Having to tip dealers is ridiculous

Quote: Buzzard

A few probably steal her tip from another table on the way out the door too !

When I was about 7 years old my father and I, after waiting about an hour for our bill, just got up and left.......

I still feel bad but I have been trying to make up for it ever since!

Cheapest Hollywood person ever was Yul Brenner. He
was famous for never picking up a check or a bar bill.
He would get invited to stay at somebodies house for
a weekend and stay two weeks. And he was a millionaire.

Clark Gable was the same way. He came from a dirt
poor background and was a grease monkey when he
was discovered. He was loathe to spend money on
anything and always believed he was two steps
from the poorhouse. He was a terrible penny pincher
and it made him miserable.

Mary Steenbergen was married to Malcolm McDowell
for 10 years and divorced him because he was a
cheapskate and never tipped, among other things. He
was horribly stingy and wouldn't let her spend money
on anything. They fought about it so much she finally
kicked him out.

I have a lot to say about the issue, but most has already been said, so I will add this to discussion.

Some people say that tipping dealers is just costly to the player. That player is only losing money. I don't think so. A player that tips, (more evident in big tippers) will generally receive not only outstanding service, but benefit of the doubt on rulings.

Anecdotal evidence #1. For those that don't know, it is customary to toke 1$ per hand in live poker. I played at a table where the maximum rake was 5$ per hand. One player won three decent sized pots in a row, stiffed each. On the third hand (I was sitting across from the dealer) I noticed that two red cheques stuck together when she went to her rake spot. The rake at this casino does not go into a drop but it goes into the rack. As she going to put it in the rack, she notices the extra cheque. I'm only one paying attention. I see that she notices it. She just adds it to her rack.. Had that guy tipped 1$ per hand.. or even 1$ after his second win, he would have got 5$ he won. Instead, him saving money by not tipping cost him 2-3$ that he actually won (if he was tipping 1$ per winning hand)

Anecdotal evidence #2. I over-tip for a lot of my services. I was shooting craps and was on a pretty good heater. I was up pretty big, my point was 6. I had a lot of odds, and pretty heavy on the hardways. I gave the crew a 5$ hard 6 bet (along with other crew bets/tips I was giving from the night). When I shoot, I hold the dice with an unorthodox grip (be hard to explain).. while I was getting the dice ready in my hand, both dice slipped out of my hand. I actually said "Oooooopps" one dice landed two inches away from my odds bet, the other landed 6 inches away from that one. 3-3 hard Six. Would I have gotten the call if I didn't tip? Don't think so. Would have gotten the "must hit back wall".. Lets say it came up 1-3.. prolly would have just been a no-roll. If it came up 7, would they rule it a 7-out? Can't say for sure, but highly doubt it. Conversely... if I was a stiff, would that have been a 7 out?

As for better service... any disagreement, a George is more likely to get favorable ruling. People are going to cater more to George's than stiffs.

Quote: minnesotajoe

a George is more likely to get favorable ruling. People are going to cater more to George's than stiffs.

Maybe. But in the dealer breakroom, both are
treated with equal disdain. The George is a
fool, and the stiff is a jerk. Read the dealer
forums. Tip who you like, and screw the rest.

Quote: mcallister3200

A coworker of mine yesterday was bitching about a player tipping only $50 when he won over 1500. I completely ignored him, as that is overly generous from my perspective and is about 80% of what we average a day.

So you are saying you average ~~$60 tips per day? I'm quite surprised as I would have guessed north of $100 but have nothing to base that on.

Throughout this forum dealers freely admit that they don't treat all players equally and in some cases go out of their way to mistreat non tippers. Other dealers admit that they cheat on behalf of tippers. Just this week I saw three blatant examples of dealer cheating at the blackjack table, one of which was for my benefit in the expectation of a tip. I'm not going to have anything to do with even the slightest hint of collusion and I am going to leave the table as soon as the count goes down.

Dealers, why not do the job you were hired to do, stop cheating the players and your employer and let the tips fall where they may? You generally can't shame someone into tipping and potential tippers may not look too kindly on your treatment of these people. At the blackjack table some players prefer to tip at the end of their play after coloring up. At what point do you begin to mistreat these players because they haven't been tipping right along? One hour? Two?

Not everyone is going to tip and professional dealers understand this, accept it and don't resort to pettiness or childish games because they know it reflects badly on them and the people who sign their paychecks.

Quote: chickenman

So you are saying you average ~~$60 tips per day? I'm quite surprised as I would have guessed north of $100 but have nothing to base that on.

. Yes, thats what I'm saying. There's maybe 4 or 5 locals jobs and one downtown job that make $100 or more a day onaverager, most are in the 50-90 range. Strip ranges from 60 at low end circus, casino royale, quad, a lot of places anywhere between 80-140, and then there's the 8 or so places where dealers are brutally overpaid, and those 8 jobs seem to create this perception that dealers make so much money. I don't really care and thats not horrible for unskilled labor, for me it's just to cover basic living expenses seperate from bankroll, but for most dealers working downtown or locals Vegas, they are working two jobs to make ends meet.

Interesting. I know exactly what the dealers at my local casinos make because pit critters I am tight with have told me and your more detailed explanation clarifies.

Quote: chickenman

So you are saying you average ~~$60 tips per day? I'm quite surprised as I would have guessed north of $100 but have nothing to base that on.

We pool our tips at our house but I regularly deal high-lim Baccarat - the people on the table may take $70,000 out of my rack and I may see $10 of it back when they pay down their commission and leave. I'm not saying I'm the best dealer ever but most of my customers are regular and sit down on my table because they like me. I root for them to win by using their stupid banter (calling for 2 side, 3 side, 4 side - ding, choi (not sure of spelling), etc.) so I know my lack of tokes is not for lack of personality. In the entire high limit Baccarat pit, there might be $300 in tokes total by the end of the night. And this is after 8 hours of 6-8 full tables/night. The Baccarat players are usually just stiffs; end of story. We had a guy hit a Dragon bonus for close to $20,000. His tip? $5.

Same goes for dice players - we're lucky to see $10 an hour total between the whole crew in tokes. 8 people on the table could be getting paid $5,000 for the 6 point fire, and we might drop $20-$50 when all is said and done.

Seriously, people at my casino who deal $5/$10/$15 blackjack games or carnival games probably drop $200-$300 each when their players are winning smaller amounts.

If we had to keep our own tokes, I would never want to deal Baccarat or dice.

Quote: nobetthisroll

I root for them to win by using their stupid banter

So you root for them, all while thinking their banter is stupid. You probably think they are stupid as well. My bet is they see right through your BS, thus the lack of tips.

whenever I sit down at a table (restaurant or casino) I set my "Flip a Tip" chart next to me. Picture a small spiral notebook or a dessert menu type thing at Perkins or Denny's. I start with $2.00 showing. Oh, you filled my water before it was gone? *flip *flip it now reads $2.50. Oh extra ranch for my wings? *flip *flip $3.50. I didn't get silverware.... *flip $2.00.

Add pai gow to that list no bet. Craps you get some decent players as far as tokes, but a problem is that they always put your bets on those absurd prop bets with 10% ish HE so you rarely drop anything. 1BB, whether I like a player or not is based on their demeanor and how they speak to me, where they blow their smoke if smoking too, not tokes for the most part. A lot of players don't tip till the end of the session, the only way you know beforehand is the people you see day after day or week after week. And I'd rather deal to a calm or pleasant stiff than a George who is whining about every loss, holding a cig at eye level and blowing it across your eyes.

Quote: 1BB

Throughout this forum dealers freely admit that they don't treat all players equally and in some cases go out of their way to mistreat non tippers. Other dealers admit that they cheat on behalf of tippers. Just this week I saw three blatant examples of dealer cheating at the blackjack table, one of which was for my benefit in the expectation of a tip. I'm not going to have anything to do with even the slightest hint of collusion and I am going to leave the table as soon as the count goes down.

Dealers, why not do the job you were hired to do, stop cheating the players and your employer and let the tips fall where they may? You generally can't shame someone into tipping and potential tippers may not look too kindly on your treatment of these people. At the blackjack table some players prefer to tip at the end of their play after coloring up. At what point do you begin to mistreat these players because they haven't been tipping right along? One hour? Two?

Not everyone is going to tip and professional dealers understand this, accept it and don't resort to pettiness or childish games because they know it reflects badly on them and the people who sign their paychecks.

Any dealer that pools tips and 'cheats' for those tippers is a moron. As I said in my post, I don't mistreat non-tippers simply based on their non-tipping. However, as I said, a player who isn't tipping and is also loud, obnoxious, curses at me AND takes shots... yeaaaah, they're not getting any help from me whatsoever. Listen, I know people are going to be stiffs and will always remain stiffs. If you're pleasant, and don't try to get paid where you shouldn't, that's cool. But as a dealer I'm not going to be of any extra help to someone that is cursing at me/calling me profane names even when they're up $2,000 and they bought in for $50. Example: I know Stiff #1 is betting a side bet every hand but maybe they're a little drunk, and slow to place their bets. As soon as I lock up the cards from the previous hand, "Bets closed, no more bets!" Stiff #2 is a stiff but is pleasant, friendly to talk to and not screaming 'f you' at me over every lost hand. They're also drunk and slow to place their bets. I'll deal slightly slower and remind 'em. Same thing on dice, baccarat, any other game I deal. You bet a quarter on the hardways every time you shoot but you forgot to bet them? I'll remind you if you're not a jerk off. If you are a jerk off, tough.

We have one dice player who is one of the loudest, most obnoxious people in the world - he will scream and curse at every single dealer on every single crap game open in the pit. He could be winning $5,000 on a $100 buy-in and still be the most miserable sounding person in the world. He is a late bettor, a shot taker, argues over the vig on buy bets, makes complicated center/hop bets and yeah, a stiff. One night he had $56 in hops in some ridiculous combination. When the high side of his bet hit, he had no idea what he should get paid but since he thought it was more, he began screaming at me, telling me I was incompetent, etc. After 5 minutes of my box, floor, and me trying to explain why his bet paid what it paid - he accepted his money and griped loudly that the casino was trying to scam him! Eye roll. You can't tell me after 7 hours of treatment like this, that you'd be thrilled to be dealing with this guy and that your demeanor wouldn't change! As I said, not outright rude but late bet? NO BET. You need to be reminded to bet odds because you're so busy screaming at everyone that you forgot 'em? Oh well, not reminding you. After being told to drop your money in the Come 12 times tonight instead of throwing it at the stick, you throw a mess of white and it gets accidentally and partially locked up since your cheques knocked into everyone else's? You're not getting the benefit of the doubt. Sir, I see $8 here, not $10.

I have dealt to people all night that appear to be stiffs or are regulars that are known-stiffs without ever changing my attitude as if they were good tippers. As I said, they're nice people. However my smile may be harder to force and my cheering for you will likely die off after the 50th time you scream at me, try to say you had more money on a bet than you did, etc. At that point I'll just 'dummy up and deal.'

Quote: AxelWolf

So you root for them, all while thinking their banter is stupid. You probably think they are stupid as well. My bet is they see right through your BS, thus the lack of tips.

I don't think they're stupid, no. I think they're superstitious, sure, but stupid? Naw. Their banter is hoping to change a card that's (obviously) already in their hands and not going to change.

And your 'bet' is a losing one - being that I regularly deal to the same customers who have a choice of 6-8 tables and still come see me, talk to me all night, etc. Even when they're not playing, they'll come and sit just to talk and ask how I'm doing. I also have regulars who reserve games and request me. Some are stiffs, some are not - but regardless, they smile and laugh and joke with me all night - they just don't tip - and not just me, it goes for any dealer in the pit. I still like them and don't mind dealing to them cause a lot of them are friendly and funny.

As I said 20 times now, huge difference between someone who stiffs and is cool otherwise, and someone who stiffs and is a jerk-off that screams/curses/takes shots/throws cards in my face/tries to throw their cards in to knock over my commission lammers. I'm not going to be unpleasant to the latter, but it is emotionally draining. I honestly don't want anyone to lose their money - I gamble myself and I believe it's bad karma to root against them - but I certainly feel worse for the players who are nice and not giving me death threats or smacking my hand.

Quote: mcallister3200

Add pai gow to that list no bet. Craps you get some decent players as far as tokes, but a problem is that they always put your bets on those absurd prop bets with 10% ish HE so you rarely drop anything. 1BB, whether I like a player or not is based on their demeanor and how they speak to me, where they blow their smoke if smoking too, not tokes for the most part. A lot of players don't tip till the end of the session, the only way you know beforehand is the people you see day after day or week after week. And I'd rather deal to a calm or pleasant stiff than a George who is whining about every loss, holding a cig at eye level and blowing it across your eyes.

Every time I've asked, the dealers have indicated I put the bet on one of the hard ways. Just sayin.

Quote: nobetthisroll

... someone who stiffs and is a jerk-off that screams/curses/takes shots/throws cards in my face/tries to throw their cards in to knock over my commission lammers.

I've always been curious if an offical policy is set by a casino regarding how much of this type of behavior to allow. I haven't personally been at any tables where anything physical occurred (like throwing the cards), but I have been at tables where a player has used plentiful amounts of foul, vulgar language when they are unhappy.

Does a player have to become exceptionally unruly before getting confronted by the casino? Do the casinos inform their dealers where the line is on bad behavior by a customer? Maybe it is just handled on a case-by-case basis.

I am known to use foul language and become enraged when f I hit a horrific run of variance…I have never been asked to leave. One supervisor approached me and informed me that if it were anyone else he would have called security.

Quote: blount2000

I've always been curious if an offical policy is set by a casino regarding how much of this type of behavior to allow. I haven't personally been at any tables where anything physical occurred (like throwing the cards), but I have been at tables where a player has used plentiful amounts of foul, vulgar language when they are unhappy.

Does a player have to become exceptionally unruly before getting confronted by the casino? Do the casinos inform their dealers where the line is on bad behavior by a customer? Maybe it is just handled on a case-by-case basis.

Not sure about official, written policy, but I do know most competent floor supervisors will warn someone first, then call a shift manager and security if someone is going insane. Some players are smarter and don't do it as loudly when the floor is in earshot. There are players who are scream and curse and there are players who scream and curse directly *at* the dealer. Like, there was a player that was banned for referring to a dealer as a "f'ing chink." But plenty of people sit there and drop f-bombs all night. The last time someone threatened to "find me" outside of the casino, he was kicked out 2 minutes later once I complained. It seems that some people will have your back and some won't, though.

For the most part though, everyone gets a warning - if a floor supervisor worth their weight is there and it doesn't stop or gets worse, they're escorted to the cage and then to their car. Truly horrendous behavior results in a ban.

Quote: EvenBob

Maybe. But in the dealer breakroom, both are
treated with equal disdain. The George is a
fool, and the stiff is a jerk. Read the dealer
forums. Tip who you like, and screw the rest.

This is a load of crap.

Georges are always spoken of very highly, with appreciation and gratitude. Anyone who shows fine consideration to the workers (and dealers feel they work hard) in a field of stiffs stands out as a kind and considerate person.

The Georges always - and only - get praised, because they were helpful to the workers.

I don't tip for the dealers' benefit: I tip for my benefit. I do it because it increases my enjoyment of the game. How the recipient talks about me an hour later is not my concern. And regardless, I will not deny them their humanity, their ability to compartmentalize their experiences.

Quote: Mosca

Every time I've asked, the dealers have indicated I put the bet on one of the hard ways. Just sayin.

I regularly throw out $6 place bets on 6 & 8 for dealers. I have experienced the same thing Mosca!

I tip generously at casinos. Lower income folk being able to make a living working in a casino is probably the only socially redeeming element of gambling.

Quote: Paigowdan

This is a load of crap.

Georges are always spoken of very highly, with appreciation and gratitude. Anyone who shows fine consideration to the workers (and dealers feel they work hard) in a field of stiffs stands out as a kind and considerate person.

The Georges always - and only - get praised, because they were helpful to the workers.

Been there, done that. Gonna have to agree with Dan. Both in break rooms and on the bus down from Blackhawk to Denver !

Quote: ncfatcat

I tip generously at casinos. Lower income folk being able to make a living working in a casino is probably the only socially redeeming element of gambling.

What???? How about if the casino industry pays a decent wage so the folks aren't low income.

Here's the current model: pay the dealers, who are the ambassadors for your business next to nothing. Then expect the customers and the government to subsidize the dealers salaries. Yes government as many dealers qualify for food stamps, medicaid and low income energy assistance, if not outright welfare. The result will be that you continue to attract less quality workers. Workers who don't care about anything. Workers with that attitude that we all see regularly. And I mean no offense to those of you that are current dealers and industry personal. Like anything, I am sure there are good and bad, and most of you guys that participate here, look to be the exception (good) by your attitude. But if your are honest, you all know many of these co-workers, that fit this 'I don't give a damn' attitude.

Now here is what the model should be: This industry is doing pretty well, and sure they like to tell you, how their profits are down from peak times a few years ago, but you don't see too many closing up shop. For every casino that closes there are 2 or more that open. That tells you they are all making money. So this industry that is doing pretty well, should pay their first line and most important customer ambassadors, the dealers, a decent living wage. A wage that they can live on without pulling out their snap, ebt card at the food store. A wage that makes them proud of what they do and make them happy to come to work, rather than being the grouch waiting for next break or shifts end. A wage that might attract a little better quality person with a better attitude. A happy, content employee with a good attitude. One that customers will enjoy interacting with, win or lose. And then guess what? Those customers come back and they tell their friends what a good time they had and how pleasant their experience was and how they enjoyed the dealers. And that is how business grows and profits.

Now what's a fair and recent wage? I don't know. I'll leave that to others to decide. But jeez, the 'kid' dunkin french fries into the oil at McDonalds is making more that some dealers. Is he more essential to his business than the dealer is to the casino industry? And frankly, that is the part that I don't get why the dealers haven't raised hell about.

So that's my opinion. Now go ahead, y'all and tear into it. Lol

Quote: nobetthisroll

Yeah your tip money means the house doesn't have to pay out of 'their' pockets but on that note - it's not like the casino caps off a dealers tips per hour and keeps the overage. But sure, go ahead and stick it to the man.

DOES a casino cap your tips and keep the overage? Is this routine or just where you work? I'd really like to know, because I'm a good tipper, and that would steam my oysters. In fact, I want a list of where they do that, because I've never heard of it. (Not calling you out; just going to take it into account on where I play.)

OK. Define a George, please. I think I have a lot of it from context, but what is the reference? Constanza or something? And what is the behavior?

Quote: Paigowdan

Georges are always spoken of very highly, .

Bull. Georges are not respected, they're made
fun of. I was in the position of receiving tips
for 3 years myself, and we certainly didn't
respect the big tippers. We thought they were
chumps. So do dealers, so do waitresses. If
you over tip in the UK they almost look at
you with a sneer, for being so classless.

Quote: beachbumbabs

OK. Define a George, please. I think I have a lot of it from context, but what is the reference? Constanza or something? And what is the behavior?

George. As in Washington - $1 bill. I assume its because a typical casino tip is $1.

Quote: beachbumbabs

OK. Define a George, please. I think I have a lot of it from context, but what is the reference? Constanza or something? And what is the behavior?

A George is somebody who over tips. The Wiz
on the WoO page says it's typically a high
roller.

'George - A player who tips the dealers often and generously.'

Frank Sinatra was a George. He tipped nothing but
hundred dollar bills. He learned it from his mob
pals, tipping sets you apart from the yokels. It lets
them know that you're way up here, and they are
way down there. There's a scene in Godfellas where
the DeNiro character comes into the bar/restaurant
and is tipping hundreds to everybody in sight. He's
saying, I'm a somebody and you're a nobody, and
you taking my money proves it.

Quote: EvenBob

A George is somebody who over tips. The Wiz
on the WoO page says it's typically a high
roller.

Since tipping is voluntary, is it really possible to overtip? What is overtipping?

Quote: treetopbuddy

Since tipping is voluntary, is it really possible to overtip? What is overtipping?

In a bar, it's giving a $5 tip for a $4 drink. It's
giving a valet a $100 bill for bringing your car,
like Sinatra used to do. It's tipping 50% of the
dinner check instead of 20%. Sure, they take
the money. But don't think for a minute they
look on the tipper as anything but a chump.

Quote: EvenBob

But don't think for a minute they
look on the tipper as anything but a chump.

Way back in the day I was in the golf business. Worked at 5 star resort in Phoenix. A group of 5 or 6 guys would come to Arizona to play golf. They owned car dealerships in the Detroit area, I believe. They were HUGE tippers. Threw around thousands of dollars in tips for essentially preferred tee times and being extra nice. These guys were never considered for one moment chumps, by anybody on the staff. Are you kidding me? We loved them. Chumps? Really?

Quote: blount2000

I've always been curious if an offical policy is set by a casino regarding how much of this type of behavior to allow. I haven't personally been at any tables where anything physical occurred (like throwing the cards), but I have been at tables where a player has used plentiful amounts of foul, vulgar language when they are unhappy.

Does a player have to become exceptionally unruly before getting confronted by the casino? Do the casinos inform their dealers where the line is on bad behavior by a customer? Maybe it is just handled on a case-by-case basis.

It's a case-by-case basis. For example, if a guy is losing big, big money, it's going to take a lot for him to get kicked out. For example, years ago I once saw a guy at a blackjack table who was on a really bad losing streak, and he started cursing at the dealer and lifting up the table and dropping it down. He continued to lose over the course of an hour or so, and his behavior got progressively worse. He started slamming his fist on the table hard and literally ripping up the cards after every losing hand.

The pit's reaction? No problem. When it was time for a shuffle, the shift manager (not a pit boss or floor) calmly walked up with a new deck of cards, the dealer shuffled, and the new round started. Granted, there were a bunch of security guards several feet away keeping an eye on things, but no one ever said anything to the guy. They just allowed him to keep on losing.

Quote: PhattyD

whenever I sit down at a table (restaurant or casino) I set my "Flip a Tip" chart next to me. Picture a small spiral notebook or a dessert menu type thing at Perkins or Denny's. I start with $2.00 showing. Oh, you filled my water before it was gone? *flip *flip it now reads $2.50. Oh extra ranch for my wings? *flip *flip $3.50. I didn't get silverware.... *flip $2.00.

I sure hope this is a joke.

Quote: AxelWolf

So you root for them, all while thinking their banter is stupid. You probably think they are stupid as well. My bet is they see right through your BS, thus the lack of tips.

Actually, he's right about people who play bac. Bac players are notorious for being stiffs.

Quote: nobetthisroll

We pool our tips at our house but I regularly deal high-lim Baccarat - the people on the table may take $70,000 out of my rack and I may see $10 of it back when they pay down their commission and leave. I'm not saying I'm the best dealer ever but most of my customers are regular and sit down on my table because they like me. I root for them to win by using their stupid banter (calling for 2 side, 3 side, 4 side - ding, choi (not sure of spelling), etc.) so I know my lack of tokes is not for lack of personality. In the entire high limit Baccarat pit, there might be $300 in tokes total by the end of the night. And this is after 8 hours of 6-8 full tables/night. The Baccarat players are usually just stiffs; end of story. We had a guy hit a Dragon bonus for close to $20,000. His tip? $5.

Same goes for dice players - we're lucky to see $10 an hour total between the whole crew in tokes. 8 people on the table could be getting paid $5,000 for the 6 point fire, and we might drop $20-$50 when all is said and done.

Seriously, people at my casino who deal $5/$10/$15 blackjack games or carnival games probably drop $200-$300 each when their players are winning smaller amounts.

If we had to keep our own tokes, I would never want to deal Baccarat or dice.

When a player loses do you give him money out of your pocket? And, btw, I put my money where my mouth is. I was playing blackjack once and a drunk guy around 30 years old was up a lot and put a black chip on the betting circle of every player at the table. If the player won, he kept $200. If he lost he got zilch. My hand won. I didn't say thank you. I just smiled and put the 2 black chips in my pocket. A couple of hours later I saw him stumbling around dead broke as I knew he'd wind up. I walked up to him and stuck the 2 black chips in his shirt pocket without a word, smiling, and walked away.

Quote: Mosca

I don't tip for the dealers' benefit: I tip for my benefit. I do it because it increases my enjoyment of the game. How the recipient talks about me an hour later is not my concern. And regardless, I will not deny them their humanity, their ability to compartmentalize their experiences.

Well said Mosca. That's usually why I tip as well, it makes me feel better. I make a point out of tipping janitor's at casino's anytime I'm in the lavatory and they are cleaning up. I haven't met one yet that didn't appreciate or seem surprised.

I can scarcely remember not tipping either a waitress or a dealer, but in my mind those times were deserved. Unfortunately two of those times have been in the last year at craps tables. I have to make myself not tip some of these caustic, demeaning dealers that seem to think they are the be all end all of stick people and think its cool to insult players.

Quote: petroglyph

Well said Mosca. That's usually why I tip as well, it makes me feel better. I make a point out of tipping janitor's at casino's anytime I'm in the lavatory and they are cleaning up. I haven't met one yet that didn't appreciate or seem surprised.

I can scarcely remember not tipping either a waitress or a dealer, but in my mind those times were deserved. Unfortunately two of those times have been in the last year at craps tables. I have to make myself not tip some of these caustic, demeaning dealers that seem to think they are the be all end all of stick people and think its cool to insult players.

Yeah, petro, I do that too. There used to be a washroom attendant in better places, and they did have a tip tray that I used. If the washroom is well maintained and an attendant is there, I always say "thank you" and usually tip as well. Same type of surprise in most cases. Kinda fun.

Quote: mcallister3200

...and then there's the 8 or so places where dealers are brutally overpaid, and those 8 jobs seem to create this perception that dealers make so much money.

...and ironically, those "brutally overpaid" dealers are the biggest jerks of all (e.g., Caesars, the Wynn, the Bellagio).

I do agree that it's very unfair for players to have the perception that dealers make a lot of money when most don't, but I would also argue that there are many dealers out there who have the perception that they should also be receiving the same "brutally overpaid" salaries. Thus, their poor treatment of players who don't tip.

I will say that dealers at locals casinos are MUCH nicer than dealers on the Strip. It's not even close.

Quote: Paigowdan

Quote: EvenBob

Maybe. But in the dealer breakroom, both are
treated with equal disdain. The George is a
fool, and the stiff is a jerk. Read the dealer
forums. Tip who you like, and screw the rest.

This is a load of crap.

Georges are always spoken of very highly, with appreciation and gratitude. Anyone who shows fine consideration to the workers (and dealers feel they work hard) in a field of stiffs stands out as a kind and considerate person.

The Georges always - and only - get praised, because they were helpful to the workers.

I'm not sure what to believe on this subject. I can say for a fact that I once saw a guy at the Wynn who was pleasant at the table and very generous in his tipping, yet after he left I overheard the box and one of the dealers referring to him as a "loser". I couldn't believe they would say such a thing about a guy who had just given them a lot of money.

But since it's just a single incident, I don't really know if this is a trend or an anomaly.

Quote: Beethoven9th

...and ironically, those "brutally overpaid" dealers are the biggest jerks of all (e.g., Caesars, the Wynn, the Bellagio).

I do agree that it's very unfair for players to have the perception that dealers make a lot of money when most don't, but I would also argue that there are many dealers out there who have the perception that they should also be receiving the same "brutally overpaid" salaries. Thus, their poor treatment of players who don't tip.

I will say that dealers at locals casinos are MUCH nicer than dealers on the Strip. It's not even close.



I'm not sure what to believe on this subject. I can say for a fact that I once saw a guy at the Wynn who was pleasant at the table and very generous in his tipping, yet after he left I overheard the box and one of the dealers referring to him as a "loser". I couldn't believe they would say such a thing about a guy who had just given them a lot of money.

But since it's just a single incident, I don't really know if this is a trend or an anomaly.

It absolutely happens. That and worse. How about a floor going into the computer and telling everyone how much a player lost or a floor telling everyone the year a player was born? No class at all.

Quote: 1BB

It absolutely happens. That and worse. How about a floor going into the computer and telling everyone how much a player lost or a floor telling everyone the year a player was born? No class at all.

Man, that is really bad.

Quote: treetopbuddy

Chumps? Really?

If you're kid, it's different. If you're older
and know how things work, over tippers
are seen as clueless chumps. We took
their money, but no respect was thrown
their way.

Quote: EvenBob

If you're kid, it's different. If you're older
and know how things work, over tippers
are seen as clueless chumps. We took
their money, but no respect was thrown
their way.

I call bullshit.

While I believe that you are bitter and see only the negative in everything, I don't believe that everyone else is like this. You're projecting your unhappiness on the rest of the world.

Quote: Beethoven9th

I once saw a guy at the Wynn who was pleasant at the table and very generous in his tipping, yet after he left I overheard the box and one of the dealers referring to him as a "loser". I couldn't believe they would say such a thing about a guy who had just given them a lot of money.
.

People who over tip think they are buying
respect, and they're not. They don't know
it but it brings out the opposite reaction.
Cool people who know how to get respect
know exactly how, and how much, to tip.
It's an important thing to learn if you want
to be looked at as something other than
a ploppie chump.

Quote: EvenBob

People who over tip think they are buying
respect, and they're not. They don't know
it but it brings out the opposite reaction.
Cool people who know how to get respect
know exactly how, and how much, to tip.
It's an important thing to learn if you want
to be looked at as something other than
a ploppie chump.

So the night I left a $50 tip on the $100 bill because the place was empty, and the waiter chased us down in the parking lot to gush his thanks, what he was really doing was laughing all the way back and calling me a chump?

I beg to differ.

Quote: RaleighCraps

I beg to differ.

So you think that's the norm? It's not.
Generally over tipping on steady basis
does not get you what you think it does.
All you have to do is spend some time
in the world of getting tips to know the
truth. I had a bar for three years and
was in the taxi business for three more.

Sometimes it does buy you something,
though. I had a middle aged guy in the
bar who owned a plumbing business.
He came in about three times a month
and got shit faced and started fights.
When I was there, he tipped me $5 every
time he got a drink, $50 a night sometimes.
It bought slack from me and I never
permanently 86'd him. $50 was a good chunk
of money in 1980.

Quote: RaleighCraps

So the night I left a $50 tip on the $100 bill because the place was empty, and the waiter chased us down in the parking lot to gush his thanks, what he was really doing was laughing all the way back and calling me a chump?

I beg to differ.

I have been told "thanks for being a good tipper" by a bartender in a particular bar. I intentionally tip well in that bar because the bartenders take care to make good drinks, and do a very good job of it (ie, I tip them well because I think that they deserve it). This bar specializes in rum cocktails, so there is more complexity to making them than just pouring some whiskey into a glass. As a result of my tipping (at least, I assume that that's the reason), my drinks tend to be made a little stiffer than other peoples'. The "free pour" at the end of the shot allows for some variation here.

These are not ridiculously large tips. I'm talking about tipping $2-$3 per drink instead of the $1 per drink that most other people else tip. So if I'm there with a girl and I buy a drink for myself and a drink for her I might tip the bartender $5. The drinks are in the $10-$15 range so I'm tipping about 20% -- nothing crazy.

Quote: EvenBob

So you think that's the norm? It's not.
Generally over tipping on steady basis
does not get you what you think it does.
All you have to do is spend some time
in the world of getting tips to know the
truth. I had a bar for three years and
was in the taxi business for three more.

Sometimes it does buy you something,
though. I had a middle aged guy in the
bar who owned a plumbing business.
He came in about three times a month
and got shit faced and started fights.
When I was there, he tipped me $5 every
time he got a drink, $50 a night sometimes.
It bought slack from me and I never
permanently 86'd him. $50 was a good chunk
of money in 1980.

I think your view of tipping has been skewed by your personal experiences with receiving tips, and how you personally, perceived the tips.
I would tend to think that taxis and bars would be two areas where you get to put up with a lot of characters and other crap, so your view of customers could easily become jaded.
In my experience, an ass is always an ass, whether he is tipping .1% or 100%. It's not the size of the tip that makes him an ass, it is his persona.

My dad and I would arrive at the Dunes CC in Las Vegas with no tee time during peak season. The course was booked solid. Dad would walk to the Starters Shack and magically we were next on the tee. How did that happen?

Tipping big opens doors......that's a fact, jack. Maybe some members of forum should give it a try......:-) LOL

Quote: RaleighCraps

I think your view of tipping has been skewed by your personal experiences with receiving tips

It's also been skewed by going to casinos
for 35 years and reading the dealer message
boards for 10. They make fun of over tippers
there all the time, just like the rest of the
industry does. It's human nature. Most of
the time over tippers are using it as a form
of manipulation, they want something from
you. People don't like being manipulated, they
resent it. They'll take the money, but it's not
buying what the tipper thinks it is.

Quote: EvenBob

If you're kid, it's different. If you're older
and know how things work, over tippers
are seen as clueless chumps. We took
their money, but no respect was thrown
their way.

I can waste my time trying to discern the normal people apart from the cynics, or I can do what I want and move forward. Not being a cynic myself, I move forward.

Quote: EvenBob

People don't like being manipulated, they
resent it. They'll take the money, but it's not
buying what the tipper thinks it is.

I think people that rely on tips for a living don't resent the tipper (some may) but most resent that they have to make a living from tips.