Casinos don't cheat.....prove it.

Quote: cclub79

I try to be diplomatic, but even I realized that he got his info on undercoating from an old Seinfeld episode:

.

Actually, I got it from living in Montana for three years.

Quote: SanchoPanza

Quote: Headlock

I've seen blackjack tables that have sensors in the betting area that "read" the amount bet from the identifiers in the chips, ostensibly to track each players average wager. I imagine they can do the same thing on the craps table.

That would be a sight to see.

I remain skeptical that it would work at craps. I have several times been at a not-quite-full crap table where we, the players, seem to be straddling the conventional positions and the dealers have trouble figuring out just where to stack the place/come/prop bets. Sometimes they stack them just a smidge away from where they usually put them to try to adjust. At dealer rotation, there can be a bunch of confusion about whose bets are whose. Can you imagine the problems that would give in-table sensors?

I just don't think in-table sensors are going to work very effectively unless there are tubes or something at each possible chip position, with all chips being stacked in the exact correct position. Then the dealer still has to decide which tube to use for each player, or crack the whip at the players to get us to stand right where they want us. I think there are just too many potential problems.

Quote: Doc

I remain skeptical that it would work at craps. I have several times been at a not-quite-full crap table where we, the players, seem to be straddling the conventional positions and the dealers have trouble figuring out just where to stack the place/come/prop bets. Sometimes they stack them just a smidge away from where they usually put them to try to adjust. At dealer rotation, there can be a bunch of confusion about whose bets are whose. Can you imagine the problems that would give in-table sensors?

I just don't think in-table sensors are going to work very effectively unless there are tubes or something at each possible chip position, with all chips being stacked in the exact correct position. Then the dealer still has to decide which tube to use for each player, or crack the whip at the players to get us to stand right where they want us. I think there are just too many potential problems.

That would also probably mean the end of the two-finger rule.

Quote: SanchoPanza

That would also probably mean the end of the two-finger rule.

Enough of that dirty talk, you nasty boy! :-o

Quote: Doc

I remain skeptical that it would work at craps. I have several times been at a not-quite-full crap table where we, the players, seem to be straddling the conventional positions and the dealers have trouble figuring out just where to stack the place/come/prop bets. Sometimes they stack them just a smidge away from where they usually put them to try to adjust. At dealer rotation, there can be a bunch of confusion about whose bets are whose. Can you imagine the problems that would give in-table sensors?

I just don't think in-table sensors are going to work very effectively unless there are tubes or something at each possible chip position, with all chips being stacked in the exact correct position. Then the dealer still has to decide which tube to use for each player, or crack the whip at the players to get us to stand right where they want us. I think there are just too many potential problems.

Doc, one of us misinterpreted. I think both SanchoPanza and Nareed were trying to say that in-table sensors do not exist.

Edit: If you would confirm that table sensors exist in blackjack tables, I would appreciate it.

Quote: Headlock

Doc, one of us misinterpreted. I think both SanchoPanza and Nareed were trying to say that in-table sensors do not exist.

Edit: If you would confirm that table sensors exist in blackjack tables, I would appreciate it.

I cannot confirm that they are actively in use. I certainly have never been aware of it at a table where I have played. I think I can confirm that this concept has been actively discussed. It certainly seems plausible as an approach for automated tracking of a player's betting action on a blackjack table or certain other table games where chips are placed in a specific location and different players' chips are not placed close together. But not craps.

Forgive me for interrupting. Regarding sensors in blackjack tables, I've seen that displayed at the Global Gaming Expo. It is called MindPlay. As far as I know, it is still rather buggy, and not in use for real money yet. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. There may be other companies marketing similar products as well. Sorry if this has already been said.

Quote: mlk

In any case, many new car dealers are crooks and thieves.

Quote:

And as far as cheating not happening? Don't make me laugh.

Quote:

You are making a couple of undefended assertions: one, that the primary reason that NPOs want free advertising is so that their CEOs (or whatever they call themselves) can make as much money for themselves as possible; this assertion that the only thing such people care about is lining their own pockets seems a little harsh. Not EVERYONE running a large organization is a cackling, greedy bastard.

You could use almost every quote in this thread regarding casinos to undercut your own argument about why CEO's wouldn't line their own pockets.

BECAUSE
THEY
CAN

You have a varying assortment of industries that you are vicious towards...and apparently they are all ones that you've worked in. Just sayin'

This is quickly becoming tuttigym 2: "This time, it's not just about the Craps Hoax!" So I think I'll just let it be, and hope that the features including personal messaging and user blockage will be in place in the near future.

Quote: cclub79

You could use almost every quote in this thread regarding casinos to undercut your own argument about why CEO's wouldn't line their own pockets.

BECAUSE
THEY
CAN

You have a varying assortment of industries that you are vicious towards...and apparently they are all ones that you've worked in. Just sayin'

This is quickly becoming tuttigym 2: "This time, it's not just about the Craps Hoax!" So I think I'll just let it be, and hope that the features including personal messaging and user blockage will be in place in the near future.

Are you one of those people who thinks that a CEO actually has a personal stake in the company he works for, like someone running a lemonade stand? The parallel is NOT apt. And by the way, the third quote was in reference to the directors of nonprofit organizations---I'll leave you to fathom the distinction.

Quote: Headlock

Doc, one of us misinterpreted. I think both SanchoPanza and Nareed were trying to say that in-table sensors do not exist.

You can make chips with an RFID chip on each, which would identify chips by value and type (regular, non-negotiable, etc). You can certainly put in RFID readers under the table. You could conceivably do it on a craps table, too.

But RFID chips and readers cost money, and integrating them into the system costs money, too. I can't see a casino using them to track card counters, because there are many other ways to spot counters already. It would be easier for the dealer to keep track of the count, especially as he could use any aids he needed, and whether any players raise their bet when the count is high.

BTW spotting counters isn't cheating.