Having to tip dealers is ridiculous
Quote: Mission146What about a VISA Gift Card, would you be allowed to take one of those?
I don't believe so, and we wouldn't be able to put it in our toke box - all our tokes have to be converted to chips, and the origin of those chips has to be cash. So if you can't get cash off that gift card, I don't think we can take it.
Quote: Mission146What about a VISA Gift Card, would you be allowed to take one of those?
You're asking an employee who probably makes $35,000+ plus benefits (worth close to $10,000 probably) to risk their job for a gift card to skirt the system. It's not worth risking your job for. Any type of gratuity outside of the tip pool is risking their job.
hwccdealer sounds like a good dealer and good person. I commend you hwccdealer.
ZCore13
Quote: Zcore13You're asking an employee who probably makes $35,000+ plus benefits (worth close to $10,000 probably) to risk their job for a gift card to skirt the system. It's not worth risking your job for. Any type of gratuity outside of the tip pool is risking their job.
hwccdealer sounds like a good dealer and good person. I commend you hwccdealer.
ZCore13
Why, thank you. I try. And yes, if I were to accept a gift card outside the normal tipping scheme, I would probably be in big trouble. And if I accepted a gift card for the crew, I'd probably look really stupid.
Quote: hwccdealerQuote: KeyserSozeDifferent days, different shifts. I mix it up. But I don't play graveyard too much any more- not enough tables open. I'm a wonger.
All dealers think they know a thing or two about basic strategy. I don't know who you are, so maybe you are a needle in the haystack.
I'll estimate 75% of the dealers give UNSOLICITED advice constantly. "The book says [insert wrong advice here]."
Between the advice and the nonstop voicing of the hand totals with each card dealt, it's difficult to find a game with a decent pace. I figured the pit was instructing the dealers to do these things.....now I'm really baffled.
hwcc is a very strange place.
I weasel out of giving strategy. My usual excuse is, "If I tell you to do something and you do it and lose, you won't like me." If people are giving unsolicited advice, I am not aware of it, and it may be newer dealers who think they're hot stuff and don't know squat.
That said, I know to hit 16 against a 7 or more, to go 2x on any soft hand except A9 against a 6, and to split 9s except against an ace, face, or 7. But would I tell people to do that? Hell no. I'm not their daddy. If they want to double down on a hard 19 or hit a soft 20 against a 5 (both of which I've seen done, and both of which ended badly,) far be it from me to tell people that's stupid.
Are you surprised when a player uses the proper H17 strategy? It can't be all that common especially when surrender is offered.
Quote: Zcore13You're asking an employee who probably makes $35,000+ plus benefits (worth close to $10,000 probably) to risk their job for a gift card to skirt the system. It's not worth risking your job for. Any type of gratuity outside of the tip pool is risking their job.
hwccdealer sounds like a good dealer and good person. I commend you hwccdealer.
ZCore13
No, no, please don't misunderstand my post. I'm not asking anyone to do anything, I just wondered if they were allowed to take a gift/toke other than chips. It just seems that, even in those situations where tips are pooled, a player should be able to express appreciation for a preferred dealer in some other way. I absolutely would not encourage and do not want anyone to attempt to skirt the rules and risk losing a good job.
Quote: Mission146No, no, please don't misunderstand my post. I'm not asking anyone to do anything, I just wondered if they were allowed to take a gift/toke other than chips. It just seems that, even in those situations where tips are pooled, a player should be able to express appreciation for a preferred dealer in some other way. I absolutely would not encourage and do not want anyone to attempt to skirt the rules and risk losing a good job.
The governing body (gaming commission) sometimes says yay/nay, but for the most part the company itself has a policy in place.
I can't even begin to count the number of places I've been that allow "gifting", albeit within limits.
Snacks from the deli bought with my comps, cigarettes, Christmas gifts, birthdays, anniverseries, etc.
I mentioned this way earlier in this thread; one night I took an entire dice crew out for dinner after obtaining reassurance from the shift manager that no corporate policy was being violated.
Most places will remind their employees periodically (especially near holiday season) what is and is not allowed.
Quote: 1BBQuote: hwccdealerQuote: KeyserSozeDifferent days, different shifts. I mix it up. But I don't play graveyard too much any more- not enough tables open. I'm a wonger.
All dealers think they know a thing or two about basic strategy. I don't know who you are, so maybe you are a needle in the haystack.
I'll estimate 75% of the dealers give UNSOLICITED advice constantly. "The book says [insert wrong advice here]."
Between the advice and the nonstop voicing of the hand totals with each card dealt, it's difficult to find a game with a decent pace. I figured the pit was instructing the dealers to do these things.....now I'm really baffled.
hwcc is a very strange place.
I weasel out of giving strategy. My usual excuse is, "If I tell you to do something and you do it and lose, you won't like me." If people are giving unsolicited advice, I am not aware of it, and it may be newer dealers who think they're hot stuff and don't know squat.
That said, I know to hit 16 against a 7 or more, to go 2x on any soft hand except A9 against a 6, and to split 9s except against an ace, face, or 7. But would I tell people to do that? Hell no. I'm not their daddy. If they want to double down on a hard 19 or hit a soft 20 against a 5 (both of which I've seen done, and both of which ended badly,) far be it from me to tell people that's stupid.
Are you surprised when a player uses the proper H17 strategy? It can't be all that common especially when surrender is offered.
I am surprised to see people consistently follow it. Most people usually make some small strategy error, and a number of my players are downright moronic. Most people do something like, say, stand on 12 against a 2 or won't ever hit 16. Some people don't know how to double soft hands, and some stand on soft 17. But I don't say anything no matter what. It's their money to lose, although in some cases it's my money they lose.
Quote: wudgedThey make a dumb play while they have a tip bet out for him.
Dealers don't have that problem when I'm playing.
I don't make dumb plays. Don't tip either.
Quote: petroglyphHow do they lose your money?
What wudged said. If they bet for me and then make a ridiculous play and lose it, especially when a right move would have won, they gave my money to the house.
Say what you will about the logic or ethics of tipping dealers; it's how we make out money.
Quote: hwccdealerWhat wudged said. If they bet for me and then make a ridiculous play and lose it, especially when a right move would have won, they gave my money to the house.
Say what you will about the logic or ethics of tipping dealers; it's how we make out money.
It's not your money until the resolution of the round. Your perception is that it has been wagered for you therefore it is yours. This is not the case. If I place a wager for you and we push I can choose to reclaim the wager and not replace it for you again. In short the tokes aren't yours until you hear them hit the bottom of the your toke box.
Quote: hwccdealer
I am surprised to see people consistently follow it. Most people usually make some small strategy error, and a number of my players are downright moronic. Most people do something like, say, stand on 12 against a 2 or won't ever hit 16. Some people don't know how to double soft hands, and some stand on soft 17. But I don't say anything no matter what. It's their money to lose, although in some cases it's my money they lose.
You do realize that most of the examples you have given are only the correct play according to basic strategy. Most of these plays like standing 12 vs 2, standing 16 vs 10,9,8, even splitting 99 vs 7, become the correct play at certain times depending on the remaining makeup of the cards and sometimes while technically not the correct play, certain plays are done for a reason.
Take the case of 16 vs 10. Basic strategy says to hit. Most people know the index number for correctly playing this hand is very close to zero. Basically if the count is zero or negative, the mathematically correct play is to hit, while if the count is positive, the correct play is to stand.
However, because how a player plays 16 vs 10 is one of the top indicators of a counter, especially playing it differently at different times, many counters play this hand according to 'counter's basic strategy', which is to always stand. This way 80% of the time (more if you wong out aggressively) you are playing the hand correctly, and you are playing it correctly ALL the time when your bigger bets are out. And by always playing the hand the same way, you have taken this one big tool for identifying counters away from the pit/surveillance.
So before you decide to tell people that they are playing a hand wrong, maybe you should he sure that they really are. :-)
Quote: hwccdealerAt my casino, the dealer hits soft 17, the shoe is 8 decks, and there is DAS. These are all accurate for that type of game. Look it up.
According to your previous comment:
Quote: hwccdealerThat said, I know to hit 16 against a 7 or more, to go 2x on any soft hand except A9 against a 6, and to split 9s except against an ace, face, or 7. But would I tell people to do that? Hell no. I'm not their daddy. If they want to double down on a hard 19 or hit a soft 20 against a 5 (both of which I've seen done, and both of which ended badly,) far be it from me to tell people that's stupid.
Specifically:
"to go 2x on any soft hand except A9 against a 6"
Your comment suggests proper strategy if I have an A9 v a 2 is to double, along with EVERY other soft hand I get save one.
That is not what this guys basic strategy card says:
https://wizardofodds.com/games/blackjack/strategy/calculator/
In fact if forced to make a decision, I would prefer to double A9 v 6 as opposed to A9 v 2, as you suggest I do.
Good luck dealing, I thank you for keeping your yapper shut while doing so.
Quote: IbeatyouracesHe's talking specifically about a dealer 6 upcard only. In this case you double every soft hand excluding A,9 and A,10 in a H17 game.
Right. The wording was a little tricky but he is correct.
Quote: Maverick17According to your previous comment:
Specifically:
"to go 2x on any soft hand except A9 against a 6"
Your comment suggests proper strategy if I have an A9 v a 2 is to double, along with EVERY other soft hand I get save one.
That is not what this guys basic strategy card says:
https://wizardofodds.com/games/blackjack/strategy/calculator/
In fact if forced to make a decision, I would prefer to double A9 v 6 as opposed to A9 v 2, as you suggest I do.
Good luck dealing, I thank you for keeping your yapper shut while doing so.
What Ibeatyouraces said. Go 2x against a 6 if you have A-anything except 9 or 10. I wouldn't go 2x against anything else with A8, for example.
The wording was a bit bumbled, yes, but the message when read as Ibeatyouraces did, is correct.
And frankly, if you do anything with A9 other than wave it off, you are either a ploppy or crazy.
Quote: kewljYou do realize that most of the examples you have given are only the correct play according to basic strategy. Most of these plays like standing 12 vs 2, standing 16 vs 10,9,8, even splitting 99 vs 7, become the correct play at certain times depending on the remaining makeup of the cards and sometimes while technically not the correct play, certain plays are done for a reason.
Take the case of 16 vs 10. Basic strategy says to hit. Most people know the index number for correctly playing this hand is very close to zero. Basically if the count is zero or negative, the mathematically correct play is to hit, while if the count is positive, the correct play is to stand.
However, because how a player plays 16 vs 10 is one of the top indicators of a counter, especially playing it differently at different times, many counters play this hand according to 'counter's basic strategy', which is to always stand. This way 80% of the time (more if you wong out aggressively) you are playing the hand correctly, and you are playing it correctly ALL the time when your bigger bets are out. And by always playing the hand the same way, you have taken this one big tool for identifying counters away from the pit/surveillance.
So before you decide to tell people that they are playing a hand wrong, maybe you should he sure that they really are. :-)
Our floor supervisors are allowed to give advice and always do so according to basic strategy. So while standing on 16 against a 10 may work best for a counter, that's not the people we're advising. And if a person is counting cards right, they probably don't need a dealer of supervisor's advice anyway. People who seek advice are usually civilians at best.
Quote: hwccdealerWhat Ibeatyouraces said. Go 2x against a 6 if you have A-anything except 9 or 10. I wouldn't go 2x against anything else with A8, for example.
The wording was a bit bumbled, yes, but the message when read as Ibeatyouraces did, is correct.
And frankly, if you do anything with A9 other than wave it off, you are either a ploppy or crazy.
Who you callin' crazy? :-) :-)
Quote: hwccdealerOur floor supervisors are allowed to give advice and always do so according to basic strategy. So while standing on 16 against a 10 may work best for a counter, that's not the people we're advising. And if a person is counting cards right, they probably don't need a dealer of supervisor's advice anyway. People who seek advice are usually civilians at best.
Too bad the strategy advice they give is for a single-deck S17 game.
A while back, I asked to see one of the floor's strategy cards after he consulted it and gave bad advice. I acted clueless and said "Hey, I should get one of those things, can I see it?"
Quote: BuzzardIn Colorado a dealer can not give advice until the hand is over> Good Rule.
That is a good rule. hwccdealer mentions that the dealers are not allowed to give advice either, but I play there often, and the dealers are always giving advice (wrong advice), and its usually unsolicited.
Not a big deal, doesn't affect my game. But it does slow the game down.
Quote: KeyserSozeThat is a good rule. hwccdealer mentions that the dealers are not allowed to give advice either, but I play there often, and the dealers are always giving advice (wrong advice), and its usually unsolicited.
Not a big deal, doesn't affect my game. But it does slow the game down.
Boy KeyserSoze that is an art not letting the incessant chatter from dealer's get to you.
I had one yesterday, [craps] that finally wore me down and I had to leave. The aura of negativity was palpable, tips didn't help, betting and hitting points didn't help. What was a good game just fell off the cliff with this guy. The other dealers probably don't realize what this dealer is costing them.
Any tips [no pun] on tuning this kind of bs out?
Quote: KeyserSozeThat is a good rule. hwccdealer mentions that the dealers are not allowed to give advice either, but I play there often, and the dealers are always giving advice (wrong advice), and its usually unsolicited.
Not a big deal, doesn't affect my game. But it does slow the game down.
Maybe people are trained differently now (or poorly, from what I hear.) The newer dealers end up on swing shift (8pm-4am.) The more experienced dealers know to go to grave shift (right after swing) and know not to give advice. Besides, in my experience, any time I tell someone how to play a hand, no matter how by-the-book my advice is, it never works out on that specific hand, so I save the advice-giving for the rare times when I'm on the other side of the table.
Quote: IbeatyouracesOr a counter.
The deck would have to be blazing hot to consider doing anything other than stand on 20 in that situation...y'know, if you know what you're doing. And I've seen my fair share of stupid.
If I understand you correctly, a civilian stands on A9. A counter doubles if the deck is super-hot and the dealer's probably going to bust. But the guy I saw last week had an A9 against a 5 and stupidly hit it - and ended up busting because he's an idiot.And in my entire time of dealing, he's the only one I've ever seen do anything with A9 other than take the easy 20.
Quote: hwccdealerThe deck would have to be blazing hot to consider doing anything other than stand on 20 in that situation...y'know, if you know what you're doing. And I've seen my fair share of stupid.
If I understand you correctly, a civilian stands on A9. A counter doubles if the deck is super-hot and the dealer's probably going to bust. But the guy I saw last week had an A9 against a 5 and stupidly hit it - and ended up busting because he's an idiot.And in my entire time of dealing, he's the only one I've ever seen do anything with A9 other than take the easy 20.
Using Hi-Lo, the index for doubling A,9 versus a 5 or 6 is the same as splitting 10s against those cards, +4 vs 6 and +5 vs 5. Other counts, obviously would be different. With Hi Opt II it's +7 and +10 for the A,9 double against those cards.
An added benefit is that you may well drive the other players away from the table leaving that juicy count all to yourself. A little caution here. You don't make these plays simply because the count is high. You must evaluate all table conditions lest you be driven away yourself - from all of the tables.
He tipped the dealer $5 and on the next
spin the dealer took his bet accidentally, and
put it back right away. The player went nuts,
screaming that the dealer was a thief over
and over and he wanted his tip back from
a few minutes ago. The pit explained they
can't refund tips, so the guy started stuffing
his 100+ roulette chips in his pockets to
leave the table and they got into a fight about
that. All in all it was very entertaining.
Why do you shout the toke for others to hear? Is this so other players get the hint about tipping? This is a form of chip hustling to me.Quote: hwccdealerI always thank the player and shout the toke for others to hear.
I absolutely hate when a dealer gets a tip from a player while other players are not tipping, so the dealer purposely thanks them in such a way to shame the non tipping players. Pathetic
Quote: EvenBobSaw a player try and get his tip back today.
The player should adopt my tipping philosophy; wouldn't have that problem.
I don't like dealers who expect tips or have a stick up their ass. I cant stand some dealers and I wont tip them.Quote: KeyserSozeThe player should adopt my tipping philosophy; wouldn't have that problem.
With that being said, I think your no tipping dealers policy is a mistake and you may not realize it.
Some dealers are deserving and I tip more then I should.
+10Quote: AxelWolfI don't like dealers who expect tips or have a stick up their ass. I cant stand some dealers and I wont tip them.
With that being said, I think your no tipping dealers policy is a mistake and you may not realize it.
Some dealers are deserving and I tip more then I should.
Totally agree. Dealers at locals casinos are generally MUCH nicer than dealers at Strip casinos, and I tip them generously because of this. I always appreciate nice people who want to help players have a good time. (Can't stand the a-holes at Caesars, Bellagio, the Wynn, etc.)
Quote: Beethoven9th+10
Totally agree. Dealers at locals casinos are generally MUCH nicer than dealers at Strip casinos, and I tip them generously because of this. I always appreciate nice people who want to help players have a good time. (Can't stand the a-holes at Caesars, Bellagio, the Wynn, etc.)
+11
Last night I cut the cards and the shoe was horrible, and I mean really horrible. Everyone at the table lost a bunch. I got lucky and hit the triple match for $125 so I almost broke even. So anyways, I was dealt the cut card and 2 asian people at the table got really angry that I got it again. When I cut I said, "I am going to put it in the same place as last time. No way can it be bad 2 times in a row." Now obviously I said this as a joke but they both stormed off. The dealer was laughing so hard they he almost had to wipe tears from his eyes. Anyways, the entire shoe he made a joke about them leaving. It was a very entertaining shoe and I tipped him about $40. I was using the method of $1 on top of my stack and every win he got 1 and I left the other on the stack. I won almost every hand the entire shoe.
Also for the 1st time in my life I tipped 2 players that came to the table late. Another guy at the table asked them to wait till the next shoe because it was going so well. Now I know them sitting out had nothing to do with me winning but I do know if they played my cards would have been different.
I also tipped the dealer $10 on one hand because I had $80 dollars up and was dealt 83, I bribed him $10 for a winning hand. He made it interesting my giving me an ace but I won and he got his $10.
Well all of that rambling to just say, I hate tipping because I am winning but I love tipping a great dealer when I am winning.
Quote: anonimussI tip the dealer when it serves my purpose. It doesn't serve my purpose unless I'm going to make more money than I normally would because of the tip.
This is what it is all about... Just like a good server in a restaurant, if the service is good tip accordingly. In the case of craps if the dealer or dealers are helping you with odds and payouts etc. Tip them. Or, if they are pleasant, happy, enjoying their job and truly helping. tip them. (Only if you win)
Quote: sabreIf you're going to get grief for tipping $5 and hour, then why not tip $0. Costs less, accomplishes the same thing.
I tip $1 a pot I win at poker. I win about 7% of the hands I play at a 10 handed table. At 35 hands an hour, that means I'm tipping on average about $2/hr. You know what I get for that? Gratitude.
Try tipping $2/hr at the blackjack table and see what you get.
At 35 hands an hour, and every player just tipped a $1 per hand equals $35/hr a great wage for a dealer..
-10 for even mentioning tipping $1 perhandQuote: allinriverkingAt 35 hands an hour, and every player just tipped a $1 per hand equals $35/hr a great wage for a dealer..
Who the hell is going to tip $1 per hand that's just stupid.
Quote: AxelWolf-10 for even mentioning tipping $1 perhand
Who the hell is going to tip $1 per hand that's just stupid.
I think he meant $1 per pot won.
Oh well I do that anyways, Unless the dealer pisses me off for some reason, even then I may do it anyways.Quote: JimRockfordI think he meant $1 per pot won.
I used to play poker at the Palms, They had a few older Asian female dealers who always messed up and made bad calls that cost me money. They always thought they were right about everything and gave me attitude. I loved to stiff them, especially on huge pots.
I thought we were talking about BJ dealers.
I Find that some seasoned craps players love to tip the crew. Mainly because they want respect. They love it when the crew thinks they are good craps players. I think the term, good craps player is an oxymoron. To me, its like someone saying, they are a good toilet cleaner. Unless they are REALLY AP'ing craps, due to some extras being given out.Quote: CrapsGeniousas a craps fire bet player, I don't tip but instead I place an additional $1.00 chip for the crew on the fire bet resulting in a possible $1000.00 win for the crew.
There is no question that some degree of that still remains. It is like having Benny Binion greet you by name. Or having him approve your marker. ..... You've made it!!!Quote: AxelWolfI Find that some seasoned craps players love to tip the crew. Mainly because they want respect. They love it when the crew thinks they are good craps players.
I think however that those who do tip, should indeed tip in the beginning so whatever they are looking for ... they are more likely to get it.
I've rarely walked away from a craps table without tipping. Its just not right.
Quote: Beethoven9th
Dealers at locals casinos are generally MUCH nicer than dealers at Strip casinos, and I tip them generously because of this. I always appreciate nice people who want to help players have a good time. (Can't stand the a-holes at Caesars, Bellagio, the Wynn, etc.)
I'm not looking for a NICE dealer. And I'm not there to have a good time. I play for money.
Quote: KeyserSozeI'm not looking for a NICE dealer. And I'm not there to have a good time. I play for money.
I think that is a big distinction in this thread. If people are playing like myself, where it is 100% entertainment with hopes of making money then having a good dealer is key to having fun. If people are there strictly to make money then there is no reason to tip since that will cut into their earnings. I think people who are there to make money couldn't care less about the personality of the dealer. Now maybe some of those players will tip if they had a big win or if a dealer was way above average.
Quote: EvenBob... on the next
spin the dealer took his bet accidentally, and
put it back right away. The player went nuts.
Why did he go nuts? If the dealer fixed the mistake, I would think that the player got the good service that he deserved. Isn't the goal of the tip?
Am I missing something?
...but hopefully you can appreciate nice people, whether it's inside or outside of the casino.Quote: KeyserSozeI'm not looking for a NICE dealer.
+1Quote: GWAEIf people are playing like myself, where it is 100% entertainment with hopes of making money then having a good dealer is key to having fun.
