Total US debt 15 trillion
Federal reserve holds about 1 trillion it uses to back bank notes
private individuals and institutions....about 40%
SS trust fund holds like 15%
civil service retirement funds hold like 8%
other counties central banks hold the rest
So look at the web site by the Federal Reserve. In 2010 they returned approx 78 Billion to the treasury. If they hold 1 trillion then at 7.8% interest on the bond that is what they got from the government provided it cost 0 to operate the Fed reserve. Do the math.
So I repeat the one question a different way. Why do we need the Federal Reserve?
