Covid vaccine poll
Poll
 | 11 votes (15.94%) | ||
| | 45 votes (65.21%) | ||
| | 13 votes (18.84%) |
69 members have voted
Smokers are less likely to get covid. However once they do get it, it's more deadly.Quote: SOOPOOAnd charge smokers more. And charge the obese more. And charge alcoholics more. And charge motorcyclists more. And....
I don't know if any of that's actually true but that's what I read. I personally don't know any smokers that have had Covid.
Sucker 😀Quote: VegasriderJust received my 2nd dose today.
Quote: rxwineElsewhere there is a small discussion of raising prices, when you can, even if the shortage is due to a disaster and people are more desperate.
Now that I think about it, when vaccines are finally widely available, I'd be for doubling the cost of people who need healthcare for covid infections who can't prove they are medically prevented from getting the vaccine and didn't get one.
A great way to start recouping the cost of the pandemic.
Sounds like a mean spirited and vindictive plan that only bitter people would be for.
Would you similarly be for charging gay males more for HIV related costs?
Quote: AZDuffmanSounds like a mean spirited and vindictive plan that only bitter people would be for.
Would you similarly be for charging gay males more for HIV related costs?
Apparently you never looked at HIV costs!
I do find it disturbing that you equate homosexuality with a conscious choice like choosing to start smoking.
Do you feel you chose to be heterosexual?
Quote: darkozApparently you never looked at HIV costs!
I do find it disturbing that you equate homosexuality with a conscious choice like choosing to start smoking.
Do you feel you chose to be heterosexual?
Unprotected sex is a choice. With many partners is a choice. Same as smoking.
My position is we are all born heterosexual.
I find it disturbing people want to punish me for my choice about my body not to get the shot.
If you want to charge me more because I smoke, then if I get hit by a bus tomorrow my estate should get a rebate, less, I suppose, the cost of the rescue that takes me to the morgue,.
I had read (not verified - just my recollection) that dealing with smoking-related issues is less costly in the long term. The smoker is less likely to have dementia or any other illness that requires long-term care. Lung cancer is a pretty quick way to die, compared to kidney failure. Advances in medicine prolong life, but the flip side is that those advances and the care that you need since you're still here are more expensive.
Where do you draw the line? You guys who spend all day in front of your computers filling up these threads with useless replies instead of getting outside and going for a walk - shouldn't you be charged more for health care? Let's base the cost of health insurance on "Number of Posts."
Average life expectancy must have dropped significantly in the period 1943-1944, but how about 1930-1960?
A lot of people died from COVID, but some of them would have died anyway, and I believe that "COVID-related" or "death by COVID" are overused terms.
My point all along has been that there simply has not been enough time to conduct scientifically valid studies to state reliably much of anything about this virus. It's only from being able to look back - enough time having passed - for there to be a dependable view of what has, and is still happening.
Quote: fantom
My point all along has been that there simply has not been enough time to conduct scientifically valid studies to state reliably much of anything about this virus. It's only from being able to look back - enough time having passed - for there to be a dependable view of what has, and is still happening.
Well this is easy. You are flat out WRONG! I can RELIABLY state that because of the virus more people have died than if the virus never came into existence. We can certainly argue about the number. We can argue about efficacy of social distancing, mask wearing, vaccines. But it is SIMPLE to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that people have died because of being infected with the virus.
Quote: AZDuffmanUnprotected sex is a choice. With many partners is a choice. .
You do realize heterosexuals do that too and can also catch AIDS. It's not a "gay" disease
Quote: fantomThe whole point of insurance is to spread specific costs on an individual basis over a larger group. Your chemo, regardless of what caused it - your conscious act, genetic predisposition or random chance - is reflected in the overall premiums equally paid over all of the rate payers.
If you want to charge me more because I smoke, then if I get hit by a bus tomorrow my estate should get a rebate, less, I suppose, the cost of the rescue that takes me to the morgue,.
I had read (not verified - just my recollection) that dealing with smoking-related issues is less costly in the long term. The smoker is less likely to have dementia or any other illness that requires long-term care. Lung cancer is a pretty quick way to die, compared to kidney failure. Advances in medicine prolong life, but the flip side is that those advances and the care that you need since you're still here are more expensive.
Where do you draw the line? You guys who spend all day in front of your computers filling up these threads with useless replies instead of getting outside and going for a walk - shouldn't you be charged more for health care? Let's base the cost of health insurance on "Number of Posts."
Great news. Cigarette taxes you pay already account for your extra burden to society. (Of course you could be getting tax less cigs). But in general, this is the kind of idea that Duffman says makes me mean and vindictive.
Quote: darkozYou do realize heterosexuals do that too and can also catch AIDS. It's not a "gay" disease
Correct. But you are aware that the likelihood of a gay male getting AIDS is a large multiple of the odds of a straight male? Data from 2018 showed 86% of new cases amongst males were of ADMITTEDLY gay males. So if you figure a few percent of the ‘straight’ males were not.... and if you figure 95% of males are straight, then you are more than 100-1 more likely to get it if you are a gay male than a straight male. Change my assumptions and maybe you get it down to 80 times as likely.
So it is a ‘mostly’ gay disease. Or ‘predominantly’ gay disease.
Quote: SOOPOOCorrect. But you are aware that the likelihood of a gay male getting AIDS is a large multiple of the odds of a straight male? Data from 2018 showed 86% of new cases amongst males were of ADMITTEDLY gay males. So if you figure a few percent of the ‘straight’ males were not.... and if you figure 95% of males are straight, then you are more than 100-1 more likely to get it if you are a gay male than a straight male. Change my assumptions and maybe you get it down to 80 times as likely.
So it is a ‘mostly’ gay disease. Or ‘predominantly’ gay disease.
Evidently, the women who get it don't count.
Quote: SOOPOOCorrect. But you are aware that the likelihood of a gay male getting AIDS is a large multiple of the odds of a straight male? Data from 2018 showed 86% of new cases amongst males were of ADMITTEDLY gay males. So if you figure a few percent of the ‘straight’ males were not.... and if you figure 95% of males are straight, then you are more than 100-1 more likely to get it if you are a gay male than a straight male. Change my assumptions and maybe you get it down to 80 times as likely.
So it is a ‘mostly’ gay disease. Or ‘predominantly’ gay disease.
It's not a "gay" disease.
It's a disease that is predominantly in the gay community.
Otherwise you might as well say Covid is a senior citizen disease
And I am not so certain that there are only 5% of men who are homosexual
receptive penile-vaginal intercourse: 0.08%Quote: billryanEvidently, the women who get it don't count.
insertive penile-vaginal intercourse: 0.04%
Quote: AxelWolfreceptive penile-vaginal intercourse: 0.08%
insertive penile-vaginal intercourse: 0.04%
Seriously?
Quote: AZDuffmanUnprotected sex is a choice. With many partners is a choice. Same as smoking.
My position is we are all born heterosexual.
Throwing the phrase "my position is..." doesn't give you impunity from making such a dumb, ignorant statement. (attacking the statement not the poster)
Quote: AZDuffman
I find it disturbing people want to punish me for my choice about my body not to get the shot.
The problem is that YOUR decision doesn't just effect just YOU. I find it disturbing, even selfish, that you wouldn't get the vaccination.
Quote: kewljThe problem is that YOUR decision doesn't just effect just YOU.
If I were making the same mistake repeatedly I wouldn’t mind someone’s helping me out of it, so I hope you won’t object if I correct you.
You’ve now twice used the word effect when you should have used affect.
Affect is generally a verb, as in something affects something else, or something affects someone.
Effect is generally a noun, such as in the vaccine’s effects or the effect the vaccine has on the virus.
It gets a little complicated, in that effect may be a verb (transitive verb), such as in to effect change, as in, bring it about, incur.
As well, affect may be a noun, but generally only in psychological terms, such as an affect disorder.
Come to think of it, English as a whole may be a difficult language when compared to some foreign languages where words are all spelled the way they sound and there aren’t so many inconsistencies and exceptions.
Quote: kewljThrowing the phrase "my position is..." doesn't give you impunity from making such a dumb, ignorant statement. (attacking the statement not the poster)]
This is my position. You are free to have your own.
Quote:The problem is that YOUR decision doesn't just effect just YOU. I find it disturbing, even selfish, that you wouldn't get the vaccination.
If you have the vaccine you are safe so no need to find what I do with my body disturbing. Lots of people have no intention of getting it. I have been a room of doctors who expressed reservations. Things that are rushed into production do not have a great record no matter what it is. With a 99.5%+ survival rate I do not want to take the chance.
Quote: AZDuffmanThis is my position. You are free to have your own.
It is my position that the earth is flat. That doesn't make it so. That would be just goofy alternative reality nonsense and that is what you are doing.
Quote: AZDuffman
If you have the vaccine you are safe so no need to find what I do with my body disturbing.
It would be great if this were true, but unfortunately, this is NOT how it works. We can eradicate the virus by achieving herd immunity, at which point the virus will have no place to spread and will die out. BUT, this has to be done quickly because virus mutate way from unfavorable conditions. THAT is what viruses do, they are constantly changing. So immunity to the point of reaching herd immunity naturally, people recovering and developing antibodies is way to slow a process. The virus will continually mutate and change enabling it to thrive and grow stronger.
To reach this herd immunity in a short period of time, before the virus is able to mutate around it, requires a vaccine and the majority of people getting the vaccine. If people like you choose not to get the vaccine, we will not achieve this heard immunity and the virus will mutate away from this vaccine, making it useless. That is already happening. For the best understanding of this happing right now...look to Peru.
Everything I just said, isn't speculation. We have seen this time and time again. If you don't eradicate the virus it mutates and we are left dealing with it for decades.
Now this virus is deadlier than most, and spreads easier than most, a very dangerous combination. You are using a .5% death rate, which is fair enough. But that was for the first wave. If we fail to eradicate it right now and the window may have already closed or be quickly closing, future versions of mutated and stronger virus, may be 2%, then 5%, etc. You eradicate it now or you enable it to grow stronger. A stalemate is a losing proposition.
And if this plays out as stated there will come a point, where the people like you, who "chose" not to get vaccinated, which enabled the virus to grow stronger and deadlier, can no longer be tolerated. Those people (you) will have to be eliminated for the rest of us to survive. I mean, that is a long way off, but I would prefer we not get to that point. We have the capability to eradicate this virus right now, still in its infancy. But only if we all do what is necessary.
What if.....this is.....THE VIRUS, that scientists have warned about that can evolve mutate and strengthen to where we can no longer stop it. When it is killing 30%, 40%, 50%, on the way to 100%, we can all look back and say, we could have stopped it, but instead "chose" to take our chances.
Quote: ChumpChange2024: The life expectancy in the USA has dropped to 45 years old.
"A study published Thursday found life expectancy in the United States dropped to its lowest level in 15 years, and even lower for Black Americans and Latinos, during the first half of the coronavirus pandemic.
Data through June 2020 shows life expectancy at birth for the total U.S. population fell from 2019 by a year to 77.8 years, the lowest since 2006, according to researchers at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s National Center for Health Statistics. https://news.yahoo.com/life-expectancy-us-lowest-15-050011267.html
Quote: kewljIt is my position that the earth is flat. That doesn't make it so. That would be just goofy alternative reality nonsense and that is what you are doing.
Except science says the earth is not flat. That is where the difference is.
Quote:It would be great if this were true, but unfortunately, this is NOT how it works. We can eradicate the virus by achieving herd immunity, at which point the virus will have no place to spread and will die out. BUT, this has to be done quickly because virus mutate way from unfavorable conditions. THAT is what viruses do, they are constantly changing. So immunity to the point of reaching herd immunity naturally, people recovering and developing antibodies is way to slow a process. The virus will continually mutate and change enabling it to thrive and grow stronger.
To reach this herd immunity in a short period of time, before the virus is able to mutate around it, requires a vaccine and the majority of people getting the vaccine. If people like you choose not to get the vaccine, we will not achieve this heard immunity and the virus will mutate away from this vaccine, making it useless. That is already happening. For the best understanding of this happing right now...look to Peru.
So it seems you are saying it does not give protection? Yet another reason I am not taking a chance on it.
Quote: AZDuffman
So it seems you are saying it does not give protection? Yet another reason I am not taking a chance on it.
Of course the vaccine gives protection...for this moment in time and against the virus as it currently is.
But unless we are able to eradicate the virus by EVERYONE doing so, the virus will mutate away making this protection only temporary and useless against the mutated version in the near future.
That is what viruses are and the way they work.
Very good explanative post SooPoo. I thought most transmissions these days came from sharing needles? After reading this post, I googled it and it appears only about 1400/ 38,000 [2018] of new cases come by way of sharing needles. The vast majority as you say, are caused by unprotected gay male sex.Quote: SOOPOOCorrect. But you are aware that the likelihood of a gay male getting AIDS is a large multiple of the odds of a straight male? Data from 2018 showed 86% of new cases amongst males were of ADMITTEDLY gay males. So if you figure a few percent of the ‘straight’ males were not.... and if you figure 95% of males are straight, then you are more than 100-1 more likely to get it if you are a gay male than a straight male. Change my assumptions and maybe you get it down to 80 times as likely.
So it is a ‘mostly’ gay disease. Or ‘predominantly’ gay disease.
https://www.cdc.gov/hiv/statistics/overview/index.html
Quote: billryanEvidently, the women who get it don't count.
They count but around 1/5 of cases are female, 4/5 male. So it is mostly, or predominantly a male disease, and mostly, or predominantly, a gay male disease. If you do not share needles and are not a gay male, your risk of contracting AIDS is extraordinarily low. And easily preventable.
Quote: SOOPOOThey count but around 1/5 of cases are female, 4/5 male. So it is mostly, or predominantly a male disease, and mostly, or predominantly, a gay male disease. If you do not share needles and are not a gay male, your risk of contracting AIDS is extraordinarily low. And easily preventable.
SOOPOO, can I ask what is the point of your 'aids is a day disease only' point and what does it have to do with covid which doesn't discriminate?
Quote: kewljOf course the vaccine gives protection...for this moment in time and against the virus as it currently is.
But unless we are able to eradicate the virus by EVERYONE doing so, the virus will mutate away making this protection only temporary and useless against the mutated version in the near future.
That is what viruses are and the way they work.
Then do your part and get the shot. I will pass. I do not buy it so will not be taking part.
Quote: kewljSOOPOO, can I ask what is the point of your 'aids is a day disease only' point and what does it have to do with covid which doesn't discriminate?
AZ made the argument that if anti-vaxxers refuse the vaccine and are punished financially for it so should homosexual men who spread HIV.
That led to whether HIV is a "gay" disease or just a disease prevalent in the gay community.
AZ says having unprotected sex is a choice and so gay men spreading HIV should pay
So does AZ feel heterosexuals should pay for Herpes treatment and syphilis treatment etc? For being promiscuous
A promiscuous tax?
Quote: kewljSOOPOO, can I ask what is the point of your 'aids is a day disease only' point and what does it have to do with covid which doesn't discriminate?
LOlL! I can’t remember the original point! But it is possible I was responding to someone implying AIDS is not a ‘gay’ disease, while it ‘mostly’ is. It was also possible I was responding to a insurance cost sharing type question. COVID does discriminate (sort of). Certainly according to your job. Certainly according to your behavior. Certainly according to your ability to get the vaccine. Certainly according to your age, general health, weight...
Not relevant, but I was in Med School when AIDS was actually referred to as ‘Gay man’s disease’.... I was in Brooklyn and saw many die from AIDS.
Edit.... I see there was a disagreement between darkoz and AZ.... I just added facts....
Quote: SOOPOO
Not relevant, but I was in Med School when AIDS was actually referred to as ‘Gay man’s disease’.... I was in Brooklyn and saw many die from AIDS.
I've seen bits and pieces of the movie. And I remember the 1980s. If you do not remember the 1980s you really cannot get how it was a "gay disease" at the time and at the same time how they tried to scare straight people to death saying it was going to go beyond the gay community "in a few years" and everybody was at risk.
It never came close to what they predicted.
Quote: darkoz
AZ says having unprotected sex is a choice and so gay men spreading HIV should pay
So does AZ feel heterosexuals should pay for Herpes treatment and syphilis treatment etc? For being promiscuous
A promiscuous tax?
No. AZD said that if you are saying I should pay for not getting the vax would you say the same about gay males and HIV.
You do not call for this. Thus your "behaviors" argument is very weak.
So, get the vax and wear your mask, leave home only when needed. Let the rest of us live our lives. I do not want any part of the "new normal."
Quote: AZDuffmanI've seen bits and pieces of the movie. And I remember the 1980s. If you do not remember the 1980s you really cannot get how it was a "gay disease" at the time and at the same time how they tried to scare straight people to death saying it was going to go beyond the gay community "in a few years" and everybody was at risk.
It never came close to what they predicted.
Well if you got jabbed by a syringe full of infected blood, you could have fun trying to convince people you’re not gay because you would likely have the “gay” disease.
(so SOOPOO doesn’t jump on this, I purposely didn’t say needle stick alone as the risk is low from a dirty needle)
So it is being argued that aids is a gay disease. Who is at risk, the guy putting his penis in a mans ass or the man having a penis put in his ass? And does this kind of sexual behavior not occur in the straight community? Not to stereo-type, but black guys love anal sex with so called "fat-assed black girls". Are the black dudes and black girls who engage not just as at risk?
And the bigger point....what if aids was just a gay disease, which I don't buy. Is the position, "I am not gay, it doesn't effect me" (hope I am using the right effect/affect lol)
If that is your position might I remind you of the Martin NieMoller poem...."when they came for the Jews, I didn't speak out because I am not Jewish....".
We are all in this together folks. :/
Quote: AZDuffmanI've seen bits and pieces of the movie. And I remember the 1980s. If you do not remember the 1980s you really cannot get how it was a "gay disease" at the time and at the same time how they tried to scare straight people to death saying it was going to go beyond the gay community "in a few years" and everybody was at risk.
It never came close to what they predicted.
Apparently you don't remember the eighties too well
It was also called the Haitian disease when they had a huge outbreak that affected all sexual proclivities
And Ryan White at 9 years old you feel had a gay disease?
Quote: kewljDisclaimer: I hope the mods will allow me just a little latitude here to make my point.
So it is being argued that aids is a gay disease. Who is at risk, the guy putting his penis in a mans ass or the man having a penis put in his ass? And does this kind of sexual behavior not occur in the straight community? Not to stereo-type, but black guys love anal sex with so called "fat-assed black girls". Are the black dudes and black girls who engage not just as at risk?
And the bigger point....what if aids was just a gay disease, which I don't buy. Is the position, "I am not gay, it doesn't effect me" (hope I am using the right effect/affect lol)
If that is your position might I remind you of the Martin NieMoller poem...."when they came for the Jews, I didn't speak out because I am not Jewish....".
We are all in this together folks. :/
Who said people with AIDS should not get care? If I remember correctly, way down thread, it was just used an example of a disease that is spread disproportionally as a result of a changeable behavior, like smoking, or obesity, or (my example) motorcycle riding. And the discussion was about whether these people should pay more for insurance. I believe it started with anti vaxxers who would refuse a COVID-19 vaccine.... should they pay more, and if there were limited resources to treat people, should they go to the back of the list.
And sadly, kewlj, I can't get the picture out of my head now.... "black guy having anal sex with fat assed black girl...."
Quote: rxwineWell if you got jabbed by a syringe full of infected blood, you could have fun trying to convince people you’re not gay because you would likely have the “gay” disease.
(so SOOPOO doesn’t jump on this, I purposely didn’t say needle stick alone as the risk is low from a dirty needle)
I knew a nurse who contracted AIDS from a 'needle stick'. Some of the needles we use look more like straws with a point. She was accidentally stuck by a colleague.
Non smokers get lung cancer.
Thin active people get heart attacks.
But am I recommending people smoke and get fat and sedentary? You get the point.
While you people are focused on the US victims of this disease, doesn't it effect the hetrosexual populations of Africa in greater numbers.
Quote: kewljDisclaimer: I hope the mods will allow me just a little latitude here to make my point.
So it is being argued that aids is a gay disease. Who is at risk, the guy putting his penis in a mans ass or the man having a penis put in his ass? And does this kind of sexual behavior not occur in the straight community? Not to stereo-type, but black guys love anal sex with so called "fat-assed black girls". Are the black dudes and black girls who engage not just as at risk?
The catcher is the one at risk.
Quote: AZDuffmanThe catcher is the one at risk.
Although I find at least 50% of everything you say to be void of any real fact or reality, I simply have zero experience in this area and will defer to your "expertise".
Quote: kewljAlthough I find at least 50% of everything you say to be void of any real fact or reality, I simply have zero experience in this area and will defer to your "expertise".
You do not need to be a medical genius for this one. You just need to understand the way it is transmitted.
One might say the same of COVID.Quote: AZDuffmanYou do not need to be a medical genius for this one. You just need to understand the way it is transmitted.
Quote: unJonOne might say the same of COVID.
As covid is pretty much just a bad version of the flu you could say that. What is your point there?
Quote: AZDuffmanAs covid is pretty much just a bad version of the flu you could say that. What is your point there?
As death is just a bad version of a good nights sleep.
Quote: billryanAs death is just a bad version of a good nights sleep.
I am sure counting on it being a good version of a good nights sleep. I am an optimist. Just my luck I will still need to go to the bathroom three times a night.
The California variant!
https://www.yahoo.com/news/californias-coronavirus-strain-looks-increasingly-130055544.html
