Greasyjohn
Greasyjohn
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October 29th, 2015 at 3:22:18 PM permalink
Quote: kewlj

I forget just how old you are GJ, but I believe you are of a different generation than I. So perhaps you remember the days when teachers could 'paddle' a student that misbehaved, or in Catholic school the nuns would take a ruler to one's knuckles.

Well those types of things have been gone from 'acceptable' disciplinary actions for decades now. Do you really think we are going to go backwards to where police officers slam a student to the ground, jump on top of them and hogtie them or handcuff them for simple school disciplinary issues like talking on a cell phone or passing a note in class.

GJ, I think you need to step back and differentiate between REAL crimes and REAL criminal behavior and student disciplinary actions. A police officer has no place even being involved in this equation.



I think corporal punishment in school should be bought back. Sorry if you think that's old-fashioned.

And the child wasn't physically bought out of her seat for "talking on a cell phone or passing a note" as you say. She ignored a command from an officer to comply--that's what lead to the handcuffing. (I've seen the video and I don't think excessive force was used. Perhaps there's a better video than the one I saw.)

I don't know who summoned the officer or if he just acted on his own prerogative. He should have left the matter for the school to handle unless he was asked to intervene. Do you have the answer to that?
kewlj
kewlj
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October 29th, 2015 at 3:25:52 PM permalink
Quote: Greasyjohn

I think corporeal punishment in school should be bought back. Sorry if you think that's old-fashioned.

And the child wasn't physically bought out of her seat for "talking on a cell phone or passing a note" as you say. She ignored a command from an officer to comply--that's what lead to the handcuffing. (I've seen the video and I don't think excessive force was used. Perhaps there's a better video than the one I saw.)

I don't know who summoned the officer or if he just acted on his own prerogative. He should have left the matter for the school to handle unless he was asked to intervene. Do you have the answer to that?




Yes, I have an answer to that. The officer DIDN"T BELONG IN THAT SITUATION! That is not his job. That is not what he is there for. If asked, he should have said that is not part of my job and should not have gotten involved. Perhaps then he would still have his job.
JohnnyQ
JohnnyQ
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October 29th, 2015 at 3:27:54 PM permalink
Is it a fair point to say that this horrible situation could have been completely avoided if the young girl had done what she was told to do by the teacher and the principal in the first place ?

And then it could have been avoided (again) if she had simply followed the instructions of the Sheriff's deputy, whether she liked those instructions or not ?

I'm not saying the use of excessive force was appropriate. I guess I am saying that the girl made multiple decisions that made this worse for everyone involved, including the Sheriff's deputy who lost his job over it.
All around me are familiar faces / Worn out places, worn out faces / Bright and early for their daily races / Going nowhere, going nowhere - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdCLnwIkkps
1BB
1BB
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October 29th, 2015 at 3:30:05 PM permalink
As long as megalomaniacs are given a badge and a gun we will have this problem of abuse. It runs rampant not only in law enforcement but in all walks of life. These crimes against defenseless children and innocent adults sicken me.
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
kewlj
kewlj
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October 29th, 2015 at 3:36:37 PM permalink
Your corporal punishment comment speaks for itself. You might want to consider joining the 21st century.

But I'll end with this. Three 10 year olds are playing monopoly at the kitchen table. One is the banker and he cheats. His friend gets mad, goes out to the street and flags down a cop. The officer tells the boy who cheated to give back the monopoly money and play fair. The boy says no. He has now ignored a command from the officer and failed to comply, so the officer throws him to the ground, handcuffs him and arrests him.

You might think this a silly comparison, but it is 100% the same thing. The officer literally had no authority in either case. In the school case, the officer had absolutely no authority in that classroom unless a crime had been committed, which it had not. And that is why he is out of a job.
Joeman
Joeman
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October 29th, 2015 at 3:40:34 PM permalink
According to the wikipedia article the officer was specifically called to the classroom to physically remove the student. Apparently that is one of his duties as a school resource officer.

In this day and age, I would imagine that it is not legal for a teacher or even dean or principal to physically touch a student. It would appear that a school resource officer can.
"Dealer has 'rock'... Pay 'paper!'"
kewlj
kewlj
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October 29th, 2015 at 3:41:11 PM permalink
Quote: JohnnyQ

Is it a fair point to say that this horrible situation could have been completely avoided if the young girl had done what she was told to do by the teacher and the principal in the first place ?



I don't know how old some of you people are. I suspect you have forgotten what happens in high school. I am 15 years removed from high school, but I can still remember that almost every single day, some student didn't do what the teacher and/or principal asked them to do. If that's the criteria, we are going to need to build one hell of a lot of jail space.
petroglyph
petroglyph
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October 29th, 2015 at 3:42:34 PM permalink
Quote: kewlj

Ya know, GJ, I have seen several pro-law enforcement type guests on several of the news channels also state that they officer did nothing wrong, in that he has the authority to take the 'perpetrator' into custody by whatever means.

That is what we pay him for yes. If we want to pay someone 6 figures to go out and talk everyone into submission, then there wouldn't be nearly as many physical requirements. Should we just pay everyone to talk to each other?

Quote:

The problem with that theory as well as your statement is that this was not someone that just committed a crime of robbery or assault or what have you. This was a 16 year old girl in a classroom who's 'crime' was talking on her cell phone. Let's not act like she committed a REAL crime.

Yes she did, among other things she has stolen the time that the other students deserve to spend getting an education. We pay for the school, the teachers, transportation, meals, nurses and everything else. Why does a 16 year old need a cell phone, and especially in class disturbing the entire flow? Every other person including the cops suffer because the "child" has no respect or discipline. Expel her from school, and maybe let her come back if she can behave respectfully and without her phone turned on.

I think America is about 30th in terms of education. Look at the country's that are ahead of us like Japan, or Korea or China. Do you think those kids sit in class disrupting everyone else's chances and time?

We really need to set an example so that the would be detractors understand there won't be a reward for unwanted behavior. I suggest jailing the parent an appropriate amount of time, with a martingale option for repeated waste of taxpayer moneys in school. Start punishing lousy parents. Including lousy step fathers.

Quote:

The appropriate action was not for a 240 lb weight-lifter ex-military sheriff's deputy to physically grab and throw a 16 year old, 120 lb female student to the ground and place her in handcuffs.

The police may have a one size fits all program. I know the state patrol in Montana had a minimum 6 ft. Size matters. The girl should listen. I see the problem with no corporal punishment allowed is people have no respect. My folks spanked when we were young, and didn't have to very often. Pain is an effective deterrent, and society is paying for lack of parenting WITH DISCIPLINE. That is not condoning abuse, just sayin..

Quote:

So, GJ if you think the sheriff's actions were appropriate, we must live in different worlds. What next? Cops can shoot someone for jaywalking?

You can talk that way here, but either in the ghetto or in prison you wouldn't even make eye contact with persons that may rip you to shreds. That is acknowledgement of the reality that when a superior force demands you do something, then you do it. If she would have complied, he wouldn't have tossed her, you think?

She will probably receive an outsized settlement which she probably won't use wisely, IMO.
kewlj
kewlj
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October 29th, 2015 at 3:44:28 PM permalink
Quote: Joeman

According to the wikipedia article the officer was specifically called to the classroom to physically remove the student. Apparently that is one of his duties as a school resource officer.



His supervisor, the sheriff that fired him, stated that this was specifically NOT the duties of the school resource officer. I believe the City council say that as well. You might want to check something a little more official than Wikipedia. For all we know it was greasyjohn who made that Wikipedia entry. :)
RS
RS
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October 29th, 2015 at 3:47:07 PM permalink
She probably deserved it.

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