Casinos don't cheat.....prove it.

Quote: rxwine

... or the FDA and meat packing. Someone goes in and pokes a ham once a year, and gives a Pass to the whole system.

Okay, a bit of hyperbole, but ...

I do understand that food processing is not the point of your post, but are you actually familiar at all with the government inspection of slaughter/processing plants? I admit that I myself have never been to a beef or pork facility, but I have visited a number of poultry processing plants.

Each plant has full-time veterinarians from the Department of Agriculture working in the plant whenever the lines are in operation. They are continuously inspecting, and I think they actually look at every bird individually as its carcass is processed -- and that's a whole flock of chickens at those big plants. The inspectors have the authority (and use it) to shut down the entire plant if they don't like what they see. It is far from being a cursory inspection process or an automatic "Pass." There is something closer to a polite, adversarial relationship than a buddy-buddy relationship between processor and inspector.

I suspect the same is true of beef and pork processing facilities, though I have no first-hand experience. That's why it is such a shock and a really big deal when contaminated meat actually gets to the market.

It is my impression that the fishing industry is quite a different story, but I know none of the details there.

Quote: JerryLogan

I know the Nevada regulations SAY that the machines can be examined at any time without notice but I have never SEEN that happen, and of the very many other players I know and have asked this of, none of them have ever seen that occur also. In addition, I regularly ask the machine techs who either fix my machines or in casual conversation, and none of them have ever heard of or seen these snap inspections occur either. I'm more of the opinion that the inspectors might check over machines that went out of service due to technical problems and then went back on line, and not necessarily directly either. They may get copies of tech reports that are signed off by the proper casino authorities.

Obviously game inspections happen or you'd never get a situation like Ron Harris. And how do you know that you'd be able to identify a gaming agent inspection if you saw it, as opposed to just another casino manager doing an internal audit?

Quote: MathExtremist

Obviously game inspections happen or you'd never get a situation like Ron Harris. And how do you know that you'd be able to identify a gaming agent inspection if you saw it, as opposed to just another casino manager doing an internal audit?

They may actually occur, but hardly in the way we think of them as. I also don't believe anything would ever be made public unless it was for a specific reason other than what we'd expect. The company I work for regularly has truck inspections and they are visible, often, and thorough. But that's only because an unsafe truck puts lives in danger. One could make a very good argument for not inspecting the machines.

Quote: Headlock

Or at least prove there is a deterrent.

I posed a question in an earlier thread asking whether anyone had knowledge of gaming control checking dice or cards. This was the only comment.

q=SanchoPanza]Before the tables open for the day, I've seen CCC personnel in Atlantic City walking around as the calipers were being deployed. It's not a big deal. And it's probably more in the casinos' interest to have unbiased dice in the event that sharp-eyed customers might pick up on some anomaly.

Who are CCC personnel?

I heard it from a friend who heard it from a friend who witnessed gaming control snatching the dice off the table and checking them right there. If I am ever lucky enough to see gaming control in a casino (and so far I have not been lucky) I plan to ask for identification and call their office to confirm they don't work for the casino.

Has anyone ever seen gaming control check the dice or the cards? Any first-hand knowledge? Any gaming commission readers out there?

Casinos try to cheat me regularly.... You ever heard of asm's well watch out for blue decks they are stacked sometimes by the machines. Also, in shoe games that are electronic, the shoe can tell if a deck is ten rich and sometimes, not all the time, they will shuffle it when this occurs, before the cut card. This is especially true for online casinos...

Quote: bjgod

Who are CCC personnel?

Casino Control Commission, one of the (currently) two New Jersey State agencies in regulating casino gambling.

Quote: bjgod

If I am ever lucky enough to see gaming control in a casino (and so far I have not been lucky) I plan to ask for identification and call their office to confirm they don't work for the casino.

Lots of luck in dealing with the response, too.

Quote: bjgod

Casinos try to cheat me regularly.... You ever heard of asm's well watch out for blue decks they are stacked sometimes by the machines.

Why would you play with them?

Quote: bjgod

Also, in shoe games that are electronic, the shoe can tell if a deck is ten rich and sometimes, not all the time, they will shuffle it when this occurs, before the cut card. This is especially true for online casinos...

Do you play online, too?

Quote: bjgod

Casinos try to cheat me regularly.... You ever heard of asm's well watch out for blue decks they are stacked sometimes by the machines. Also, in shoe games that are electronic, the shoe can tell if a deck is ten rich and sometimes, not all the time, they will shuffle it when this occurs, before the cut card. This is especially true for online casinos...

Quite the contrary, most online casinos don't use virtual shoes. Essentially all major online software vendors shuffle the deck each time a hand is dealt. Just like land-based video blackjack games.

Why do you feel you're so regularly cheated? More to the point, why do you still play?

While walking passed table games to play poker, I heard a player say that on Three Card Poker "Players are more likely to receive Three of a Kind and Straight Flushes on a hand shuffle than the machine shuffle, because the machine is rigged"

I said, "casinos have such a huge house advantage on games that they do not need to cheat to crush"

I am referring to live dealer blackjack

As far as 3 card shuffling machines being rigged, there's one very big problem with that idea. The machine can't know how many players are at the table at any given time, so it can't really know which groups of cards should be bad and which group of cards will go to the dealer and end up winning. I guess it might be possible to make the machine just not ever give out the higher ranked hands, but that doesn't guarantee that the dealer will win, only that the pairs plus is less likely to hit. For a player who doesn't play pairs plus, that doesn't matter that much anyway. Or you could rig it so that when you have the maximum amount of players the dealer wins, but any time there were less than the max number of players it wouldn't work. And if the machines are rigged, they're doing a very poor job of it because I've hit straights and flushes (and even a trips and a straight flush) was too often, especially considering how little I play.

There is one inadvertent (at least I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt) mistake that you have to watch out for in 3 card. At the casino I play at (I'm assuming it's the same everywhere), if the dealer doesn't qualify then all the players who are still in the game are supposed to automatically win their ante bet at 1 to 1. The play bet is a push (and should be pushed back as soon as the dealer sees that he didn't qualify), and the pairs plus still depends on whether you get pairs or higher. But I've seen some dealers attempt to pick up bets if their non-qualifying hands still beat the hands of the players, and I've heard that in some cases if the players didn't realize what was going on that they got away with it (to be fair to the dealers, who sometimes switch between Ultimate and 3 card, in Ultimate that is the correct procedure.) 3 card usually has the rules written on the felt, so if you ever do play 3 card poker and the dealer tries to pick up your ante bet when they did not qualify, read the rules on the felt and then ask for a pit boss to make sure they're following the rules.

Dealer ignorance of the rules of play might benefit the casino but it would not amount to casino cheating. I think its more a matter of assigning dealers to various games and not having sufficient training periods or effective floor personnel. Take one look at the house edge and see what a casino would gain by fiddling with the shuffler versus what it would lose in the resulting scandal that made the casino a ghost town.

After Katrina, Biloxi casinos had some ill-trained dice dealers. Taking a Come Bet on a Seven-Out benefited the casino but it was simple ignorance. Do you think the casino was going to give the dealer a bit more because one five dollar chip got swept up than it should have?