SHOOTING at Mandalay festival
Quote: denstarrMurren, the CEO of MGM, parent company of Mandalay sold 80% of his stock just prior to the shooting in spite of a buyback program in effect and a positive report on the stock. Soros shorted 42 million dollars worth of MGM stock as well, prior to the shooting. Coincidence?
Absolutely nothing to see here. Please move along and be a good citizen.
Yes, Campos was investigating an "open door alarm".
"Jesus Campos, Vegas security guard shot before rampage, appears to have vanished"
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-jesus-campos-vegas-20171016-story.html
I imagine there could be lots of reasons.
- He is shy.
- He doesn't want media attention to put his life in turmoil.
- Perhaps his initial statements to police immediately after the incident were confused or unclear.
- Etc
Quote: denstarrMurren, the CEO of MGM, parent company of Mandalay sold 80% of his stock just prior to the shooting in spite of a buyback program in effect and a positive report on the stock. Soros shorted 42 million dollars worth of MGM stock as well, prior to the shooting. Coincidence?
There's also a long time "before" the shooting? Was it a few days before or several months before?
Longest lines I remember seeing for a clothing giveaway to locals.
Quote: MaxPenAbsolutely nothing to see here. Please move along and be a good citizen.
Yes, Campos was investigating an "open door alarm".
Again, any member is entitled to their opinion and yet, first post back from a 4 day suspension, you make it personal.
This forum really needs to add a 'report' button where one can report abuse anonymously so admin could check the post and make a decision based on their criteria.
This would aid the limited admins to speed up some admin duties.
To have to try and contact admin via PM and other things is way too cumbersome.
Quote: sammydvQuote: MaxPenAbsolutely nothing to see here. Please move along and be a good citizen.
Yes, Campos was investigating an "open door alarm".
Again, any member is entitled to their opinion and yet, first post back from a 4 day suspension, you make it personal.
This forum really needs to add a 'report' button where one can report abuse anonymously so admin could check the post and make a decision based on their criteria.
This would aid the limited admins to speed up some admin duties.
To have to try and contact admin via PM and other things is way too cumbersome.
The struggle is real.
Was the above an insult?
Quote: sammydvQuote: MaxPenAbsolutely nothing to see here. Please move along and be a good citizen.
Yes, Campos was investigating an "open door alarm".
Again, any member is entitled to their opinion and yet, first post back from a 4 day suspension, you make it personal.
This forum really needs to add a 'report' button where one can report abuse anonymously so admin could check the post and make a decision based on their criteria.
This would aid the limited admins to speed up some admin duties.
To have to try and contact admin via PM and other things is way too cumbersome.
Some say I'm the reason we no longer have the "Flag" or "Report" buttons below other members' posts. I'm not saying I'm not the reason though, either. As the ancient Hawaiians used to say, "The apple doesn't fall far from the pea pod."
Security Guard and Maintenance Engineer surface on Ellen DeGeneres show for first and only public discussion of the event.
While on the 31st floor he received a radio message regarding an Open Door Alarm. He used the stairs and found the door jammed, summoned a maintenance engineer. He gained access to 32nd floor using an alternate route, felt impact, sought cover, rolled up pants and saw blood thus concluding he had been shot. Used cell phone to call supervisor to avoid tying up radio frequency which would be needed for response to situation. Female exited a different room he yelled at her to get back inside. He yelled at maintenance man to Take Cover. Maintenance man felt bullets whizzing past him and realized it was gunfire not jackhammer since no work crew would be in the area that late.
No six minute interval at all.
Firing into crowd appears to have started immediately after guard shot.
DeGeneres did not inquire as to why if correct room was known, there was so much police inquiry into location of shooter or why multiple shooters were assumed.
Thanks FleaStiff for the heads-up.Quote: FleaStiffSecurity Guard and Maintenance Engineer surface on Ellen DeGeneres show for first and only public discussion of the event.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/las-vegas-security-guard-jesus-campos-public-account/story?id=50551253
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/security-guard-not-missing-reports-dissapearance-article-1.3570276
The Mandalay Bay Resort and Casino security guard hailed for being the first to confront Las Vegas shooter Stephen Paddock will give his first public account of the attack on Wednesday's "The Ellen DeGeneres Show."
The show released an eight-minute clip of the interview on Tuesday night.
The 59-year-old comedian notes that Campos and Schuck turned down a payout for the sit-down. The talk show, instead, handed tickets to an Indianapolis Colts game to Schuck, season tickets to the Oakland Raiders for Campos and a $25,000 donation to a multi-million fund for survivors and families of the slain victims.
Quote: RSThere's also a long time "before" the shooting? Was it a few days before or several months before?
I can’t really find any sources citing this other than fringe conspiracy blogs. George Soros is a favorite whipping boy among alt-right conspiracy theorists. The prevailing theory among those people is that he is the puppet master behind tragedies like this to use them as a false flag to push a gun control agenda, or I guess short MGM stock in this case.
Given that he’s a hugely successful hedge fund manager, I wouldn’t be surprised if him or his fund owned/shorted MGM at some point in time.
How long until an Al Gore connection is sprung on us?
Why did LE not use the elevator instead of the stairs?
Quote: MrVI guess I'm confused.
Why did LE not use the elevator instead of the stairs?
The sheriff said something about this in the first briefing. I don't recall an exact quote, but it has something to do with SOP. Between the elevator being electricity dependent, and a momentary death trap that announces its arrival on a floor, they don't do it.
Now, why they don't take it to several floors above or below, then use the stairs, I don't know. Wondered at the time why they'd want to arrive winded, when the stairwell could also be a death trap with the shooter above, but I'm not SWAT.
They try to sift thru available information and determine the floor the fire is on then they will take an elevator, using a bypass key, to a floor that is several floors BELOW the fire. They then use the stairs because when that elevator door opens the cab will have pushed a lot of air up that shaftway and there can be a flashover.
In an active shooter incident you generally do not want to arrive AT that floor trapped in a box like a sitting duck, you take an elevator to several floors below and proceed with caution. Yes the body armor can be heavy as are the battering ram and any portable shields but nothing is worse than being in a small enclosed area and having the shooter know the doors are about to open.
Its the same reasoning that a fleeing person inside a skyscraper uses. If he doesn't know he will make it all the way down in safety, he will often run UP the stairs since it buys him time to fade away as everyone is chasing him down the stairs or trying to intercept him somewhere. Its a "don't be where they expect you be" ploy.
Quote: RigondeauxI don't see how that could be construed as an insult, let alone a personal one.
Was the above an insult?
Quote:"Absolutely nothing to see here. Please move along and be a good citizen."
To purposely add a needless comment aimed at a member is intended as an insult no manner how 'harmless'. This is not a subject of this thread, the Vegas Shooter is the thread and I won't continue and allow myself to be part of a another hijacked thread. There really isn't any question of the intent of the comments.
GL
Quote: FleaStiffFiring into crowd appears to have started immediately after guard shot.
As far as rushing the plan of the shooter, unless he was waiting for something that was occurring the next day, Jason Aldean was the last act of the night. I doubt if his set would have lasted longer than 50 minutes.
Don't know about MB, but many hotel staircases have one way doors so you can't use them to go from 32 to 28, for example. Once in the stairwell you need go several floors or more before you can enter a hallway. If the gunmen were trying to escape down the stairwell, they'd have encountered police.
Quote: beachbumbabsThe sheriff said something about this in the first briefing. I don't recall an exact quote, but it has something to do with SOP. Between the elevator being electricity dependent, and a momentary death trap that announces its arrival on a floor, they don't do it.
Now, why they don't take it to several floors above or below, then use the stairs, I don't know. Wondered at the time why they'd want to arrive winded, when the stairwell could also be a death trap with the shooter above, but I'm not SWAT.
I'm pretty sure the shooter didn't expect to survive his attack on innocent people. I think he was going to do what he intended until killed in any way. Suicide by cop?
Thing is he chose the cowards way out at some point. No one will know why it worked out that way. He saw the force in the hall and didn't want to be taken?
What always, always makes me sick is, why do people have to inflict suffering and death on others only to kill themselves right after? Why couldn't he have just shot himself first. Or jumped from the room? Why? Why do these multiple killers have to see such death and damage as their last act? Why does a spouse shoot their mate and children then shoot themselves?
It would have been a little blurb in a Vegas newspaper about a semi known high roller shooting himself or jumping. But we get a sick individual inflicting his sickness on almost 600 innocent unknown people and broadcast around the world.
What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. There's 58 innocent deceased people who don't have a choice.
The sad part is, he won't be the last in our country.
Actually the recipient, the Open Society Foundations, is nothing like what people think of as conventional charities--food pantries, hospitals, the Red Cross etc. It is not much more than a bunch of highly partisan operations.Quote: billryanSoros just gave 18 billion dollars to charity. Obviously, he feels guilt over his part in the Vegas shootings, right?
Quote: gamerfreakGeorge Soros is a favorite whipping boy among alt-right conspiracy theorists.
Yeah, poor George. They're always picking on him. So unfair.
Quote: bobbartopYeah, poor George. They're always picking on him. So unfair.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Just calling it how I see it. He’s the left wing analog to the Koch Brothers.
Quote: gamerfreak¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Just calling it how I see it. He’s the left wing analog to the Koch Brothers.
Perhaps you missed the 60 Minutes interview where he describes the joys of growing up with the Nazis and confiscating property from condemned Jews. Ah, good times.
Quote: bobbartopPerhaps you missed the 60 Minutes interview where he describes the joys of growing up with the Nazis and confiscating property from condemned Jews. Ah, good times.
Not forgetting anything. Not sure why you think I’m a huge George Soros fan because I don’t think he orchestrated a terrorist attack. But I imagine being a 14yo Jew in Nazi occupied Hungary was a confusing time.
Quote:Kroft: “My understanding is that you went … went out, in fact, and helped in the confiscation of property from the Jews.”
Soros: “Yes, that’s right. Yes.”
Kroft: “I mean, that’s — that sounds like an experience that would send lots of people to the psychiatric couch for many, many years. Was it difficult?”
Soros: “Not, not at all. Not at all. Maybe as a child you don’t … you don’t see the connection. But it was — it created no — no problem at all.”
Kroft: “No feeling of guilt?”
Soros: “No.”
Kroft: “For example, that, ‘I’m Jewish, and here I am, watching these people go. I could just as easily be these, I should be there.’ None of that?”
Soros: “Well, of course, … I could be on the other side or I could be the one from whom the thing is being taken away. But there was no sense that I shouldn’t be there, because that was — well, actually, in a funny way, it’s just like in the markets — that if I weren’t there — of course, I wasn’t doing it, but somebody else would — would — would be taking it away anyhow. And it was the — whether I was there or not, I was only a spectator, the property was being taken away. So the — I had no role in taking away that property. So I had no sense of guilt.“
Quote: denstarr
Murren, the CEO of MGM, parent company of Mandalay sold 80% of his stock just prior to the shooting in spite of a buyback program in effect and a positive report on the stock. Soros shorted 42 million dollars worth of MGM stock as well, prior to the shooting. Coincidence?
Quote: MaxPenAbsolutely nothing to see here. Please move along and be a good citizen.
Yes, Campos was investigating an "open door alarm".
I'm sorry that sarcasm is over the head of some on this forum. I will express my opinion however I want and have no problem doing another 4 days in the penalty box for absolutely nothing. I do believe that anyone can see that I am making a sarcastic comment that is in agreeance with denstarr.
I could only imagine being a mod on this site and having to read so many sniveling nonsensensical complaints.
Quote: sammydv
Again, any member is entitled to their opinion and yet, first post back from a 4 day suspension, you make it personal.
This forum really needs to add a 'report' button where one can report abuse anonymously so admin could check the post and make a decision based on their criteria.
This would aid the limited admins to speed up some admin duties.
To have to try and contact admin via PM and other things is way too cumbersome.
Quote: sammydvQuote:"Absolutely nothing to see here. Please move along and be a good citizen."
To purposely add a needless comment aimed at a member is intended as an insult no manner how 'harmless'. This is not a subject of this thread, the Vegas Shooter is the thread and I won't continue and allow myself to be part of a another hijacked thread. There really isn't any question of the intent of the comments.
GL
#COMPREHENSION 101
Quoting out of context is just plain wrong. Is there someone that I can whine to about that?
One can only deny that second post from the bottom of page is quintessential tee rolling.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/general/29549-shooting-at-mandalay-festival/59/
Many have commented on the placement of various weapons around the room and their state of readiness for maintaining rapid fire for maximum carnage. If the activities in the hotel corridor caused him to spring into action by even ten minutes, they probably saved lives.Quote: rxwineAs far as rushing the plan of the shooter....
I was surprised the Ellen DeGeneres show segment was so brief and so low-key.
Must be a strange phenomenon to feel the air pressure of bullets passing by just where your head was a split second ago.
This tragedy of course has sunk behind other headlines.
I am no longer going to armchair quarterback this event and let the investigation take its course and let policies change. Unless you have experienced the mind of a psychopath or someone with mental illness, you will need to realize that his reality was perfectly logical to him and will appear completely irrational to us unless you understand how his reality worked. And the only person who might be able to understand that is his girlfriend, and I doubt that she would unless she did a pile of research on mental illness. So trying to put together something on the shooter that is logical is just nonsense. There is no logic in this reality for what happened.
I have no comment on gun control measures and neither apparently does the rest of the nation. The Feds did little after Sandy Hook. It appears that the Federal Government is fine with letting states take their actions and let the state/federal/supreme court handle the constitutionality of state / local decisions. Nevada will likely do nothing except increase security measures in hotels. In my opinion that is very sad.
It's easier for us to accept the notion that the carnage was caused by "a crazy man" than to consider the possibility that perhaps he was in his right mind and accomplished exactly what he set out to do.
He could just as easily have been a mean-spirited misanthropic S.O.B. who got tired of playing the game of life and decided to go out in memorable fashion.
I suspect the latter is closer to the truth, and that scares the hell out of me because it greases the skids for other mean-spirited, misanthropic S.O.B.'s to do the same thing.
Christ, what have we become?
Quote: MrVWho's to say Paddock was "mentally ill?"
It's easier for us to accept the notion that the carnage was caused by "a crazy man" than to consider the possibility that perhaps he was in his right mind and accomplished exactly what he set out to do.
He could just as easily have been a mean-spirited misanthropic S.O.B. who got tired of playing the game of life and decided to go out in memorable fashion.
I suspect the latter is closer to the truth, and that scares the hell out of me because it greases the skids for other mean-spirited, misanthropic S.O.B.'s to do the same thing.
Christ, what have we become?
I agree
Mental Illness has not been proven.
If anything, the guy strikes me as very sane from what we know of his life prior to the shooting
Bottom line
Really pissed off people can do incredible amounts of damage in this country
Quote: MaxPenQuote: sammydvQuote:"Absolutely nothing to see here. Please move along and be a good citizen."
To purposely add a needless comment aimed at a member is intended as an insult no manner how 'harmless'. This is not a subject of this thread, the Vegas Shooter is the thread and I won't continue and allow myself to be part of a another hijacked thread. There really isn't any question of the intent of the comments.
GL
#COMPREHENSION 101
Quoting out of context is just plain wrong. Is there someone that I can whine to about that?
One can only deny that second post from the bottom of page is quintessential tee rolling.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/general/29549-shooting-at-mandalay-festival/59/
Perhaps something more along the lines of 8 days would suffice, given the long line of constant personal attacks. There's already too much leeway given select members. Having to come back and rationalize how ones posts were not out of line or outright personal attacks just reinforces that they were indeed beyond sarcastic.
Either way, I'm not playing your game which I've witnessed from day one. I detest using the ignore feature because I like to believe everyone has something to add to the mix and I can learn from them. But it's not my sandbox and fortunately WOV has the ignore feature. Disappointingly, I don't believe I'd be missing anything of value in doing so.
gl.
Quote: MrVWho's to say Paddock was "mentally ill?"
Same thing I was thinking. He seems to represent having all his faculties in all his known transactions.
He certainly wouldn't have convinced me he didn't know right from wrong.
His girlfriend describing him in pain of some sort does give me pause. Perhaps they will find something in the extended autopsy investigation.
Given the right motivation, we expect a person flying a jet to be able to pull a trigger, fire a missile and sink a ship sending a hundred or more people to their death.
So, the possibility of turning someone into a killer without pathology is certainly possible.
But all that doesn't lead to any definitive answer about this -- just possibilities.
Russians successfully tested "mind control'. Well, they are blasting people brains over there in Cuba. Or someone is.
Quote: rxwineSame thing I was thinking. He seems to represent having all his faculties in all his known transactions.
He certainly wouldn't have convinced me he didn't know right from wrong.
His girlfriend describing him in pain of some sort does give me pause. Perhaps they will find something in the extended autopsy investigation.
Given the right motivation, we expect a person flying a jet to be able to pull a trigger, fire a missile and sink a ship sending a hundred or more people to their death.
So, the possibility of turning someone into a killer without pathology is certainly possible.
But all that doesn't lead to any definitive answer about this -- just possibilities.
Military training to fight wars and to kill people you see as the enemy, or to become a policeman and kill has just cause. Many jet fighter captains will go on to fly commercial airliners and you don't see them flying planes full of people into the ground.
There was no such just cause for shooting a thousand rounds into a crowd.
And the more unjust life is viewed the lower the level of motivation is needed.Quote: rxwineNever said motivation needs to be just. It just needs to be sufficient.
He had alcohol problems, he had brought a 'slip and fall' lawsuit which appears to have been groundless, he played video poker at some degree of ability, he studied fire arms, he had a history of some role in real estate transactions albeit a murky one.
A neurological autopsy is being performed because we want to find pathology rather than consider him 'normal'.
He planned and executed a complex operation apparently on his own yet did not realize his anti-swat actions gave the show away too soon. Some incredible bumbling by the cops helped him, poor command and control let him fire longer than he should have been able to. Some coincidences on the ground helped avoid more casualties. So many different cell phone programs just happened to send victims to different hospitals so that inundation was avoided although one nearby hospital on GPS programs had absolutely no trauma facilities at all. Police never called for armored cars or commandeered a large truck as a bullet barrier. Some dumb cop kept saying 'strobe light' when he should have said 'muzzle flashes'. Cops were too focused on multiple shooters and there was much confusion between the Mandalay Bay tower and the Mandalay Bay festival property.
Pathology? "I hate the whole world" or "I blame the whole world" is not necessarily pathological.
We just like to think that it is.
So the wiki is a source of interest, not always substantiated information.
It was inevitable that someone would start a wiki about him.
Since this was portrayed as the area of greatest slaughter I also find it weird that no one has an open circle forming around them. This typically happens when someone is injured in a crowd.
No flashes from the hotel.
Sincere Regards.
Quote: MaxPenHere is a new video from a front row perspective. I find it odd that no one seems to understand even the direction the shots are coming from. Also the number of consecutive rounds in the bursts of fire. I only saw 30 round magazines in the room photos.
Since this was portrayed as the area of greatest slaughter I also find it weird that no one has an open circle forming around them. This typically happens when someone is injured in a crowd.
No flashes from the hotel.
It actually might have been good that the realization of what was going on was slow, because everybody running, shoving, and falling all together would be (like old western cattle stampede only humans)
Quote: rxwineIt actually might have been good that the realization of what was going on was slow, because everybody running, shoving, and falling all together would be (like old western cattle stampede only humans)
I had heard that there were quite a few crushing and trampling injuries among the 500+ injuries. They would still be considered event injuries, I think, right along with gunshots.
https://www.nytimes.com/video/us/100000005473328/las-vegas-shooting-timeline-12-bursts.html
This is an excellent forensic video, correlating about 30 videos to the event and a master time line. It's possible the link.will not work, as it's tied to my subscription, but I think if you paste into Google, it will call it up anyway.
Such events often have seating/standing areas "roped" off with steel fences and other barriers but the smart ones were probably those who spied a corpse and hid under it. There were alof of stories about men sheltering their wives and girlfriends and perhaps there were acts of cowardice that didn't make the news wherein men simply ran. In a town where random is a well studied phenomenon, running may have been a question of zig and zag or it might have been better to make a bee line. It seems to have been spray and pray, so what is running or a non-bulletproof barrier going to do? Crouch in the light or crouch in the dark? If its spray and pray does it make a difference? All those who ran to a dark area and then opened their cell phones lit themselves up.
At Manchester I blamed the musicians for not playing something to suppress a panic. In Vegas there should probably have been clearer announcements from the stage area.
Even first reports of 'dead and injured' failed to clarify GSW versus trampling injuries.
There wasn't much need for swat vehicles but ordinary armored cars were needed as barriers and ambulances.
I believe non-gunshot wounds greatly outnumbered the gunshot victims.
