circus circus 2:1 blackjack payout rules?
June 12th, 2011 at 4:18:48 PM
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I noticed the following on twitter this afternoon (sorry, hope this doesn't violate any sort of forum rules):
CircusVegas (Circus Circus)
R Party Pit is the only place on the strip paying 2:1 on blackjack! Payout avail. everyday @ various times. Watch 4 the red lights. (21+)
Does anyone know the rules/specifics on this game? Certainly there are other shady rules they use to make up the difference in house advantage, right? Or maybe it's just a novelty $5 game to get people to visit the casino?
CircusVegas (Circus Circus)
R Party Pit is the only place on the strip paying 2:1 on blackjack! Payout avail. everyday @ various times. Watch 4 the red lights. (21+)
Does anyone know the rules/specifics on this game? Certainly there are other shady rules they use to make up the difference in house advantage, right? Or maybe it's just a novelty $5 game to get people to visit the casino?
June 12th, 2011 at 4:46:37 PM
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Based on the tweet, it looks like the 2-1 payout is only when the red light is on, and either 3-2 or 6-5 otherwise. All you'd need to do is figure out the % of time the red light is on and take the weighted average of game EVs. Chances are they didn't change the base rules much if at all.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice."
-- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
June 13th, 2011 at 1:09:07 AM
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I played this for about 2.5 hours my last trip. At the beginning they were turning the red light on a lot. Like every 20 minutes or so, for about 3-5 minutes. Then they suddenly just stopped. So I left. You have to be betting a minimum of $10 when the light is on to get the 2-1. I spread $5-$10, and got one bonus BJ. Other rules are normal. Actually a pretty fun (and potentially profitable) promotion when they are liberal with the lights
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
June 13th, 2011 at 4:33:57 PM
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Thanks for the info teddy! 6 deck shoe? Shuffle machine? Who decides when the light goes on? Pit boss?
June 13th, 2011 at 7:41:31 PM
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Both six deck and shuffle, pit boss decides, yes.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
June 13th, 2011 at 9:13:14 PM
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I've heard it comes on about once an hour. For a while it came on at regular intervals so advantage players showed up just before the light was about to come on, bet the max $500 bet until it went off, and then went to read a book until the next cycle. Now it is somewhat randomized by the floor men. It probably still has a small positive EV if you're comfortable with the $500 bets while the light is on.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
June 13th, 2011 at 9:34:53 PM
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That's the dilemma pit bosses and casino marketers face. You can offer multiple points on slots, random drawings for slot players, high winning hand hourly or daily in your poker room, and reward your regulars while hoping to attract new players to your casino. Do anything like the 2 to 1 payoff or match play and all you attract usually are advantage players. Quite often berating your regulars and generally making asses of themselves. Just love the AP who brags how much he can win per hour on his Vegas trip, then scurries around town to use a $25 match play, wasting an hour of travel time, plus trying to hang over a shift change to try and bet a second match play. That's why most pit people and dealers hate counters.
Read almost any BJ book and the tipping advice is it's OK to tip if dealer moves cut card beyond house requirement, or lets you bet below table minimum , etc. In other words if he risks his job, tip, but not too much. Almost all BJ forums and books , except Lawrence Revere, say to TIP ONLY if you want to win less when you win and lose more when you lose
Read almost any BJ book and the tipping advice is it's OK to tip if dealer moves cut card beyond house requirement, or lets you bet below table minimum , etc. In other words if he risks his job, tip, but not too much. Almost all BJ forums and books , except Lawrence Revere, say to TIP ONLY if you want to win less when you win and lose more when you lose
June 13th, 2011 at 11:43:38 PM
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I guess it depends on how empty their casino is and how any sort of "offer" will attract regulars rather than sharpies who are simply hunting the special promotion and no more likely to become a regular there than fly.
Rewarding current players is probably the best way to "grow" a casino or offering attractions that require some degree of play over a period of time. (Tenth cup of coffee is free is a better marketing gimmick than first cup of coffee is free).
I would think that anyone who wagers that 500.00 on a special promotion puts a pretty good dent in his bankroll if he loses so they are really inviting the sharpies to come for a special and not gamble much after that. Not a good marketing plan.
What about giving free play to existing players or just walking around and giving five dollars to everyone at a table. This would reward either regulars or people with some potential to become regulars but not attract the Groupon Coupon Groupies who merely want to go on to the next Groupon Coupon special.
Rewarding current players is probably the best way to "grow" a casino or offering attractions that require some degree of play over a period of time. (Tenth cup of coffee is free is a better marketing gimmick than first cup of coffee is free).
I would think that anyone who wagers that 500.00 on a special promotion puts a pretty good dent in his bankroll if he loses so they are really inviting the sharpies to come for a special and not gamble much after that. Not a good marketing plan.
What about giving free play to existing players or just walking around and giving five dollars to everyone at a table. This would reward either regulars or people with some potential to become regulars but not attract the Groupon Coupon Groupies who merely want to go on to the next Groupon Coupon special.
June 13th, 2011 at 11:51:27 PM
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Quote: buzzpaffRead almost any BJ book and the tipping advice is it's OK to tip if dealer moves cut card beyond house requirement, or lets you bet below table minimum , etc. In other words if he risks his job, tip, but not too much. Almost all BJ forums and books , except Lawrence Revere, say to TIP ONLY if you want to win less when you win and lose more when you lose
I agree that is what most blackjack books say. That is also an area where I disagree some big names that I have a lot of respect for. In my opinion, tipping is a cost of doing business. If you can't afford to tip then don't play.
Quote: FleaStiffWhat about giving free play to existing players or just walking around and giving five dollars to everyone at a table. This would reward either regulars or people with some potential to become regulars but not attract the Groupon Coupon Groupies who merely want to go on to the next Groupon Coupon special.
I've heard that Jackie Gaughan does that at the El Cortez sometimes. I like the idea.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
June 14th, 2011 at 12:16:25 AM
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> In my opinion, tipping is a cost of doing business. If you can't afford to tip then don't play.
Yeah. If you can't afford the two dollars, carry your own luggage!
You tip for service and you tip a bit extra for having received extra service or having received "extra luck". Now we all admit the dealer did nothing to bring you that luck but a bit of generous exuberance won't hurt.
>I've heard that Jackie Gaughan does that at the El Cortez sometimes. I like the idea.
The players who receive the five dollars like that idea. And they are already there and far more likely to be there tomorrow than someone who comes in for a "Red Light Special" and intends to solely make some special Red Light Bet and then wander back to his "home casino". Alot of Vegas regulars seem to find themselves all over town and simply play at the nearest casino they have any familiarity with. Errands, jobs, social life, etc. take them all over town and they have a key ring with a bunch of players cards on it. They might no be induced by a Red Light Special but if they happen to be at some casino they will surely be affected by five bucks even if they are betting black.
Yeah. If you can't afford the two dollars, carry your own luggage!
You tip for service and you tip a bit extra for having received extra service or having received "extra luck". Now we all admit the dealer did nothing to bring you that luck but a bit of generous exuberance won't hurt.
>I've heard that Jackie Gaughan does that at the El Cortez sometimes. I like the idea.
The players who receive the five dollars like that idea. And they are already there and far more likely to be there tomorrow than someone who comes in for a "Red Light Special" and intends to solely make some special Red Light Bet and then wander back to his "home casino". Alot of Vegas regulars seem to find themselves all over town and simply play at the nearest casino they have any familiarity with. Errands, jobs, social life, etc. take them all over town and they have a key ring with a bunch of players cards on it. They might no be induced by a Red Light Special but if they happen to be at some casino they will surely be affected by five bucks even if they are betting black.
June 14th, 2011 at 9:17:23 AM
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Worse promotion I ever saw as far as BJ was a promotion on slots. Wonder if any casino still draws winning slot machines on the hour? Not randomly, but on the hour. Isle of Capri did that for months on Monday thru Thursday. You had to be on the machine at least a minute or 2 before the hour with player card inserted. Most days it was 100 and occasionally $500. So at 5 minutes to the hour, players would leave BJ tables to sit next to wife who had his card already inserted and he would play until the winner was announced.
Can you imagine how the BJ pit loved that LOL.
Can you imagine how the BJ pit loved that LOL.
April 9th, 2018 at 12:12:43 PM
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Anyone know if Circus Circus still has the 2-1 blackjack when the lights flash thing?
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
April 9th, 2018 at 12:39:29 PM
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Quote: AcesAndEightsAnyone know if Circus Circus still has the 2-1 blackjack when the lights flash thing?
I broke the red light. Sorry
Any private business open to the PUBLIC (ie. droned out casinos) cannot have a criminal trespass enforced against an individual without GOOD CAUSE (Disruptive or Disorderly conduct). You will never go to prison for being thrown out of a casino for legal advantage play and then returning because it's simply unconstitutional 'as applied' to the individual. 'As applied' constitutional issues must FIRST be raised in DISTRICT COURT (trial court) to have it thrown out. You CANNOT raise it on APPEAL This is the best kept secret in the world of casinos not just in Vegas but everywhere in the country. Thank me later.
April 9th, 2018 at 12:59:17 PM
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They did the last time I was there 4-5 years ago... but um, didn't Circus Circus close down like a year or two ago? =PQuote: AcesAndEightsAnyone know if Circus Circus still has the 2-1 blackjack when the lights flash thing?
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
April 9th, 2018 at 1:40:44 PM
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Quote: RomesThey did the last time I was there 4-5 years ago... but um, didn't Circus Circus close down like a year or two ago? =P
The Wikipedia article is all in the present tense and Google Maps says they are still open, but hell if I know. I've never set foot in the casino in my life.
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
April 9th, 2018 at 1:44:01 PM
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Quote: AcesAndEightsAnyone know if Circus Circus still has the 2-1 blackjack when the lights flash thing?
When last I checked, which was a few years ago, it was still going on.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
April 9th, 2018 at 1:54:50 PM
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would you agree that it's true that if you went there, and they didn't know who you are and you bet just $5 when the light is off and $500 or $300 or some amount much greater than $5 when the light is on that they could not reasonably conclude that you were a professional advantage player because anybody with nothing more than a small amount of common sense could figure out that it's better to bet much more when the payoff is 2/1?
the foolish sayings of a rich man often pass for words of wisdom by the fools around him
April 9th, 2018 at 2:47:43 PM
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Quote: lilredroosterwould you agree that it's true that if you went there, and they didn't know who you are and you bet just $5 when the light is off and $500 or $300 or some amount much greater than $5 when the light is on that they could not reasonably conclude that you were a professional advantage player because anybody with nothing more than a small amount of common sense could figure out that it's better to bet much more when the payoff is 2/1?
I would agree with that. I would think that anytime a casino purposely makes any game better for the player , it’s to be expected that the player will bet more. Works out even better if the count happens to be favorable at the same time the red light goes on. The red light promo acts as a built in excuse
April 9th, 2018 at 5:39:11 PM
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I've heard stories about APs getting barred for not playing at all except when the light was flashing. Now if you bet min when it wasn't and max when it was, that's *almost* the same thing. I wonder where the line is where they would consider it acceptable.
If I went, I would probably bet table min, and then maybe $50-$100 when the light came on. While counting of course, so I would be varying my bets regardless.
For my next Vegas trip which might be this summer, I will probably only have a bankroll of about $5000, so my old counting ramp ($25-$300ish) will be too high and I'll be priced out of the nice S17 games at Mlife properties. Will have to play crappy games for peanuts, will probably run some coupons and also just try to have fun and not lose the whole wad. It will be hard for me since I got used to green chip action at all games (craps included), but I'll need to control myself.
If I went, I would probably bet table min, and then maybe $50-$100 when the light came on. While counting of course, so I would be varying my bets regardless.
For my next Vegas trip which might be this summer, I will probably only have a bankroll of about $5000, so my old counting ramp ($25-$300ish) will be too high and I'll be priced out of the nice S17 games at Mlife properties. Will have to play crappy games for peanuts, will probably run some coupons and also just try to have fun and not lose the whole wad. It will be hard for me since I got used to green chip action at all games (craps included), but I'll need to control myself.
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
April 9th, 2018 at 8:38:43 PM
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I know a dealer at Circus and I asked him if it would set off red flags if someone were betting the minimum when the red light was off and then jumped to maximum bets when it was on. He said something to the effect of "Morale here is so bad that I don't think anyone would give a s*#t."
I then did a little math and figured that, for me at least, it was a small hourly expected profit to do just that, but with huge variance. Not my kind of opportunity, but for an AP who is very well financed and has nothing better to do, might be worth it.
I then did a little math and figured that, for me at least, it was a small hourly expected profit to do just that, but with huge variance. Not my kind of opportunity, but for an AP who is very well financed and has nothing better to do, might be worth it.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
April 10th, 2018 at 5:39:58 AM
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Quote: WizardI know a dealer at Circus and I asked him if it would set off red flags if someone were betting the minimum when the red light was off and then jumped to maximum bets when it was on. He said something to the effect of "Morale here is so bad that I don't think anyone would give a s*#t."
I then did a little math and figured that, for me at least, it was a small hourly expected profit to do just that, but with huge variance. Not my kind of opportunity, but for an AP who is very well financed and has nothing better to do, might be worth it.
Thanks Wiz for reaching out to your contact, I really appreciate it.
I certainly won't be capitalized for table max on my next trip, maybe $50 or $100. And I won't be counting on this to be some huge money making play, but I'm going to try to explore some new casinos and I've never been to CC, so might as well try for that 2% player edge when I can get it.
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
April 10th, 2018 at 5:54:51 AM
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Quote: AcesAndEightsThanks Wiz for reaching out to your contact, I really appreciate it.
You're welcome, but I actually asked him that question years ago.
CC is the butt of many jokes here in Vegas. Definitely a place for tourists on an economy budget. I stayed there many times in my early twenties, but it was not that bad back then.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
April 10th, 2018 at 6:19:14 AM
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Quote: WizardYou're welcome, but I actually asked him that question years ago.
CC is the butt of many jokes here in Vegas. Definitely a place for tourists on an economy budget. I stayed there many times in my early twenties, but it was not that bad back then.
Ahh okay then :). If I actually make it there, I'll report back on conditions.
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
