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mkl654321
mkl654321
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
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August 30th, 2010 at 5:28:19 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

Any business that cheats its customers is soon left without any customers to cheat. The only exceptions are coercive monopolies, companies that are the only ones allowed to offfer a certain good or service by government compulsion. Back when there was only one telephone service provider in mexico, government-owned, they cheated customers all the time. Your only other choice was to do without a telephone.

Once the comapny was privatized and, in time, other companies provided competition, including cell phone companies, service prices went down.

So, sure, a casino could cheat. It would lose more business than it gained on cheating, though.



The above statement makes the rather large attendant presumption that the cheating will be detected, coupled with the even larger presumption that said cheating will be exposed for all to see even if one person DOES manage to detect it.

As I've said elsewhere, I have been cheated many times, often rather blatantly, and there was, as a practical matter, nothing I could do about it. And even mentioning it casually to anyone else provoked the same knee-jerk response: "Why would they cheat you? They always win anyway!!!!!!" LOL, and puke.

To give you a noncasino example, most new car dealers charge for "dealer prep" and "undercoating", amounting to hundreds of dollars, even though the "dealer prep" consists of spraying the interior with air freshener and the "undercoating" is nonexistent. This has been going on for decades. Those car dealers are still in business. 'Nuff said.
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
Headlock
Headlock
Joined: Feb 9, 2010
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August 30th, 2010 at 5:51:06 PM permalink
Quote: Zcore13

Although the original poster makes what I feel to be a silly comment in thatcasinos cheat and doesn't see any deterents to cheating, I'll provide a bit of information for those interested. Here is a link to the Nevada gaming board complaint agenda. http://gaming.nv.gov/complaints.htm These are cases of major violations. Minor violations are done with "write-ups", much like a food inspection for restaraunts. If the minor violations are not corrected, the casino could be shut down.

There is no reason for a casino to risk their license/business to purposely cheat. They don't have to cheat to win. There are so many check and balances in a casino. Cards, dice, chips are maticulously tracked. A casino knows where EVERY card and EVERY die is at all times or there is trouble. I don't know about Nevada as much, because I'm in Arizona, but my Casino self reports all the time. It's not worth getting caught on something. You're safer self reporting and fixing the issue.

To mkl654321, NJ is not the only place with live reps on site. Arizona requires a Gaming Inspector be on duty at every Casino 24 hours a day. If there is not one available, the only one scheduled has to leave for some reason, or any other reason makes it so that there is no inspector, the Casino must remove all patrons and close the doors until an Inspector shows up. Most Casinos have multiple inspectors at any one time to prevent the risk of having to close.

Tiltpoul, your story on the Ultimate Texas Holdem is proof that the gaming regulations work. The staff obviously had some miscommunication if some were doing it one way and some were doing it a different way. You brought this to the commission persons attention and he made a ruling. You were correct and afterwards there is no doubt in my mind there was an incident report filed with the commission detailing the situation. I would not refer to the situation as cheating though.

This thread could go on and on forever. Yes there are bad individuals in every profession. A dealer may try and work with a player hear and there, but for the vast majority of dealers it's not worth risking the paycheck, benefits, 401k, etc for the chance at a few hundred or thousand dollars. Security measures are too tight. 99.99% of the time that you gamble, the odds are exactly as they should be. You will most likeley lose without any need for cheating.



I don't know that I made a silly comment about casinos cheating. I do think your poor spelling, punctuation and grammar is silly.

Your comment that casinos don't have to cheat to win is silly. The house edge doesn't equate to profit. The 1.41% HA on an empty craps table with 4 employees is not generating a profit.
TheNightfly
TheNightfly
Joined: May 21, 2010
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August 30th, 2010 at 6:01:08 PM permalink
Quote: mkl654321

To give you a noncasino example, most new car dealers charge for "dealer prep" and "undercoating", amounting to hundreds of dollars, even though the "dealer prep" consists of spraying the interior with air freshener and the "undercoating" is nonexistent. This has been going on for decades. Those car dealers are still in business. 'Nuff said.




Once again mlk, you've shown your ignorance by making a claim you can't possibly back up and posting it with the mistaken belief that because it's been posted by you, not only is it true but that others will believe you.

Having sold cards for 4 years, I can tell you that dealer prep is more than simply spraying the interior with air freshener. The car must be thoroughly cleaned inside and out and it must pass a basic inspection (fluids and such). Undercoating that is nonexistent would immediately be noticed by any customer who simply crouches down to see clean, bare metal on the underside of their car. To suggest that "most new car dealers" charge for undercoating that has not been applied and for simply spraying the interior of a new car with air freshener is foolish, childish and unsubstantiated; very similar to many of your claims made in this thread.

I no longer sell cars so I couldn't care less if someone slags the industry... but at least make a somewhat intelligent and educated remark.

You are apparently a very angry person who likes to use a thesaurus and has found an outlet for your vitriol. I am making these observations and comments myself because it's a shame to see this website used by those who have nothing constructive or substantive to add to the conversation.
Happiness is underrated
SanchoPanza
SanchoPanza
Joined: May 10, 2010
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August 30th, 2010 at 6:16:13 PM permalink
Quote: Zcore13

Although the original poster makes what I feel to be a silly comment in thatcasinos cheat and doesn't see any deterents to cheating, I'll provide a bit of information for those interested. Here is a link to the Nevada gaming board complaint agenda. http://gaming.nv.gov/complaints.htm



Thanks for the URL. If this first tasting of the material is typical, it could hold a trove of scenes like this one for a movie, a book, a TV series. Who could dream up this one? (Page 4)
Baccarat shenanigans
SanchoPanza
SanchoPanza
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August 30th, 2010 at 6:17:37 PM permalink
Quote: Headlock

I've seen blackjack tables that have sensors in the betting area that "read" the amount bet from the identifiers in the chips, ostensibly to track each players average wager. I imagine they can do the same thing on the craps table.



That would be a sight to see.
Nareed
Nareed
Joined: Nov 11, 2009
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August 30th, 2010 at 6:23:02 PM permalink
Quote: Headlock

I've seen blackjack tables that have sensors in the betting area that "read" the amount bet from the identifiers in the chips, ostensibly to track each players average wager. I imagine they can do the same thing on the craps table.



Of course they have them at the craps table. I've seen them at every BJ table in Vegas, well, every open one. The device is called "the dealer's eyes," and they identify chip value by color. They can tell when a player raises or lowers a bet, too. Amazing stuff.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
cclub79
cclub79
Joined: Dec 16, 2009
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August 30th, 2010 at 6:24:36 PM permalink
I try to be diplomatic, but even I realized that he got his info on undercoating from an old Seinfeld episode:

JERRY: Alright, alright. Alright, thatís enough! Letís get back to my deal. That undercoating, thatís just a rip-off, isnít it, David?

PUDDY: Oh, we donít even know what it is.

Undercoating is increasingly more important the more you drive on gravel or stone surfaces. It's also usually an option that if you absolutely don't want, you can get a model without it. Plus it's listed on the sticker. You are being told you are paying for it, and can not buy the car if you don't want to. That's not cheating. Cheating is they sell you the car and tell the loan company to bill you for $1000 more. Dealer prep is the house edge. Everyone can see it and knows it. It's not hidden. It might not be blantantly advertised what it really is, but neither is the 10%+ edge on Snake Eyes.
TheNightfly
TheNightfly
Joined: May 21, 2010
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August 30th, 2010 at 6:26:48 PM permalink
And mlk's snappy rejoinder is...
Happiness is underrated
mkl654321
mkl654321
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
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August 30th, 2010 at 6:58:08 PM permalink
Quote: TheNightfly

Once again mlk, you've shown your ignorance by making a claim you can't possibly back up and posting it with the mistaken belief that because it's been posted by you, not only is it true but that others will believe you.

Having sold cards for 4 years

You are apparently a very angry person who likes to use a thesaurus and has found an outlet for your vitriol. I am making these observations and comments myself because it's a shame to see this website used by those who have nothing constructive or substantive to add to the conversation.



Somehow, I think that you're biased, having engaged in the noble profession of auto dealership yourself. The undercoating scam is usually confined to areas that have severe cold weather. In the desert southwest, they try to charge you for window tinting. In any case, many new car dealers are crooks and thieves, a remark I will stand behind. From upselling pointless extended warranties to tacking on overpriced options, America's car dealers have made the process of buying a car thoroughly unpleasant. And by the way, I held a car dealer's license for TEN years (though it was not my primary business).

And I don't even own a thesaurus. I have an extensive vocabulary, and I use it, like any other tool. That evidently bothers you, perhaps because when reading my posts, you need frequent recourse to a dictionary.

Whether I am "very angry" or my comments bring "nothing constructive or substantive" are value judgments, which you are sadly ill-equipped to make.
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
mkl654321
mkl654321
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
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August 30th, 2010 at 6:58:53 PM permalink
Quote: TheNightfly

And mlk's snappy rejoinder is...



To whom?
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw

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