EvenBob
EvenBob
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
  • Threads: 425
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October 1st, 2011 at 8:38:19 PM permalink
I was reading an article by a former casino manager,
who also teaches dealers how to be floor supervisors.
He says he tells his students that a casino is selling
a product, and that product is 'negative expectation'.
Every customer that comes thru the door has a negative
expectation of winning, and if the casino finds out they
have way to get a positive expectation, its up to the
casino to get rid of them ASAP.

I don't think I've ever seen it put quite so bluntly before.
He's saying everything here is set up so you will lose. We
expect you to lose, we want you to lose. If you've found
a way to get around what we're selling, we won't stand
for it and we'll get rid of you. When we say 'We love
winners!' with a big crap eating grin plastered on our
faces, what we really mean is 'We hate it when you win!'
I've never read where they actually talk to dealers and
floor people so bluntly, maybe this guy is unique.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
  • Threads: 221
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October 2nd, 2011 at 5:39:53 AM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

I was reading an article by a former casino manager,
who also teaches dealers how to be floor supervisors.
He says he tells his students that a casino is selling
a product, and that product is 'negative expectation'.
Every customer that comes thru the door has a negative
expectation of winning, and if the casino finds out they
have way to get a positive expectation, its up to the
casino to get rid of them ASAP.

I don't think I've ever seen it put quite so bluntly before.
He's saying everything here is set up so you will lose. We
expect you to lose, we want you to lose. If you've found
a way to get around what we're selling, we won't stand
for it and we'll get rid of you. When we say 'We love
winners!' with a big crap eating grin plastered on our
faces, what we really mean is 'We hate it when you win!'
I've never read where they actually talk to dealers and
floor people so bluntly, maybe this guy is unique.




When I was in dealer school it was explained a little different and better IMHO. The guy said the casino "earns" its money because every bet (except craps free-odds as we know but he didn't confues newbies) has a built-in edge. Then he said casinos base play on "greed" and I forget the fancy term for lazieness. "Greed" means they want more money. Lazieness means they want the money without working for it. The more of both a player has the easier to empty their wallet.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
Paigowdan
Paigowdan
Joined: Apr 28, 2010
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October 2nd, 2011 at 6:42:36 AM permalink
Bob,
You know, there is a negative expectation on everything in life, as your salary is expected to be spent - instead of hoarded or freeloading or constantly complaining that it costs too much "to pay to play." You have got to pay to play as part of the game of life. Crap or get off the pot without complaining.

If you're complaining about the fee to gamble in the first place, then you're obviously broke or an AP.
And casinos are not selling to you. The internet is.
Casinos are selling to those who will pay-to-play.

Casinos charge the entertainment fee as part of the house edge on its games, and that should indeed be known going in - or else don't go or complain. If you were to complain about not getting a free lunch when you want it or expect it - you will do a lot complaining, which is a lot of space at this forum.

Every "pay-for-play" action in this life costs you money. Life therefore sucks, and we complain about that on the Internet.
And Mike moderates this amusing xhit.
Dinner and a movie with a cheap date: $75.
Good dinner and a show: $300.
Great dinner and a great show and with a really great "date": $8,200
House edge on casino games: 0.5% to 4.1% for tables, in that range.
It is important to have a well-paying job, to spend your time paying for these things and enjoying these things, instead of complaining about the tolls to be paid to get through it or to it.

And You got a shot at winning it back at a casino, - and no where else.

Oh... let us not forget:
Griping on the Internet at a gambler's forum and how much life can cost you, - including to play at a casino or card room - called the house edge for being alive:

$0 by freeeloading on a neighbor's Wi-Fi.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
PapaChubby
PapaChubby
Joined: Mar 29, 2010
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October 2nd, 2011 at 7:39:18 AM permalink
In my opinion, this makes no sense. The way the casino makes money is the house edge. But its not what they're selling. Who would want to buy that? It's like saying that what a clothing store is selling is profit. They're not. They're selling clothes. But profit margin is the way they make their money. And everybody working at the store needs to understand that if they sell the clothes without making a profit, then the store will not last very long.

What the casino is selling is variance. When I play a hand of $100 blackjack in the casino, I'm being offered the opportunity to win or lose $100 or more. This is what provides the entertainment and enjoyment of the game. And the cost that I pay to the casino in exchange for this is 30 to 80 cents per hand. Even less when you consider comped rooms and meals, free drinks while gambling, etc.

In my estimation, this is completely reasonable. The casino is not evil or exploitative for collecting their fee for the service they provide.
ncfatcat
ncfatcat
Joined: Jun 25, 2011
  • Threads: 2
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October 2nd, 2011 at 7:47:59 AM permalink
Well realistically life is a negative expectation game.
Gambling is a metaphor for life. Hang around long enough and it's all gone.
buzzpaff
buzzpaff
Joined: Mar 8, 2011
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October 2nd, 2011 at 8:08:22 AM permalink
And what were you selling as a barman, BOB. Good Health ??
Nareed
Nareed
Joined: Nov 11, 2009
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October 2nd, 2011 at 8:12:10 AM permalink
Quote: buzzpaff

And what were you selling as a barman, BOB. Good Health ??



Bars sell bitters, don't they?
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
buzzpaff
buzzpaff
Joined: Mar 8, 2011
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October 2nd, 2011 at 8:14:08 AM permalink
Not in any bar BOB owned!
EvenBob
EvenBob
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
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October 2nd, 2011 at 4:06:35 PM permalink
Quote: Paigowdan


Griping on the Internet at a gambler's forum .



Where does it sound like I'm griping? I simply
stated what I read. Facts are facts. You must
feel awfully guilty about what you do Dan,
you're so quick to defend it and climb down the
throat of anybody who in the least bit questions
it. Fact is, casinos are there to take your money
any way they can, plain and simple. No, they
haven't taken mine, nor will they. Casinos are
the Dark Side, pretending they're not doesn't
change anything.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
Mosca
Mosca
Joined: Dec 14, 2009
  • Threads: 178
  • Posts: 3804
October 2nd, 2011 at 4:59:06 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

I was reading an article by a former casino manager,
who also teaches dealers how to be floor supervisors.
He says he tells his students that a casino is selling
a product, and that product is 'negative expectation'.
Every customer that comes thru the door has a negative
expectation of winning, and if the casino finds out they
have way to get a positive expectation, its up to the
casino to get rid of them ASAP.

I don't think I've ever seen it put quite so bluntly before.
He's saying everything here is set up so you will lose. We
expect you to lose, we want you to lose. If you've found
a way to get around what we're selling, we won't stand
for it and we'll get rid of you. When we say 'We love
winners!' with a big crap eating grin plastered on our
faces, what we really mean is 'We hate it when you win!'
I've never read where they actually talk to dealers and
floor people so bluntly, maybe this guy is unique.




;-D

You make this sound like it's a bad thing!

How else should it be? I don't WANT them to love me. I don't even want them to know me, beyond the time we spend together. (I DO want them to be pleasant, though.) I want them to have an edge, I want them to want to take my money. If it were any other way it wouldn't be any fun.

I think most gamblers have their eyes pretty wide open on this one, even the casual ones. How the casino feels about it is kind of irrelevant. I don't really care what they think of me. I care that I get good entertainment value for my money. Everything else is commentary.
NO KILL I

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