beachbumbabs
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beachbumbabs
Joined: May 21, 2013
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SOOPOO
December 15th, 2018 at 6:00:23 AM permalink
Quote: ams288

Hasnít the Supreme Court upheld the constitutionality of the ACA twice now?

Gotta love those activist Texas judges!



Yeah, they have. I don't guess this decision will stand.

Nobody has a choice on whether to contribute to FICA/Medicare, either employee or employer. Nor a choice on whether to pay federal income tax. I don't see this being significantly different, and those are two strong precedents.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
Rigondeaux
Rigondeaux
Joined: Aug 18, 2014
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December 15th, 2018 at 6:09:27 AM permalink
Quote: RS

The government's job shouldn't be to provide or force health care/insurance to its citizens. It's not something that requires government intervention, so government should stay the **** out of it.

Plus, look at places like Europe and Canada....do we REALLY want to follow their lead? Lolol that was rhetorical.



Everyone I've known from another country thinks our system is insane. They have a point in that we pay twice what they do and get half as much care in return.

Would be interesting to hear from the few non-American posters if they'd want to switch to healthcare being sold by corps.
MaxPen
MaxPen
Joined: Feb 4, 2015
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December 15th, 2018 at 6:33:45 AM permalink
Quote: billryan

Does Max pay for his own health care or does he get it through his employer?



I used to get it thru my employer as part of my compensation package Since resigning to pursue AP full time, I have been COBRA'ing. There is a back story to the COBRA before people say that's not possible. The ACC is a joke.
Here's real life numbers for a 50 year old non smoker.

Employer group plan with $1500 deductible max out of pocket $483.00 month.

Obviously COBRA same.

Same equivalent plan ACA without tax credits for low income. $7000 deductible max out of pocket $562.00 month.

Same plan with poverty level income. $0 deductible max out of pocket.
, $63.00 month

6 years ago when I sold my business and moved to Vegas I was paying $280.00 a month for a PPO not an HMO with $2000 max out of pocket.

Basically unless you are low income the ACA let's you pay twice as much as you should have to and if you need to use it you can pay for it again..Guess someone has to pay for all the freeloading irresponsible people and/or cheats.

We will soon be like a lot of European countries where there citizens dodge and cheat obligations to their government as much as possible.
TomG
TomG
Joined: Sep 26, 2010
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December 15th, 2018 at 6:36:23 AM permalink
Quote: Rigondeaux


I don't really mind forcing people to save for retirement because the alternatives are 1) millions of old people who didn't save dying in the streets. 2) Others have to pay for their retirements.



So it was never really about how wrong it is for the government to figure out a way to take our money, and entirely about what the money was being spent on
TomG
TomG
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December 15th, 2018 at 6:41:10 AM permalink
Quote: MaxPen

Easy to like something when you are on the receiving end of teet getting it for free. Explains a lot actually.



I never said I liked it. I would much prefer free market health care. I just canít understand why Obamacare is so much different than any other government tax as so many people try to insist
OnceDear
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OnceDear
Joined: Jun 1, 2014
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December 15th, 2018 at 6:41:25 AM permalink
Quote: Rigondeaux

Everyone I've known from another country thinks our system is insane. They have a point in that we pay twice what they do and get half as much care in return.

Would be interesting to hear from the few non-American posters if they'd want to switch to healthcare being sold by corps.

Well, this Brit would not swap our NHS (or indeed our generally socialist welfare system) for the US one.
To be clear, we Brits get all *necessary healthcare at no cost, except for the National Health insurance contribution (a tax on income)
*Necessary includes basic dental treatment, except those with income will normally pay up to a fixed amount of a few hundred pounds. Nobody here has to worry about how they are going to pay hospital fees if they contract an illness or suffer an injury or need expensive drugs for life. From age 60 ( and for those on means tested benefits), all prescription drugs are at no charge at the pharmacy.

We also have the option of paying to reduce our waiting time for treatment where there is a waiting list or where we just want to get better treatment. Even private health care costs are really very low compared about what I read about for the US. E.g. a friend had private surgery on a spine problem and it cost less than £5,000 in total.

While we are in Europe, we have reciprocal arrangements such that our medical costs are covered throughout Europe.

Our system does often creak under the pressure, but no-one I know begrudges the NI cost and no-one I know would switch to the US model.

Other welfare costs such as unemployment benefits are far more means tested than they used to be, but we do pretty well fighting extreme poverty and homelessness. Of course, we could do better.
Beware. The earth is NOT flat. Hit and run is not a winning strategy: Pressing into trends IS not a winning strategy: Progressives are not a winning strategy: Don't Buy It! .Don't even take it for free.
OnceDear
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OnceDear
Joined: Jun 1, 2014
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December 15th, 2018 at 6:54:56 AM permalink
Quote: MaxPen

We will soon be like a lot of European countries where there citizens dodge and cheat obligations to their government as much as possible.


It's funny you should say that. As a European at the moment, I see an awful lot of tax avoidance and cheating in some EU countries. Italy, Spain and France are particulary bad for grey economy tax dodging. But we have VAT on consumption and high tax on Petrol and Diesel, and that goes a long way to making tax unavoidable.

The VAT system encourages some small traders to go 'legit' because they get to offset some tax in exchange for effectively running the system. Tax cheats find it harder and harder to spend their CASH as we are developing 'Proceeds of Crime', benefit fraud and anti money laundering legislation. It's pretty effective in squishing freeloaders and cheats. There will always be poor people who are prepared to live in significant poverty rather than working, but that's not such a popular life choice here. A price we generally accept.

I personally had a lot of fun trying to persuade a UK online casino that I was not money laundering when my total wagering went above £2k!!!

More and more, AML laws make spending 'Cash in hand' untaxed income tricky. Try paying cash for a new car in the UK and you'd probably have to show where your funds came from. Certainly so if buying property.
Beware. The earth is NOT flat. Hit and run is not a winning strategy: Pressing into trends IS not a winning strategy: Progressives are not a winning strategy: Don't Buy It! .Don't even take it for free.
DRich
DRich
Joined: Jul 6, 2012
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December 15th, 2018 at 6:55:59 AM permalink
OnceDear, do you know what the health contribution percentage is based on income?

I have what is known as an HMO where I have a $3000 annual deductible and then I am responsible for 20% of the cost of medical procedures. I pay about 10% of my income for that insurance.

I recently had gallbladder surgery that cost about $45,000. my cost ended up being about $11,000.
Order from chaos
RonC
RonC
Joined: Jan 18, 2010
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December 15th, 2018 at 6:58:45 AM permalink
Quote: ams288

Hasnít the Supreme Court upheld the constitutionality of the ACA twice now?

Gotta love those activist Texas judges!



"When the Supreme Court upheld the mandate as constitutional in 2012, it was based on Congressís taxing power. Congress, the court said, could legally impose a tax penalty on people who do not have health insurance.

But in the new case, the 20 plaintiff states, led by Texas, argued that with the penalty zeroed out, the individual mandate had become unconstitutional ó and that the rest of the law could not be severed from it."

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/14/health/obamacare-unconstitutional-texas-judge.html

Yes, it was previously ruled constitutional. The removal of the penalty changed things. This will be appealed, of course, and it may be overturned either on the taxing issue or on severability of that portion from the rest of the law. This is a new ruling based on the law as it was changed. It will go all the way to Johnny and The Supremes. Meanwhile, the law seems to be staying in place through that process.
FinsRule
FinsRule
Joined: Dec 23, 2009
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December 15th, 2018 at 7:09:36 AM permalink
Obamacare barely affects most Americans. Itís more popular than not.

Yet, the Republicans keep trying to destroy it.

They had 2 years to think of something better (which really shouldnít be that hard) and they came up with absolutely nothing.

So, we will have to wait until Dems get all 3 branches (could be a long time for that) to get something passed.

Come to think of it, when was the last time popular legislation was passed under republican leadership?

Americans with Disabilities Act?

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