calwatch
calwatch
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January 17th, 2024 at 7:50:03 PM permalink
A veteran travel hacker and otherwise differently employed person (he does DoorDash and Uber Eats on a subsidized scooter, and maximizes the benefits of being low income) decides to try his hand at advantage play and gives his thoughts. The conclusion is that it's more lucrative to sell a system or teach people than it is to actually do it as a source of income.

https://freequentflyerbook.com/blog/2024/1/17/why-do-card-counters-sleep-in-their-cars

SUCCESSFUL CARD COUNTERS AND TRAVEL HACKERS DON’T LAST LONG
What struck me most while learning about the card counting community and the available resources is that the biggest voices for card counting don’t seem to actually do it very much.

The typical progression is that someone discovers card counting, has a rough introductory period full of endearing anecdotes, then goes on a winning streak of 6-48 months (the length is immaterial). After that, they start Youtube channels, record podcasts, write books, and launch websites to sell card counting content and merchandise.

This is the same progression we see in travel hacking. Someone discovers travel hacking, has a few big scores, gets involved in the community, then they launch a blog, a podcast, a Youtube channel, and an affiliate relationship with the credit card companies.

There are two major reasons for this. First, the money is better, certainly on an hourly basis. Most travel hacking techniques require at least some time and attention to implement on an ongoing basis. Even simple online techniques require you to sit down at your computer and actually click the necessary buttons to trigger your payout each time. Writing a blog post full of credit card affiliate links, on the other hand, creates a kind of passive, semi-permanent money-generating asset as new readers discover the post and click through to your payday.

The second reason is that most people, even skilled, experienced people, don’t seem to enjoy it very much. For a lot of card counters and travel hackers, actually putting their knowledge to work seems like an unfortunate chore at worst or a dead-end job at best. “Running a business” packaging bite-sized tips on Tik Tok while burnishing your reputation as a Respected Elder must seem like bliss by comparison.

WHY DO CARD COUNTERS SLEEP IN THEIR CARS?
One of the questions posed in the original “Freakonomics” book was “Why do drug dealers still live with their mothers?” The answer they arrive at is that despite handling enormous amounts of money, most individual drug dealers make poverty wages, so they live with their mothers, like many people who don’t make any money and are on speaking terms with their parents do.

What you realize listening to professional card counters is that they live in a kind of self-inflicted misery, driven in large part by the fear of “giving away their edge.” This often takes the ironic form of ascetisism. A common boast is that during a gambling trip a player will play for 20 hours straight every day. When they travel in teams, advantage players will bunk up in a single hotel room like a high school marching band to save on rooms. One player described sleeping in his (heated and air -conditioned) Tesla over the summer as he drove from casino to casino counting cards.

Importantly, this behavior is not driven by anything inherent to the principles of blackjack advantage play. In blackjack (if the dealer is using a “shoe,” or box of cards that are shuffled only once and then dealt out in order), each shoe is a new randomly ordered sample of cards, so the player’s result from the current shoe cannot have any effect on the probability of winning the next one. That means the player’s advantage, if any, is the same regardless of the number of shoes played. In other words, the player can stop at any time without affecting in any way the expected value of the hours they do play.

And yet, people who claim they have an expected advantage over the house of $100 per hour are willing to work for 20 hours in a row before falling asleep in their cars, all in order to save a few hundred dollars on a hotel room.
ChumpChange
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January 17th, 2024 at 8:59:22 PM permalink
From what I've seen on YouTube, card counters get busted in very short order so they don't plan on staying where they are playing. They could try, but when they get escorted out of the casino suddenly their comped room might be gone too. It's probably another reason they'll take cash over casino checks at the cage. By the time they need to cash-out at over $10K they need to show ID, and these fools think they can get by playing unrated. Most cages require ID at much lower cash-outs like $1K to $3K. So these entitled card counters pretend they left their ID elsewhere and they don't have it on them, then they get booted for not having ID while on the casino floor.
Dieter
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January 17th, 2024 at 10:05:22 PM permalink
There is a small chance that the people drawn to card counting are also uncomfortable in hotel rooms. I know I usually get better quality sleep laid back in a car seat with a rolled up sweatshirt for a pillow than in whatever high thread count faux-luxury weave sheets they want to rent me for the night.

If your brain is like mine, a hotel is just an expensive way to get a shower and medium quality breakfast.
May the cards fall in your favor.
Slotenthusiast
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January 17th, 2024 at 10:39:30 PM permalink
Quote: calwatch

A veteran travel hacker and otherwise differently employed person (he does DoorDash and Uber Eats on a subsidized scooter, and maximizes the benefits of being low income) decides to try his hand at advantage play and gives his thoughts. The conclusion is that it's more lucrative to sell a system or teach people than it is to actually do it as a source of income.

/blog/2024/1/17/why-do-card-counters-sleep-in-their-cars

SUCCESSFUL CARD COUNTERS AND TRAVEL HACKERS DON’T LAST LONG
What struck me most while learning about the card counting community and the available resources is that the biggest voices for card counting don’t seem to actually do it very much.

The typical progression is that someone discovers card counting, has a rough introductory period full of endearing anecdotes, then goes on a winning streak of 6-48 months (the length is immaterial). After that, they start Youtube channels, record podcasts, write books, and launch websites to sell card counting content and merchandise.

This is the same progression we see in travel hacking. Someone discovers travel hacking, has a few big scores, gets involved in the community, then they launch a blog, a podcast, a Youtube channel, and an affiliate relationship with the credit card companies.

There are two major reasons for this. First, the money is better, certainly on an hourly basis. Most travel hacking techniques require at least some time and attention to implement on an ongoing basis. Even simple online techniques require you to sit down at your computer and actually click the necessary buttons to trigger your payout each time. Writing a blog post full of credit card affiliate links, on the other hand, creates a kind of passive, semi-permanent money-generating asset as new readers discover the post and click through to your payday.

The second reason is that most people, even skilled, experienced people, don’t seem to enjoy it very much. For a lot of card counters and travel hackers, actually putting their knowledge to work seems like an unfortunate chore at worst or a dead-end job at best. “Running a business” packaging bite-sized tips on Tik Tok while burnishing your reputation as a Respected Elder must seem like bliss by comparison.

WHY DO CARD COUNTERS SLEEP IN THEIR CARS?
One of the questions posed in the original “Freakonomics” book was “Why do drug dealers still live with their mothers?” The answer they arrive at is that despite handling enormous amounts of money, most individual drug dealers make poverty wages, so they live with their mothers, like many people who don’t make any money and are on speaking terms with their parents do.

What you realize listening to professional card counters is that they live in a kind of self-inflicted misery, driven in large part by the fear of “giving away their edge.” This often takes the ironic form of ascetisism. A common boast is that during a gambling trip a player will play for 20 hours straight every day. When they travel in teams, advantage players will bunk up in a single hotel room like a high school marching band to save on rooms. One player described sleeping in his (heated and air -conditioned) Tesla over the summer as he drove from casino to casino counting cards.

Importantly, this behavior is not driven by anything inherent to the principles of blackjack advantage play. In blackjack (if the dealer is using a “shoe,” or box of cards that are shuffled only once and then dealt out in order), each shoe is a new randomly ordered sample of cards, so the player’s result from the current shoe cannot have any effect on the probability of winning the next one. That means the player’s advantage, if any, is the same regardless of the number of shoes played. In other words, the player can stop at any time without affecting in any way the expected value of the hours they do play.

And yet, people who claim they have an expected advantage over the house of $100 per hour are willing to work for 20 hours in a row before falling asleep in their cars, all in order to save a few hundred dollars on a hotel room.

link to original post



Who was this guy shadowing? Homeless, hobo, drug addicted AP’s?

Also noting that 48 months of being profitable is nothing to sneeze at. That’s 4 years. I’m guessing the person who wrote this article just sucks at being an AP, and is jealous of those who do it successfully.

PS: None of the people I know who do AP successfully live in their cars.
darkoz
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January 18th, 2024 at 1:20:50 AM permalink
Quote: Dieter

There is a small chance that the people drawn to card counting are also uncomfortable in hotel rooms. I know I usually get better quality sleep laid back in a car seat with a rolled up sweatshirt for a pillow than in whatever high thread count faux-luxury weave sheets they want to rent me for the night.

If your brain is like mine, a hotel is just an expensive way to get a shower and medium quality breakfast.
link to original post



I think the bloggers line "the biggest VOICES" for card counting..." are the ones who don't do it may be accurate and correct but the blogger doesn't understand AP well

Card counting requires stealth. Any AP that gets one kicked out of a casino will cause the REALLY SUCCESSFUL to keep a secretive low profile.

The ones who may even be good at counting but lousy at camouflage will make a living selling videos(I assume they really are good at physical counting to sell lessons).

Hence the blogger is only SEEING what card counters WANT him and ergo casinos to see.

Any hugely successful card counter IS NOT announcing who they are and what they look like by teaching classes.

The blogger is unable to get the nuance of the situation. I suppose the same is true of security professionals. Those who are successful CIA operatives DON'T allow people to even know they exist. Those who aren't successful CIA agents teach online courses about security and stealth operations.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
Dieter
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January 18th, 2024 at 1:41:38 AM permalink
(snip)
Quote: darkoz


Any hugely successful card counter IS NOT announcing who they are and what they look like by teaching classes.

The blogger is unable to get the nuance of the situation. I suppose the same is true of security professionals. Those who are successful CIA operatives DON'T allow people to even know they exist. Those who aren't successful CIA agents teach online courses about security and stealth operations.
link to original post



Very true.
Being "Ramen Profitable" may not be Huge Success, but it is success. Barely.

The "retirees" seem to be the ones getting paid to teach.
May the cards fall in your favor.
OnceDear
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SOOPOO
January 18th, 2024 at 1:45:05 AM permalink
Quote: calwatch

A veteran travel hacker and otherwise differently employed person (he does DoorDash and Uber Eats on a subsidized scooter, and maximizes the benefits of being low income) decides to try his hand at advantage play and gives his thoughts. The conclusion is that it's more lucrative to sell a system or teach people than it is to actually do it as a source of income.

https://freequentflyerbook.com/blog/2024/1/17/why-do-card-counters-sleep-in-their-cars

SUCCESSFUL CARD COUNTERS AND TRAVEL HACKERS DON’T LAST LONG
What struck me most while learning about the card counting community and the available resources is that the biggest voices for card counting don’t seem to actually do it very much.

The typical progression is that someone discovers card counting, has a rough introductory period full of endearing anecdotes, then goes on a winning streak of 6-48 months (the length is immaterial). After that, they start Youtube channels, record podcasts, write books, and launch websites to sell card counting content and merchandise.
link to original post



What a shoddy, ill researched article. It's obvious that the author has done zero research on card counting. He has not realised that a card counter NEEDS a big bankroll with which to apply his tiny percentage and implies that any hobo can come to do it. And what's that cr4p about "typical progression is that someone discovers card counting, has a rough introductory period full of endearing anecdotes, then goes on a winning streak". Real card counting does not yield results like that, or if they do, the counter recognises it as variance.

At one point, the author switches from 'card counter' to 'Advantage player'. He could just as easily have switched to 'system player'
Psalm 25:16 Turn to me and be gracious to me, for I am lonely and afflicted. Proverbs 18:2 A fool finds no satisfaction in trying to understand, for he would rather express his own opinion.
SOOPOO
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January 18th, 2024 at 5:06:59 AM permalink
Quote: Dieter

There is a small chance that the people drawn to card counting are also uncomfortable in hotel rooms. I know I usually get better quality sleep laid back in a car seat with a rolled up sweatshirt for a pillow than in whatever high thread count faux-luxury weave sheets they want to rent me for the night.

If your brain is like mine, a hotel is just an expensive way to get a shower and medium quality breakfast.
link to original post



My brain is not like yours! Any bed in any hotel room is better than sleeping in any car! (Queue someone showing a picture of some multi-million dollar ‘car’). I don’t think there are many who would turn down the comped room to sleep in their car.

As far as the article, I basically agree with what OnceDear posted. I don’t see Axel or Mental or Wizard or PokerGrinder sleeping in a car on their AP forays. (Maybe PokerGrinder?)
Mosca
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January 18th, 2024 at 6:07:10 AM permalink
Good grief.

The writer is saying that the set of people who sleep in their cars includes the set of people who count cards at blackjack professionally.

There are billions of people. There is an incredibly wide range of personalities. Within that range there are people who will count cards and sleep in their cars, and do it for the reasons outlined in the article. But is that overlap substantial enough to assert it in an article?

I think not. Because there are billions of people. There is an incredibly wide range of personalities. There are people who have money and live frugally, there are people who have no money and live expansively, there are people who are solitary who count cards, there are people who are gregarious who count cards, there are people who join teams to count cards and people who go it alone to count cards. My dad went to the casino once a week with a goal to bring home $100. More often than not, he did. (My dad was a Gold Life Master contract bridge player. He didn’t sleep in his car; he lived with my wife and I, off Social Security and pension and mandatory withdrawals. In exchange he paid our utility bills.)

Point being, by selectively choosing your data you could write an article that says whatever you want it to. You could write about card counters teaming up and breaking the bank (oh wait, someone did that). You could make a movie about the true story of someone embezzling from work and almost bankrupting a casino playing baccarat, then losing everything… oh, wait. Or about hustling slots for comps… oh, geez, someone did that, too.

Nobody asked me, but: what I think is easy is work to you. What you think is easy is work to me. HOW YOU GO ABOUT IT, and why you do it, depends on who you are, not what it is that you do. If you were the type of person who would sleep in your car while counting/APing, you would still be that type of person otherwise; not meaning that you would sleep in your car, but you might live alone in a small apartment with no pictures on the wall. (You have to move around to count, you have to stay in one place to work at a job.) Had I counted cards successfully, or had I gone into sales like I did, I would pretty much be at the same place in my life no matter what, because this is what is comfortable for me. You choose what you do toward that end, and if living in your car suits you during your pursuit, then that what you do. But to extrapolate it to ALL counters, or even a substantial subset of card counters? That is ridiculous on its face.
A falling knife has no handle.
billryan
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January 18th, 2024 at 6:15:24 AM permalink
Card counters today face lousy games, lousy working conditions and play with an incredibly small edge. They also live with the knowledge their career can end tomorrow. There are much easier ways to exploit casinos and many plays that give you a much higher edge.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
ChumpChange
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January 18th, 2024 at 6:23:41 AM permalink
My latest home game play money sessions over the last 3 days went like this. I had a $10K session, lost it, bought in for another $10K, won back the $10K I lost plus another $10K so I'm $10K ahead after 1,200 hands. Next day, I lost $10K twice over 1,200 hands. Third day, I won $100K in about 200 hands. So my bankroll has gone from $180K to $280K, and I might consider $20K buy-ins next time as long as I'm over $200K.
Hunterhill
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January 18th, 2024 at 6:28:10 AM permalink
I’ve known a few players who slept in their cars but it was when they were just getting started and had very small bankrolls. I’ve only had to sleep in a car maybe 5-6 times and that was because all the hotels were sold out.
The mountain is tall but grass grows on top of the mountain.
ChumpChange
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January 18th, 2024 at 7:24:46 AM permalink
Hotels cost maybe $200-$400 a night in the touristy areas. If your bankroll is tight, you're not gonna want to spring for that.
billryan
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January 18th, 2024 at 7:34:31 AM permalink
Sleeping in shelters and eating at food kitchens will save you at least ten grand a year. Do it for five or six years and you'll have a nice nest egg saved up.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
darkoz
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January 18th, 2024 at 7:44:57 AM permalink
Personally I choose to sleep on the bus!
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
100xOdds
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January 18th, 2024 at 8:05:21 AM permalink
Quote: calwatch

A veteran travel hacker and otherwise differently employed person (he does DoorDash and Uber Eats on a subsidized scooter,
link to original post

How do you get a subsidized scooter?
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
darkoz
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January 18th, 2024 at 8:08:46 AM permalink
Quote: 100xOdds

Quote: calwatch

A veteran travel hacker and otherwise differently employed person (he does DoorDash and Uber Eats on a subsidized scooter,
link to original post

How do you get a subsidized scooter?
link to original post



Medical reasons?
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
aceside
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January 18th, 2024 at 8:11:36 AM permalink
Deleted
aceside
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January 18th, 2024 at 8:13:48 AM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

Quote: Dieter

There is a small chance that the people drawn to card counting are also uncomfortable in hotel rooms. I know I usually get better quality sleep laid back in a car seat with a rolled up sweatshirt for a pillow than in whatever high thread count faux-luxury weave sheets they want to rent me for the night.

If your brain is like mine, a hotel is just an expensive way to get a shower and medium quality breakfast.
link to original post



My brain is not like yours! Any bed in any hotel room is better than sleeping in any car! (Queue someone showing a picture of some multi-million dollar ‘car’). I don’t think there are many who would turn down the comped room to sleep in their car.

As far as the article, I basically agree with what OnceDear posted. I don’t see Axel or Mental or Wizard or PokerGrinder sleeping in a car on their AP forays. (Maybe PokerGrinder?)
link to original post


Does Wizard count cards at Blackjack? Let himself say about this. I need to read more to know other professionals here.
100xOdds
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January 18th, 2024 at 8:14:13 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz

Personally I choose to sleep on the bus!
link to original post

But not everyday :)
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
100xOdds
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January 18th, 2024 at 8:16:03 AM permalink
Quote: aceside

Does Wizard count cards at Blackjack? Let himself say about this. I need to read more to know other professionals here.
link to original post

Yes, i remember him saying he does and at least once got backed off.
but allowed to play other games in that casino
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
calwatch
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January 18th, 2024 at 8:16:28 AM permalink
Quote: 100xOdds

Quote: calwatch

A veteran travel hacker and otherwise differently employed person (he does DoorDash and Uber Eats on a subsidized scooter,
link to original post

How do you get a subsidized scooter?
link to original post



https://saverocity.com/independentlyfinanced/free-and-discounted-micromobility-services/
aceside
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January 18th, 2024 at 8:28:53 AM permalink
Quote: 100xOdds

Quote: aceside

Does Wizard count cards at Blackjack? Let himself say about this. I need to read more to know other professionals here.
link to original post

Yes, i remember him saying he does and at least once got backed off.
but allowed to play other games in that casino
link to original post


He counted Pai Gow.
Dieter
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January 18th, 2024 at 8:51:36 AM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

Quote: Dieter

There is a small chance that the people drawn to card counting are also uncomfortable in hotel rooms. I know I usually get better quality sleep laid back in a car seat with a rolled up sweatshirt for a pillow than in whatever high thread count faux-luxury weave sheets they want to rent me for the night.

If your brain is like mine, a hotel is just an expensive way to get a shower and medium quality breakfast.
link to original post



My brain is not like yours! Any bed in any hotel room is better than sleeping in any car! (Queue someone showing a picture of some multi-million dollar ‘car’). I don’t think there are many who would turn down the comped room to sleep in their car.

As far as the article, I basically agree with what OnceDear posted. I don’t see Axel or Mental or Wizard or PokerGrinder sleeping in a car on their AP forays. (Maybe PokerGrinder?)
link to original post



Yeah, I don't know what's wrong with me either.
I can sleep on the floor no problem, but hotel beds... I dunno.
I think the last time I was solo in a hotel, I ended up just laying the recliner all the way back.
It was darned hard to sleep in the hospital bed, too. After a few days, exhaustion kicked in, and I could get an hour of shuteye here and there.
It doesn't bother me; I've got a solution, and it usually works out.
May the cards fall in your favor.
billryan
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January 18th, 2024 at 8:56:55 AM permalink
For the longest time, I couldn't sleep the first night in a hotel room. The second night was no problem, but i'd toss and turn the first night in every hotel.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
AxelWolf
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January 18th, 2024 at 10:22:22 AM permalink
Quote: Mosca

Good grief.

The writer is saying that the set of people who sleep in their cars includes the set of people who count cards at blackjack professionally.

There are billions of people. There is an incredibly wide range of personalities. Within that range there are people who will count cards and sleep in their cars, and do it for the reasons outlined in the article. But is that overlap substantial enough to assert it in an article?

I think not. Because there are billions of people. There is an incredibly wide range of personalities. There are people who have money and live frugally, there are people who have no money and live expansively, there are people who are solitary who count cards, there are people who are gregarious who count cards, there are people who join teams to count cards and people who go it alone to count cards. My dad went to the casino once a week with a goal to bring home $100. More often than not, he did. (My dad was a Gold Life Master contract bridge player. He didn’t sleep in his car; he lived with my wife and I, off Social Security and pension and mandatory withdrawals. In exchange he paid our utility bills.)

Point being, by selectively choosing your data you could write an article that says whatever you want it to. You could write about card counters teaming up and breaking the bank (oh wait, someone did that). You could make a movie about the true story of someone embezzling from work and almost bankrupting a casino playing baccarat, then losing everything… oh, wait. Or about hustling slots for comps… oh, geez, someone did that, too.

Nobody asked me, but: what I think is easy is work to you. What you think is easy is work to me. HOW YOU GO ABOUT IT, and why you do it, depends on who you are, not what it is that you do. If you were the type of person who would sleep in your car while counting/APing, you would still be that type of person otherwise; not meaning that you would sleep in your car, but you might live alone in a small apartment with no pictures on the wall. (You have to move around to count, you have to stay in one place to work at a job.) Had I counted cards successfully, or had I gone into sales like I did, I would pretty much be at the same place in my life no matter what, because this is what is comfortable for me. You choose what you do toward that end, and if living in your car suits you during your pursuit, then that what you do. But to extrapolate it to ALL counters, or even a substantial subset of card counters? That is ridiculous on its face.
link to original post

Well said.

For some reason, people like to pigeonhole Advantage Players.

I have known many different types of people and personalities with all kinds of different backgrounds who are Advantage Players, it's kinda of crazy when I think about it.

I have known Doctors, lawyers, and even a judge who put in many hours of advantage play. I have known underage Advantage Players and 70-year-old grandmothers.
There are bat-S&%t crazy advantage players, and ones that are very meek.

Obviously, Advantage Play is more attractive to certain types of people, and it is male-dominated.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
OnceDear
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January 18th, 2024 at 11:42:52 AM permalink
Quote: ChumpChange

My latest home game play money sessions over the last 3 days went like this. I had a $10K session, lost it, bought in for another $10K, won back the $10K I lost plus another $10K so I'm $10K ahead after 1,200 hands. Next day, I lost $10K twice over 1,200 hands. Third day, I won $100K in about 200 hands. So my bankroll has gone from $180K to $280K, and I might consider $20K buy-ins next time as long as I'm over $200K.
link to original post



Off topic !?!
Psalm 25:16 Turn to me and be gracious to me, for I am lonely and afflicted. Proverbs 18:2 A fool finds no satisfaction in trying to understand, for he would rather express his own opinion.
ChumpChange
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January 18th, 2024 at 12:30:08 PM permalink
If playing at a full table at 50 hands an hour, 1,200 hands would be 24 hours of play; at 6 hours a day it'd be 4 days of play, times two it'd be 8 days of play just for the first two sessions, and getting pretty much nowhere with no hope of getting anywhere. Day 9 paid off.

I'd have to go far out of town (3 hour drive) to find a $5,000 table limit so I'd have to check into a hotel. If I space out my visits maybe I can get hotel comps via mailer. Make the first visit near the end of one month, get the mailer the next month or the month after, then return for subsequent trips with my hotel offers at the casino. I have no idea what action would prompt a casino to offer rooms to players. But playing at a $300 minimum level for 4 hours should do something.
Last edited by: ChumpChange on Jan 18, 2024
gordonm888
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gordonm888
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Dieter
January 18th, 2024 at 7:40:05 PM permalink
How do you get a professional poker player off of your porch?

Pay for the pizza.
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
Sandybestdog
Sandybestdog
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January 19th, 2024 at 1:31:05 AM permalink
I've driven a plug in hybrid electric car for a few years. I mostly got it because I like it but I also got it because I thought I could sleep for a few hours in it on an overnight trip or something. The car can be on and heating/cooling without running the engine. I tried it once and didn't like it at all. The car uses a lot of energy sitting there and then auto turns off after an hour or so. I've slept in my car a few times when I was making a long overnight trip. It is very uncomfortable. I could hardly sleep. A couple years ago I went to New Orleans for about a 12 hour trip and the hotel I booked wasn't open when I got there. So I had an early flight and just slept in the car for a few hours. It got so cold. I was freezing. Without good sleep you feel awful for the rest of the day. If you leave the car on you have to worry about carbon monoxide. Also depending on where you park, you're at risk of being noticed and robbed or attacked. If you're in a parking lot/garage they may tell you to leave.

A couple years ago I paid for a hotel that started with a 1 for the first time cause it was convenient and only for one night. You can usually get a room in most areas for $70. I've never gotten a room that was dirty or otherwise not acceptable. Obviously paying that for a week or month can add up and not be doable for some people. For one night I find it worth it.
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