Here We Go Again

So this female student in a S. Carolina school was disruptive and she resisted being removed from her chair/table by an officer. One of three things should have occurred. 1) She should have been maced. or, 2) She should have been tasered, or 3) The officer should have taken out his club and tapped her on the head (enough to really smart but not enough to hopefully break the skin). After a few hits she would comply!

Am I serious about these three options? Yes. And these three options should be legal without question and any lawsuits regarding their use should be summarily thrown out.

The "feisty" Nancy Grace played the video of the officer removing the girl from her chair/table over and over again on her TV show last night. She mentioned that the girl was "slammed against the floor." I didn't see the officer slamming her. I thought his actions were appropriate. If a person resists arrest the officer has the right to assume that the person might become violent. Bring her to the floor, knee in the back and handcuffs.

One of the greatest problems the black community faces in our nation is their lack of respect for authority and the fact that again and again we see blacks resisting arrest.

And take that case where the city councilman walked out of his residence dressed in a wife-beater and shorts and tried to engage the officers about why his friends/acquaintances were being detained. Officers should not be under any obligation to explain to people at the scene of an arrest why they are taking the actions they are taking. If the councilman is told to not interfere in "a police matter" he should remain quiet and leave the scene immediately if told to do so. He didn't and the officers tried to arrest him and he resisted. He got tasered. Right call!

If the police were expected to explain to friends, family members, etc., why they are taking certain actions to detain or arrest individuals they would be talking or days.

The slogan "Black Lives Matter" should be revised to: "Black Lives Matter. Don't Resist Arrest"

Now before someone accuses me of saying that resisting arrest is grounds for killing the black people let me point out that jumping to this conclusion is absurd. But resisting arrest has led to officers being in fear for their lives and tragedy has ensued.

Quote: Greasyjohn

I thought his actions were appropriate. If a person resists arrest the officer has the right to assume that the person might become violent. Bring her to the floor, knee in the back and handcuffs.

Ya know, GJ, I have seen several pro-law enforcement type guests on several of the news channels also state that they officer did nothing wrong, in that he has the authority to take the 'perpetrator' into custody by whatever means.

The problem with that theory as well as your statement is that this was not someone that just committed a crime of robbery or assault or what have you. This was a 16 year old girl in a classroom who's 'crime' was talking on her cell phone. Let's not act like she committed a REAL crime. This was in no way even a matter for the police, even school police to be handling. School police are there for the protection of students not to handle disciplinary actions.

The appropriate action was not for a 240 lb weight-lifter ex-military sheriff's deputy to physically grab and throw a 16 year old, 120 lb female student to the ground and place her in handcuffs. The 'crime' that this child is accused of should have been punishable by after school detention or perhaps the old 'Bart Simpson punishment' of writing on the chalkboard 100 times "I will not talk on my cell phone during class".

So, GJ if you think the sheriff's actions were appropriate, we must live in different worlds. What next? Cops can shoot someone for jaywalking?

Quote: kewlj

Ya know, GJ, I have seen several pro-law enforcement type guests on several of the news channels also state that they officer did nothing wrong, in that he has the authority to take the 'perpetrator' into custody by whatever means.

The problem with that theory as well as your statement is that this was not someone that just committed a crime of robbery or assault or what have you. This was a 16 year old girl in a classroom who's 'crime' was talking on her cell phone. Let's not act like she committed a REAL crime. This was in no way even a matter for the police, even school police to be handling. School police are there for the protection of students not to handle disciplinary actions.

The appropriate action was not for a 240 lb weight-lifter ex-military sheriff's deputy to physically grab and throw a 16 year old, 120 lb female student to the ground and place her in handcuffs. The 'crime' that this child is accused of should have been punishable by after school detention or perhaps the old 'Bart Simpson punishment' of writing on the chalkboard 100 times "I will not talk on my cell phone during class".

So, GJ if you think the sheriff's actions were appropriate, we must live in different worlds. What next? Cops can shoot someone for jaywalking?

The girl would not stop being disruptive. She would not leave the classroom. She was ordered to by an officer. She did not comply. She resisted arrest. The girl showed a lack of respect for authority while she was clearly in the wrong. Let's no leap to shooting jaywalkers just yet.

Based on the video (from 2 angles) and the eyewitness report I heard, my inclination is that the force was excessive to the situation to a huge degree. Part of the consideration is what happened before the video, which is reported to be non-violent and low on the aggression/emotional content. Another part is that, even though this cop had done similar stuff at least twice before, those who do have all the facts (which I don't) fired him instead of standing behind his actions. I don't doubt there's more to come out about it.

I think officers are taught a lot of different methods for subduing, restraining, and controlling people, and this officer had better options.

I don't know anything about the councilman.

Quote: Greasyjohn

One of the greatest problems the black community faces in our nation is their lack of respect for authority and the fact that again and again we see blacks resisting arrest.

Whether you realize it or not, this comment borders on racism, as you are categorizing a who race of people.

You might consider substituting black community with 'younger generation' as I see this attitude among "youts" (<my cousin vinny reference) of all races.

But if you want to stick with your original statement, I have two responses. First, Police have abused their authority time and time again. I don't know if it has become more prevalent over the last 20 year or we just see it more because of increases in video camera and now cell phones. Nearly every day on the news we some an officer somewhere abusing their authority. I am by no means saying all cops are bad. Like everything else, it is a few bad apples. But those actions of a few bad apples have caused some to not respect the profession as we should. Respect is something that is earned after all.

Secondly, While I am a fair-skinned Caucasian boy of European heritage, it is very clear to me that blacks have endured unfair treatment for decades. There is undeniable data on this. Black traffic stops and arrests are disproportionately higher by 10 fold, as compared to population percentage. THAT is racial profiling! I think if you or I were that race being profiled, you would not tend to not respect the authorities doing it as well.

I can't help but think you have never been on the other side of it. Imagine you are counting cards. The police show up and ask them if you would follow them to the back room please. You say I'm just trying to leave, I haven't done anything wrong, and as you take one more step you get bodyslammed to the ground, charged with resisting arrest, assaulting a police officer, creating a public disturbance, and whatever other felonies they can think of to jam you up for a while. Think that hasn't happened? Plenty of lawsuits on public record that show otherwise. How about the family that got bodyslammed at Harrah's AC for not leaving fast enough? I guess once someone says something and you don't comply immediately, any level of force short of deadly should be legal?

It's all about proportional use of force. LOL at taser. What a sadist you are.

-Come with me.
No.

*zaps her, she falls to the ground in a trembling mass and shits herself*

What's the minimum age you would say using a taser in this situation is wrong? Would you use a taser on a 15 year old? A 10 year old? A five year old?

Quote: Greasyjohn

The girl would not stop being disruptive. She would not leave the classroom. She was ordered to by an officer. She did not comply. She resisted arrest. The girl showed a lack of respect for authority while she was clearly in the wrong. Let's no leap to shooting jaywalkers just yet.

The officer did not belong in the classroom or being involved in this type of situation. It is not his job. His job is to break up fights and protect the students against outside forces. Disciplinary matters are supposed to be handles the same way they have been for decades, by the school. If the teacher can't handle the student they call the principal, who may then call the parent.

We do not treat students talking on cell phones during class, even disrupting that class the same way we handle violent criminals.

Quote: kewlj

The officer did not belong in the classroom or being involved in this type of situation. It is not his job. His job is to break up fights and protect the students against outside forces. Disciplinary matters are supposed to be handles the same way they have been for decades, by the school. If the teacher can't handle the student they call the principal, who may then call the parent.

We do not treat students talking on cell phones during class, even disrupting that class the same way we handle violent criminals.

I don't have all the facts. But if a student is talking on her phone and is asked by the teacher to stop and she doesn't I don't feel that calling the principal and if that doesn't work calling the parent should be the course of action. So this 16-year-old can disrupt the class for an hour until the teacher-principal-parent scenario is attempted? Coddle this kind of selfish self-indulgence? No.

I forget just how old you are GJ, but I believe you are of a different generation than I. So perhaps you remember the days when teachers could 'paddle' a student that misbehaved, or in Catholic school the nuns would take a ruler to one's knuckles.

Well those types of things have been gone from 'acceptable' disciplinary actions for decades now. Do you really think we are going to go backwards to where police officers slam a student to the ground, jump on top of them and hogtie them or handcuff them for simple school disciplinary issues like talking on a cell phone or passing a note in class.

GJ, I think you need to step back and differentiate between REAL crimes and REAL criminal behavior and student disciplinary actions. A police officer has no place even being involved in this equation.

A 16 year old, 10th grade girl talking on her cell phone during class. An 11 year old, 5th grader passing a note in Social Studies. A kindergarden student refusing to take his nap after milk and cookies. Throw them to the ground, handcuff them, lock them up and throw away the key. Apparently that's GreasyJohn's world. :/

Ya know GJ, this school girl may have had a SERIOUS issue. Perhaps her date to this weekend's Halloween dance just dumped her and her life was ruined. That's what life is to a 16 year old. We don't arrest them and put them in jail for that.