Here We Go Again

Quote: JohnnyQ

Is it a fair point to say that this horrible situation could have been completely avoided if the young girl had done what she was told to do by the teacher and the principal in the first place ?

And then it could have been avoided (again) if she had simply followed the instructions of the Sheriff's deputy, whether she liked those instructions or not ?

I'm not saying the use of excessive force was appropriate. I guess I am saying that the girl made multiple decisions that made this worse for everyone involved, including the Sheriff's deputy who lost his job over it.

Agree. But the thing is we are not perfect and we all live in an imperfect society. In a perfect society, there is no need for police officer or law enforcement agency. And if career in law enforcement does not exist, then would wrestling become a career of choice for many …. ?

The reason and only reason this student’s misbehavior made the national news and is a hot topic of debate is NOT due to the student’s misbehavior, but rather it is 100% due to the POLICE OFFICER’s UNCECESSARY EXCESSIVE FORCE, or the officer’s perceived of applying unnecessary excessive force. So the more appropriate question should not be how should the student behave, but rather how should the officer behave in this situation.

IMO, the student or her non-violence misbehavior is not the cause for the loss of the officer’s job. It is the officer’s unnecessary excessive use of force or unnecessary violent act is the reason and the only reason for the ending of his career. It is a sad ending, and it could have been avoided if the officer had simply followed his department guidelines, applied good judgments and the many trainings that he received in his police training academy.

Quote: beachbumbabs

The teacher could have gotten the rest of the students up and taken them out of the classroom, leaving the principal and the disruptive girl there; a hand to her shoulder would have kept her seated. The class was already disrupted; why not take a walk outside while continuing the lesson, or to the gym, or the library? (not that I know what class it was).

If I were the teacher I would not want the student controlling where I taught the class. Having gone through the credential process, except the student teaching, in California, I learned that in confronting a discipline case let them react to you, not you to them.

Quote:

The LEO could have grabbed her shoulder closest to him and stood her up; there's a large pressure point that can be pinched. Or grab the back collar of whatever shirt she's wearing and lift, again standing her up. After either, any number of come-along holds will get her moving.

I'd be interested to know more about this technique. However, in watching COPS on TV they don't seem to go for these subtle pressure point techniques but the sudden take down. You see it almost every episode.

Quote:

I also liked what someone said above about the whole class taking an "F" for the day unless she put the phone down/handed it over. A little peer pressure is a good thing.

I'm pretty sure that teachers are not generally allowed to punish a whole class for something one student did -- and rightly so.

Quote:

I thought most schools had policies about cell phones having to be left in lockers during classes. They certainly don't belong there. We were under the same restrictions at work, and it wasn't that much of a big deal to leave them in our lockers or mail slots. Make the rule and enforce it. Since I don't have kids, I don't know what current practices are.

That is the policy at my kids' school. They can check for messages during breaks.

Not to defend the police officer, but I'd like to add that none of this would have happened if the student obeyed the authority of the teacher, officer, and anybody else who warned her first. She deserves her fair share of the blame too. I am sure lawyers are banging down her door talking about six or seven-figure lawsuits, which I'm sure will happen. I hope she doesn't come out of it with much.

It is funny that lots of people can see the same video and come to a completely different conclusion. The officer's actions were controlled, appropriate and required. The girl was not slammed to the ground; she was tipped over in her chair and being held while it happened. She was not choked. She was not thrown across the room; it was more like slid across the floor to get her away from the chair/table that she was holding onto.

The vast majority here, of course, have a different opinion. But the girl wasn't hurt.

And so what if there's some discomfort in the exercise of placing a noncompliant person into custody?

Kids today can say the most vile, hurtful things. And yet corporal punishment is anathema in a modern culture? A little sharp pain is a good motivator. Spare the rod spoil the child. Nothing takes a sarcastic smirk off a young face like the woosh of a paddle.

Are our kids better off today than they were generations ago? No. They're more screwed up than ever. Some can't even figure out which bathroom to use.

Regarding any lawsuit that might be brought from this incident: The worst lesson this young girl will ever learn would be to enrich her for her actions.

Quote: Greasyjohn

It is funny that lots of people can see the same video and come to a completely different conclusion. The officer's actions were controlled, appropriate and required. The girl was not slammed to the ground; she was tipped over in her chair and being held while it happened. She was not choked. She was not thrown across the room; it was more like slid across the floor to get her away from the chair/table that she was holding onto.

The vast majority here, of course, have a different opinion. But the girl wasn't hurt.

And so what if there's some discomfort in the exercise of placing a noncompliant person into custody?

Kids today can say the most vile, hurtful things. And yet corporal punishment is anathema in a modern culture? A little sharp pain is a good motivator. Spare the rod spoil the child. Nothing takes a sarcastic smirk off a young face like the woosh of a paddle.

Are our kids better off today than they were generations ago? No. They're more screwed up than ever. Some can't even figure out which bathroom to use.

Regarding any lawsuit that might be brought from this episode: The worst lesson this young girl will ever learn is to enrich her for her actions.

(reply to the bolded area)

I guess they can shop at K Mart and remove all doubt -- I can't believe some corporations are doing this i.e., bathrooms for transgender individuals --- I refuse to ever go into another K mart store -- WTF??

Quote: Greasyjohn

It is funny that lots of people can see the same video and come to a completely different conclusion. The officer's actions were controlled, appropriate and required. The girl was not slammed to the ground; she was tipped over in her chair and being held while it happened. She was not choked. She was not thrown across the room; it was more like slid across the floor to get her away from the chair/table that she was holding onto.

The vast majority here, of course, have a different opinion. But the girl wasn't hurt.

And so what if there's some discomfort in the exercise of placing a noncompliant person into custody?

Kids today can say the most vile, hurtful things. And yet corporal punishment is anathema in a modern culture? A little sharp pain is a good motivator. Spare the rod spoil the child. Nothing takes a sarcastic smirk off a young face like the woosh of a paddle.

Are our kids better off today than they were generations ago? No. They're more screwed up than ever. Some can't even figure out which bathroom to use.

Regarding any lawsuit that might be brought from this incident: The worst lesson this young girl will ever learn would be to enrich her for her actions.

Couching actions with other terms to suit your arguments doesn't become you. So now she wasn't thrown, she was just flung so hard she slid across the floor. You are only thrown if you achieve airborne status for at least four seconds? LOL.

Being grabbed and flung is the same as being thrown. The cop just didn't have the angle to get her airborne. You're starting to sound like a used car salesman now. "It's not used, I would never sell used, it's something different, this one is pre-owned!"

I see that some students protested the officer's firing. If the pictures provided are right, the group was diverse. Of course, they often use "stock" photos from the place where incidents happens, so it could be an incorrect depiction of who was protesting.

Quote: Greasyjohn

It is funny that lots of people can see the same video and come to a completely different conclusion. The officer's actions were controlled, appropriate and required. The girl was not slammed to the ground; she was tipped over in her chair and being held while it happened. She was not choked. She was not thrown across the room; it was more like slid across the floor to get her away from the chair/table that she was holding onto.

The vast majority here, of course, have a different opinion. But the girl wasn't hurt.

And so what if there's some discomfort in the exercise of placing a noncompliant person into custody?

Kids today can say the most vile, hurtful things. And yet corporal punishment is anathema in a modern culture? A little sharp pain is a good motivator. Spare the rod spoil the child. Nothing takes a sarcastic smirk off a young face like the woosh of a paddle.

Are our kids better off today than they were generations ago? No. They're more screwed up than ever. Some can't even figure out which bathroom to use.

Regarding any lawsuit that might be brought from this incident: The worst lesson this young girl will ever learn would be to enrich her for her actions.

Agree, she was not airborne and hurt. And not to make fun of her weight or any woman's weight, perhaps she was not airborne because of her weight. Well, I guess this officer was very lucky because this unfortunate event did not involve an infant or a new born whose weight is much lighter.

I think you forgot to state one thing and it is very important for everyone to know, so let me do it for you on your behalf: The officer DESERVES a medal for his "controlled, appropriate and required" action.

Quote: RonC

I see that some students protested the officer's firing. If the pictures provided are right, the group was diverse. Of course, they often use "stock" photos from the place where incidents happens, so it could be an incorrect depiction of who was protesting.

The officer was defended by one student witness however that student had the officer as his coach.

Ben Fields was also the strength and conditioning coach (sounds like a term for weight-lifting coach) and as such, may have plenty of student supporters who will look the other way in this situation, or even counter-argue. No one wants to lose their favorite coach.

Quote: darkoz

The officer was defended by one student witness however that student had the officer as his coach.

Ben Fields was also the strength and conditioning coach (sounds like a term for weight-lifting coach) and as such, may have plenty of student supporters who will look the other way in this situation, or even counter-argue. No one wants to lose their favorite coach.

Perhaps Ben Fields' supporters aren't just "looking the other way" or don't want to "lose their favorite coach." Could it be that they think his actions were appropriate?

Quote: darkoz

The officer was defended by one student witness however that student had the officer as his coach.

Ben Fields was also the strength and conditioning coach (sounds like a term for weight-lifting coach) and as such, may have plenty of student supporters who will look the other way in this situation, or even counter-argue. No one wants to lose their favorite coach.

Quote: Greasyjohn

Perhaps Ben Field's supporters aren't just "looking the other way" or don't want to "lose their favorite coach." Could it be that they think his actions were appropriate?

I understand that there are "reasons" people are defending the officer. I also think he made a bad choice in handling the situation. I would hope 99% of officers (or more) would use a different approach. Really, though, when you don't obey an officer, an officer who was summoned to handle your disruption of class, then you disrespect his commands, you really put yourself in a danger zone. I don't support the officer but I most assuredly don't support the student, either.

Anyone wonder if the student in question might have been a disruptive force more than just this time?

He didn't use any weapons, and she didn't sustain any serious injuries.

Clearly the cop was ordered to remove her from the room (or maybe school) since obviosuly she was not listening to the teachers.

After she refused to move he subdued her to remove her. I see nothing wrong. I have never been a cop and I don't know the overall demogrpahics of this school, but in some schools I would imagine dealing with rude agressive kids gets stressfull and of they refuse to move there is not an easy answer that is not controversial.

What was his alternative? Tase her? Everyone woul be screaming if he pulled his taser. Pepper spray her? Everyone would be screaming if he sprayed her.

She refused to move and he obviosuly didn't want to use weapons so he had to use his body to remove her... again I see nothing wrong.

Also, who cares about her background, many people have rough backgrounds. It doesn't give you an excuse to do anything you want. How many people know the cops background? Again, nobody, because both sides backgrounds are irrelevant. She behaved badly there, and needed to be removed, that's all that matters.

Quote: RonC

I understand that there are "reasons" people are defending the officer. I also think he made a bad choice in handling the situation. I would hope 99% of officers (or more) would use a different approach. Really, though, when you don't obey an officer, an officer who was summoned to handle your disruption of class, then you disrespect his commands, you really put yourself in a danger zone. I don't support the officer but I most assuredly don't support the student, either.

Anyone wonder if the student in question might have been a disruptive force more than just this time?

Just to coin one of her (Hilary Clinton) terms i.e., "What difference does it make" seriously, in this particular case it won't matter --- this young girl will be rewarded & more than likely live a troubled & short existence.

Daughter calls her dad....daddy this man is harassing me at the tennis courts.... being a good dad he jumps in a car and drives over . daughter says he left going that way ...dad with description goes looking for him.... looking for a middle eastern fella he spots somebody fitting that description and approaches the fella to find out if he is the same guy...... as luck would have it this interaction was caught on camera

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZusGfMYeHo

Quote: coilman

Daughter calls her dad....daddy this man is harassing me at the tennis courts.... being a good dad he jumps in a car and drives over . daughter says he left going that way ...dad with description goes looking for him.... looking for a middle eastern fella he spots somebody fitting that description and approaches the fella to find out if he is the same guy...... as luck would have it this interaction was caught on camera

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZusGfMYeHo

This video didn't open for me.

Quote: Greasyjohn

This video didn't open for me.

You didn't miss ANYTHING BTW read one of the comments (below) posted regarding this bogus attack


Dave Anderson
The victim was a legally blind man not guilty of ANYTHING. Just a hot head corrupt cop looking to beat someone because of some limp excuse. They tried to cover it up too. Until the video was released, the victim was charged. But the video says it all, remember the victim is legally card carrying blind. And fellow officers tried to assist in charging him and coving it up. Police chief took a convenient early retirement. All still get pay checks. Pure police corruption.

Quote: Greasyjohn

It is funny that lots of people can see the same video and come to a completely different conclusion.

Would you treat your kid that way if she were disobeying you? It's a simple question, yes or no.

My kid is raised to know better. Stuff like this is a direct reflection of parenting.

Quote: MathExtremist

Would you treat your kid that way if she were disobeying you? It's a simple question, yes or no.

That is an interesting question that requires some thought. But why give a yes or no answer instead of giving a more in depth answer?

It's hard to compare how someone might react to disciplining a 16-year-old they don't know and their own child that they raised from a baby.
But I would hope that every police officer would keep in mind that every parent wants to feel assured that their child is treated fairly.

So would I treat my child the way the officer did in this situation? I don't know. But I think the officer handled it judiciously. A certain show of force was necessary to overwhelm, subdue and arrest the disruptive student.

Quote: MathExtremist

Would you treat your kid that way if she were disobeying you? It's a simple question, yes or no.

Apparently it's not so simple although it is for me. I would never do anything like that to my child or any child.

I posted earlier in the thread that there would be a strong chance of a parent being arrested and the child being taken away for much less.

Quote: Greasyjohn

Perhaps Ben Fields' supporters aren't just "looking the other way" or don't want to "lose their favorite coach." Could it be that they think his actions were appropriate?

Yes, both are possibilities. Which is why their support has to be taken with a grain of salt. As with any testimony, you must always weigh how much bias a witness may truly have and weigh that against their statements.

Neither of us will really know what is going through their minds. But we have seen in the past people who are in positions of popular power (ie a favorite teacher or a clergyman or celebrity like say Bill Cosby) will have supporters because of their position regardless of their actions.

Wow. Clearly his behavior was inappropriate and wrong. He was immediately fired by the police force without any investigation. There was no "suspension with pay". He could have handled this better. He let anger get the best of him. She did not commit a crime. She refused to leave her classroom and was being belligerent. That was her "crime". The cell phone was already away when the cop took her down.

Do you throw your kids when they're being belligerent to you? If you heard that story from another parent, you would probably think they are nuts.

Learn some interpersonal skills. Negotiate. Learn and execute proper takedown techniques. Five minutes of class disruption via a negotiation in class is nothing. It's not like kids are spending the entire class time every class learning.

There is no reason for this event to be violent. The toss across the room was absolutely uncalled for.

Quote: boymimbo

And Face, this kid was resisting by striking back, but to be fair the guy had lunged on her, that much is clear. As LEO, you don't put yourself in that situation as a professional. There are other ways to subdue her.

Oh, certainly. Again, for I think the fourth time, the cop messed up. I simply derive pleasure from a good comeuppance. Call it a character flaw if you'd like, or call me an animal if it suits you. I just like it. Not saying it's right, or just, or even the most effective. It just pleases me. /shrug.

On the technique, this isn't Cat's Pajama's or the Friday Night Kung Fu hour. Police do use these painful techniques, but not to take control over a person. They might be used when a guy is on the ground and won't give a hand to cuff, for example, but only when the person is already under control. If we steer away from the recent police brutality theme going around the country, we see that 5-0 is just us. It's our fathers / mothers / sisters / brothers, all who risk their lives to keep us safe and do stuff we're either too frail or weak or scared to do. Because of the nature of their job, they must minimize risk whenever possible. That's why you might be removed, detained, and even cuffed in a non-issue. Control is always the first goal. And when control is needed, it isn't done half assed. It's a numbers game. Yeah, the Vulcan neck pinch might work on a teen girl caught unawares. But more than one cop has been shanked or shot by a teen girl who wasn't under control. Physical force like that must be immediate and overwhelming. That does NOT mean you RKO any random person suspected of a crime. But watch any cop show. If they have their hands on you, the minimum of resistance causes an immediate reaction of them to put you to the ground under them as fast as possible.

And speaking of resistance, I again must LOL at some of the opinions here. I have been treated just that way by adults when I was a child. At about 8 I had some fundie prick lift me by the collar off my feet, all because I said "what the hell". I didn't strike out. At 10 I was again lifted by the collar and slammed against a locker, this by a teacher. I didn't lash out. And every single time I was jumped unawares, bar none, my first reaction is always a defensive posture. Arms and shoulders up around my own head. And I'm a guy who has a bit of a violent streak and likes to bang. Her very first reaction upon being touched was to resist (grabbing his hand, not entirely uncommon and maybe even excusable), and not even one second later attempt to strike the man in his face. That is not a normal human reaction.

Were this my kid, no, I'd not be happy. But I'd have slammed his ass myself well before he was a problem as school (/partial sarc). Spare the rod, spoil the child indeed. Had I acted anywhere close to like this, Pops would've railed my ass so hard I still wouldn't have landed yet. And look how productive and well adjusted I turned out to be ;)

Quote: Greasyjohn

But I think the officer handled it judiciously. A certain show of force was necessary to overwhelm, subdue and arrest the disruptive student.

So, if you were the officer, I'd assume you file a suit to be reinstated, back pay, and definitely damage to his character was done, and potential future earnings. And that he should win.

Quote: rxwine

So, if you were the officer, I'd assume you file a suit to be reinstated, back pay, and definitely damage to his character was done, and potential future earnings. And that he should win.

You already know from my past responses that I don't think he should lose his job. But this is a highly charged atmosphere we're living in regarding confrontations between white police officers and blacks, so it's a very difficult situation. I remember the 1992 LA riots that took 53 lives when the Rodney King verdict came in. I didn't agree with the verdict either, but I didn't riot and loot a big screen TV from Fry's.

This incident between the 16-year-old girl and the police officer is nothing when compared to the myriad and senseless black-on-black violence and loss of life.

To be fair, I agree with GJ. He shouldn't lose his job. Reassigned and given different duties for awhile until he is a bit of aware of his situations, surroundings and how to react, absolutely. Reprimanded sure. Loss of pay via suspension, yep.

End of career, no.

People deserve the chance and opportunity to be forgiven. That includes criminals, cops that do wrong, and 16 year old students with behavioural problems. Redemption is a hallmark of American society.

Quote: boymimbo

To be fair, I agree with GJ. He shouldn't lose his job. Reassigned and given different duties for awhile until he is a bit of aware of his situations, surroundings and how to react, absolutely. Reprimanded sure. Loss of pay via suspension, yep.

End of career, no.

People deserve the chance and opportunity to be forgiven. That includes criminals, cops that do wrong, and 16 year old students with behavioural problems. Redemption is a hallmark of American society.

I agree with both GJ and boymimbo about this, but only if his past record is clean. If this is a second or more incident, then I would say he should be fired. That makes it a history of such actions. If his record on patrol had no incidents of a similar nature and he was fine at the school before this, send him back to a patrol unit. Retrain him on proper use of force. This is not a shooting incident--it is a question of the amount of force applied.

I find it a close call even on that. Once the police are called into the matter, what do we expect to happen? For whatever reason, the young person decided to disobey direct commands from her teacher and an administrator. Stop right there. That is the point that all of us enter a different zone. She is in open defiance of the school officials (teacher and anyone else). The school calls in the next level, the police officer. What do we expect at that point? She has put herself in position to be removed forcibly from the classroom. The teacher, administrator, and officer did not do that. They don't have the wrong person. She has now willfully disobeyed the commands of the school.

Then she willfully disobeys the commands of the police officer. The police officer is on duty and his job is to take care of the situation. After that, what is he supposed to do? Stand there and let the defiant person rule the day? Let's just let her take over the classroom and be in charge. He chooses to take her down and detain her. I don't know if I would have made that choice, but SHE subjected herself to arrest. It isn't like he just waltzed into the room and tossed her on the floor. She knows who he is and what his job is. HER choice was to make herself subject to detention or arrest. She made a bad choice.

Many of you have suggested better ways to handle things and some of them sound good. They may be much better. Perhaps training should be based off of this incident. Police are over-involved in schools but that is the community's fault, not the police department. It all starts with the idea that "my" kid just couldn't have done that and the breakdown of basic discipline. Teachers in many schools teach in fear. The police are there because they have been asked to be there, not because they should be there if people behaved like they should.

I'm sorry but this is a community parenting issue, or should I say lack of parenting issue, in the big picture. The community (all of us) has accepted that the teacher and school are always wrong, instead of usually right, and every little piece of discipline is questioned. "My child would never have done something like that".... Now we have campuses covered with cameras (except in the classrooms in most places...the teacher's union wants no part of the teacher's work being recorded for review), metal detectors, police officers, etc.

What has changed? When I was in school, many of the kids had guns on the gun racks in their trucks. They went squirrel hunting and such after school. The same kids got in fights and there was no thought of using those guns against one another. Those guns have been replaced by thugs with guns.

This is progress?

Quote: boymimbo

To be fair, I agree with GJ. He shouldn't lose his job. Reassigned and given different duties for awhile until he is a bit of aware of his situations, surroundings and how to react, absolutely. Reprimanded sure. Loss of pay via suspension, yep.

End of career, no.

People deserve the chance and opportunity to be forgiven. That includes criminals, cops that do wrong, and 16 year old students with behavioural problems. Redemption is a hallmark of American society.

I have purposely stayed out of this discussion but have read each post from the start of the thread, read the latest posts each day since GJ first posted. That was because I have very mixed feelings about the particular incident, and the larger picture that entered the discussion, and often found myself agreeing with both sides in the debate. I wanted some middle ground. Boymimbo found that stance I was searching for.
And RonC has elaborated excellently starting from that point and posted while I was away from the keyboard for a few minutes. Thanks to them both.

Just read on Drudge of millions who try to escape war torn regions, drought stricken areas, and here there is a discussion of something which nobody would even consider of even mentioning at almost all parts of the world.

Quote: Dicenor33

Just read on Drudge of millions who try to escape war torn regions, drought stricken areas, and here there is a discussion of something which nobody would even consider of even mentioning at almost all parts of the world.

So are you suggesting that this forum should discuss world wide events and, mingle in other countries business? IMO America needs to take care of its own people first -- the natural disasters/War issues you mentioned above cannot be solved by discussing them on this forum.

I wrote in a post yesterday, "A certain show of force was necessary to overwhelm, subdue and arrest the disruptive student." The use of force to overwhelm is very crucial. Once you have someone resisting arrest you don't meet their resistance with "just enough force" to get the job done. You apply force to command the situation and overpower the will of the person you're arresting.

The arrest of the girl was just that. It was expeditious and without injury. If less force was used it may have spurred on the girl's combativeness.

You should have named this thread, "Not another here we go again thread". People who truly and repeatedly worry about stuff like this must have a lot of psychological insecurities, plain old mental deficiencies, and even worse stuff going on.

The universe started at a stupid bang, and will progress to an especially stupid infinite big freeze. Somewhere in between people happened along to do some thinking. In our distant future nobody will think about anything anymore because every thinkable thing will have been thought out to death. All the minutia. Which means, with traces of this in our own era, that schools will automatically sell out the police they call, to have public persons removed from private property, because the public already "just knows" what has to be done.

But so, the universe as a whole isn't stupid. How to work yourself around, somehow, while ever progressing? Don't keep wasting your life with the garbage part of it.

Quote: TheGrimReaper13

You should have named this thread, "Not another here we go again thread". People who truly and repeatedly worry about stuff like this must have a lot of psychological insecurities, plain old mental deficiencies, and even worse stuff going on.

The universe started at a stupid bang, and will progress to an especially stupid infinite big freeze. Somewhere in between people happened along to do some thinking. In our distant future nobody will think about anything anymore because every thinkable thing will have been thought out to death. All the minutia. Which means, with traces of this in our own era, that schools will automatically sell out the police they call, to have public persons removed from private property, because the public already "just knows" what has to be done.

But so, the universe as a whole isn't stupid. How to work yourself around, somehow, while ever progressing? Don't keep wasting your life with the garbage part of it.

Kerkebet?

Quote: Greasyjohn

Kerkebet?

You beat me to it!

To those who feel the officer did wrong, please give me the alternative. I don't know the facts, so I'll make up a narrative that is likely close to what happened.

9:00 One hour class begins.
9;05 Teacher notices student talking on cell phone and asks her to stop. Student doesn't.
9:07 Teacher asks student to leave the room. Student doesn't.
9:10 Teacher calls administration. Administrator comes and student does not comply with additional requests to stop disruptive behavior.
9:12 School cop is called, and repeats requests. Student does not comply.

What exactly would you like officer to do? Let's assume that all his verbal attempts at convincing student to leave fall on deal ears. Should he try and physically remove her or not?

Quote: SOOPOO

To those who feel the officer did wrong, please give me the alternative. I don't know the facts, so I'll make up a narrative that is likely close to what happened.

9:00 One hour class begins.
9;05 Teacher notices student talking on cell phone and asks her to stop. Student doesn't.
9:07 Teacher asks student to leave the room. Student doesn't.
9:10 Teacher calls administration. Administrator comes and student does not comply with additional requests to stop disruptive behavior.
9:12 School cop is called, and repeats requests. Student does not comply.

What exactly would you like officer to do? Let's assume that all his verbal attempts at convincing student to leave fall on deal ears. Should he try and physically remove her or not?

Of course not, he should have had the whole class evacuate the classroom so they did not interrupt her phone call, and then he should have served her lunch so she didn't have the get up.

It doesn't look like the officer is exercising firm control -- looks more like he's tossing her.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KYg33kQq-o&feature=player_detailpage#t=29

Quote: TwoFeathersATL

You beat me to it!

Yes, look at the similarities. And how can you write a post like he did and only be a member here for five weeks?

Anyway, as a next challenge to replace the chicken McNugget challenge, we get a volunteer to sit in a desk chair and be tossed around like that. If you survive a 100 times on a classroom floor without injury you win.

Quote: Gandler

Of course not, he should have had the whole class evacuate the classroom so they did not interrupt her phone call, and then he should have served her lunch so she didn't have the get up.

You stated my point better than I did. No one has given a real answer to my question though.....

Quote: SOOPOO

To those who feel the officer did wrong, please give me the alternative. I don't know the facts, so I'll make up a narrative that is likely close to what happened.

9:00 One hour class begins.
9;05 Teacher notices student talking on cell phone and asks her to stop. Student doesn't.
9:07 Teacher asks student to leave the room. Student doesn't.
9:10 Teacher calls administration. Administrator comes and student does not comply with additional requests to stop disruptive behavior.
9:12 School cop is called, and repeats requests. Student does not comply.

What exactly would you like officer to do? Let's assume that all his verbal attempts at convincing student to leave fall on deal ears. Should he try and physically remove her or not?

Your last sentence is, "Should he try and physically remove her or not?" Do you really wonder what the best course of action is? What could you possibly consider besides arresting her? I'd like to know. If it gets to this point and we're still scratching our heads about it our country is really in trouble.

Quote: SOOPOO

You stated my point better than I did. No one has given a real answer to my question though.....

Well, do you think his police chief who fired him bent to political pressure or thought his actions were inappropriate?

Because he fired him, and it wasn't for doing the right thing, so he must of thought there was a different approach or tactic, even under the circumstances.

SOOPOO

What exactly would you like officer to do? Let's assume that all his verbal attempts at convincing student to leave fall on deal ears. Should he try and physically remove her or not?



Maybe, just maybe if he would've gotten behind her (so she couldn't hit him), then remove the desk and student simultaneously.

Quote: HeySlick

SOOPOO

What exactly would you like officer to do? Let's assume that all his verbal attempts at convincing student to leave fall on deal ears. Should he try and physically remove her or not?



Maybe, just maybe if he would've gotten behind her (so she couldn't hit him), then remove the desk and student in one motion.

No. Then you're still stuck with having to remove her from the desk.

She was removed from the desk and arrested, as it should be.

Quote: Greasyjohn

Quote: HeySlick

SOOPOO

What exactly would you like officer to do? Let's assume that all his verbal attempts at convincing student to leave fall on deal ears. Should he try and physically remove her or not?



Maybe, just maybe if he would've gotten behind her (so she couldn't hit him), then remove the desk and student in one motion.

No. Then you're still stuck with having to remove her from the desk.

She was removed from the desk and arrested, as it should be.

I still contend the end results would've been different -- if the PO had removed her and the desk simultaneously. Take her and the desk to the principals office.

Quote: HeySlick

Quote: Greasyjohn

Quote: HeySlick

SOOPOO

What exactly would you like officer to do? Let's assume that all his verbal attempts at convincing student to leave fall on deal ears. Should he try and physically remove her or not?



Maybe, just maybe if he would've gotten behind her (so she couldn't hit him), then remove the desk and student in one motion.

No. Then you're still stuck with having to remove her from the desk.

She was removed from the desk and arrested, as it should be.

I still contend the end results would've been different -- if the PO had removed her and the desk simultaneously. Take her and the desk to the principals office.

Absolutely not. It would require all his strength and both hands to have lifted her and delivered her and the desk to the principal's office. The officer would have been vulnerable to assult. The principal's office isn't where she belonged at this point, it's jail!

I find thinking along the lines you suggest preposterous.

Quote: rxwine

Well, do you think his police chief who fired him bent to political pressure or thought his actions were inappropriate?

Because he fired him, and it wasn't for doing the right thing, so he must of thought there was a different approach or tactic, even under the circumstances.

I have no idea what was in the mind of the police chief. Perhaps he felt HIS job would be in jeopardy if he didn't fire the officer. Perhaps the officer had pissed of the chief before and now the chief had his chance.... Or perhaps, and this is the likeliest.. the officer DID use excessive force... My question is not if you thought the officer used excessive force, but do you think he should use ANY force to remove her?

I hope that you can clearly answer that. I hope BBB and 1BB weigh in as well.....

Quote: Greasyjohn

Your last sentence is, "Should he try and physically remove her or not?" Do you really wonder what the best course of action is? What could you possibly consider besides arresting her? I'd like to know. If it gets to this point and we're still scratching our heads about it our country is really in trouble.

What other country would this happen in?

A problem with 'this country' is, is that we are even discussing some namby pamby alternative to this criminal.

Kudo's to the cop, good job. No, scratch that...great job. Replace the chief. Kick the kid out of any public school permanently and sterilize her before she can make any babies. Throw the mom in jail, or handcuff the two together.

There are plenty of viable solutions, there is something wrong with a society that allows this at public expense.

Maybe approach this problem with out of the box thinking.
How about ending the class, the teacher and students leave the cop and student alone in the room.
How long is she going to sit there bored with the cop as her only company.
Cop cant be busy, school cop. Most days boring.

Vice principals deal with these type of kids all over the country every day.
There are a variety of methods used without using violence.

Huge difference between breaking school rules and criminal behavior.

Quote: SOOPOO

I have no idea what was in the mind of the police chief. Perhaps he felt HIS job would be in jeopardy if he didn't fire the officer. Perhaps the officer had pissed of the chief before and now the chief had his chance.... Or perhaps, and this is the likeliest.. the officer DID use excessive force... My question is not if you thought the officer used excessive force, but do you think he should use ANY force to remove her?

I hope that you can clearly answer that. I hope BBB and 1BB weigh in as well.....

Sure if you need some proof police can actually carry sitting people away who refuse to move if they want to, I can provide some links if you need it. And it's in Chinese controlled Hong Kong, where people are protesting for democracy.

No one has established this 16 year old girl is more dangerous than any protester refusing to move.

Quote: Greasyjohn

Quote: HeySlick

Quote: Greasyjohn

Quote: HeySlick

SOOPOO

What exactly would you like officer to do? Let's assume that all his verbal attempts at convincing student to leave fall on deal ears. Should he try and physically remove her or not?



Maybe, just maybe if he would've gotten behind her (so she couldn't hit him), then remove the desk and student in one motion.

No. Then you're still stuck with having to remove her from the desk.

She was removed from the desk and arrested, as it should be.

I still contend the end results would've been different -- if the PO had removed her and the desk simultaneously. Take her and the desk to the principals office.

Absolutely not. It would require all his strength and both hands to have lifted her and delivered her and the desk to the principal's office. The officer would have been vulnerable to assult. The principal's office isn't where she belonged at this point, it's jail!

I find thinking along the lines you suggest preposterous.

This very strong officer was capable of doing what I suggested -- as I mentioned/suggested he could've wrapped his arms around her shoulders and contained her at the same time -- IMO she would've been restrained and unable to do anything --- I seriously doubt this young girl was strong enough to escape from him before they reached the principals office. Once in the principals office que sera sera.



if some of you think the cop wasn't strong enough to pick up the desk and young girl simultaneously check out this link (s) below


https://www.google.com/search?q=Ben+fields+police+officer+bodybuilder&biw=1093&bih=438&tbm=isch&imgil=OWhoifx4CiymtM%253A%253B5ry-dXrZVOR39M%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fheavy.com%25252Fnews%25252F2015%25252F10%25252Fben-fields-richland-county-south-carolina-sheriff-deputy-spring-valley-high-school-photo-football-coach-bodybuilder-cop-student-desk-video-complaints%25252F&source=iu&pf=m&fir=OWhoifx4CiymtM%253A%252C5ry-dXrZVOR39M%252C_&usg=__yglB05fnELx8eVr5RTT1kVL5gVI%3D&ved=0CEEQyjdqFQoTCPWstLyV8MgCFUPoYwodUNwGDQ&ei=_oM2VvW1CsPQjwPQuJto#imgrc=OWhoifx4CiymtM%3A&usg=__yglB05fnELx8eVr5RTT1kVL5gVI%3D