The biggest scam of all time!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Quote: AceCrAAckersSo I repeat the one question a different way. Why do we need the Federal Reserve?
Yes, definitely keep rewording and reasking. That will certainly get you a different answer. Saaaaay, you don't happen to own half of a Denny's franchise in Milwaukee, do you?
Quote: AceCrAAckersSo look at the web site by the Federal Reserve. In 2010 they returned approx 78 Billion to the treasury. If they hold 1 trillion then at 7.8% interest on the bond that is what they got from the government provided it cost 0 to operate the Fed reserve. Do the math.
So I repeat the one question a different way. Why do we need the Federal Reserve?
Well, the interest rate is nowhere even close to 7.8%....what throws that off is TARP money being paid back on CDO's the Fed holds.....as the treasury put up 85% of the money for TARP and the CDO'S were given to the Fed for cash at the discount window....And the treasury has first rights of subrogation...... Plus you would have to look at the ratio of discount bonds(T-bills) to Coupon bonds(T-note and T-bonds) that might also make the "payback" look funky...If you want to look at the Feds balance sheet it is posted weekly on their site you can see all their liabilities and assets and EXACTLY how many US treasury bonds they hold...
As too..."Why do we need the Federal Reserve?".....The federal reserve was created for 2 main reason.....1)to prevent bank runs....2)to standardize currency......before the Fed If a bank had a run it had no lender of last resort(The Fed) and had to rely on other banks lending it money when it was having liquidity problems.....SO now when you become a member bank of the Fed you must give the Fed 6% of your cash holdings to hold to loan out to banks when they are having liquidity problems (NOT SOLVENCY PROBLEMS)....In return banks get shares of stock in the Fed(they cant sell them or use them as collateral)...these shares pay a 6% divined....this dividend is paid by loans the Fed gives out with that money...loans to banks and commercial paper....NOT the interest it receives from US treasuries it holds..
Before the Fed in 1913 there were 20k+ currencies being used in the USA....each bank issued their own bank notes...also even some stores issued their own currency.....In a global economy or a nation wide economy...you cant have this we need a standardized currency...
And of course their are other reasons......those are some of the reasons the Fed haters dont like.....such as controlling monetary policy.....by increasing or decreasing M0(base money) to control interest rates and inflation and deflation....through open market operations.....the Fed also claims as one of its duties to help to control unemployment through monetary policy....this was one of the reason for QE1 and QE2
It is based on facts only and yet these people will call you a conspiracy nut job for believing this.
Warning watch only if you want to see the world as it really is.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Txi8sXO16VU&feature=related
Quote: AceCrAAckersFor all who get confused by all this smoke and mirror please watch this video.
It is based on facts only and yet these people will call you a conspiracy nut job for believing this.
Warning watch only if you want to see the world as it really is.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Txi8sXO16VU&feature=related
OK, I've now watched your rudimentary piece of crap video. It isn't fact based, it's opinion based. When it tries to use facts, it fails. "$1 in 1913 = 21.60 in 2007" So the dollar has lost 90% of it's "value" in 94 years. That would only be true if the same number of dollars were in circulation in both years. My great great grandfather made $1,200 in 1913. I made $60,000 in 2007. Which of us had more buying power (note that buying power is essentially value) Here's a link to a chart of average annual income in 2006 dollars from 1913 to 2006. See how it slopes up? Yes? Then the rest really doesn't matter...
Your video just describes how all banks work. There's no controversy there. That's the system. It's not hidden or controversial. It's the market, and I didn't think the world was otherwise before I watched the video. I'm kind of scared now. Did you think the world was different than that? What rock have you been under?
Quote: rdw4potusOK, I've now watched your rudimentary piece of crap video. It isn't fact based, it's opinion based. When it tries to use facts, it fails. "$1 in 1913 = 21.60 in 2007" So the dollar has lost 90% of it's "value" in 94 years. That would only be true if the same number of dollars were in circulation in both years. My great great grandfather made $1,200 in 1913. I made $60,000 in 2007. Which of us had more buying power (note that buying power is essentially value) Here's a link to a chart of average annual income in 2006 dollars from 1913 to 2006. See how it slopes up? Yes? Then the rest really doesn't matter...
Your video just describes how all banks work. There's no controversy there. That's the system. It's not hidden or controversial. It's the market, and I didn't think the world was otherwise before I watched the video. I'm kind of scared now. Did you think the world was different than that? What rock have you been under?
So you are giving facts to support my claims.
price of gold in 1913 was 18.92. Your grandfather was able to buy 63 oz of gold for a year wages.
Price of gold now is 1800. You can buy 33 oz of gold with a year wages.
I am not taking into factor like taxes which is higher now etc..
Why do you support a system Federal Reserve that charges interest money they make out of nothing. Why can't we have the government do this and not get charged interest. This will be a step in the right direction.
Quote: AceCrAAckersFor all who get confused by all this smoke and mirror please watch this video.
It is based on facts only and yet these people will call you a conspiracy nut job for believing this.
Warning watch only if you want to see the world as it really is.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Txi8sXO16VU&feature=related
HAHAHA wow....that was funny stuff.....And you say that video is based of facts? LMAO ok whatever you say BAHAHAHA
Lets take that looney toons video point by point shall we?
The first point the video tries to make is...."when the goverment needs money they call up the Federal reserve, and trade them 10 billion worth of bonds for 10 billion in Federal reserve notes" LOL Now I see where you came up with this crazy idea.....As I pointed out to you earlier in this threads this is 100% UNTRUE and NEVER happens........
Then it goes on to explain fractional reserve banking......is this really a conspiracy? LOL This is how banks have worked since the inception of banks....If A bank cant loan out depositors money what is the point? LOL wow this video is priceless....
Oh then come one of my favorite parts......When they say the US money supply is only 3% "physical money" LMAO...to people who have a clue what they are talking about we call "physical money" M0 or base money...but obviously this video was made for people who have no clue what they are talking about LOL......But back to the point about "physical money" only being 3% of the total money....WOW that's a bold face lie......MO is 1.1 trillion M1 is 1.9 trillion and M2 is 9.5 Trillion.....Thats is straight from the Federal reserves balance sheet......Of course dont believe them becasue they are a spooky evil bank LMAO.....Of course none of this will make sense to the nut jobs becasue the dont understand the difference between M0,M1, and M2 anyways LOL they think the multiplier effect is some "evil invention of the banks" LMAO.....wow this is fun to pick apart nut job videos...Now I know how the people at popular mechanics felt when they got to pick apart Loose change..the Truthers favorite video...lol.....FYI I would lay 100 to 1 that this guy posting about how bad the Federal reserve is...Is a truther LOL...anyone want to take that bet?
But lets move on becasue this video has some other priceless material....The "devaluing" of money part was funny as hell too LMAO apparently this moron making this video doesn't understand the thousands of other ways inflation happens other than increasing the money supply......but of course he wouldn't becasue that would mean he has studied economics which it is GROSSLY apparent he has not LOL...can You imagine if we had the same amount of currency in circulation as we did 75 years ago? LMAO....As an economy grows you need to increase the money supply to prevent DEFLATION econ 101
I could go on and on tearing apart this video...but whats the point? its some conspiracy theory nut job video on youtube....I have already wasted enough of my life on this clown.....
Quote: AceCrAAckersQuote: rdw4potusOK, I've now watched your rudimentary piece of crap video. It isn't fact based, it's opinion based. When it tries to use facts, it fails. "$1 in 1913 = 21.60 in 2007" So the dollar has lost 90% of it's "value" in 94 years. That would only be true if the same number of dollars were in circulation in both years. My great great grandfather made $1,200 in 1913. I made $60,000 in 2007. Which of us had more buying power (note that buying power is essentially value) Here's a link to a chart of average annual income in 2006 dollars from 1913 to 2006. See how it slopes up? Yes? Then the rest really doesn't matter...
Your video just describes how all banks work. There's no controversy there. That's the system. It's not hidden or controversial. It's the market, and I didn't think the world was otherwise before I watched the video. I'm kind of scared now. Did you think the world was different than that? What rock have you been under?
So you are giving facts to support my claims.
price of gold in 1913 was 18.92. Your grandfather was able to buy 63 oz of gold for a year wages.
Price of gold now is 1800. You can buy 33 oz of gold with a year wages.
I am not taking into factor like taxes which is higher now etc..
Why do you support a system Federal Reserve that charges interest money they make out of nothing. Why can't we have the government do this and not get charged interest. This will be a step in the right direction.
*faceplam*
It like we are debating a brick wall LMAO.......WHO CARES that the US dollar has lost value compared to the value of gold??? Please explain how that is relevant AT ALL.......I'm starting to get it now...you nut jobs are basing everything off the price of gold...again WHO CARES?????......Are you able to buy more stuff toady then your grandfather was? The answer is YES!...Just look at the lifestyle standards from 1913 till now..... We are talking about buying power not how much shiny metal I can stack away that has no utility.....not to mention....the amount of gold mined per year doesn't meet the population increase so gold would go up in value bases solely on that fact......
But as long as you think its sound economics to link the dollar to one physical item......I'm gonna link the dollar to the price of VCR's ok? in 1981 A VCR was $300 now you can buy one for $30......so therefor the US dollar has 10 times more value and buying power than it did just 30 years ago........LOL now you see how dumb it is to link the US dollar to gold to give it value?
Quote: AceCrAAckersWhy do you support a system Federal Reserve that charges interest money they make out of nothing. Why can't we have the government do this and not get charged interest. This will be a step in the right direction.
Why do you care about the internal workings of the financial system if you're really only interested in the output of that system? If your standard of living goes up, if your buying power goes up, if your financial security goes up, do you actually care how or why that happens? In other words, are you more interested in the means or the ends?
I think most people are only interested in the ends -- having a stable financial system that allows them to pursue happiness. It's like learning how the butcher makes sausage and then complaining about his techniques. If the sausages are tasty, why change how they're made?
Also, it seems like your main critique is with fractional-reserve banking as a whole, not just with the central bank. Do you really want to live in a world where getting a bank loan is impossible? Those societies exist, but their economies don't grow very fast.
Did you pay cash for your home or your car? If not, did you get the loans from an angel investor or from a bank?
Quote: AceCrAAckersQuote: rdw4potusOK, I've now watched your rudimentary piece of crap video. It isn't fact based, it's opinion based. When it tries to use facts, it fails. "$1 in 1913 = 21.60 in 2007" So the dollar has lost 90% of it's "value" in 94 years. That would only be true if the same number of dollars were in circulation in both years. My great great grandfather made $1,200 in 1913. I made $60,000 in 2007. Which of us had more buying power (note that buying power is essentially value) Here's a link to a chart of average annual income in 2006 dollars from 1913 to 2006. See how it slopes up? Yes? Then the rest really doesn't matter...
Your video just describes how all banks work. There's no controversy there. That's the system. It's not hidden or controversial. It's the market, and I didn't think the world was otherwise before I watched the video. I'm kind of scared now. Did you think the world was different than that? What rock have you been under?
So you are giving facts to support my claims.
price of gold in 1913 was 18.92. Your grandfather was able to buy 63 oz of gold for a year wages.
Price of gold now is 1800. You can buy 33 oz of gold with a year wages.
I am not taking into factor like taxes which is higher now etc..
Why do you support a system Federal Reserve that charges interest money they make out of nothing. Why can't we have the government do this and not get charged interest. This will be a step in the right direction.
You think that having the Government control both monetary and fiscal policy would be a GOOD thing? Yes, definitely... Giving the government the ability to loan itself unlimited sums of money with no interest penalty to consider would be a brilliant idea. Right up there with shoving my penis in an electrical outlet.
And about me and my grandpa: If gold were edible, I'd care about how much gold we could each buy. Since it isn't, I'll take the less idiotic approach of pointing out that I can buy far more consumer goods with my $60k than great great granddad could with his $1,200 in 1913.
One last shot: If you can't see that gold is artificially high, you're blind. The slope on the price increase is obviously too steep to sustain. Gold now is like tech stocks in 1999 or housing in 2006.
Before this year is over the price of siver will be over 100 oz and gold will be over 2500 oz. Before 2013 you can expect the prices of this to be double that.
Before rdw and vert jump all over me wait till the end of this year to see what happens. Even if I am right, you can see what the prices are in 2013 to see if the second part of that prediction pans out or not.
I don't care if rdw and vert don't believe anything that I am saying. Cause and effect. All else people, judge for yourself using facts and data to support your conclusiion. At the end if I make you think for yourself, even if you disagree with me, at least I have satisfaction in knowing that I have you thinking about a subject that mass media never touches on.
Last point, vert had said that you cannot eat gold and silver so what does it matter how high it gets. Prices of these elements have faired well against inflation. Using the price of VCR is idiodic. If you want to compare using another commodity, use the price of shoe, of milk, of tailored made suit, or any other commodity that is used now that takes equal amount of labor to produce now as then.
Quote: AceCrAAckersI hope that I am wrong but it remains to be seen.
Before this year is over the price of siver will be over 100 oz and gold will be over 2500 oz. Before 2013 you can expect the prices of this to be double that.
Before rdw and vert jump all over me wait till the end of this year to see what happens. Even if I am right, you can see what the prices are in 2013 to see if the second part of that prediction pans out or not.
I don't care if rdw and vert don't believe anything that I am saying. Cause and effect. All else people, judge for yourself using facts and data to support your conclusiion. At the end if I make you think for yourself, even if you disagree with me, at least I have satisfaction in knowing that I have you thinking about a subject that mass media never touches on.
Last point, vert had said that you cannot eat gold and silver so what does it matter how high it gets. Prices of these elements have faired well against inflation. Using the price of VCR is idiodic. If you want to compare using another commodity, use the price of shoe, of milk, of tailored made suit, or any other commodity that is used now that takes equal amount of labor to produce now as then.
Well first off...any commodity can be an inflation hedge....wheat, oil, soy, ect ect.....But that gold market is so far in contago, that the futures looks bear......FYI in 1982 gold was 2400 oz inflation adjusted.....people who were buying then were saying "it can only go up"...just like many said about housing prices...or people who were buying dot.com stocks that were trading at 600 times earnings.....But I can tell you this....the people who jumped on the gold bubble train in the early 80's.....it didn't work out to well for them......Smart money is on low cost gold put options.....12 months out IMO.......
And yes comparing the value of the dollar to VCR prices was idiotic....that was the whole point.....Try to point out how idiotic it is to compare the dollar to the price of gold....
why I pay my publicist $50 a week, he's worthless."
$50 a week??? In 1950's money, thats equivelant to $400 in todays money.
Who's he kidding? Him and Lucy live in a tiny 1 bedroom apartment and he's
paying a publicist that much? No way... In 1950, an apartment like that in
NYC would have cost about $40 a month. I saw a movie made in 1949 and
the guy was living in a huge 3 bedroom apartment that had servents quarters
and he was paying $90 a month. No way is Ricky paying the guy 5 times more
than he pays for the apartment.
Quote: EvenBobI was watching an ep of I Love Lucy,made in 1950. Ricky said "I don't know
why I pay my publicist $50 a week, he's worthless."
$50 a week??? In 1950's money, thats equivelant to $400 in todays money.
Who's he kidding? Him and Lucy live in a tiny 1 bedroom apartment and he's
paying a publicist that much? No way... In 1950, an apartment like that in
NYC would have cost about $40 a month. I saw a movie made in 1949 and
the guy was living in a huge 3 bedroom apartment that had servents quarters
and he was paying $90 a month. No way is Ricky paying the guy 5 times more
than he pays for the apartment.
He could also buy a brand new 1950 Cadillac convertible fully loaded for $3500....on a 3 year financing with like 5% interest he would only be paying about $100 a month......or half of what he was paying his publicist.....But then again most publicists work for a percentage like most agents and managers do....10%..... so maybe Ricky was making $500 a week or 26k a year in 1950?
1 bedroom tiny place. I would think he wouldn't be making more than 10K, which was a lot
of money at the time. I think your average factory worker was only making about $1500 a
year, maybe less.
Quote: EvenBob26K would be 200K in todays money, they would have certainly been living better than that
1 bedroom tiny place. I would think he wouldn't be making more than 10K, which was a lot
of money at the time. I think your average factory worker was only making about $1500 a
year, maybe less.
As to them living in a 1 bedroom place.......well it was a TV show LOL
Quote: vert1276I tried to read but just couldn't....Cant take the nut jobs who want to end the federal reserve becasue they dont understand it.....Hey your tin foil hat is showing........Im sure you are gonna be one of the 3 people voting for Ron Paul? LOL
I'm no fan of Ron Paul but when Richard Nixon took us off the gold standard a $20 bill would buy a $20 gold piece. Now it takes about 80 $20 bills to buy a $20 gold piece.
Reagan and Bush's daddy quadrupled the national debt from less than $1 trillion to more than $4 trillion. Clinton raised taxes on the upper 2% of taxpayers and not only balanced the annual budget but paid down nearly $400 billion of debt. Surpluses were projected allo the way to the outyears and the total debt would have paid off by 2012. THEN....ALONG CAME GEORGE. George W. Bush cut taxes twice, started two wars, doubled the national debt and absolutely wrecked the American economy and damn near the world. Ordinary Americans who vote Republican need to get their heads examined. All of them are in the pockets of corporations and the wealthy.
1.) The coinage used is made of base metals, like Copper, Zinc, and Nickel, which are commodities that have an intrinsic value. (BTW, how much is a pre-1982 "penny" worth?, and how much is a five-cent-piece worth?)
2.) I would agree, leaving a gold-standard/silver-standard was probably a large mistake, just as the abandonment of a "US Note" surely was. The US Notes that can still be found, ARE inflation-index adjusted, and a $5 US Note is worth in excess of a $20 Fed Reserve Note.
3.) There are gold-standard currencies offered, making anyone owning physical gold or silver their own bank. Say neighbor... can I buy that 2 year old Acura for say, 100 ounces of gold? Here's a certificate proving ownership and amount. In exchange my neighbor gets to keep it, transfer the gold to HIS account, or exchange it for buillion gold, silver, platinum, or commodity of choice, OR exchange it for the fiat currency of his choice at the prevailing commodity rate. If you doubt this just go to kitco dot com and look up gold-grams... just the first example off the top of my poynty head.
4.) OP: If you don't like the US Dollar and its insidious nature, what would you suggest we DO... what are YOU going to DO about it? Spread more fudjam? Buy Gold or Silver and make your own currency? Keep on spending US Dollars? Euro's? Shekels? Pound Stirlings? In quiring minds want to know what YOU are gonna DO.
N&B
Quote: NandBBesides the fud fodder I have read, the US Dollar is really no different than any other currency.
1.) The coinage used is made of base metals, like Copper, Zinc, and Nickel, which are commodities that have an intrinsic value. (BTW, how much is a pre-1982 "penny" worth?, and how much is a five-cent-piece worth?)
2.) I would agree, leaving a gold-standard/silver-standard was probably a large mistake, just as the abandonment of a "US Note" surely was. The US Notes that can still be found, ARE inflation-index adjusted, and a $5 US Note is worth in excess of a $20 Fed Reserve Note.
3.) There are gold-standard currencies offered, making anyone owning physical gold or silver their own bank. Say neighbor... can I buy that 2 year old Acura for say, 100 ounces of gold? Here's a certificate proving ownership and amount. In exchange my neighbor gets to keep it, transfer the gold to HIS account, or exchange it for buillion gold, silver, platinum, or commodity of choice, OR exchange it for the fiat currency of his choice at the prevailing commodity rate. If you doubt this just go to kitco dot com and look up gold-grams... just the first example off the top of my poynty head.
4.) OP: If you don't like the US Dollar and its insidious nature, what would you suggest we DO... what are YOU going to DO about it? Spread more fudjam? Buy Gold or Silver and make your own currency? Keep on spending US Dollars? Euro's? Shekels? Pound Stirlings? In quiring minds want to know what YOU are gonna DO.
N&B
USA is bankrupt. There are no gold at Fort Knox. Even if there were gold it would not be enough to make a dent in the defict. At the current US deficit, each men, women, and child has to come up with $50,000 to erase the defict. Can't be done. The government has spent the social security fund and not reported in its accounting. Their rules so it doesn't matter. Mathematically, US can't spend and borrow at current rate and be solvent. US will default.
Protect yourself and buy physical silver. The price has been suppressed so it is cheap at even triple the current price. Fiat currency for real money.
As for all those who say that the Federal Reserve is good for the country, just keep your fiat currency. You know that is not what you will be doing.
Go to Walmart or any other store and you will not see anything made in the USA. The rest of the world gives us finished product and we give them the dollar that we print. Why do you say that they would want the dollar? Because oil can only be purchased with the dollar. If you are in Japan and want to buy oil from the Saudi's they will not except gold, Sauldi money or Toyotas as an exchange for the oil.
Which countries do not have this agreement to sell oil for dollar? If you guessed Iran, Iraq, Lybia, you would be correct. The so called axis of evil countries.
Look at the derivative markets.
First there will be currency war.
Then the federal reserve(US Central Bank) will increase the interest rate.
Follwed by S..t will hit the fan.
Money created out of thin air and injected into the economy at a rate of $40,000,000,000 a month till whenever. Petro dollar dying. China will sell oil in yuan. They will get oil from Russia. These are the two other big boys that US cannot bully like they can with Iran. Silver $34.57 and gold $1765.50 now. Last chance to get them at this price.
Anybody who advocates this type of long term, large scale, inflation is nuts. I realize that the CBO says inflation is 1.9%, but that doesn't include the prices of FOOD, WATER, GASOLINE, or ANYTHING else that people NEED to buy. It only includes things like TVs, books, etc. that are extra. If you include the things that people need, the new measure of inflation would be close to 9%, if you figured in how much money people spend on what.
So, yeah, it's crazy.
