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scudder
scudder
Joined: Aug 30, 2010
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September 3rd, 2010 at 5:54:25 AM permalink
Quote: Headlock

I do want. I don't know how.



My statistics knowledge is a little rusty, but I'll poke around some of my old books and see if I can come up with the math for you. I'm sure many people here can verify my approach, right or wrong, or present their own. Do you happen to know your average or typical pass line bet size? And do you always play 10X odds?


Quote: Headlock


I'm not going to say casinos cheat, or would cheat if they had the opportunity, but I think if they could increase the edge on table games or slots just by a fraction of a percent, it would result in millions, not nickels and dimes.



It most certainly would, given the kind of gaming revenue casinos in Vegas see. Just to throw some real numbers into the mix, the Nevada Gaming Control Board reports that all Las Vegas Strip casinos combined reported a gambling win of $382,959,382.00 for the month of June. This is across all of their gaming, but you can imagine the effect if they could bump their average house edge up by even 1/10 of 1 percent.

My problem with that,though, is that there are so many other ways for the casino to legally take more money from you, that it just wouldn't make sense to try to pry some extra edge out of a game by rigging it somehow. I mean, say they raised the room rate by $5 a night, how many room-nights do they sell in a month, or a year? While lucrative, it just doesn't stand to reason as far as I'm concerned.
superrick
superrick
Joined: Jul 14, 2010
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September 3rd, 2010 at 9:06:13 AM permalink
Headlock

You have two different issues here, one is that you are losing when playing, and the other in your mind the casinos just might be cheating you and you want to know if the fox is guarding the hen-house!

Let take your question about the Gaming Boards, they were put in place so John Q public would feel secure in betting their money in the casinos. Why was there a need for that in the states mind, because they are the ones that are befitting, beside the casinos in the form of taxes? All the states look at gaming as a way to raise taxes, to supplement their tax base.

Then you need to know how gaming got started in Nevada, and that was basically during our gold rush in 1859. California had already become a state after their gold rush and their population went to over 400,000 in 1850. Gaming was big back then in every little mining town, and cheating ran ramp it, and that is one reason you will see guns on the tables as they were playing.

Nevada was granted statehood back in 1864. The big draw to new pioneers was the mining, and it didnít take to long before that was gone. During the peak the state population was almost at 63,000. With the miners came the alcohol, gambling, and prostitution. By the nineteenth century the population fell to less than 50,000 and we almost lost the statehood.

If you have ever been to Vegas and the surrounding area you might have notice that once you get out of Vegas you have to drive about 50 miles just to get to the next town! We have no industry to speak of. The Methodist church went on a campaign to stop gaming in Nevada. With the collapsed of the mining industry they had no problem with their antigambling crusade. At first it was success full then totally ignored; this lasted from 1910 till 1931 gambling was illegal, but openly ignored by the law.

Then in 1931 gaming became legal, and Reno was the place to go, could it have been from the fact that they still didnít have AC! It wasnít till 1950s that Vegas really came into being developed, and the rest is history! The sad part of this story is that Nevada never did develop any other industry, and there is nothing to support the state but the taxes from gaming!

The casinos control Nevada, they are the ones with all the money, so what they want they get from the politicians. The gaming boards were put into effect, because of the Mob and how they ran the casinos, before Hughes bought the Desert Inn 1967. The public thought that the casinos that were run by the mob would cheat, then came the worst thing that happened to the casinos, the Corporations, just ask any local that has been here for a long time and they remember how the casinos were run by the mob!

With the gaming board in place and the Corporations running the casinos John Q public, now didnít think anything about gambling, it had to be squeaky clean. After all the casinos would lose their gaming licenses right?

Well I pose this question to all of you, if your only source of taxes was from the casinos just how hard would you be on the ones that were supplying all your funds to run your state? Could you detect cheating, are you at the tables long enough to tell something is wrong! Just how much does the casino have to change anything that will push the house edge up, that the players would never notice?

There are a lot of good books on the Gambling Industry, and I am not going to do all your research for all of you, but I will give you some books you might want to read on the subject. To start with try Gambling in America by Willian N Thompaon.
Then how about, License to Steal: Nevadaís Gaming Control System in the Megaresort Age. By Jeff Burbanks

One thing about living in Vegas is we can get just about any book on the gaming Industry, and it has not be as clean as you all think! With billions of dollars going into gaming every year what is the chance of someone cheating and it could be a casino.

Read the books then make up your own minds!

For the second part of your question, you never did say were you played at, in what state would be a good start. You didnít say how long you have been playing craps, it could be that you have been playing for 45 years, but you never learned how to bet the game. I see this all the time, with players that play everyday, and it just blows my mind! Even with good betting strategies, the game is almost impossible to beat! You are using an out dated way of betting and you could be losing every time you play, just because you read something in a book about betting does not guarantee that you will win, and I donít care that you are saying the house only has a .18% edge on you. You still have to know how to bet, and how to play the trends!
Most players will never learn how to bet, they lose all the time!

There are a lot of good books out there, sorry to tell you this, but if I was you, I would be reading everything I could get my hands on! Please don't take it as a insult, you could be the best player there ever was, and have a true problem with the casino you are playing in! I have no way of telling, what is going on, but your betting is out dated and you could improve how you bet! Boy that one is going to draw a lot of players telling me they win with that all the time!

First off read Scarneís on dice and you can also read Scarneís New Complete Guide to Gambling: Both books by John Scarne

Most writers on the game of craps have just rewritten information taking from his books!
Here is a quote from Scarneís New Complete Guide to Gambling taking from around pages 409-420

In games of luck such as roulette, craps, or baccarat the player is foolish to believe they can sustain an edge over the house with any system!

The books that should help you with your betting are!

Start with Sam Grafstein Craps The Dice Doctor, for your betting!
Then John Patrickís Craps
Then Dice Setting Crapsability

That should get you on the right track with your betting!
Any of these books are a small investment and should be read by anybody that is losing playing craps.
You can also read The Mad Professor's Crapshooting Bible, I have a problem with the fiction in the book, but he does put out a lot of great imformation on betting the game!
You can also PM me at http://procraps4u2.myfanforum.org it's a free site to help you with you betting.
One final thing just because you might see eight shooters in a row not make a point does not mean the casino are using bad dice, and cheating you. That is the only thing they can do to cheat you, besides putting something under the felt like the Four Queens and Fitzgeralds does in Vegas! Remember there are no rules on craps or dice in Neavda and they can get away with it!
Note, all my post start with this is just my opinion...! You do good brada ..! superrick Winning comes from knowledge and skill when your betting and not reading fiction http://procraps4u2.myfanforum.org/index.php ...
teddys
teddys
Joined: Nov 14, 2009
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September 3rd, 2010 at 11:21:08 AM permalink
Quote: superrick

Even with good betting strategies, the game is impossible to beat!

Corrected.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
cclub79
cclub79
Joined: Dec 16, 2009
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September 3rd, 2010 at 1:36:41 PM permalink
Quote:

Well I pose this question to all of you, if your only source of taxes was from the casinos just how hard would you be on the ones that were supplying all your funds to run your state? Could you detect cheating, are you at the tables long enough to tell something is wrong!



You are arguing two separate points. If you suggest that they tacitly accept cheating because they benefit from it, they are only one big enough scandal away from losing the trust of the consumer and losing a lot more in taxes (and probably most important for politicians, losing the next election if the story ever got out). Maybe when Vegas was the only place to gamble, people didn't care if there were stories about cheating. But if you have a casino 15 minutes from your Indiana home, and you fly to Vegas for fun in the sun but hear that they are not trustworthy, then you'll likely wait until you get home to gamble. Or maybe skip Vegas altogether and go to LA instead.
MathExtremist
MathExtremist
Joined: Aug 31, 2010
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September 3rd, 2010 at 2:52:58 PM permalink
Quote: Headlock


I'm not going to say casinos cheat, or would cheat if they had the opportunity, but I think if they could increase the edge on table games or slots just by a fraction of a percent, it would result in millions, not nickels and dimes.



But they can, and it doesn't. Slot games ship with a range of payback levels, and it's trivial for a casino to switch from a 92% game to a 90% game. Not only is that not cheating, it's by design -- and it doesn't necessarily lead to millions more in revenue. In Nevada, you can look at aggregated gaming revenue statistics here:
http://gaming.nv.gov/gaming_revenue_rpt.htm
and there is by no means a perfect correlation (over time) between the reported win % and the reported actual revenues.

Conspiracy theories aside, it's hard for me to imagine that a corporate casino would risk an act which could get their license revoked when there are so many methods for adjusting games that are allowed and accepted by the public and by regulators.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
scudder
scudder
Joined: Aug 30, 2010
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September 3rd, 2010 at 7:37:14 PM permalink
Quote: MathExtremist



[...]there is by no means a perfect correlation (over time) between the reported win % and the reported actual revenues.

Conspiracy theories aside, it's hard for me to imagine that a corporate casino would risk an act which could get their license revoked when there are so many methods for adjusting games that are allowed and accepted by the public and by regulators.



You bring up an excellent point. There are so many factors that affect the bottom line of a casino that have nothing to do with gambling. Utility costs, minimum wage laws, and tax rates, just to name what pops into my head at the moment.
Headlock
Headlock
Joined: Feb 9, 2010
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September 4th, 2010 at 3:42:55 PM permalink
Back on topic.

Four phone calls to the Iowa Racing and Gaming Commission on Wed. and Thurs. No answer and no response to the messages I left. There is one office in Council Bluffs to oversee three casinos in that city. There is no presence in the casinos.

Black Hawk Colorado; I asked a security officer in the Ameristar Casino if there was a Colorado Division of Gaming representative in the casino or in the city of Black Hawk. Well, that was a big mistake, because he was instantly on the defensive, and I'm probably on the blacklist now. The security officer asked why I was asking; I said I was just curious. He had to contact his manager. So I'm waiting for the manager, he never shows. The security officer asks me again what is the nature of my inquiry, I said I'm just curious whether they have a presence in the casino. He then tell me "no, they show up incognito". I visited the Colorado Division of Gaming office in Central City on Saturday afternoon, and they were closed. No notice of office hours on the door.
Headlock
Headlock
Joined: Feb 9, 2010
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September 4th, 2010 at 4:09:59 PM permalink
Can we change the title of that other thread to "The Glenn Beck Phenomenon"? He may be a phenom, but that title just bothers me.

I forgot to mention, I have not seen any RFID chips in use in Black Hawk or Central City, CO.

There is a game called Black Jack Streak. A side bet of $1 to $100 on your streak of winning hands. It pays 3 to 1 for a two win streak, 8 to 1 for a streak of 3, 38 to 1 for a streak of 5. I think the payoff for 4 is 19 to 1, but don't hold me to that. You have to bet the specific number of your streak. For example, if you bet the streak of 2, and end up winning 4 in a row, you only get paid for the 2. Likewise, if you bet the 5, and get only 4 wins in a row, you get nothing.

Math guys, figure that one out!
boymimbo
boymimbo
Joined: Nov 12, 2009
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September 4th, 2010 at 4:16:25 PM permalink
That one's easy: here.
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
chook
chook
Joined: Jul 5, 2010
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September 4th, 2010 at 5:54:17 PM permalink
killed
You can't trust a dog to mind your food.

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